Comments on: Windows 7 testers have long path to upgrade

Moving from the test to final version of the operating system is not as easy as just forking over the money. In some cases, two installations are required.

[bobmarleypeople]

Or, if you're in Europe, a clean installation is required no matter what.

Unless you import/pirate an upgrade copy of course.

[baggyguy1218]

Europeans caused that mess by themselves! EU politicos going after MS for marketing their products? Please!! Maybe they should try that with Apple with Safari or even Ubuntu.

[lennie22]

they would say apple and linux doesn't have that much market share................so I guess it's ok for them to bundle whatever they want.

[tuxxo]

Eu law is simple. MS used their monopoly to push IE and Media player. Who would have used that wmv formats if ms would not have put them on every winxp? If MS would have had their way and pushed their media and internet standards, everyone would have payed to use media players and all web servers would have been with payed MS license.

Say again what browser come bundled with linux that you have to install for the system to work?

[G-Skaf]

"Europeans caused that mess by themselves! EU politicos going after MS for marketing their products? Please!! Maybe they should try that with Apple with Safari or even Ubuntu."
Remember that Microsoft has faced several legal issues in the U.S. as well. It's not just a European thing. When there is a monopoly, state intervention is necessary. The market won't self-regulate, contrary to what we're sometimes made to believe by some market fundamentalists.

Also, as mentioned, neither Apple/Mac OS nor any Linux distribution has a monopoly or even any significant market share (> 20%) in operating systems.
On Linux, you are free to completely uninstall Firefox and use (or don't use) whatever you want. There's no intermingling of browser components with the operating system.

On Mac OS, things seem to be going the Microsoft/IE way. Still, Safari at least respects most web standards, whereas IE is just either holding back the web (because of non-supported features) or forcing website creators to make special IE versions of their pages (because of IE's poor or no implementation of standards).

[edwardhchan]

It won't allow for a DVD check or prior key entry? That's lame...

[Mr. Dee]

It can, but suppose you don't have your DVD, the hard drive check will do just fine.

[Havoc70]

so you have to do a clean install yet you cant do a clean install because it looks for the old version of windows. Sounds like another MS hose job if you ask me

[monkeyfun14]

You can't do a clean install with a upgrade version. Why don't you read properly before you post instead of having your blind MS hate sink you down to the comments section.

[subslug]

well, in past versions of Windows all you needed was a older Windows disc to prove to the installer that you already had a full version, you didn't actually have to install the old version first.

It is a hose job, what good is a clean install if it's just a clean install over an older version?
It's got nothing to do with MS hate, so go easy.

Sounds to me like MS is saying, buy the full version or end up with some half baked install when you're done.

[Lerianis3]

subslug, I agree totally. Frankly, I installed the Windows 7 64-bit version over the 32-bit version thinking "I'm going to lose some data!"..... WRONG! It didn't wipe anything on the drive, save for programs that were installed, and everything in my user directory was moved to a Windows.old directory in the root of the drive.
Not that I hadn't backed up or moved to an external almost everything first, but I was pleasantly surprised.

[viper396]

The upgrade paths are for regular end-users who are still running Windows XP or Vista. People who run test versions of operating systems really have no business complaining about their upgrade paths once the final product is released. You were warned. You were supposed to be testing the OS, not using it in a mission critical manner and expecting it to just keep going once the beta phase is done.

This article is just another sad example of news twisted up by CNET.

[Mr. Dee]

If you are a beta tester, you probably have technical experience with beta testing in general. This means, you should have tools to ensure the safety of your data, such as an External Hard disk which are really cheap now. With build 6801 and Windows 7 beta (build 7000) released in January I dual booted. I also kept a Complete PC Backups of my Windows Vista installation. I still do and recently restored it the other day to upgrade it to Service Pack 2.

If you are sold on the benefits of Windows 7 and many testers I have spoken to are and have already purchased their discounted upgrades, migrating from RC to RTM will be a breeze. Simply use the built in Easy Transfer Utility in 7 RC and create a WET file and restore it on Windows 7 RTM. As for Vista users, if you would like to return to it after testing 7, I would simply backup the User folder, and paste the contents of each folder back into their respective folders on Vista. The same can be done for XP users, although I recommend they move to Windows 7 too.

