Comments on: Apple bashes Windows 7, talks Snow Leopard

As part of the WWDC 2009 keynote, Apple's Bertrand Serlet takes a few swipes at the competition and talks about the next version of Mac OS X.

[hss12]

FT and Reuters.

[maxonm]

Christ !!, Will this argument never end.. I've been using computers for 30 years now, everything from a kit I built myself in 1975, mainframes, mini's, sgi, sun, NeXT, PC (Linux,windows) & apples. I have managed to make all of them work PERFECTLY, pick your tool, learn it, use it. , If you can't work windows without crashing it, get a OS/machine you can work without it crashing. In general, the less a OS/Machine does the less it can crash. how often to calculators crash?

If your not up to operating a computer properly, perhaps you should be learning, instead of preaching your choice. To those that know, The general saying is.

Microsoft was designed by idiots..Macintosh was designed for Idiots..

[darkxeno]

@maxonm : "Microsoft was designed by idiots..Macintosh was designed for Idiots.."

Dang man your letting the cat out of the bag, I've been making money of both sides of the debate for years, I'll sell either OS to who ever wants it, come on I have a house to pay for.

[shycelticwitch]

LOLOL I am a Mac user and I agree maxonm... but not quite as vehemently. Macs are for "dummies" has been the saying thus far... not sure how "idiots" got in there, but to me there is a distinct difference. The phrase was coined because in the beginning (and still) OS X does not require a degree in engineering to operate. In other words, OS X has all you need and more, but it sweetly maintains itself without interruption or glitches that require an IT department.

@ Darkxeno.... LOL go get 'em.

[maxonm]

@darkexno -- FYI, you didn't hear it from me.. but the Mac people have more money..

@shycelticwitch -- Idiots vs Dummies ?? when I originally heard the saying, the term was a very un-PC term for the mentally Handicapped., The term idiot may be too strong but dummies is too soft.Perhaps lets meet in the middle and say "Morons"

Regardless- Pick the tool you can operate... whether it be a pen or a crayon.. :-)

[Sribharat]

maxonm... I love your quote "Microsoft was designed by idiots..Macintosh was designed for Idiots.."
I just came home from work and was really tired. I wanted something refreshing. Reading this blog made me smile. It's so funny to see people arguing over computers. I love to see these guys in a wrestling ring. It'll be an awesome spectacle - Royal Rumble baby!!!!!!!

[seven7dust]

So if I get spyware on a windows Pc, which mostly happens just by visiting a few sites
I automatically become a idiot Lol! ?
you do realize that the majority of the tech newbs still use Windows !
Mac OSX is just better designed thats about it ... and thats my opinion !
basing someone's intelligence on this is probably the most stupidest thing of the lot !

[maxonm]

seven7dust@"So if I get spyware on a windows Pc, which mostly happens just by visiting a few sites
I automatically become a idiot Lol! ?"

No as previously stated.. Moron is the new term. If you can configure your browser properly you should not be allowed to own a computer.

Seven7dust@ "Mac OSX is just better designed thats about it ... and thats my opinion !
basing someone's intelligence on this is probably the most stupidest thing of the lot ! "

Not Intelligence, (after all Stephen Hawkings uses a MAC), but ability..

[darcydj]

I don't agree with either of your statements.

I think that Microsoft tries much too hard to have backward compatibility which leads to many problems (ie: security, stability). Apple does not do this.. there have been many times where a new OS comes out and some software just wont work in the newer version.

I use both... Windows for access to a plethora of applications and so I can keep up to date with my clients. Apple because I just want things to work.. My macbook has only rebooted 15 times in the past 1.5 years w/ 1 lockup.

[Motyoj]

So...if you use a computer, you're an idiot (which includes you too!). It's all becoming clear now....

[Otto Holland]

Even if the Leopard has the "Tundra" attached, not everyone needs it or interested in know the spots. I for one will NEVER use it and don't give a crap. Apple can bash or do even worst; makes no difference to me. I hate anything "i" and have not spent a cent on the "i" things.

