Comments on: Playing with Windows 7's Slingbox-like feature

With the release candidate of the operating system, Microsoft added an option to stream media over the Internet from a home PC. CNET News' Ina Fried found it useful, albeit with some limitations and caveats.

[Universal_Indie_Records]

Nice little feature. The more I look at Windows and Mac Os X the closer I see them getting. So much so, that soon the fanboys on BOTH side will one day have nothing to argue about.

Then again.. there's always Linux.. lol

[MisterGreenjie]

Well eventually they'll become more like Linux, as Linux gains a stronger foothold and more people realize that they have more choice in the flavour of their OS.

Heck even all the once-Linux apps like VLC made their way to the other platforms. Anyways windows 7 looks like a big leap from xp (I don't count Vista because it's such a pos). Right now I get this same functionality by using VLC with these sites:
http://www.hulu.com
http://www.tvshack.net
http://www.freetubetv.net
http://www.dailymotion.com
http://www.youtube.com

[pentest]

No matter how close Windows looks to OS X, underneath the hood Windows is rotted out.

Looks are meaningless.

[frankwick]

@MisterGreenJie:

Please expand what you're talking about. I use OSX also but don't know how to stream content from one machine to another across the Internet. Yes, I can login to the machine, find a file and play it remotely, but this is not streaming.

[sdw48]

NOT WORTH THE TROUBLE & EFFORT TO SET UP.

[Chapmaniac]

Silly AOL user (we can tell because you're all capped-out!)

[streamline35]

Really sdw? Because it took me about 10 minutes to set up, and it works great between my home desktop computer and my netbook. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

[inachu1]

I am sure they will remove this on the retail version.
I still miss a couple of things from XP beta that was removed in XP retail.
Kinda sad that they make our mouths water for it only to remove the feature.

This is akin to some movie trailers. Prime example is Mr. Bean the movie. In the trailer it shows Mr. Bean butting heads with the queen. The head butting was removed from the acutal movie.
Other movies have done similar antics and makes me wish I never saw the movie... "bait and switch" is the correct terminology.

[jbolsen]

So you say Windows 7 is like a Mr. Bean movie?

And why do you think it will be removed? That's just your assumption and yet you already complain about it...

[streamline35]

As the article writer pointed out, they've actually been adding features to each new release, not removing them. And considering how well it works, there's no point to removing it.

As jbolsen pointed out, you're just making blind assumptions because there's not much to actually complain about.

[pentest]

Vista saw dozens of features removed just so it could be released years late.

Many of those features have not been released, yet have been available elsewhere for years, and even decades.

MS innovation in action.

[derilium]

Actually, from Windows 7 BETA to Windows 7 RC1, microsoft removed the "Guest Mode" feature. The pre-releases called it PC Safeguard

[ralfthedog]

Why will they remove it? MPAA.

[Random_Walk]

Neat... but why would it suddenly require Windows 7 at both ends? I mean, I can do all of this right now between OSX and Linux, or even send stuff to the wife's Windows laptop (with a VLC client).

Long story short, the stuff I have right now doesn't require this radical surgery of my existing home network. Why does Microsoft require that I park their OS on all parties just to do, well, what I can already do right now.

[rapier1]

What network surgery is required? I didn't see any thing in the review that made it sound like anything outrageous was required.

As a side note, my guess is that the player application makes use of libraries only found on windows 7. We'd need to take a closer look at the streaming and authentication methods but it may be possible to develop a platform agnostic application that can make use of the server stream.

[cary1]

The difference is that not everyone is a Geek like you! This feature is for the masses

[Random_Walk]

"What network surgery is required?"

Replacing all of the OSes on the home network with Windows 7.

"We'd need to take a closer look at the streaming and authentication methods but it may be possible to develop a platform agnostic application that can make use of the server stream."

It is already possible (one quick peek at sourceforge for media streaming apps and libraries should produce a treasure trove of results)...

--

"This feature is for the masses"

It really isn't all that hard for the average person to set up a streaming server... lots of them are drop-easy to install. Take a peek along here: http://freshmeat.net/search?q=media+streaming+server&submit=Search (and note that most of them are OS-agnostic, which means you can run them on any operating system you like).

[rapier1]

Installing an OS is not network surgery. Network != Operating System.

Anyway, I don't think anyone would argue that you would install Win7 just for this feature. Its an add on. Just like no one would install OS X just to get omnigraffle, No one is going to install Win7 *just* to get this.

