Comments on: Microsoft hopes users see the (Silver) light

At an event in San Francisco, Microsoft launches the latest version of Silverlight, its would-be rival to Adobe's Flash.

[cvaldes1831]

Silverlight, Flash, Air, whatever, it all needs to get deploy on handheld devices (smartphones, iPod touch, etc.). I'm simply using my computer and its web browser far less these days.

Flash had the advantage of having a headstart when desktop computers didn't have mindshare competition from handheld devices. The world has changed in the past year (since the opening of the App Store).

For widespread adoption, new Internet technologies must factor in handheld devices with their memory, CPU, network, graphics, screen space and battery life constraints.

[jessiethe3rd]

You can see Silverlight streaming a 720p movie at:
http://www.iis.net/media/experiencesmoothstreaming
Pretty wicked.

[dutch_guilder]

This video is smooth, but it is only 480p.

[Random_Walk]

Heh... I find it very interesting.

First, Microsoft tries to kill QuickTime on the web (first by introducing incompatibilities in IE, then by promoting Macromedia and Flash), and now they're trying to kill Flash (Adobe owns it now, and Microsoft can't control them...)

The reason why is simple enough - he(or she) who controls embedded active content controls the web. Unless Microsoft can wrest some control over it (like they had over OEMs all this time), they're going to be screwed in the long run. It also explains a lot as to why they're so eager to have a Linux-native version of Silverlight out there...

[timber2005]

Eh, flash has its uses and its power, but it has become somewhat bloated like Adobe PDF has. IN MY OPINION.
Like how Adobe PDF include 3D rendering and all, but 99.7% of people just need it to show text... a lot of times not even a picture. But its a good thing.

Competetion leads to one thing... innovation. Just like what stir Firefox brought about.
Microsoft bringing a player to the market will get adobe to innovate further. HD streaming w/ quick start, a smaller memory footprint, OS and browser compatability, etc. would be good places to give some work to.

[Random_Walk]

"Competetion leads to one thing... innovation."

Agreed.

OTOH, I suspect that the goal of Microsoft in this case isn't exactly to compete, but to get their foot into tomorrow's door. Nothing wrong with that, so long as they don't violate any anti-trust laws to do it.

[dhavleak]

@ timber 2005

Totally agree about Acrobats bloat. Try using Foxit's PDF reader -- it's pretty cool. Full-featured (not even in the least bit stripped down) and still fast as hell..

[santuccie]

@Random_Walk:

"Nothing wrong with that, so long as they don't violate any anti-trust laws to do it."
>>>>Don't know, but they apparently already have with IE itself. Opera is suing them for abusing their dominant position with the introduction of proprietary Web standards, and for "illegally" bundling Internet Explorer into Windows. This to me sounds absolutely ludicrous, but I guess that's communism.

Microsoft was trying to satisfy this lawsuit by remove IE from European copies of Windows as with WMP, but I guess the EU isn't going for it. They want Windows to display a "ballot screen" upon activation or first connection to the Internet, giving users a choice between IE, Opera, Firefox, Chrome, and Safari. We'll have to wait and see what happens.

[umbrae]

Silverlight is a me-too from Microsoft. Sorry, got enough spyware from Microsoft on my machine, and I am just not willing to put any more. Anyone that uses Silverlight loses my eyeballs.

[celticbrewer]

you're saying adobe and apple don't include a lot of bloatware with their "free" viewers? The best thing I did for my computer was uninstall pdf reader and install foxit instead.

[umbrae]

Flash has its own issues, but it is a mature product.

The PDF viewer is a whole other subject, but there are plenty of non-adobe solutions.

[Mergatroid Mania]

Anyone who would stop frequenting a Website based on what plug-in is running the video in his browser is not the tastiest beer in the truck.

Although I really don't care what runs the video in Websites, my choice will all depend on how seamless it is. If it's another piece of MS buggy garbage, then I won't want to use it (but then, who would?). However, if it works without any hitches, then I could care less if any sites use it. If MS starts being a problem for any reason, these sites can change back to something else. That's the beauty of having so many choices.

[codynews]

a me too eh? I don't know about that. I saw the demo and it looked much better than any flash crap I've seen.

[dhavleak]

@ umbrae

Any PDF viewer other than Acrobat is a me-too product. See how juvenile that sounds?

Any website that uses flash loses my eyeballs. See how juvenile that sounds?

Stop taking your opinions so seriously. Or try building a stronger, more well thought out case next time -- maybe *somebody* will take it seriously.