It was not so long ago when Apple was broke and guess came to their rescue? Microsoft of course. Different folks...different strokes. You like Apple and use effectively; good for you!

I support Apple in my company but have no use for it AND I don't go around bashing either. I will bet a month salary that Windows is far better than Apple's "Snow" I havew tested it and I am convince it works great.

[Gimpymw]

I'll take that bet! I bet that Snow Leopard is better than... than... Windows 95! Or, even Windows 98!

Hell it's better than and version if Windows.

I hope you have a large Salary. Please make the cheque out to cassssshhhhhhh!

[darcydj]

I used to feel the same way until one X-mas morning when there was an iPod video under the tree for me. I had totally dismissed EVER using an Apple product. What changed my mind was how EASY it was to use compared to all the other MP3 players I had up until then. I think its best to have both... Windows for all the software.. and Mac OS for fewer headaches... I have only has 1 lockup with my Mac in the 1.5 years I have had it.. ALL of the features work as intended.

[homercles82]

I find it funny that Apple comes out of the gate swining at MS and Windows 7. Makes me think they are scared

[seven7dust]

they have been doing it for years
for eg-: the WWDC 2 years back they bashed Vista into oblivion !
compared to that this was a peck on the cheek actually !

[darcydj]

I think that is the farthest from the truth... They have taken market share from Windows for the last 5-6 years. As a matter of fact the number one laptop sold in 2008 was the Macbook.

[websterphreaky]

AND NOW A FACTUAL REPLY to the AppleTard Marketing Dope who was busy bashing Windows 7 and not watching who might throw rocks back at the Apple Glass House -

All QUOTES from macfixit.com website list JUST THIS WEEKS Mac Bugs! -

1) Cannot add or edit contacts in Apple's Address Book
2) Apple (has to) extends MacBook Pro GeForce 8600M graphics card warranty (because of failures).
3) iPhoto unable to upgrade older iPhoto Library databases.
4) Drives not mounting when connected to FireWire
5) Bizarre Mac OS X graphics glitches
6) QuickTime 7.5.5: iChat freezing after a few minutes of Audio or Video chat
7) Mac OS X 10.5.5: SystemUIServer crashing; Apple TV sync issues; MacBook external display issue
8) Desktop disappearing after installing programs/updates
9) iTunes 8 update resulting in lost music?

Better duck those stones your throwing in your ******* Glass Houses .... cause Macs and OS X has a LONGER HISTORY of BUGS and FLAWS!

[kcotham]

@webster

What in the world would a troll like you know about facts? Facts can be made to say anything, just like statistics. You pointed out faults, goody for you. Did you list the faults of Windows alongside? I'm sure there would be a lot more than 9 if you did. Longer history of bugs and flaws? You are the one that is retarded. Windows has been a buggy piece of crap from day one. 1, 2, 3, 95, 98, Me, NT, 2000, XP, Vista, 7, all garbage.

[Gimpymw]

I've experienced none of those issues. Sounds like a bunch bogus claims made by that ****-***** Megan the PC hunter.

[kcotham]

Apple Bashes Windows 7, and this is news why? Apple has been taking Microsoft to task for 25 years. Keep playing catch-up Redmond.

As I've been saying all along, Windows 7 is mainly a rehashing of Vista, an attempt to make it less annoying (a losing proposition). Snow Leopard is a serious tweaking of the Darwin underpinnings.

[B-Ri]

Windows 7 is the same thing as Snow Leopard. Both are not making major changes. What are the "serious tweaks" you refer to? Don't get me wrong, I love leopard and it has been the best Mac OS to date but I also think Windows 7 is probably the best version MS has put out to date too. My issues mainly come from compatibility between the two as we have a mixed Mac/PC environment here at work. I use a Mac as my main machine but use a PC for reference and testing purposes. I'm excited Snow Leopard will have native exchange support though. Maybe they can do a better job with it than Entourage does.

[kcotham]

This is as good a place as any to start.
http://www.apple.com/macosx/

[Gimpymw]

@ B-RI

Yes, but even though Windows 7 will probablly be the best version of Windows so far it'll still blow chunks compared to Snow Leopard. At least that's what I understood as the basic message after watching the WWDC stream.

