Comments on: Russia said to probe Microsoft over XP halt

According to Reuters, regulators in Moscow say that Microsoft's move to end Windows XP sales in favor of Vista may have violated its antitrust laws.

[Commander_Spock]

Re: "Microsoft has largely stopped selling Windows XP for use on new computers, although it is still allowed in some emerging markets as well as for very low-cost machines, such as Netbooks....

This is just great; now, how about extending the "antitrust inquiry" by the Russian Federation as to what happened with IBM's OS/2 Warp which (it is understood) is very much still in use by "the Russians"!

See the below attached link:

http://en.ecomstation.ru/solutions/?action=solutions

Also, instead of "fines" that the EU imposes; have them work at the special "hotels rooms" in Siberia!

Cool!

[t8]

OS/2 Wart is dead.

[timber2005]

I still can't wrap my head around how its antitrust to discontinue an old product...

[BtmnHatesRbn]

@t8

Can you provide proof that the OS used by more banks worldwide that any other is dead? OS/2 Warp 4 is alive and kicking with eComStation supporting it on IBM's behalf.

[Commander_Spock]

This should have read; "Also, instead of "fines" that the EU imposes; have them work (on the enhancements for this Operating System) from the/their special "hotels rooms" in Siberia!

Cool!

[sanenazok]

How are you? Your first comment makes sense* except for these last lines! So close, but still light years away from us here.

*Well about as much sense as complaining about OS/2 failure does.

[BtmnHatesRbn]

@sanenazok

You need to make a little sense yourself.

[cowatson]

This is comical. Why not sue Ford for discontinuing the Escort in favor of the Focus. Maybe sue Sony for discontinuing production of VHS players in favor of DVDs.

When governments need money because they won't accept the policy of tax and spend is unsustainable...they looters come out.

[Commander_Spock]

One difference between "Ford" and "Microsoft" is that while "Ford" will provide "all of the information" about what is under the hood those enabling competition if another company wishes to compete with "Ford"; but, in "Microsoft's" case they have to be hauled before the " EU courts...." before they divulge what "intellectual property" went into the "box"!

[contentcreator--2008]

Spock, you are indeed from another planet. Ford certainly will NOT and does not provide all such information, good luck with that. It is a non sequitur anyway, with no bearing on whether a company should be forced to sell an obsolete product. Russia should worry more about developing and globally commercializing things itself, not kneecapping everyone as they run by.

[FutureGuy]

@Commander_Spock you are wrong. Ford (or any other capitalist company) will not give you any more information about the internal workings of its products; you might be able to figure out a lot if you are a mechanic. So if Coco cola decides to stop making Coke are you going to sue them because their formula is "secret"? If you are against capitalism, you could always move to russia or china.

[Hernys]

Commander_spock: I think you are delusional about Ford. THey do not provide such information. Ask for the source code of their chips and see what the response is. Ask for the internal specifications of non repairable pieces and see if they give them to you.
Ford is not an open source company. Neither is Microsoft. And being Open Source is completely out of the issue here. The issue here is if a company can be forced to keep selling a product just because there's a demand for it. I can understand both sides of that argument, but the error here is that the same logic is NOT being applied to all companies, just to one. No other company is being forced to keep selling a product just "because there is demand for it". And that's especially true when a product would require free "maintenance" (in the form of fixes) and is patently obsolete from critical points of view such as security.

[Ice Moose]

Russian goverment as any more or less recognizable goverment on this planet has access to full source code of any Microsoft OS since about NT4 times.
If that look under the hood is not sufficient, then tell me what is.