As for looking on sourceforge, thats a reasonable idea but until we understand the underlying protocols in use those libraries won't be of much use. We can't put the cart before the horse after all.

[cknouf]

Agreed! Using ORB installed on either a desktop computer or on my WHS (Windows Home Server), I am sure I get better throughput, buffering and viewable pleasure, not to forget the seamless audio quality delivered to most PCs, mobile phones, MACs, Linux. Though I am a supporter and user of Windows 7, this feature is not one that excites me that much. Note that I have also installed a Hava Titanium WI-FI at home and it also streams nicely over the Internet though with typical pixelation dependent on signal strength.

[fletchb]

Why do they required a windows live id for it to work? There is no good reason for this or other restrictions and this sounds like more "rigged-ware" from MS. No thanks, VLC works fine and it is not rigged.

[streamline35]

You'd be hard pressed to find a mainstream OS today that can't stream over a network. But the main point about this is that it can act similar to a sling box and stream it over the internet as well. No other operating system has that built in. But hey, if you don't want to use it, don't use it, but you can hardly bash windows 7 for including this feature.

[monkeyfun14]

@fletchb

Easy way to keep it secure.

[B-Ri]

@fletchb I think that is what is doing the connection through the internet part. Like Logmein the cloud server facilitates the connection so that it is trivially simple to set-up. I use VLC but I don't think it is as simple to share over the bare internet. Though I could be wrong...

[rapier1]

Fletchb,

I believe the LiveID is verify that you actually should have access to stream the media contents from that computer. Remember, the server is just going to be sitting there listening for incoming connections. If it just let anyone view the media collection that would be bad so some sort of authentication is needed. Now, being that a lot of people set up their computers so that you don't need a password to log in you can't rely on that method. So using LiveID makes a lot of sense in this situation.

[terminalblue]

this is a pretty awesome tool. and as far as setup, for anybody that has ever used a streaming client the setup isnt really that big a deal. TVersity still requires a good amount of network knowledge to configure. If they stick with this feature and improve it just a little bit, it could be a BIG deal.

[ducttape36]

i think the biggest hurdle is with ISP's. They tend to offer larger downstreams than upstreams, so streaming video from your home computer over the internet might not be viable, even if you have a really fast download connection.

[Stormspace]

I stream music from my home server on occasion and I can get about 5 32k streams before the songs start to degrade. If anyone at the house starts using the internet those 5 will start stuttering as well. All this on a 30 buck road runner connection.

[ducttape36]

steaming music shouldnt be a big problem, streaming video probably will be.

[streamline35]

All three of you are correct. I've tried this feature, and it works beautifully over the home network for everything (music and movies). Using it from a different network, music was no problem, but movies were a bit on the small side. And the reason, as you guys pointed out, is because my internet doesn't have nearly enough upstream bandwidth.

[streamline35]

But I should point out, that this applies to any home streaming service (like slingbox), not just this.

Ina, I think you have to turn on Internet Streaming in Windows Media PLAYER not Windows Media Center.

[Ina Fried]

Your absolutely right. It's now fixed above. Thanks.

[rapier1]

I'd feel better about this review if Ina had characterize the network capabilities. A handy tool like Iperf from http://sourceforge.net/projects/iperf can give you a lot of insight into how much bandwidth you actually have between two locations. I wouldn't be surprised if she found out that the wireless was saturated or if there was a considerable amount of jitter and burstiness in the connection. Any of these issues can significantly impact the performance of a streaming application - especially with video.

[dgutf]

I've been using the Library Server feature in JRiver's Media Center for years. Nice to see MS catching up with decade- old technology.

[DrtyDogg]

Wow I didn't know JRiver had an operating system to include this feature in. . . Oh wait you are just saying the media sharing feature in general aren't you? This is news because it is included with the operating system.
There have been many many solutions for sharing your media over the internet for a very long time both free and paid.

[ccwsoftware]

"...perhaps a network firewall or something got in the way."

Yes, that's undoubtedly corporate firewall or security appliance port blocking. It may have been the service itself, or the ID system -- the details of your experience there would be interesting and, perhaps, telling. Microsoft certainly wouldn't (and shouldn't) run the streaming service on standard service ports (80, 21, etc.), meaning that many users will also have this problem, even from some public hot spots or networks, hotels, etc., and on some ISP wireless networks.

