Comments on: Who wins, loses with browser-less Windows 7

Microsoft's move to offer Windows 7 in Europe without a browser could help rivals and mean some added bucks for PC makers, but are consumers getting a raw deal?

[baisa]

The only way this insanity will end is when businesses get a backbone and finally say, "NO!" Windows is Microsoft's product which it offers for sales to end users and OEM's who each it turn can agree or not. The freedoms of production, association, and trade are inviolable individual rights that are egregiously infringed by all these "anti-trust" laws. It is the ultimate irony when the EU says it is "helping" consumers by forcing those consumers to receive an OS without any browser! And the other browsers are given away free anyway!!!! AND users are completely free to download and install any other browser anyway.

[Hunnter2k3]

But the nature of Windows terms allow for competition within it.
If Microsoft had a version of Windows where it specifically mentioned that it was for applications that only Microsoft allows, then they might have the right to say "NO!".

This is why web-based services are becoming more popular, because the owner has almost full control of what the users can do.
Look at things like Oracle 10g (looks like they have an 11 now), fantastic service, but totally out of your control, outside of entering in some SQL and managing tables.
(Ah Oracle exam, that was fun.)

Microsoft are researching this route, if i remember correct.
Bare-bones OS that handles everything from a remote location, but for your average media-rich person, it might not be such a good idea at the moment until all the internet pipes get upgraded, they are already getting pretty clogged as it is.

[blafouille]

Microsoft decide to do so not the EU court,But do not worry MS will provide the way to download a browser easily the big EU market is too tempting...Read the last news....

[Gadget70]

Can you actually do a windows update without Windows Explorer? I remember seeing an error message in Vista once saying windows update required windows explorer. Maybe they made it browser independent on Windows 7. This is a little crazy on the EU's part. Are they going to go after Mac as well because they include Safari. It's easy enough to download and use another browser (as long as you HAVE a browser to start with). C'mon Europe, give your head a scratch.

[blafouille]

Microsoft still have to go to court by the way is not done....Microsoft snobbing the EU market....

[viper396]

This would be like buying a car...without tires, radio, or brakes and telling the consumer to install the brand they want later.

The "E" versions will probable be as un-successfull as the prior versions of Windows that shipped without Media Player (The "N" versions). Customers didn't want it and didn't care, only the EU government and the rivals of Microsoft did. Anyone who says this was in the best interest of the consumer knows that's BS. Browsers are free, there's no real winning or losing here except for the braggin rights. There was never anything preventing people from installing alternative browsers if that's what they wanted.

[blafouille]

and do not forget remove it...

[worried1]

I?ve said this before; if I were Microsoft I would shut down all my facilities in the EU and stop all direct sales of Windows. The EU users could still get Windows from other sources and prove to the EU they want Windows. As for not having a choice why not count how many users already use another browser? Their argument is baseless and only supported by those that can not sell their product. I have and still use more than one browser and it was not difficult to get and try them. Will the EU go after Linux all versions I install defaulted to Firefox? The EU action will only lead to disgruntled users and higher cost.

[blafouille]

in Usa they can watch a movie with advertising every 5 minutes in EU every 30 minutes is not appreciate ,you get it....

[magvine]

I really don't understand the browser wars. Is there really any profit in something that is free? Is there liscensing of scripts or something. I mean seriously, is there any real profit in the browser itself? (I know Google will probably use Chrome as a platform for its apps, but the others aren't making web apps for their browsers.)

If we are going to attack preloaded software than why not the movie programs in Windows and Macs, don't they compete with other video software? What about picture viewers, or every other piece of built in software that makes either Mac or Windows superior to Linux for the user that doesn't want to worry about finding every program they may need. Apple should take this as a warning, Microsoft is a big target, but even they could get hit in the future.

[blafouille]

Internet is not free...

[deanbvfx]

MS make money through selling Adverts on Live, the default search engine on IE. Google ties it's search engine with Chrome and through a contract with Firefox. So alot o money can be had with Browsers.

[luke_marsh]

If I was Google I know what be doing. I would be offering google chrome over FTP for the purpose of euro zone OEM s and marketing Chrome after October rather heavily too in that moment even to the extent of gain attention from anyone using Google services in the Euro zone.
Chrome being an ideal flagship trojan horse to get more google into user desktops I certainly would.

[deanbvfx]

I would guess that Google are gonna be spending the next few months going around all the PC manufacturers and having a little chat with them. Google already have their Google Desktop on alot of store bought PC's, so getting Chrome on a now Browser free OS wouldn't be too hard.

[typeA911]

So whats the problem? Install I.E. 8 then upgrade. Personaly I don't like upgrading the O.S. I wud do a clean install then install Firefox and transfer ur saved bookmarks into Firefox from a flashdrive or a reasonable facsimile thereof. This is a nice payback for the E.U. suing Microsoft over the I.E. browser fiasco. HAH! I don't see why U cudn't down load I.E. 8 off the net anyway.

[j_a_s_p_e_r]

How to ou pick yourself up with your bootstraps? How do you get a browser without a browser? Unless you can use command line ftp to get one from the command shell.

[JDcomputerguy]

"Hey PC, what are you up too?" asks mac. "We just fixed our virus problem," says PC. "Wow, thats awsome! how did you do that?" asks mac. "We took away the internet for all users who don't know what FTP is."