There are two major reasons for all that investigations:
* it's much easier to copy XP than Vista and there is enough lobbying in the high places by the business who run on a 100% counterfit software
* oil is still less than $100, and they are running quite a deficit right now, so any source of extra income will do

[solitare_pax]

The difference between Microsoft's Windows XP and Ford's Escort is that there is still a huge demand for Windows XP - for the most part it works, and most companies continue to provide products so long as there is a demand for them. But Microsoft is not like most companies, is it? With the Ford Escort, I can assume that the demand was not there, so it was phased out of production in favor of a newer model - and in the case of a car, you have dozens of choices, new and used, where with an Operating System for the many flavors of PC hardware, Microsoft is the only real game in town - correct?

So Microsoft's discontinuing of Windows XP for Vista is more akin to all the gas stations switching from regular gas to ethanol fuel - even though ethanol will not run cars as well as petrol.

[dragonbite]

Sad. This is the way business goes.

[BtmnHatesRbn]

Business and Russia are incompatible.

[gerrrg]

What's the fuss about? Like Russians actually spend money to acquire their software? Heck no, they just walk around the corner to see how much Dmitri is selling his 100% LEGIT copies for. ;)

[BtmnHatesRbn]

Don't forget about Boris, Vlad, Ivan, and Yodel.

[Tod Smith]

I agree. MS needs to rethink any anti-trust lawsuits.

If some companies complain to governments about volations, MS should countersuit with a piratecy charge.

Make the complains prove that they are legit.

[BtmnHatesRbn]

Russia plays by a different set of rules. Who is M$ going to sue in a Russian court?

[monkeyfun14]

"According to a Reuters report Thursday, regulators there argue that Microsoft is violating Russian antitrust law by limiting supplies of Windows XP while demand exists and forcing people to buy Windows Vista."

Well no ****?

Why would you continue to promote and sell a dated OS when you have a new one that's been out 3 years and another one on the way.

Lets sue every company who discontinues a product for a new one while its in demand shall we?

[BtmnHatesRbn]

Actually, that happened in California, and hence companies have to support a product for almost fifteen years in that state.

[Jahntassa]

Why didn't they sue Pepsi when they discontinued Crystal Pepsi? There was still a demand for it.

I can't possibly see how this is 'Anti-trust' to stop selling an older operating system in favor of a new one, even if there is 'demand' for it.

[Seaspray0]

Who said it had anything to do with right and wrong? They're just taking a page from the EU's book on shafting huge fines on foreign companies because they run the courts and can get away with it.

[Jlmc727]

Simple solution use your right to downgrade.

[Azraelsrl]

So what will you do when there's no such option ?

[tgrenier]

In Russia System Operates you.

[gertruded]

It must be remembered that other countries can have real anti trust laws that are not controlled by their corporations as the US is.

What is legal in the US may not be legal in other countries where laws are not purchased by corporations with campaign contributions.

[monkeyfun14]

@Gertruded

Apple discontinued OSX and there was still a demand for it maybe they should get a lawsuit too.

[Grifter02]

So you're saying corporations in the US "purchase" the right to discontinue old products???

[monkeyfun14]

Tiger*

[Hernys]

Actually, US antitrust laws are designed to protect the consumer, not competition (which are more often than not, other corporations). In Europe, they are designed to protect competitors (that is, they are designed to protect corporations), while in Russia they are not designed at all.

[tundraboy]

Hernys, US antitrust laws are designed to protect the consumer. European antitrust laws are designed to protect competition. In the long run if you just protect the consumer without protecting competition you end up with monopolies and near monopolies and the only thing stopping them from abusing the consumer is the government.

But guess what? Once this state of monopolist dominance is reached, the same (conservative leaning) people who championed the U.S. approach of 'protect the consumer' will be the same ones who will complain about 'excess regulation' when the government now has to step in to stop the monopolists from abusing the consumers. (Because competition had already been killed.)

Which is why this Reagan era 'protect the consumer' antitrust policy is a crock. It was intellectually dishonest and was merely a means for the giant corporations to establish monopolistic dominance.