If you're having issues sharing data in a mixed computer environment you should consider storing common data on a network share. Seems to work just fine where I work. Or, you can get third party support. For example I've installed NTFS for Mac OSX at home, which allows me to read /write to NTFS formated storage.

[marvano]

Sorry Apple, but i had to return the Mac i got. So, I am a PC.

[kcotham]

Why, because you couldn't find the "Start" button?

[pithenumber]

@kcotham
Mac OS isn't the be all end all of operating systems
there are many things that Windows and Linux do far better at than Mac OS X, marvano is probably doing things that work better on Windows

[Gimpymw]

The need to manually manipulate the registry, constantly install an maintain anti-virus software/updates,do the ocasional OS reinstall and shell out 200-400 dollars for an upgrade are but similar to a warm (but stinky) security blanket for some people. Something that only extensive psyciatric assistance can fix.

[kcotham]

Like what Pi, getting viruses? Because that's about the only thing I've ever seen a Windows machine do better.

[darcydj]

@pithenumber

OSX is a version of Linux. DUH

[Razieln64]

Maybe there are other things that Windows and Linux do better, but no sound recording. The best pro app for recording and mixing is Logic Studio, and guess what? It's developed by apple. So no windows or Linux for me. More than that many pro sound cards only work with mac os x(sorry no windows). I'm not using mac os x because I have to but because I chose to. My computer is very reliable, I've had my mac pro for 3 years now and I would never trade it for a PC. I intend to have it for at least another 5 years. I'm no fanboy, but whatever you are(PC, mac or Linux) just be happy with it and don't bash the other OS. I'm actually happy for windows users because they'll get something better with Windows 7. And I'm also happy with mac os x users because snow leopard will be better.

[kcotham]

Pi,
Most likely because he tried to treat it like it were a Windows machine and couldn't figure out how to do things a different way.

Things that Linux and Windows do better, like what for example? Linux I might believe, maybe, but Windows, I call bull on that. I've used the two for 20 years and I've never seen anything that Windows could do that Mac OS couldn't, except get infected by a virus at the drop of a hat.

[EcuadorHomesOnline]

Macs are slower than PC's, harder to use, less reliable, more expensive, and have a much smaller selection of useful applications. It's no wonder that Apple is still clawing for market share. Admittedly, the Mac OS is "pretty" but that doesn't really count for much in my book - definitely doesn't make it any more user friendly.

[kcotham]

There's at least one in every crowd. Never used a Macintosh, but feels obligated to post anyway.

[EcuadorHomesOnline]

I had to use a Mac at work for almost two years. Hated it - crashed all the time, hard to use, no useful applications, I couldn't automate anything or write scripts. What a waste of time.

[kcotham]

Ecuador, I'm going to call bull on that. You obviously have never used a Mac and are lying through your teeth. All modern Macintoshes have AppleScript and recently even Automator. Stop spreading lies. What was this Mac, when was this? What System? Go ahead, lie your way out.

[pithenumber]

@Ecuador
you can script and automate stuff in a modern version of Mac OS

@kcotham
maybe Ecuador's experience with Mac OS isn't recent

flaming people isn't going to make their, or most of the people that read your comment's view of Mac OS change for the better

[saintlouisranger]

So, what you are saying is that just because every Macintosh can run OS X, Windows most flavor and UNIX it just isn't good enough for you? Give us all a break. Be a troll elsewhere.

[EcuadorHomesOnline]

Ok, I admit that my Mac experience was a while ago - not too long after Win95 came out. And both platforms have evolved and improved to the point that they have very little resemblance to their historic versions. But having to use a Mac was a very unpleasant experience. I found myself working from home where I could use a real computer and actually GET STUFF DONE!

[seven7dust]

@EcuadorHomesOnline
thats exactly the problem with most people they base their opinoins on the past
OS9 was a bad experience I havent used it myself
but heard many horror stories !

well now we are in 2009 and ever since OSX released in 2001 the Mac O.S has improved by a mile
try it and see for yourself, many of the so called new features in Windows Vista and 7
were present in the Mac O.S since years back
it's taken Microsoft this long to catch up !

