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This oddly reminds me of the Microsoft get the facts campaign against Linux, which failed miserably and now we have interoperability because that is what Microsoft customers ultimately wanted -- systems to speak to systems without the nuances of proprietary lock ins.
Microsoft does some things incredibly well, and pitching themselves against an under-dog is not one of them.
Yes, they know that the Mac can be more expensive than the PC (and is often fairly comparable), just as a BMW/Merc/Audi/Jaguar/<insert your own equivalent here> is more expensive than an equivalent Toyota variant.
But leaving the argument there demonstrates a failure to understand why people are prepared to pay more for a Mac, if necessary... or queue up in rainy wheather for an Apple product launch... or buy an iPhone despite all its as yet incomplete or unavailable features... and so on.
Yeah but macs are not akin to BMW/Merc/Audi/ or Jaguar
The only thing macs have alike with them are price.
When if comes to ability, macs are so fricken limited! They can do some simple, stand alone things well but throw collaboration in the office or some hefty professional programs and they hit a brick wall. And then they tell you run Windows in bootcamp in order to do work. So why bother to pay extra when you wind up using a "PC" and NOT OSX?
They have peaked and are actually LOSING market share again.
And Ina is helping them by repeating rather than looking the simple facts of which Apple has none.
Apple is not losing market share. Please keep your falsehoods to yourself.
Apple hasn't come up with a response to these Microsoft ads on the air either. I don't expect them to either, but it sure would be fun to have both companies going after each other like that.
It was a good attempt to troll, AppleRocks1963, but I'm afraid you didn't succeed very well.
If you had a business that literally tripled in size and sales over just nine years, and had put more money in the bank than your largest competitor, one would think that you're doing very well, no?
Let us not forget that even in hard economic times, this same business has only bothered to lay off a trivial amount of people, while its largest competitor had to jettison 5,000 employees and faces even more trials to come.
One company is rising, while the other is beginning to deteriorate to the point where they cannot hide it from anyone anymore. Take a wild guess at which is doing what. ;)
For 3 years all Apple did was try to bash on MS, inaccurately and quite falsy most of the time.
Apple had the biggest marketing campaign of any of the hardware vendors....
What drugs has apple been feeding you lately?!?!
I beg to differ. It was 1500 and a possible 5000 over 18 months. So far, just the 1500.
What was said in the Apple advertisements that was false? Despite the fact that they were ads and were not to be taken too seriously, I heard nothing false.
"But the fact remains: Microsoft, instead of ignoring Apple, has spent hundreds of millions in ads that directly go after Apple. By doing so, they actually lend credence to Apple's claims in its spots.."
To date Apple has spent more on their Mac vs PC ads than Microsoft has spent in their entirety for Apple-focused ads such as you refer to.
Kinda makes one wonder, doesn't it? Good point you bring up, but it applies even more so to Apple.
the majority have always bought those cheap plastic notebooks
based on sticker Price n e way
But Mac buyers know better and will continue to buy Macs
because we care about quality
So what exactly is the Microsoft campaign doing ?
I dont get wats so different now than wat it was 2 yrs ago
the prices haven't changed and the quality still hast improved
other than enforcing Apple as a high end choice
and annoying a few Apple Fans
MS hasn't really hasn't achieved much really
they have also embarresed themselves yet again with all the mistakes they've made see the Lauren ad
MS is now basically doing Apple's Job for them !
You don't suppose Apple is artifically inflating the prices of any of that hardware, do you? I mean, my motherboard replacement really was worth about $500... right?
Have you actually ever even seen a Macintosh? Really, no lies now. Go to your local Apple store and pick up a MacBook Pro and then go pick up a Dell. If you can't tell the difference in quality, you are either blind or on the payroll of Dell.
By "dumbed down" you mean simplified. That's a good thing friend. Do you really want things complicated when you are trying to get some work done? You sound like you were approaching Mac OS like it were Windows. This is a problem in our world where so many people were subjected to Microsoft's idiocy for so long. Any computer can have problems connecting to WiFi. My MacBook connects when most of the people around me have HPs and Dells that won't connect or even see the router!