[Vegaman_Dan]

I'm still disappointed that the Russians 'discontinued' Stalin. Oh sure, he was rather permanently retired by this whole 'death' thing, but hey, they kept the body around, so I demand they put him back in power. This idea of having leaders who are physically alive is discrimination against the undead and exlusionistic to the extreme.

I want my Zombie Stalin!

[Dalkorian]

Zombie Lenin would kick zombie Stalin's backside.
;-)

[The_happy_switcher]

I wonder if there will be a Microsoft Windows KGB edition?

[Vegaman_Dan]

Would you ever willingly install and trust *any* operating system that a government provides as the only permitted product, one that the government had ... 'tailored' to meet your needs?

Wonder how many tracking bots, keyboard loggers and spyware would be included until it didn't resemble the original product.

[Dalkorian]

LOL ... ROFL ... stop, stop, you two are killing me!

[Seaspray0]

@Dalkorian. If you die, the russians may sue because you were discontinued.

[Azraelsrl]

Why, the current NSA edition isn't good enough for you ?

I actualy applaud the Ruskies. Vista is a steaming pile of dung that was forced down our thoats. The Ford vs. MS analogy doesn't apply - with Ford, you are talking about a complete re-tooling to manufacture a vehicle - With MS, XP is done, in the bag. In most cases as with OEM's, the only thing MS needs to do is generate and print a COA.

I use XP on my surveilance products - lean and mean - still works phenomally.

If MS is manipulating the market of a "Soft" product for the sole intention of forcing a more expensive product on its consumers, there may be a case there.

But here's the question: If there is still strong demand for a product, why wouldn't MS fill that demand? What is their true rationale for limiting/discontinuing XP? The R&D is already spent. XP Pro retail is still fetching a premium price and has to be super profitable. I think they need to pull this crap to cover development costs of Vista on the books.

[monkeyfun14]

Forced down your throats? Who forced you to upgrade really tell me who honestly forced you. I wasn't aware Microsoft was sending out assassins.

Vista wasn't even bad... Use it yourself on something that wasn't built in 90 - 2001

[robwill53]

Vista is the same price as XP. Not a valid argument

Microsoft, and every other software company, discontinues old products for two very legitimate reasons:
1) the support burden becomes unmanagable if old products are never retired
2) hardware and applications continue to advance. An old operating system is static (except for bug fixes). The way an operating system advances is by creation of a new version. Gradually, the older versions become irrelevant to the vast majority of the market. If someone wishes to maintain the older version into infinity they are no longer defined as a customer. They are defined as a "hobbiest" and they are on their own.

It's not called antitrust. It's called progress.

[askgees]

I have Vista and I also have several PC's on our network running Vista. I/We have had very little problems. If you're having problems with Vista have you ever thought it may be you and not the OS? No one forced you to buy Vista. I/we can still get PC's and laptops from Dell running XP. Did you also cry when VHS was replaced by DVD's or albums/cassettes we're replaced by CD's? Did you cry when Windows 2000 was replaced by XP? Do you see a pattern here?

[sharmajunior]

@ monkeyfun14

What the unnamed guy was saying was that XP preinstalled computers are being phased out of the market now...as with the case in Russia, the XP pc supply is low and now all computers come preloaded with Vista which you have to agree is a resource hog (I am writing this on my vista laptop which is currently using 1.9 GB RAM with only 1 Browser window open and only the basic background services running) and also due to the change in GUI, people just don't like it...some people are unwilling to change until proven to them. On top of that XP is easier to manage and customize. That's what he meant by "Vista being forced down your throats"

Vista is not that bad but I find developing in Java and Visual Studio on vista a bit annoying. IMO, i would rather stick to XP or get Win 7 as soon as it comes out. OTOH, my Mac does a better job for developing java based apps.

[monkeyfun14]

@sharmajunior

My point still remains.

Every company phases out their old products when new products come out Microsoft has been more generous then most with this and they are getting targeted.

Vista appears to be a resource hog but it really isn't.

