Comments on: Microsoft: No iPhone reimbursements for workers

As part of its wave of cost cuts, the software maker will only reimburse workers for Windows Mobile cell phones.

[darkxeno]

Why is this a shock?? Why would any company pay a competing company when they have their own type of product. You don't see GM buying Ford cars for its sales reps. This is only a story cause MS vs Apple.

[Vegaman_Dan]

My company staffs IT groups in many companies and it's always just good business sense to equip those workers with the products of the company you are supporting. We support Sony and Toshiba too, but it looks bad for your staff working at Sony to all be running around with high end Toshiba products, for example.

[CDubber]

Talk about making your folks eat their own dog food.

And dog food is a pretty good description for Windows Mobile.

[waldolc]

Too true. It's not even news. It's just water cooler fluff.

[jabberwolf]

Um
Iphone does not work!!!!

At least not well with active sync... which is the reason someone would ask for the reimbursement/

So no duh, to something that doesnt work !!

[geshp]

If you can't stand behind your product enough to actually use it yourself, you'll never sell it. Period. I wouldn't buy an iPhone if the salesman took a call on his Blackberry.

[Kwasiowusu]

@ darkxeno:"Why is this a shock?? Why would any company pay a competing company when they have their own type of product. You don't see GM buying Ford cars for its sales reps. This is only a story cause MS vs Apple"

BINGO!
The real question here is, why on earth Steve Ballmer allowed Microsoft to subsisize iPhones for Microsoft employees in the first place. That's the real story. If some Microsoft employees are stupid enough to want to use iPhones, let then do it on their own dime. They are overpaid enough as it is.

[thelemurking]

What Microsoft should be doing is writing / selling apps specifically for the iPhone. It'd be nice to have a mobile version of Office on the iPhone to make some quick changes to Word / Excel files, better Exchange support among other things.

Like it or not, the iPhone is here to stay and it's moving into business rather quickly. Since Microsoft is more of a software company, they should be writing software for platforms that sell well. There is nothing wrong with having apps ported to other phone OS's if people are willing to buy both. But yes, this is an incentive to put up or shut up... innovate or get out of the way.

[kcotham]

How would that save money? If you are getting charged for every kilobyte transmitted and received, what does it matter the platform you are using? Is there something that was left out of the article? Do Microsoft mobile devices use some kind of super-duper compression algorithm? Do they handicap Microsoft mobile devices so that they only have a certain set of functions? More details please.

[monkeyfun14]

No but why would you pay for your competition?

[darkxeno]

No differences in the data charges, It just looks bad when a MS rep comes walking in and doesn't use their own products they use another companies. Shows no faith in their own items and makes a client say why use them? Their own people don't use their devices. Creating a loss in sale or trust from the client due to an employee carrying a non-MS product.

[camp88]

@ monkeyfun14

It's the data plan that they're not paying for, that's from the carrier not the handset manufacturer.

The question I have is how would they know? The billing information that I submit for my plan does not detail which handset or OS I'm using.

[Vegaman_Dan]

A few groups at Microsoft directly tied to Windows Mobile or cell phone design/support/marketing planning would have their cell phones and data plans paid for by the company even though they were personally owned since those people would be using them for company business anyways.

Microsoft has since cut that back, only supporting those that are using Microsoft products. Those people who had BlackBerries, iPhones, etc, would have a hard time suggesting they were using their non-Microsoft OS products on Microsoft OS business. So no paid cell phones/data plans for them.

If they wanted to go use a Windows Mobile device, then it's fine, but they can't expect Microsoft to pay for their personally owned BB or iPhone anymore.

[techman21]

From my observation, data plans for Blackberries and iPhones tends to be higher than for Windows Mobile devices, at least for smartphones (no touch screen). Somehow cellular carriers think you won't surf the web as much without a touchscreen, I guess...

[odubtaig]

Nah, that's got nothing yo do with it. The cost of the 'free' phone is subsidised by the call/data plan and the more expensive the phone the more expensive the call plan needs to be to pay for the phone. The cost increase is half to cover the extra time/data and half to cover the added incentive of a flashier phone with the phone companies' hope that you'll go for a cheaper phone anyway so they can make even more money.

Personally, I'd have no problem with MS's policy on this if I did work for them, I don't like the idea of my boss having my personal number (my off time is my _off_ time) and if I get a work specific phone at no cost I don't much care what runs on it. Use it for work, switch it off when I get home.

[cosuna]

You remind me on this. Isn't Microsoft supposed to be a Software and Service's company (according to Ray Ozzie's new pitch). If so, why hamper in house competition on the OS side, if you still could provide software for that platform.

Nah... Microsoft's still a OS monopoly centric company and as such, thinks that if their people just use their products, they will become better technical salesman. Wrong!!!