I use mine in my lap all the time and it's very cool most of the time. But if I were to start utilising a lot of CPU power, of course, it's going to heat up. That's what laptops do! You only used it for 8 months. More likely, you used it for about 8 hours, or 8 minutes.
That's called sarcasm! many mac idiots have lost all ability to think even slightly deep.
Bill Evans and the rest of the ******* patrol think they are cool, that's the point. They dont get it. They are the few kids at school who think they are elite and better, but the rest of us are laughing out ***** off when they simply dont get it. WE DONT CARE, AND NO YOU'RE NOT COOL! It doesnt matter if you spend more and talk alot to many people about how cool you are, it doesnt make it so. You're still not worth any more than you produce. And for Mac users, they are simply online alot, blogging, and dont really produce or collaborate with many.
Um movies and photos and DVDs (oh my) - wow that's digging deep. How about serious professional editing like AVID or working with large files in CS4 in 64 bit or 3ds max, or Autocad... oops OSX cant do that (can only use 32 bit for those programs).
Or maybe you want to use your 2 graphic cards in SLI of Crossfire mode. Oops thrown at OSX, swing, and a miss!
Virus software like FREE AVG, so expensive isnt it?
Yeah Windows user have issues but we are actually funtioning, well and doing things mac users cant.
While the rest of the world is doing what? Working, functioning, virtualizing sessions of our PCs, replicating them, backing up while running, etc..
Quality my ass, it's style at the expense of actual utility and protectionism so they can sell you their marked up junk!
Yea, "think different" means nothing if you cant think for yourself!
Really? You connect when others cant?
I've seen the exact opposite!!!
In fact I regularly have issues with macs that cannot connect to WPA or WPA2 connections and can only can only connect to the simply and less secure WEP connections.
Wow its amazing how little "simple" mac users know but can sure blog alot.
You go man! Please stay a mac user, as you obviously only run into "simple" situations.
Dealing with anything slightly complex might blow your mind!
I regularly connect to a WPA2 Personal router, no problems. I use WPA2 at home. And half the WiFi routers my friends and colleagues use is also WPA(2). When I travel, I connect to hotel routers without difficulty while my colleagues (that invariably have a Dell or HP) have issues. And most of the time I've been travelling, I've been using a PowerBook G4 from 2005. And these computers were supposed to have a weaker ability to connect because of their aluminium body! Any time I couldn't connect, no one could.
(Please refrain from personal attacks.)
To me a Computer is a complete Pakage the integration of Software and hardware
with Pcs Apart from the plastic overheating hardware there's also the incompetence of Microsoft to deal with
just see the no. of Bug fixes MS did this week alone !
Windows Tax is something I'm not willing to pay for !
I'll gladly pay more for a Mac and get a seamless computing experience instead of being a save to my computer
and
before I get another long list of flaming replies from the likes of jabberwolf and Co.
Just see any customer satisfaction survey or Quality surveys for the past 5 yrs
Apple has always Topped the list while others a far far behind !
that alone goes to say a lot about the quality of Pcs and Windows in general !
hell we have entire sector of IT and security specific industries to deal with all the Windows problems !
That's a tax I don't wish upon anyone.
that's why bootcamp exists
ahaha
so true. If apple didnt make it illegal (according to UELA) to use OSX on non mac hardware, people would sell dual boot computers that would be extremely cheap and still "just work"
That's a defeatist attitude. I won't use Windows if I don't have to. I've brought my own computer to work at times, just to avoid having to deal with that piece of crapware. Bootcamp was enabled to entice more Windows users to the Macintosh. To putting Windows on a Macintosh is like putting Chevrolet parts on a Mercedes-Benz, but hey, if it brings people over to the Macintosh, I guess it's okay.