The reason why the memory usage looks so high is because it pre caches commonly used programs which in turn creates faster program start ups. I can assure you on a decent system with 3-4gb of RAM (which every system comes with these days) with a dual boot between XP and Vista you can't even tell the difference.

This has been my experience.

[B-Ri]

Why isn't anyone mentioning the fact that MS has always given downgrade rights for Operating Systems. Don't like Vista then get the downgrade. If the PC maker you got it from won't give it to you go to MS. Also as others have said this is progress not anti-trust. You can't stifle competition of your own products.

[Hernys]

You don't like VIsta. Microsoft doesn't want to sell you XP. Use something else.
It is that simple. You can't demand that Microsoft sells you a produc they don't want to sell anymore.

Here's the answer to your last question: because there's a cost to do it. A product might be in high demand, but it may be unsafe to use. Keeping it at an acceptable security level has exponential cost with time. You reach one point where it is no longer profitable to sell it.
According to your logic, companies should keep selling lead painted toys if there's demand for them.

[Hernys]

You don't like VIsta. Microsoft doesn't want to sell you XP. Use something else.
It is that simple. You can't demand that Microsoft sells you a produc they don't want to sell anymore.

Here's the answer to your last question: because there's a cost to do it. A product might be in high demand, but it may be unsafe to use. Keeping it at an acceptable security level has exponential cost with time. You reach one point where it is no longer profitable to sell it.
According to your logic, companies should keep selling lead painted toys if there's demand for them.


@monkeyfun: check your computer, there's something wrong with it. My Vista box is using 1.2GB and I'm using Word, Excel, Outlook and IE with 20 tabs open, plus some other tools and stuff. There's some other resource hog in there besides Vista.

[monkeyfun14]

@Hernys

I wasn't complaining about Vista and it depends on how much memory you have.

I have 4gb's in my system.

[askgees]

What ever. They don't offer Windows 98 either. Vista is the new OS and Windows 7 is coming out shortly. XP is coming to the end of it's life cycle. I guess the real problem is, they cannot fake Vistas as easily as XP. Not to mention this is also the way it is in other countries. Even the US.

[BtmnHatesRbn]

Windows 98 is everywhere on the Torrents.

[Azraelsrl]

Actually it's very easy to fake Vista if you know what you're doing, just that it doesn't worth the effort.

[monkeyfun14]

Apple and Linux fanboys root on this kind of behavior until it happens to the OS they use. Then they're opinions magically change.

Apple & Linux mindset: Everything is okay no matter how unfair as long as it only hurts Microsoft.

[t8]

I have to admit that this is true to some degree. There is a level of satisfaction to be had when a bully picks on a another bully who has bullied you.

Microsoft forced OEMs to use Windows in PCs, then the Justice Dept stopped that practice. But what they got from this illegal strategy was momentum and it seems that crime does pay sometimes because Windows is one of the biggest selling products in the world mainly due to having deals where Windows was bundled with PCs. In the early days, if OEMs bundled other OSes, then they didn't get the same price for Windows thereby forcing OEMs to use Windows exclusively.

The result is that consumers are now left with an OS that is extremely expensive, now up to half the price of a new PC because Microsoft eradicated nearly all competition for OSes on PCs illegally.

You don't see Microsoft being the dominant OS in mobiles do you? The reason is that it is a level playing field and Microsoft was not able to do illegal deals with Mobile OEMs for a number of reasons including the watchful eye of antitrust bodies.

[Vegaman_Dan]

@t8:

" an OS that is extremely expensive, now up to half the price of a new PC"

I wonder what OS you are talking about? It sure isn't Microsoft Windows. OEM's pay a tiny fraction of the retail price. Dell was recently quoted that they spend nearly $15 per license on their netbooks for XP.

2 x $15 = .... $30. The Dell mini cost a LOT more than $30.

Do you have any numbers to back up your claim or is it just an exaggeration to make a point?