[kcotham]

@Pi, Equador, et al
Well, if people would stop posting garbage about their experience with Mac OS 7 on a 68040 in 1995 and acting like they know anything at all about the state of the art, then I'll quit "flaming others" as you put it. You would do the same thing if someone posted on here that Windows sucks or something to that effect and based their entire opinion on a hour of sitting in front a machine running Windows 3.1, not wouldn't you?! That's what gets me about all these Windows users that claim to have used a Mac. They either play with one for an hour and/or it's an ancient one.

If you compare the user-experience of the two operating systems over the years with versions that were contemporary, you'll see that in almost every single example, Mac OS was far easier to use, and often more stable in every instance. Did any of you ever see Windows 1 or 2? Compare that to the first several years of Mac OS, it's a joke of a comparison. It's like comparing a Yugo to a BMW. Then there was Windows 95 and it's plug and pray compared to Mac OS 8 (I think that's right). Well, you get the picture. Don't compare Windows XP or Vista to Mac OS 7 for crying out loud. I wouldn't compare Mac OS X10.5.7 to Windows for Workgroups 3.11!

Ecuador, really, sit down in front of a modern, Core2Duo Macintosh with Mac OS X 10.5.7 on it. Do some real work with it, spend some quality keyboard time in front of it and then make a decision. You have to shelve your anti-Mac hostility and your Windows mindset first though.

[EcuadorHomesOnline]

Ok, kcotham. Just to let you know where I come from - I am a software developer and broadcast video engineer, and I do a lot of high-definition video capture and encoding - including work a few years ago for both the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray forums. I capture uncompressed SDI using a dual RAID5 disk array, and I automate a lot of encoding with scripts - which is very easy to do on a PC. Most of my work is feature length movies for the studios. I've had dozens of computers over the years and have NEVER had a virus or anything like that. Most of my PC's don't even have anti-virus software on them since I run them flat-out at 100% proc utilization for days at a time. I was near a Best Buy today and solely on your recomendation, I asked for a demonstration of a Mac. Guess what? Their demo system was down because of a virus! Not kidding! I'll go back in a few days and try again.

[kcotham]

Ecuador,

Once again, I'm going to call bull on you. Your credibility is so low, I wouldn't believe you if you told me the sky was blue. If, just for the sake of argument, that Macintosh had a virus on it, a malicious patron put it there in the twisted attempt to "make a point". I've used Macintoshes for 20 years and never gotten a virus, trojan horse, or worm. I cleaned spyware and a virus off of my Windows 7 partition the other day. And I went to no questionable sites (ie porn or game sites). Explain that! I still say you are a troll.

[Lakebook]

It's really simple; If you want to be CONTROLLED choose Apple, If you wan to be in CONTROL go with Windows. It's that simple!

[EcuadorHomesOnline]

Excellent way to put it. I agree completely!

[seven7dust]

thats Funny cause I have no control on my Xp box watsoever
full of spyware all the time thats need to be cleaned every month
slows down every 3 months and requires hours of maintenance work to keep it up and running optimally

with a Mac I'm in control I get work done in half the no. of steps
can use better designed apps and not have to do all that crappy maintenance work , buggy software or slowdowns

[Gimpymw]

Yes because $400 for the next upgrade is what I describe as being in control...

[darcydj]

So when you purchase a car you are like "I will purchase as long as you disable the Yaw-control, Anti-lock brakes, Air bags and Collision avoidance features"

[kcotham]

@Lakebook
ROFLMAO!!!

[kentonr]

Why are Windows fanboys so bitter?

[darkxeno]

Why are ALL fanboys so bitter?
Answer cause they ran out of money for beer.

[sythara]

and why are apple fanboys so snobby?

[Gimpymw]

@darkxeno.

It's because that's what they smell and taste. The bitter and acrid smoke coming from their fried HD's.