[lennie22]

your left eyeball can go play marmble with your other eyeball for all I care...the videos I will be uploading will be in silverlight. it would be nice if you don't come to my site because you anti-msft people will just try to kill the experience

[jkohut]

I agree that mobile platforms are a must for Silverlight OR Flash to advance much. Flash is reported to be upcoming on many platforms this fall (hopefully they don't forget systems that are only a year or so old). Silverlight on Nokia and Windows Mobile has been reported for OVER a year, but as far as I know, it still isn't available yet. Flashlite has been around for mobiles for a while, but developers don't seem to know about it or Adobe doesn't show them how to detect and use on platforms with mobile in mind (i.e. Major League Baseball site). Fastest growing platform is now mobile, Silverlight and Flash has better understand that and embrace it (Note to Microsoft, there are OTHER mobile platforms than Windows Mobile) !

[Gonzie]

not touching silverlight with a bargepole! flash is bad enough without having a me too effort made by Microsoft?

[monkeyfun14]

Silverlight is better then Flash...

[kelmon]

While it is normal that he/she talks a lot of old tosh, monkeyfun14 is actually correct on this one - Silverlight is better than Flash, although that's hardly a ringing endorsement. The whole concept behind these plug-ins is flawed and they really should be avoided but if you had to use one or the other then Silverlight is better, particularly if you are running a Mac.

[ausernamenoonehaschosen]

Considering HTML 5 Video is just starting up with a lot of supporters, I don't see how Silverlight will last long. HTML 5 Video streams very effectively, and efficiently, and uses both Ogg Codecs and H.264. The best part is that you don't need any proprietary plugins to use it, and therefore anyone can use it without needing to worry about licenses or royalties. All of the new browsers support it as well, including Chrome, Safari, and Opera, as well as the new IE 8. Why in the world would anyone begin to support another plugin that does basically the same thing as Adobe Flash. I'm not saying Silverlight isn't better than Flash, but I am saying HTML 5 is better, and no one should support another proprietary format that requires yet another plugin.

[erictbar]

I agree. I've seen a lot of examples of what HTML 5 can do from demo-sites such as www.chromeexperiments.com which, by the way, I go to with Safari, not Chrome.

[Trerro]

I fail to see what Silverlight does that Flash doesn't. Flash is pretty much the de facto standard, and as such, is installed on the overwhelming majority of browsers - some even include it by default since it's pretty much inevitable you'll be grabbing it at some point. Most users, on the other hand, have never even HEARD of Silverlight. If they want it to be successful, it needs to do more than have a cool name and a fancy marketing campaign, there needs to be a reason to use it over Flash - enough that animators actually learn the platform, and users don't question the install.

It seems similar to Bing - sure, Bing is a big improvement over the old MSN Search, but it needs to either A. Beat Google in general or B. Be especially good at a particular type of search, making it a great secondary engine for places where Google is weak. It fails to do both, and the massive ad campaign they're running isn't going to change that.

MS needs to learn that on the web, you're not making deals with clueless CEOs that can barely use a computer, you're making them on the development side directly with the developers - who choose to use your platform or not, and with users, who decide if you bring anything new to the technology. Marketing may get people on your site, but if you don't have a reason for them to STAY on the site once you get them there, you don't have any users... and you can't just destroy all of your competitors like MS normally does - the web evolves too fast for that. MS needs to learn actual innovation, or they're going to continue to fall behind.

[celticbrewer]

"you're making them on the development side directly with the developers"

Maybe you answered your own question. How much does silverlight cost developers? Every resource I found was free.

Adobe Flash Pro CS4 on amazon- $600

You say they do pretty much the same thing. If I had to pick between those two technologies right now (not considering html5), which would I choose? Free or $600?

[umbrae]

Correct me if I am wrong, but you need Visual Studio to do MS development. That is just as expensive as Adobe tools. Not to mention there are free open source development tools for Flash too.

[codynews]

IE was the defacto standard too (you could argue it still is)... Didn't stop FF, Opera, and Chrome from coming out with 'me too' browsers.

Cody

[johnny raindrop]

"I fail to see what Silverlight does that Flash doesn't. "....

It keeps Microsoft in control. That is the primary reason it exists.

[jake3373]

@umbrae
"you need Visual Studio to do MS development. That is just as expensive as Adobe tools"
I use Visual Basic 2008 Express, which is free, and it works perfectly for me.

[kelmon]

Well, on a Mac, Silverlight is much more efficient than Flash when it comes to playing video. However, that's simply a testament to how awful the Flash Player is for the Macintosh platform.

[sanjayb]

@codynews

The difference in the browser example was that Firefox and other browsers were and still are better than IE. Silverlight doesn't improve on Flash in anyway.

[Splashes]

As usual, Microsoft shows up to the party at 2:47am, just as things are winding down.

Five years ago, they would've had a chance. Now, all they can hope for is a middlin' share of a doomed market. Fine work, Microsoft. As usual.

[Random_Walk]

Their idea isn't to domainate that market, but to push and enforce a defacto standard in the budding web-based-everything market...

(don't think of where the puck is, but keep an eye on where it's going to be).

[hexjones]

As a Flash designer/dev, I really have no interest in Silverlight. I hope it dies soon.