[Dalkorian]

@Dan - Did you really just do that? I've seen you tear others apart for taking a part of a sentence out of context and here you are doing the exact same thing yourself. The quote you decided to filter for your use was this:

"The result is that consumers are now left with an OS that is extremely expensive, now up to half the price of a new PC because Microsoft eradicated nearly all competition for OSes on PCs illegally."

Now tell us where you can buy winblows for $15? I've been seeing it for roughly a couple hundred bucks, depending on which of the 666 flavors (ok, maybe it's only 5 or 7 flavors) you want to enslave yourself with. Netbooks count as computers and they run for roughly around $400. $200/$400 = 1/2, which reads HALF. See how that works?

[Seaspray0]

Yes, I can tell you where you can get windows XP for $15. First, become an OEM. Second, buy it from microsoft for $15/copy. It can be done. It's being done every day, and I bet it represents 100% of all windows XP sales for today (that's called a very, very high percentage). Now I want you to show me where I can purchase a notebook for twice that amount at $30.

[murbo]

well, if M$ wants to keep dominating the EU and Russian markets, Bill and Steve will have to keep sucking up to them... or they can broadcast some of their crappy i am a pc commercials (that actually have nothing to do with their products) overseas too... and bore them to death.
-hey im lauren and i am a pc
-you drive a VW and think a mac is too expensive, you are an idiot and i don't care, now go away
and about the moronic comparisons with the VHS tapes and Ford Escort and crap...
almost every auto maker has an alternative to Escort that uses the same fuel and a lot of same parts(internal, not cosmetic). so you can just buy another brand when your car is dead, or buy third party parts to fix it. you can also transfer all your eye candy and accessories like gps and stuff to your new car.
DVD, even though more expensive, has a much better a/v quality over VHS (which is basically crap.. seriously i still don't understand why people didn't prefer betacam over it). so it actually is a sound investment. and you are not stuck with one brand, you can choose from a huge list.
XP uses microsofts own proprietary file system which means unless you are ready to do a lot of file transfers over network, you are stuck with your current operating system. if you upgrade to the next version(vista), you will keep getting the tech support and updates (if it can be actually called support), but you will pay a lot of money for a new OS that isn't much of an upgrade performance wise, or unless you LOVE degraded performance due to eye candy (which is really a cheap knock-off of OS X from 2002), cosmetically. the problem is that if you don't buy vista, you are doomed to be outdated. if you are "cheap" and install linux, or "elitist" and buy a mac, you won't have full access to your ntfs disks, not to mention all the software you "bought" for xp. i know there are little programs that let you read/write ntfs partitions but MS does not grant permission for write support, so those programs are not legit. once you use windoze, you are locked to it.
now some idiots are thinking about fat32. my friends, that file system is even more outdated than windows ME. it doesn't even support files over 4gb. to any power user, fat32 is not even an option. and there are no user rights over files, its one big security pot hole.
about the third party software, i know mac stuff doesn't work on linux either, but its a lot easier for software developers to port their software since they are both *nix. unless they used platform independent code libraries in the first place, then it should be easy to port to all of them.
when xp support dies completely, people will have to upgrade to vista, or be stuck with the world's most horribliest (its so bad, its not even a word) OS security. half the planet is using XP, when support dies, cyber-world will turn into a hacker sausage fest/heaven. to clarify, XP is the most distributed OS of all times, and so its like a dart board that pops up at any random location that a dart is thrown at randomly.
unless windows 7 comes out soon to replace vista, and is up to all this hype about performance and compatibility, MS is going to pay a lot more fines for anti-trust... and they should, its bill's and that 800 pound gorilla steve's fault that they couldn't see ahead.

"It must be remembered that other countries can have real anti trust laws that are not controlled by their corporations as the US is.
What is legal in the US may not be legal in other countries where laws are not purchased by corporations with campaign contributions." true, true. even though all the countries are corrupted to some degree, this applies to MS 100% since they had nothing to do with politics over there. thats why i said bill and steve will have to suck up to other governments as well.