I.B.M. found out this the hard way, when they designed the P.C. If they had had the "not invented here" paradigm that almost killed Apple and now could kill Microsoft, they would have let go one of the most profitable businesses available. Even Microsoft wouldn't have existed.

Well, guess companies don't trip on the same stone twice, but do trip on someone else's second stone.

[LaTene_Man]

Sounds like they just want to stifle the competition in an area where they can dictate policy, the only place.

[aka_tripleB]

It doesn't save Microsoft money if workers actually switch to a Windows Mobile phone, but that cost can be offset by the walking ad the workers become using the phone.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Another qualification- You only got the paid data plan coverage if your job was directly associated with Windows Mobile or cell phone hardware. The majority of Microsofties never did get this.

They all get a discount on their normal cell phone plans through sponsored providers, but that's common with most corporations. Even my own company offers discounts for Sprint, AT&T and Verizon.

The story makes it sound much more significant than it actually is.

[empirestatebuddy]

Does Apple even ALLOW its workers to use anything but an iPhone...?

This is such a non-story.

[Vegaman_Dan]

I can't speak for Apple, but the policy isn't an unusual one from any company.

I used to work at AT&T Wireles who was then bought out by Sprint at the time. We were told we could no longer have any cell phones on the property, personal or otherwise, unless they were Sprint phones. That's fine- that's the company's right to enforce if they so desire.

The only exception was our group- the technicians who had to have Verizon phones because... Sprint didn't have coverage at the company's HQ where we were stationed. Ironic! We did have to keep the phones in black cases with no brand names visible, but still, it was a silly and funny thing.

[LaTene_Man]

Sounds like Microsoft is being silly here too. They don't wan their own people to see how much easier to use the iPhone OS and RIM's UI is to use than their own. LOL!

[Vegaman_Dan]

@LaTene_Man:

"Sounds like Microsoft is being silly here too. They don't wan their own people to see how much easier to use the iPhone OS and RIM's UI is to use than their own. LOL! "

Or it could be that the very limited Exchange support that is on the iPhone doesn't meet the same minimum features that Exchange offers on Windows Mobile devices. Or that since all applications run as root on the iPhone that the security risks of allowing such a device on the internal corporate network becomes a huge data liability Or it could be any number of things like- not wanting to have to add more support for a product they don't sell? Remember that those employees have to call their own help desk and that help desk isn't Apple.

[LaTene_Man]

Vega,
It's funny how you are so focused on pointing out the flaws of Apple products that you overlooked the fact that Blackberry doesn't have a problem with Exchange servers. What about RIM? What about BlackBerry?

[C0mmanderB0nd]

Balmer won't even let his own children own an iPod, why would he pay for an employees iPhone or blackberry.....

[slickuser]

This is 100% savings for Microsoft since I don't think any of their
employees would be using Windows CE based phones..

[motenak]

This comment is PERFECT! I was reading all of the reader comments and thinking to myself, WHO CARES? What I thought was funny is that if the iPhone didn't exist this article would still have been published but no one would have given a crap!

[edfaulkner]

good one!

on another note, Microsoft licenses the Exchange technology imbedded in the iPhone, and makes money on each sale (I'm sure it's VERY small, but they still make something).

[Aaron Kempf]

windows mobile is awesome-- the stuff that you can do with SQL Server Mobile puts the iPhone to shame.

[purcell429]

Right....... Because 99% of people really need to use SQL Server Mobile every day... whatever the hell that is. Not everyone works for an IT department.

[slickuser]

@ purcell

hehe. thats funny

[cosuna]

@Aaron: have you even gone past a simple Compact Framework app or Visual Basic stuff. Try programming Super Monkey Ball on SQL. For businesses, Windows Mobile is enough, just as COBOL is for the enterprise. Or should it be?

Ooops... you don't know COBOL...but guess what... it puts C# and VB.NET to shame...

[supoman]

Windows Mobile stinks. This is going to cost them MORE money in lost productivity. Not to mention mobile Internet Explorer is still pretty anemic.

[ducttape36]

good thing you can use skyfire or opera instead on windows mobile.

[frankz00]

PREDICTION: Microsoft employees will still buy iPhones. The 15 million others sold with no reimbursements. This is dumb.

[Kwasiowusu]

@ frankz00 :"PREDICTION: Microsoft employees will still buy iPhones"

They can buy whatever they want...so far as they use their own money, and don't mooch off shareholders money to buy it.

[professionaladventurer]

So if you work at Microsoft you have to pay them to buy their phone and they pay some of your bill?

[Vegaman_Dan]

If you work at Microsoft in the Windows mobile division or any other group that actually has something to do with the product, then the company will pay for the cell phone and service plans.

If you work at Microsfot and use a Windows mobile phone, they will pay for the data plan- assuming you have a job justification- not every Microsoft employee qualifies. You have to be actively involved in the product.