@sythara
As I've said a hundred times before, if you could get an el cheapo computer to run Mac OS X well, then you would have a majority of the short-sighted people out there doing just that. And then you would put a huge dent into Apple's profitability. And if Apple isn't making a profit any more, how will they be able to afford keep making computers and software, and other hardware? It takes money for R&D. You, like people commenting on a story yesterday, are trying to make Apple a software-only company, just like Microsoft. That is ridiculous because Apple is also a hardware company primarily. They also don't have 80-90% of the market share in OSs either. That model would not work for Apple. You would be killing the golden goose. Stop and think for a minute.
If you could install Apple on any hardware it wouldn't "just work". That's why apple won't let you do it. Apple fans talk about how stable Apple is but that's comparing apples to oranges. When you control the hardware you have less variables to deal with. Windows has the expectation to run on any hardware. Often stability problems are caused by the hardware drivers - something not actually written by MS. Does windows crash sometimes? Yeah, but I prefer the freedom to configure my hardware exactly the way I want. Because of competition between hardware vendors I can get a barebones system with a quad-core processor, 1TB drive and 12GB of RAM, plus windows ultimate for $1200 (a deal on tiger direct recently). I just looked at the apple store and a quad core mac pro cost $2,500 with only 650GB drive and only 3GB of RAM. For the additional $1300, I can either buy a second machine, deck out the one machine even more, pocket the money or buy a 52-inch TV.
So you keep telling yourself that macs are better because they are more stable, but know that macs would be nowhere near as stable as Windows if OS X had to run on any hardware. Apple does it this way to control their image, so they can appear better and elite. But they won't give up the control, and that is why they will never have a dominant market share.
I hate to point this out, but both Linux and BSD run on more hardware platforms than Windows, and they are both more stable than Windows, so that claim is bogus. Windows is unstable by design; Microsoft traded the stability of the system for the extra speed you can get if you preload the entire OS upon startup. Quite frankly, it really isn't worth it.
Difference between Microsoft and Apple - Apple provides hardware and Microsoft doesn't, so they are hard to compare in some respects.
I would close business for the sake of my face.
and Apple isn't closing down any time soon
Yes, because having more cash in the bank than Microsoft right now is such an embarrassment. It also must really suck to have a business that has tripled in size and sales over the past nine years. I'm very sure that everyone in Cupertino is positively red-faced over the utter failure of nearly dominating the consumer music player market in the space of just two years...
And it should be noted, when you say "6%" (and it is actually hire then that and has tripled in 5 years) you are talking about the OS....if you look at it from computer manufactures (Lenovo, IBM, Dell, etc) apple has a much larger market share then those cheap plastic boxes someone else mentioned...yet they sell...so it is obvious that you really don't understand business or this market specifically....you seem to be more of "Fanboy" then anyone else....
So please go educate yourself on the market and business in general and you would appreciate what apple has accomplished over MS in the past 5 years....
Actually Mac marketshare is very low and falling while Pc marketshare raises once again.
As as for shutting down Apple, perhaps you should look at the profits of companies in the PC industry. Apple has billions in the bank, no debt and a product range that many seem to want to copy/imitate. Apple long gave up the marketshare battle to Microsoft. This is a company that has found a profitable niche and is quite content to let Dell, HP and Acer battle it out in the low margin markets.
Will you please stop with all these outright lies?! Apple's market share is increasing, not falling. Just read something besides your comic books, will you?
It's a clear sign of a Windows fanboy (God I hate that stupid word!). They will ALWAYS drag out that tired old, irrelevant term, "market share".
As for 6%, honestly, 6% of global computer sales - that's a damn good business.
Now you don't want me to mention the iPod/iPhone do you? (No, I thought not)
Last i checked, its the Macs that comes with Cheap looking plastics!
and what power!!??
Macs have aluminum cases, useless, but at least they are pretty
and all software for windows is compatable with macs, just use bootcamp.... which brings the question on why would you want to use mac in the first place.
Again with the lies!?