Windows XP users can probably work around the migration to Windows 7 by borrowing a friends Vista DVD, upgrade to appropriate edition, then upgrade to Windows 7 to save the trouble of having to reinstall your applications and reapply settings.

Windows XP Professional > Windows Vista Business > Windows 7 Professional
Windows XP Home Edition > Windows Vista Home Premium - Windows 7 HP or higher
Windows XP MCE > Windows Vista Home Premium > Windows 7 HP or higher

Users of Windows XP Professional x64 should already knows its a clean install.

[ZetaZeta_]

I would also expect (if you have enough space for an installation of Windows) you can just do a clean install of Windows and your old files would be placed in C:\Windows.old or something like that.

At least for me going from Beta to RC (which so I was told required a "clean install") I didn't even have to back up any data, since I didn't need to format my drive (it installed fine to my Beta partition).

[Mr. Dee]

Better to be safe than sorry. Yes, Windows.old keeps a copy of your data, but anything can happen, so still backup.

[Renegade Knight]

The fact that 7 can't upgrade you from XP which people were sticking with becuase of Vista combined wiht the fact that 7 is the fix to vista is just bad thinking. My 7 beta computer was an old XP laptop that I had set up for specific uses. I had to start over with the 7 beta. That was a wast. Now that 7's Beta is about over I decided to Try out Linux. I'm not out anything for the effort since 7 forces a lot more work just to keep it.

[lennie22]

@ knight:

where did you get that win7 can't upgrade from xp? what are you talking about? hey, if linux works for you, then good for you.

[Jack K1]

This clean install business isn't a surprise. Testers were told well in advance that this would be the case. The fact that it really is the case isn't news. The fact that people want to whine about it also isn't news. Unfortuantely, the fact that CNET is happy to make a big deal out of non-news isn't news, either.

[Lerianis3]

This is news, because it SHOULDN'T BE DONE! The fact is that VERY LITTLE changes from an RC to a RTM version or final consumer version in almost all cases, so it should be pop in the disk, tell it to upgrade.... it upgrades!

[Renegade Knight]

When I first installed the Beta of 7 it forced me to do a clean install instead of upgrading XP. Given that 7 is the replacment for the OS that didn't actually replace XP. The ability to upgrade from XP should have been built in.

[lennie22]

@knight:

it's was a friggin BETA, do you know what the meaning of a beta software is? go look up and understand the meaning. why would they put upgrade mechanism in the beta release?

[arjun_liferox]

i'm replying to lerianis3's comment. If microsoft did allow windows 7 BETA testers to upgrade to the final version of windows 7, how would they check that the testers originally had a paid version of the operating system?

[Random_Walk]

"yum -y upgrade" - or if you prefer - "apt-get upgrade" :)

(sorry, couldn't help chucking that in :) )

Anyrate, when did they get rid of their install media checking?

While it would suck for those who were dumb enough to buy an OEM machine without install/restore media, I do recall an instance where one could install XP even with an ancient (but readable) MS-DOS boot disk, an ancient Win3.1 boot floppy, or any old NT 4.0 disk or CD... all the thing wanted was to see a "valid" MSFT license somewhere.

Ah well - not my prob... g'luck with that, folks...

[tektaktyks]

I say we boycott ms,all the testers ,we should sign a petition,have ms cough up a free copy of w7 for us(as an update,no cd/dvd/box/shipping required),they have to face it,most testers r usually more tech savvy than an average person and its us that ppl around are asking for an advice when it comes to computing,we can simply say "NO" when somebody asks us about the upgrade to w7,we can say "wait a year or 2 and u can get it cheaper or with a mail in rebate"
so what u think? free petitions online?Power to the people?

[lennie22]

you're looking for too much my good friend. I wouldn't even give u a free copy. it was better if u asked for a discount than a free copy because that is more do-able.

[Kwasiowusu]

Most people I know, inlculding me, have dual boot Vista/Win 7 RC1 laptops anyways. So it's a simple mattter to upgrade the Vista portion to Win7, then backup any files one may have on the Win7 RC1, and restore to the new upgraded Win 7, then delete the old Win 7 RC1.

[Vegaman_Dan]

How is this news? It's always been this way for running pre-release versions of an OS. You don't upgrade from a beta / pre-release to a final version using an Upgrade option meant for previous OS versions. Can't do it in OS X, can't do it in Windows- it's the way of pre-releases

Really, Ina... Some basic research would have avoided this gaff.