[seven7dust]

I dont get all this complaining
Did they say anything false or spread lies ?
DLLs suck, Registry bloat sux ,and Defrangmenting is a pain
all this stuff you don't need to deal with on OSX

plus Windows 7 will most likely cost 150-300$ for a upgrade compared to 29$
it's basically vista done right isn't it, Looks like Microsoft Tax to me !

[DrtyDogg]

You are to much.

Kexts suck, plist bloat sux and Defrangmenting(sic) is still a pain.
all this stuff is still there, just called different names.

Good to know about the price though I didn't know they had released that yet. . .
http://www.pcworld.com/article/166233/best_buy_memo_on_windows_7_outlines_upgrade_pricing.html
but if you believe Best Buy, they are going to sell it for $49. Good luck with the rest of your story telling though.

[seven7dust]

@DrtyDogg
Funny how I have never experienced problems with them
yes DLL errors are few and far between too, but they do exist unlike in OSX
Compared to the registry anything else is heaven
and Defrag is done automatically actually !

about bestbuy memo , we'll see it when it happens ! it's still 20$ more
for a O.S thats already created botnets after just 5 months in beta !

[kcotham]

Mac OS X is much better at keeping file fragmentation to a minimum. Don't know about dealing with kexts, never had to. As for plists, not a problem. They take up very little room and if one did get corrupted or anything, just delete it. Big deal.

[monkeyfun14]

So the creators are just as bad as the fanboys it appears..

[ulric2]

Microsoft made the work for 64-bit years ago. Windows Explorer and other parts have been 64-bit since the Itanium port of Windows NT. Windows 7 does a lot of under the hood stuff and introduces DirectX 7, with DirectX Compute for GPGPU processing.

To say that Windows 7 is an on-the-surface update while Snow Leopard focuses on 'under the hood' improvement is simply ignorance of what's Windows 7, and Vista. Windows 7 does both.

And no, they don't need to add 64-bit or multicore optimizations to Windows, because we already have that. We're using it every single day. Snow Leopard is in catch-up mode, they're just fixing what's wrong with Leopard.

Apple has told you every single release that OS X was a high performance 64-bit operating system, and the next release they tell you how they have added more 64-bit and improved it. Why is that? it's because actually they never really do all the work, every release they never actually had what Windows XP 64-bit. Since no one has 64-bit apps on OS X (ex: Final Cut Studio is all 32-bit, and Carbon), then no one notices, and they can keep selling the idea of '64-bit' as new every year.

Today, they said that the 64-bit mail app is 40% faster. How is that? 64-bit doesn't make a mail application faster, it allows accessing more RAM and dealing with 64-bit values. This is all marketed to people who don't use or don't know what 64-bit does.

[sythara]

Thank you.

and yes, most people have no clue what 64-bit actually is.

[toxic-x]

As Kcotham said "Don't post about something that you have no clue about. Try the Macintosh first, then speak from experience."

Apple is an amazing company, with amazing products that work how they should. Yes they pick fun at Microsoft I mean who wouldn't. Microsoft loves to make mistakes, take your money, and then do it all over again WOOT WOOT. Windows may have more market share but look how easy it is to get a Windows machine. HERE IS 200 BUCKS FOR A NETBOOK!!!! WOOT YAY! Quality comes at a price.
I have tried Windows 7 and I will say it is a much better OS then Vista.

And to the comment about Apple thinks they invented the first touch screen phone.
I believe they made the FIRST touch screen cell phone that should work like a touch screen and not one of those play toys from the dollar store that break when trying to use the touch screen

Also I worked for an electronic retail store (will not say name) and let me tell you how much the computer department hated selling Windows machines if we didn't tack on accessories or warranties . We lose money ALL the damn time if we sold those plastic **** toys. nuff said

[fearghail]

Only losers use windows, squeal you Microsoft frigtards. I love hear Microsoft fanboys squeal.

[monkeyfun14]

Actually are we not all losers? I mean honestly we come on here shouting at each other about something 95% of the earth couldn't give 2 ***** about.

[kcotham]

But you come out of the woodwork any time Apple is mentioned. Interesting behaviour for someone that doesn't give two whatevers! :-)

[monkeyfun14]

Actually no I don't I really only come out when a Apple fanboy spews bs.