If you work at Microsoft and want to use a non-MSFT product cell phone, then you're on your own for both phone and data plan costs.

[LaTene_Man]

Is that the area that you work in Dan? You're a Microsoft employee, isn't that right?

[Vegaman_Dan]

@LaTene_Man:

"Is that the area that you work in Dan? You're a Microsoft employee, isn't that right? "

I don't work in Windows Mobile; I don't work for Microsoft; and I don't have an iPhone, but I hope to buy one in the coming months.

My job depends on Microsoft products failing to make money. When Windows breaks, I am there to fix it. When OS X breaks, I'm there too. When Linux products break, that's my forte as well. Whenever something goes wrong, they call their 911 tech service.

[LaTene_Man]

That's a pretty broad description. What do you do then? I noticed the other day you were hounding some guy about working for a doctor or something. What exactly is your area of expertise?

[darkr]

nope its standard among corporations

if you work for RIM for example they give you a blackberry (model depends on which department ) and pay for your dataplan but no voice but you have to return it when you leave the company

my brother works for RIM he owns a blackberry and have a company one

[Toulinwoek]

I seriously doubt that there's anyone who draws a paycheck against a Microsoft payroll account who would have trouble paying for their own phone/plan if they don't want to use what the company provides or will pay for.
In a way, it's rather similar to healtcare coverage; if you don't want what the company provides, you are free to get your own, but at your expense of course.
I'm not exactly a 'fan' of Microsoft, but from a business perspective, I can see the logic in such a policy. Whether you happen to have a low opinion of Windows Mobile or not is irrelvant.

[mikehill33]

I'm sure Steve Jobs runs the regime just as tight. Why is this news? Everybody eats their own dog food. They think it matters.

[ikramerica--2008]

Exactly. Companies should only reimburse for their own products if those products do the job.

Next thing we'll hear is that McDonald's has stopped giving employees discounts/free meals food from Taco Bell. Oh wait, they never did that in the first place...

Except Apple Employees can get discounts on AT&T cell phone service regardless of the device!

[Vegaman_Dan]

Microsoft employees get a discount on many cell phone providers for service plans. They don't pay for the discounts, but by being a MIcrosoft employee, you could qualify for them. This is common and you should check out with your own company to see if they offer similar. You could be saving money on a phone you already have.

[LaTene_Man]

Yeah, a lot of companies offer this, even ones that don't have anything to do with the phone makers or cellular provider. They have huge corporate accounts and so adding one more phone costs very little. I used to work for this company to where they did that . You basically paid the company, then they paid the entire company's bill.

[Kwasiowusu]

What I'd like to now is, why the heck Microsoft was even paying for iPhones for their employees in the first place, given that Windows Mobile phones are far more corporate friendly than iPhones and a heck of a lot cheaper to boot?
That's the biggest waste of money I ever heard of. Is this how Microsoft looks after shareholders money, buy wasting money on subsidising competitive, inferior Apple products for their over pampered employees?

[Vegaman_Dan]

The only iPhones that were paid for were those for testing purposes. The article is pretty loose about that fact.

Microsoft had been paying for the data plan on employee purchased and owned iPhones, but that has changed now. Now nobody gets their data plan paid for unless you are directly associated with the Windows mobile product itself.

No real surprise.

[LaTene_Man]

It wasn't just iPhones Kawasaki or whatever you name is. Mico$oft has outlawed all reimbursement on all competitor's phones. So if you have a Blackberry, you're screwed.

[Kwasiowusu]

@ LaTene_Man, an idiot that calles himself "LaTene_Man"(what the heck is that?), is making diparaging refreences to my moniker?

@ LaTene_Man: " Mico$oft has outlawed all reimbursement on all competitor's phones."

GOOD!
Microsoft should NOT be paying to subsidize competitors products for their employees, same as GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda etc , never subsidize their execs to use cars from their competitors

@ LaTene_Man:" So if you have a Blackberry, you're screwed."

If you work for Micrsoft, and Microsoft is using company money to pay for your Blackberry, you SHOULD be screwed. That shold never have been allowed to happen in the first place.
How the heck can Microsoft hope to effectively sell Windows Mobile to phone makers and phone companies, when they are busy subsidizing rivals phones for their own employees? It's ridiculous.

[LaTene_Man]

KWASIOWUSU, did I spell it right? What the heck does that mean anyway? It's not a European language, I can see that. Don't want to offend any trolls out there. Google "La Tene" if you want an education (doubtful). [moving on]

It's not the phones they are paying for, reread the article. They are only reimbursing employees for their data plans if they have a Windows Mobile device. It's not explained how the phones operating system makes any difference at all. Data is data as far as the cell provider and the network are concerned. You moved 1 megabyte on the network on a Windows Mobile device, I move 1 megabyte on a RIM device. Same difference, same cost. Microsoft is just strong-arming their employees into choosing choices with their name brand. They're using vinegar instead of honey to do it.