[emmustee]

This is ridiculous, I don't really like Internet Explorer, and use Firefox, but not having Internet Explorer included is absurd. This is just an inconvenience to the consumer. I think if Microsoft produces the operating system, they should have the right to put in any browser that they choose. How would you even install Firefox in the first place without going through the hassle of going to another computer and putting it on a usb drive, going back, and then installing it? I know many people that only use one computer, so I am sure there are even more in the world. I hope something eventually gets done about this.

[RF373]

Firefox managed to capture about 20% of websurfers, even with the stacked deck on Windows systems. If Microsoft has to ship all Windows without IE, Firefox will overtake it before too long -- -- found a cool site; Balkingpoints ; incredible satellite view of earth

[ErnieTheBear]

Umm.... I have FOUR major applications in my environment that use the IE engine. They don't run inside a browser window, either. They have their own displays.

[LLIB_SETAG]

Win7 E?
E is for the EU / Euro version sans browser?

WHY isn't E for Everybody in the world? Now that the genius at Microsloth has figured out how to surgically extract IE from Windows ( US DOJ anti-trust trial under oath testimony by Citizen Gates swore that this was "impossible to do without making Windows inoperable..." ), why then isn't Win7 E going to be the de facto Windows OS?

Upon install the USER who paid for Windows OS will be the final choice in the free market & NOT the software monopolist Microsith.

Q : Do you wish to connect to the Internet? Y
Q: Would you like to choose a Windows compatible Internet Browser to download? Y
Please choose one of the following browsers :
A. Opera / B. AOL / C. Netscape / D. Safari / E. Firefox / F. Chrome / G Internet Explorer /H. etc.,etc.,etc.......

THEN we would also know WHICH Browser is the most popular by choice of the customer & not based on Browsers SHIPPED, or de facto very hard to remove browsers like IE from Windows by Microsoft.

Good for Europe, but not good enough for the USA Mr. Ballmer?

I am not a fan of Microsoft's anti-competitive ways of doing business but I DO THINK THIS IS A BRILLIANT MOVE on there part , 'why should they become the vehicle by which all other browsers spread their wings let each company on there own find ways of making there browsers available to the general public,

[blafouille]

he look like panic to for the next court appearance....

[j_a_s_p_e_r]

Can someone explain to me what makes the browser so special. Lets take this to the absurd "reductum ad absurdum" .Windows should ship without notepad and wordpad to allow alternatives to be installed. Windows should ship without windows media player, movie maker and paint. The calculator should be removed. All that should ship is the kernel, no GUI. Heck, microsoft should offer Linux and make their OS free. Microsoft should give away all their IP - for free with no restrictions. Actually there are many in the EU that want that last one

Of course this is absurd, I'm trying to make a point. Americans need to realize that the EU is in an economic war with the US. They will keep punishing Microsoft, Boeing, Intel, Cisco, US Pharma, etc. just watch its going to get worse... I don't say boycott EU products, I mean what EU products are there to boycot anyway... :). Let the flames begin....

[cheshirkat]

IMHO all of those who purchase it lose. -cheshirkat

[Hernys]

Opera can't offer a substantial money to get placement for the simple reason that they SELL browsers. Paying companies to include a paid browser makes no sense at all unless it is trialware (another word for crapware) which is not very well received by users and that might cause serious problems when it expires.

[Vegaman_Dan]

This could set up Apple for a bad situation in the EU as well. Now the EU can fine Apple for including iTunes, Safari, Quicktime, etc, all bundled with the OS. They can point to MSFT as an example of what the EU wants... not necessarily what the consumers want, but then the EU has never had any interests but their own in mind.

[blafouille]

You can run Window on Mac.....

[darussian12]

all right everyone were going to do a simple exercise...open up a random windows explorer window such as "my documents" and in the address bar at the top where it says something about my documents...copy and paste in there "ftp://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/3.0.11/win32/en-US/" which will bring you the the ftp folder of the 3.0.11 english windows version of FF and youll see the installer there. thats not so hard is it...youd have to find out the respective FTP servers for other browsers such as safari or opera...but it would be the same general crap. its not the end of the world....the bigger prob i think is going to be most routers/cable modems and such have browser based firmware so if someone just bought a new pc and got high speed internet they need to do setup on...theyre going to need to setup the connection somehow before using ftp to get anything else downloaded

[darussian12]

of course no one could remember such a long server address and versions change...but you could just start at "ftp://releases.mozilla.org" and work through the folders mozilla has on their server...they have some interesting other software on there other then FF.

[alan_06]

Quote:
>>"It's definitely regulation gone wild and it's not going to help the consumer."
Completely agree.

Impact of removing IE on self upgrade is likely not going to keep EU happy either. Probably they'll sue MS again for not providing an easy option in the OS to download some browser :)
Wise way to spend the money they got from MS is to provide free CD-ROMs with browsers installed to all EU customers.

[ChottuKhanna]

This is the craziest piece of legislation that I have seen coming out of the EU. Do they want to protect consumers or their own software companies. If I buy windows, I want a browser with it. If I buy the Apple OS - I want a browser to come with it. If windows ships with IE- so be it. I can always change to another one. However, if I have no way to connect to the internet because the pc came without a browser- then I am stuck

Very few people buy an operating system on their own - its normally with a new pc. If they want a browser other than IE, then why dont they ask their pc supplier - instead of creating problems for the millions of others who are quite happy to use IE.

[arifsaha]

You are mistaken; EU did not forbid Microsoft to include browser! Instead EU told Microsoft to give customer choices of browsers.