[Lerianis3]

WRONG! The fact is that on OSX you CAN upgrade from a beta version to a final version.

I've got my simple workaround to this: Pirate Windows 7's full version! I swear, they are going to have to realize that they are just PISSING PEOPLE OFF by doing things like this, and driving people who gave them lots of feedback to piracy.

[ikramerica--2008]

Again, Vegaman Dan posting false information about Apple. What's new?

Go back to replacing MacBook Air screens for $1200...

[Random_Walk]

@Lerianis: Microsoft probably wouldn't care if you pirated Windows 7.

Sure, they make a lot of noise about piracy and whatnot, but consider - where would Microsoft be if Windows 3.1's diskette pile wasn't so flaming easy to make copies of? Why do you think they go out of their way to make sure that students and etc. can get free copies that can be in turn used roughly forever (MSDNAA OS copies are not time-bombed, after all).

No - Microsoft doesn't make its money from the consumer realm anyway. It makes its bank from the corporate/enterprise realm, where individual companies can be (and usually are) expected to pay through the nose in licensing fees (companies are far easier targets to find and sue, the act will carry little sympathy from anyone, and unlike individual households, the BSA can rape a business faster than you can say "burned copy" ).

[Random_Walk]

@Lerianis: Microsoft probably wouldn't care if you pirated Windows 7.

Sure, they make a lot of noise about piracy and whatnot, but consider - where would Microsoft be if Windows 3.1's diskette pile wasn't so flaming easy to make copies of? Why do you think they go out of their way to make sure that students and etc. can get free copies that can be in turn used roughly forever (MSDNAA OS copies are not time-bombed, after all).

No - Microsoft doesn't make its money from the consumer realm anyway. It makes its bank from the corporate/enterprise realm, where individual companies can be (and usually are) expected to pay through the nose in licensing fees (companies are far easier targets to find and sue, the act will carry little sympathy from anyone, and unlike individual households, the BSA can rape a business faster than you can say "burned copy" ).

[DrtyDogg]

@Lerianis3: You could have helped a lot of people out with that knowledge.

http://forums.macnn.com/90/mac-os-x/347434/leopard-beta-installed-unable-install-final/

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=375338

[bsaitz]

i can see the apple commercials now.. microsoft is making it too easy for apple

[Kwasiowusu]

I can see the Microsoft commercial now..Win 7 sells more in just one day(Oct 22nd), than all Apple macs sold in the past 12 months.

[viper396]

@bsaitz, why don't you pay attention and re-read the article. What commercial could Apple possibly do with this?...'that you cannot upgrade from the beta pre-release version of Win7 to the final?" How many end-users is that actually going to affect?

[lennie22]

bsaits, I don't see what you're talking about. so please give an example of a commercial that apple can use against MSFT with this info.

[shellcodes_coder]

Kwasiowusu: Dude that's inevitable. Anyways let that underdog bark :P

[bledsoe812]

Come on Ina! Since Windows 3.11 at least, a Windows upgrade was able to check an install disc as proof that you have previous version of windows. The previous version of Windows wasn't required to actually be installed to install the new OS. Do some fact-checking before writing the article.

[Iria00]

bledsoe812, you should do some checking as well :-) Windows Vista did not have that capability. You had to resort to a double install to get around it. http://bit.ly/iQ7GF

[bledsoe812]

I stand corrected, Ina. I must admit, though, that I switched to all Apple machines instead of upgrading to Vista, so I was unaware.

[jb3d]

I don't think that the clean install path necessarily involves all of the steps of backup, wipe disk, install new system, and then restore data. If it works like Vista did (and I assume it does without having tested it yet) if you ask it to do a clean install it does not delete all your files. Instead it puts the original c:\windows and c:\program files folders into a newly created c:\windows.old folder and retains all the data in the c:\users and other root level folders. So, for a clean install, yes you do have to reinstall all your programs, and no, you don't have to backup and restore your data. I do recommend that you have an image backup on hand anyway, just in case the new system install goes awry and you need to start over.

[maxxell13]

This may be a bit too particular, but in my situation, I have one desktop with 4 physical hard drives. I have one drive for my windows 7 install, and another for my windows vista install (the third does Ubuntu, and the 4th is for media).