[pithenumber]

@fearghail
troll?
Only losers troll, squeal you frigtard. I love to hear trolls squeal

if you want to comment on your choice of OS, do it in a [semi] civilized manner

[medezark]

Just finished reading the punch list of Snow Leopard changes, and they read like a minor windows service pack rather than a major reworking of the OS. A few tweaks to already existing apps, bug fixes and minimal performance improvements. The biggest improvement on the entire list is the ability to connect e-mail and calendar clients to MICROSOFT Exchange servers, and I've been able to do that with Windows for over a decade.

I get the same changes from Linux distros and even big bad Microsoft for Free.

[ccmike72]

I love that apple is now going to be able to work easily with exchange severs as this will make life easier for mac users in my work place and easier for the tech support. Kudos to you apple and way to offer the upgrade for a decent price.
And for trolls out there lets be honest with each other neither company or product is perfect and neither is evil. Windows offer a lot of options but this can overwhelm and confuse users while apple trys to simplify things for user which frustrates some who want more control. Both have strengths and flaws.

Regardless of which is better

Only Microsoft had to push their release date up 3 months because their current "End-All" operating system was so universally poorly received that they cannot wait to erase its memory. Fortunately there were still some members of the elite Windows ME Task Force to lead the way.

As for me, I'd rather get regular updates that work, rather than a "whole new OS" every 2 years that doesn't.

[jscott418]

Typical Apple diss the competition and brag about yourselves. As my mother always said. If they talk about you even if its bad it means that your on their mind. I think that's very true. I don't see Mac vs Linux ads I see PC vs Mac ads. I just got tired of Apple providing me with what they think I should have in features on a computer. Apple is really very limiting in that. It was nice to see them offer a SD card reader but I still wonder why it took so long for them to offer it? I guess Steve Jobs thought we did not need it? Like the 800 firewire that has been brought back. Gee, Apple maybe you should take a few more user surveys before designing your next laptop. You know Apple makes some nice looking laptops, but they basically have the same kind of parts any computer out there has. So they still need to work on that profit margin before I will buy one.

[kcotham]

I'm glad they don't include everything but the kitchen sink in their laptops. They'd be just as big and bulky and unreliable as the other manufacturer's machines that do.

I would like to see them push FireWire harder though. FireWire (400) actually has faster transfer rates then USB 2.0 in real applications. And FireWire 800 screams in comparison.

[monkeyfun14]

@kcotham

But who uses firewire though?

[kcotham]

Who uses eSATA? Seriously, I've not laid eyes on one eSATA device in the hands of a user yet. I use FireWire for an external drive, my older iPod photo, and my friend's digital video camera.

[pithenumber]

@kcotham
look at external hard drives
eSATA is everywhere

[saintlouisranger]

Sorry, you don't deserve a Macintosh. Linux is still a toy, you still cannot buy a commercial supported application for it. Not one. Why is Apple in a good cash position and BMW and the list goes on... Because all of them, (higher end product manufactures,) demand higher margin. You are not ever going to see an Apple product priced like a Gateway or a Dell. It is not going to happen...

[kcotham]

@Pi
They must have popped up like dandelions in the past year then. I haven't seen eSATA on anything else. FireWire 800 is plenty fast enough for most anything I do. But I see the need for some people. Funny that it was developed as a consumer interface, eSATA that is. Any news on when FireWire 3200 is hitting the streets?

[viper396]

"just another version of Windows".....well then what's Snow Leopard? Apple themselves say Snow Leopard will focus on stability and performance improvements rather then delivering significant new functions. Snow leopard equates to the Windows equivalent of a Service Pack for OSX. At least Microsoft doesn't charge for service packs.

[kcotham]

Just means that Windows 7 will bring along all the legacy crap from the previous versions. The only way Microsoft will ever get ahead is to start from scratch and abandon all that old code.

[seven7dust]

so you mean to say windows 7 will be free ?
keep dreaming Microsoft tax and it's taxing O.S are expensive too !