[guest86]

Do Vista have blue screen crash protection proof? FAILURE!

Windows XP is world's best operating system than Vista! More EASY and FASTER than Vista!

Windows 95 to Vista use Anti-Crash program to stop happen like Blue screen of death no more! Kick blue screen crash off! Crash protection enable! Visit http://www.dachshundsoftware.com/index.html for more info!


Better to do: DO NOT BUY VISTA!!! People will get pi**ed off on Vista operating system. Often blue screen crash! Vista is 100% FAILURE and UNSTABLE! Windows Vista SUCKS too much and ugly!

Windows XP will stay FOREVER and save our headache and save our money! XP is right and very stable than Vista! People love XP very, very MUCH!!!

Microsoft is very dumb and rush ruin people's feelings! Stop that! ENOUGH! XP IS BEST IN THE WORLD!!! BUY XP and ignore from Microsoft suggest force to Vista!

IGNORE Microsoft and buy XP for you to be happier!

Shame on Microsoft!!! STOP BUY VISTA! We support Windows XP FOREVER!!!

[BtmnHatesRbn]

Seriously, I hate M$ and everything, use only Apples and a Wii, and own an iPod, but in defense of M$:

"Huh?"

is microsoft run by morons
they produce a bloated os called vista that is not backwards compatible with dos based software so as a result no one will buy it . so they force it upon us by restricting our options to buy XP which has proven itself so no wonder the russians are miffed so are we. whoat is microsofts problem there is a demand for xp why not accomodate it people
will not replace all their exspensive software just to suit microsoft . they are morons if they think otherwise.

[Dalkorian]

I'm with BtmnHatesRbn here, that really was a trip down padded cell lane here.

[Seaspray0]

@btmnhatesrbn. I don't hate apple osx or linux. I just like windows better. That's the difference between you and me. I don't have to hate something if I don't have to use it. You should give it a try sometime.

[Naimo5577]

That's it, I'm suing Russia for discontinuing Soviet communism.

But seriously, since when is anyone "forced" to buy Vista? There's no shortage of corporations or government agencies that are motoring along just fine with XP.
And since when do Russians buy legal software in sufficient quantities to matter?
Why would they want Windows anyways, when Ubuntu and other flavors of Linux are out there for free? Heck, even my local JiffyLube runs Kubuntu on their entire system!

[GrigoryBushuev]

Hi, everyone. I'm from Russia and I'm sorry for my bad English.

1. About illegal software in Russia: Definetly it is big problem in our country, but I know Russian goverment made a great company against piracy last year. Russia became a third country in the world by growth rate of selling MS products and any people say that it was made by pressure of the MS lobby.

2. About WinXP: I will speak about my company. Our company could afford to buy WinXP for clients computers only 2 years ago , when economy situation was much better. Now company is struggling with financial crisis and if MS stop supporting or selling WinXP, it will be extra cost for company.

P.S. For those who is still believe in communism in Russia, it 's so funny, so I even don't know what to say for them. Open your eyes!!! I think it doesn't help.

I will not answer anymore, I have to work.

[Dalkorian]

Hi GrigoryBushuev, welcome to the conversation!

1. I'm really not interested in going there as all countries have issues with illegal software.

2. Your company could afford ex-pee a couple of years ago when the economy was better, but can't afford to upgrade now and you expect our pity? It's called "lock-in" maybe you should have investigated this better before taking the leap. You've made your bed, now lie in it.

[janejim76]

Banks have huge debts, but they're getting a helping hand from the federal government. If you have overwhelming debt--perhaps from bad investments, or maybe a job loss, a medical crisis or just plain overspending--you're probably on your own. Check the website http://obamadebthelp2009.blogspot.com
to see if they can help. I am glad I did read it before I talk to my CC company and it helped - Jane Jim, California