For this upgrade situation, when I go to install windows 7 onto its drive, will Windows tell me it cant find a previous install on that harddrive and so I need to go buy the full version? Will I need to install the new Win 7 onto the harddrive that currently has my vista install?

[Kwasiowusu]

" Will I need to install the new Win 7 onto the harddrive that currently has my vista install? "

Yes. Unless you want to buy the full version of Win 7, instead of the upgrade version.

[ivaskaj]

Why would you want to buy an upgrade anyway? Just buy the final release and do a clean install. Get rid of all potential beta bugs. That is the only logical way that I can see to do it. An upgrade is never as good as the real deal.

[Rendrik]

Holy crap, this is the only comment i've agreed with so far.
Scrub it all, and reinstall! My GOD people, it literally takes 15 minutes to install RC1, what is your problem?

[Inconnux]

Couldn't agree more, it is always better to do a clean install on any Microsoft OS.

[lennie22]

inconnux, I think you mean "on any OS"

[Renegade Knight]

@Rendrik

While I agree a clean install is best. If the upgrade works it saves a lot of time and effot that most of us have spent. It's amazing how many programs I install and system tweaks that I make. With a clean install I've got half an hour invested in the new OS. And a heck of a long time after that in everthing else.

[nutzareus]

Are you all idiots and never used Windows Easy Transfer for Windows XP or Vista? Backs up profiles, settings, and files you select! It's not rocket science, Bueller!

[sargess25]

lol, probably because they're just that, Windows users :-)

I think this article is jumping to conclusions without actually reading what microsoft has said about upgrading.

If you have 2 cents you know that running a pre-release OS should not be done on a primary computer.

If you own a netbook, I hope you have figured out how to install software without a DVD drive by now.

[cnation]

Face it MS Sucks anyway !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bigest rip off company.

[shellcodes_coder]

ya that's why Windows 7 will will kill that endangered os--snow leopard

[NKND200]

Good that I will be still using my good and old XP for my Windows stuff, and Snow Leopard for almost 90% of the time now, and don't care about Windows 7. But, if I care, clean installation will be the way, or anyone is using Windows 7 RC as primary operating system? Regards.

[vic.healey]

I too am looking at OSx as an alternative to Windows 7. I am tired of all the insecurity tied up with everyday use of windows.

Right now I am testing Windows 7 along with Ubuntu and another major non Microsoft OS. If you build your own hardware or make cutting edge changes Microsoft Windows just isn't worth the hassle any more. The old XP sp3 works for what little you absolutely need windows for now a days.

I have installed multi-boot OS on numerous PCs for friends and given them Ubuntu to use for surfing the Internet and most common tasks, It is a very nice user experience which soon will rival a Macintosh. With WINE many discover there is no need for booting into the windows.

[lennie22]

I'm using RC as my primary and it has been good, I've had no problems with it on my laptop or desktop.

[RAFOldBuzzard]

I'm getting the WIN 7 Premium upgrade for 99.00 thru pre-order, and I'm supposed to complain because I will have take an extra 15 minutes or so (using a flash drive) to install a copy of XP or Vista? That's assuming that I was stupid enough to be running WIN 7 RC1 as my only OS in the first place.

This type of lame complaint is like someone complaining about having to bend over to pick up $100.00 bills that are raining from the sky.

[sargess25]

"Windows 7 testers have long path to upgrade"

why's that? it couldn't be easier; just ditch your PC running Windows OS, and get a shining new MBP. As easy as 1-2-3. It may seem expensive initially, but it'll give you a far more rewarding computer, hassle free, more cost effective experience.

[lennie22]

lol, you crack me up. now go back in the other room with your jokes, grown ups are talking.

[shellcodes_coder]

Get a new MacBook--pay more apple tax, vendor locked os, and get your computer easily hacked. That's cool

[Dalkorian]

LOL @shellcodes_coder!
1. There is no such thing as an Apple Tax. Period.
2. Vendor locked OS - yup, gotta give you that one.
3. Easily hacked? Try it. You'll find a Unix derivative under the covers (OpenBSD was the basis for Darwin). Point out all the Unix viruses and worms. I bet I can find 10 for winblows for each one you can find for Unix.
4. That's cool. Again, gotta give it to you.

Hmm, 2 out of 4. Most schools would fail you for such a score.