[EcuadorHomesOnline]

Probably 90% of my browser crashes are due to various Adobe plug-ins. They are all horribly unstable. Silverlight has better video quality without a doubt, but for me it wins because it doesn't crash all the time like Flash does.

[umbrae]

You must use IE. Hate to break it to you but that is the browser not Flash. I use Firefox and the browser almost never crashes.

[shinelikeitdoes]

you think that might have anything to do with how few silverlight sites you are hitting?

[cb3431]

I use IE and Firefox and Flash crashes both. Adobe Reader is already gone from my computers and Flash has one foot in the grave.

[jake3373]

I agree - Flash does crash a lot. I heard Safari 4 has a "sandbox" feature for plugins that won't make the browser crash if a plugin crashes. I haven't tried this yet in Safari, but I hope all browsers eventually adopt this.

[Sausagebiscuit]

x64 browser support yet? Sure it might not be 'needed' but it would be nice. I envision the day of a fully clean 64 bit environment. Not because we need it, just because. I realize it took quite some time to ditch 16bit code (Win 9x line still had 16 bit code) for a fully 32bit environment.

Again, I know there really isn't a reason for most people (I use it for 6GB of ram in a gaming rig) but one day it will be and having x64 support in more software means a quicker adoption rate and hopefully smaller OS installs by not having to have both 32 and 64 versions of software / libraries / etc.

[Nataku4ca]

so, compatition is bad?

i dont know, just alot of the comments seems to suggest that.

Flash was great, yes, and really was the "only" solution that existed for many things. so having a second solution is bad? i dont know, i keep hearing competition is good on other stuff why is it bad here? enlighten me(unless, of course, u decide to say it's MS so it's bad, then dont bother =.=)

[codynews]

Competition against Microsoft is good. Competition against Microsoft against anyone else is bad

(That seems to sum up the feeling of most posters here...)

Cody

[jessiethe3rd]

To sum up the posters here it's Microsoft is just bad in general. Everything Microsoft does is bad. It's products are bad. It's services are bad. Microsoft is just bad - big and bad - too big and too bad.

Therefore, when it does make something actually pretty cool it just gets thrown in the, "it's bad" catagory. Unlike Microsoft, Google is Good. Everything Google does is good. If they make an OS - it's great! If it doesn't exist yet, that's okay too! If it creates an application - it's the best thing since sliced bread. No matter that Google is the satan of privacy - it's still good. We can accept the US Patriot Act we certainly can accept Google! yeah!

Microsoft is so yesterday - they make software... software sucks man! Software is not cool... web applications are the new thing - desktop software sucks! We want all our applications on the web... yeah! We want Google to own all our information and control it and market it and sell it and make it free! Yes, FREE! They can charge big companies to see all our search habits, our health records, and everything else! Woohoo!

[sanjayb]

Competiton isn't bad if it improves on what is currently out there. How does Silverlight improve on Flash?????

[Nataku4ca]

@sanjayb

so you are saying any competition that doesnt destroy the opponent is not a competition?, sorry may be i shouldnt say that, but do remember silver light has improve much in the past 2 years. I've used it and i actually like streaming on silverlight better.

Also flash isnt as great as many of the ppl on here say it is. it isnt bad, it definitely have room for improvement.

[Inconnux]

Siverlight... meh... sure I have it installed, but it just seems to be a copy cat product.

[draystl]

Interesting how M$ is pushing Silverlight on the Mac & Linux, to show how 'platform agnostic' their new program is.

Reminds me of when M$ made IE for Unix & Mac OS.

The, by pure coincidence (yeah, right), when M$ achieved browser market dominance, they dropped support for all platforms but Windows.

[lennie22]

do you drive a car? isn't that a copy cat pruduct? how about your fridge that keeps your food cool and fresh? isn't that a copy cat product too? get your head out the gutter man, open your eyes a little bit.....

[blakestar]

"It was sort of a small mistake that somebody made and we decided to let it go."

Isn't this Microsoft's motto?

[Stormspace]

Silverlight to me is just added bloat to my machine and I avoid sites that use it.

[ReasonableGuy]

Netflix uses Silverlight for its streaming content. Before it switched to Silverlight, I could not use Netflix's streaming movies on my MacBook. For that reason I am happy to have Silverlight available. However, I do fear that Microsoft will pull the product to screw Mac users. (Sure would have been nice to have Microsoft broken up into 2 or 3 separate companies, so it could put out products without worrying about having to protect its Windows.)

Flash is overused. Too many people using it to make websites, which often have small menus that quickly pop up and quickly disappear. Design overcoming utility. I prefer HTML, with some Javascript. Flash is fine for streaming video. But when used by "artsy" web developers it is a source of frustration.

[kelmon]

I think it is going to be interesting to see if Silverlight sees any adoption outside of the US. So far the only web site I have used that makes use of Silverlight is Microsoft's own (shocking, huh?). Everything else that I've heard of using it tends to be a US-centric, or even US-only, web site.