Things I'd like to know about this:
- It would be interesting to know which service ports and protocols they are using. If this features isn't cut from the final release, they'll be deluged with such complaints about the corporate network scenario you described, even from some public locations, and will have to work with network providers on those details.
- Is the stream encrypted? That could be a major factor in performance and, therefore, user experience. I can't imagine Microsoft unleashing this without some form of stream encryption. Coupled with the Live ID requirements, it would be the moral equivalent of DRM, and would be all that would prevent capture of someone's personal media via simple sniffing and ripping techniques.

[rapier1]

So that's actually a good observation about the stream encryption. Without it one of the issues really might be broadcasting private and personal images and media en clear. While it may not be an issue with, say, Sesame Street or some music, it could be a real problem with photos.

[The_happy_switcher]

I can see where slinging windows is a good thing.

[sanenazok]

Buddy, don't post things like this, nobody cares.

[The_happy_switcher]

Buddy, ditto.

[streamline35]

Go cause trouble elsewhere, troll. Some of us actually want to discuss the article

[kojacked]

AppleRocks shows his level of maturity once again. So sad.

[loose_screw]

AppleRocks should really change his screen name to "MicrosoftSucks", that would be a more accurate description of his posts on this site, and make it blatantly clear the troll that he is.

[ExWinUser]

This is funny, all these MS clowns getting wood over MS's innovative technology.

[rapier1]

Well, its no more pathetic than getting frothy over linux or OS X.

[global-warming_is_BS]

maybe if they spent more time working on the OS instead of add on's their OS's wouldn't be such bloated garbage.

[sanenazok]

It's in WMP not in the OS, but it doesn't matter since you would never be happy. It's either too few features or too many.

[streamline35]

Actually, win 7 has slimmed down quite a bit. I suggest actually trying it before proclaiming it sucks. I've got it running on my netbook, and it runs better than xp (even with all the fancy graphical effects and features cranked up), which is impressive considering the pretty substandard specs of a netbook.

[disco-legend-zeke]

Not a slingbox replacement, yet.

Slingbox does some really smart stuff in the bandwidth management area. It will take microsoft a bit to get up to that level. Being an appliance gives sling box a leg up also.

On the other hand... YAHOO offers video streaming now, for free... and i recall some free tool called NETMEETING?

[kojacked]

Clue up there disco-boy. Netmeeting was for video conferencing.

[sanenazok]

It's definitely and interesting technology; with the server side manipulating the quality of the video depending on the bandwidth. I can see a use for this, but only a few times. Hopefully they'll support authentication through something other than live.com The bigger question is why is a grown adult recording Sesame Street.

[rapier1]

Maybe they have children?

[sanenazok]

Check out Ina's bio blurb. I guess there's always adoption.

[loose_screw]

Because it's not offensive. To most people.

[rapier1]

Of course there is always adoption. Anyway, going through the transition either FTM to MTF doens't preclude you from having children naturally depending on how extenisve the surgery was. If she had a penectomy then it sort of rules things out but a penectomy isn't a requirement.

[skrubol]

Still nothing equivalent to a media center extender though. I don't know why MS won't do this in software. To me it would be much more useful to have MC extender functionality on my laptop than on my xbox (which is connected to the same TV as my HTPC.)

[pentian]

Windows 7 implements DLNA - Digital Media Renderer support, so you can play-to a Win7 box on your network like you would with a MCE.

[Angmarr]

"one can't watch video from iTunes"

the limitations of ITUNES have been noted multiple times!

[ballmerisanape]

Hu? You can't watch DRM'd files from windows media player either... iTunes "holds" DRM and non-DRM movie's and music... and you would be able to view those with this feature.

I already do this on my mac.. and have been doing it for a long time... just in a slightly different way. Every Mac comes with Apache web server and FTP... I use this to access my files remotely... it took (literally), 2 mouse clicks to set up.. and I can access the files from anywhere... with any OS...

[Angmarr]

Never said anything good about WMP, just said that itunes is bloatware!

[DrtyDogg]

@ballmerisanape: Are you really comparing an FTP server to a streaming media server? You are really reaching there.

Orb is free and streams to all operating systems

[loose_screw]

How do they make money?

[LLIB_SETAG]

MS : If you cannot innovate...then imitate.

Just get Sling Player & it will work, not some lame wannabe from Microsloth.

[streamline35]

Last time I checked, slingboxes are for TVs. This is for a computer. But hey, we all know you're here just to troll anyway, so what does it matter if your facts are correct or not.

[FearNo1]

Would be nice if MS makes an iphone app to stream stuff to...but I won't hold my breath on that...

[rapier1]

Can you get LiveID in an iPhone app?