[LaTene_Man]

Oh, wasn't making disparaging remarks about your moniker, just couldn't remember how to spell it and didn't feel like trying.

[caltechboy]

why phone to browse? just use computer :)
u r not gonna browse while drivin

[sal-magnone]

Some one said this was dumb -

You can like competition and your competition but that doesn't mean you have to subsidize it/them. I'm sure Toyota isn't applying employee discounts to Hondas.

[Toulinwoek]

LOL. Well said!!!

[franglais--2008]

Don't know how it works in the US, but in France companies buy data in bulk data plans, so it'd make sense to buy in bulk from as few suppliers as possible, non?

[berg0011]

My question is if they are allowed to get sidekicks payed for or just win mob, since the danger os on the sidekick is now owned by microsoft and the os links up with outlook using intellisync, also owned by danger/microsoft.

[br_avinash]

This is pathetic! This shows signs of desperation from Microsoft, they can't stop people from using what they like. If they have bad product like windows mobile, then they have to focus on improving it rather than do such sad things.

[Kwasiowusu]

@ br_avinash : "This shows signs of desperation from Microsoft, they can't stop people from using what they like"

Try telling that to Ford, Toyota , GM, Honda etc, none of whom EVER allow their comnpany to subsidize cars from their rivals for their executives to use.
Employees can use what they like..just don't expect the company to use shareholders money to pay to subsidize a competitor's product, which is WORSE with corporate networks than Microsoft's own Windows Mobile phones.
If you wanna use iPhone, go use your own money. Period!

[LaTene_Man]

Again with the car analogies? Can't you guys come up with something else?

[Kwasiowusu]

@ LaTene_Man :"Again with the car analogies? Can't you guys come up with something else? "



Now why don't you come up with a sensible retort to the car analogy instead, before you even begin demanding another analogy? [CNET editors' note: Personal attack deleted.]

So far, I am yet to hear anything from you guys that effectively counters that argument.

When you have come up with an effective reply to the car analogy, I have plenty of other analogies to bring up if you want.

[LaTene_Man]

The car analogies are just tired and old. Come up with something new. Even the best analogy is a poor substitute for expressing yourself well.

[InklingBooks]

I love the line in the movie "Patton' in which the pj-clad general puts down a book by his German opponent and says something like, "Rommel, I read your book." Only fools ignore their foes.

If Microsoft's management were a bit more clever, they'd want their staff to use iPhones and Blackberries, particularly those involved in Windows Mobile. Knowing your enemy is the only way to beat him.

I know there are people at T-Mobile's headquarters who use jail-broke iPhones on their own GSM system. They're looking for what they can learn from a competitor and for ways to better support all those who're avoiding AT&T's pricey data plan by going with them. And that support makes it more likely I'll stay with them when I find a 1st-generation iPhone that fits my tight writer's budget.

Pleasing customers by not getting hung up on the corporate image is another good business practice. Banning iPhones and Blackberries sends the message that, "Even our own employees prefer them."

[Kwasiowusu]

@ InklingBooks :"If Microsoft's management were a bit more clever, they'd want their staff to use iPhones and Blackberries, particularly those involved in Windows Mobile"

The only Microsoft employees who should be subsidized to use iPhones are the few Microsoft employees who are actively engaged in designing the next versions of Windows Mobile OS's etc. From the article above, it appears Microsoft employees willy nilly, and randomly expect the company to subsidize their precious iPhones, irrespective of whether they are involved with the Win Mo business or not. That is simply not acceptable.

[Toulinwoek]

Your Patton analogy has a flaw. Patton only needed to buy Rommel's book once, not hundreds of times plus monthly recurrences!
My point is, I'm sure Microsoft knows all it needs to know about their competition by now without having to pay over and over again. If you really believe that subsidising employees' phone plans with competitors is "clever", I doubt you'd find a board (not to mention a group of savvy shareholders) who'd agree with that management philospohy.

[kelmon]

Silly question but why is this an iPhone article rather than a Blackberry article? RIM has twice the market share that Apple does so surely this decision impacts them more than Apple, unless Microsoft employees have been selecting iPhones rather than Blackberrys (sounds odd but I expect stranger things have happened).

Personally, I'm guessing this is a cynical headline to drum-up page hits (not that CNet is the only site guilty of this, of course) but that's just me.

[LaTene_Man]

It's not, but the Microserfs here have made it one. The article says that Microsoft won't reimburse you for your data plan if you aren't using a device with Microsoft mobile on it. That includes iPhone and Blackberry and anything else that isn't using Microsoft mobile. The trolls like to make everything about Apple. I swear, they write more about Apple, griping about them....It's free advertising for Apple I guess.

[Kyanar]

Modern Blackberries run Windows Mobile anyway, so... well, you fill in the rest.