Apple isn't "Double the Price" [sic]. "Not compatible with many software"? That's such a misguided, broad statement, I don't know where to begin. Yes, there is free antivirus out there, but a majority of people go for the commercial versions.
The last statement by you proves you haven't looked at a modern, recent Macintosh in months. Ever hear of the Core i7? Apple was the first to bring it to market in a desktop. And Apple continuously uses higher-end chips in all of their computers. Look up the actual specs, don't just go by clock speeds. If you find a Wintel computer with the same exact chip, same exact memory, and same bus speed for half the price of a MacBook (Pro), I say go for it. Have you seen the new all aluminium MacBook and MacBook Pro? How many other manufacturers are making laptops out of a solid block of aluminium? Make direct comparisons, think.
So it's you sending all the spam?
No, antivirus doesn't solve any security issues on the PC side. Keeping the system patched, and not installing any random nonsense you encounter is also pretty helpful. This is good practice on either Mac OR PC.
I don't know where you're getting the Mac prices from, but Apple aren't charging double the cost of a PC.
Anyhow, the whole advantage of getting a random virus - unless you do something stupid - does get solved with an Antivirus.
And kcotham ... LOL -
dont just think, make your thoughts practical!
omg a fricking aluminum block, i dont see much innovation in that. P.s why dont you show me a mac with those awesome specs for ... oh lets see less than twice the price of what a PC with the same specs sells for.
Ever played a REAL game on a mac, if you EVER did you can get the same game on a PC for about 1/2 price
"Maczombie", is that your new favourite word? If milling a case out of a solid block of aluminium is so simple and easy, why haven't more manufacturer's done this? The advantages are that it saves energy and materials (aluminium being easily recycled), the case is much stronger and not any heavier, there are fewer parts, and is fully recyclable.
Look up the specs for a MacBook Pro. Google it, look it up on Wikipedia (decent article with plenty of specs), contact Apple, etc. Then I want you to show me an HP, Dell, Toshiba, Sony, etc. that's the same. Then compare the prices. It is NOT going to be twice.
I did a comparison like this when I was searching for my MacBook (early 2008 model) and prices were +/- $200 of the MacBook. I'd go to a manufacturer's web site and see a laptop for $500. I'd say, "wow, that's fantastic". Then, I'd look at the specs, not anywhere near that of the MacBook. I'd configure the machine to match the specs of the MacBook, and what do you know, it would be within $200 of the MacBook then. I did this for every manufacturer I could find and the results were always the same. Nothing has changed. And that is just a hardware to hardware comparison. That's not taking into account all the things that one has to put up with Windows. I put a price tag on the headaches. I use a Macintosh because it is practical and easy to use. If I want headaches and want to tinker, I'll borrow a friends Dell.
Now, your obvious preoccupation with games shows you to be either a little teenage boy or someone with too much time on your hands. Games are not the end-all to most people Angmarr. And to say that there aren't any games for the Mac OS, is a falsehood. There are more games for Windows, yes, but more doesn't equal quality. There have been many a review that says that when a game does get ported to Mac OS X, it's a much better experience. Why? Possibly because the game has been out on Windows and the gameplay bugs have been fixed. Also, only the best games get ported. That and the fact that most Macintoshes have better graphics cards standard than most PCs do standard. That's not to say that you can't build some super-duper, extreme gaming machine. I've seen some impressive gaming machines. But most people do not do this. Drawing on extreme examples from the edges of the bell curve will not prove anything.
If you are please show me links that show cheap macs ... with something like Core 2 duo; 2 gig ram; a good graphics card for similar prices as pcs. Im talkin about less than or around $1000 laptops. I would really like to see these!!
Im not a huge Pc fan as you may think, but mac "bull s_" annoys the hell out of me. If you show me facts I'll shut it, but as far as I see neither you nor any other mac fanboy has yet to do such a thing..... wonder why
And as for headaches, Ive heard some mac headaches from macs too.
Apples crash! Apple sticks you with their substandard hardware! You cant even change half their batteries. Come on you coolaide drinking media. Get with it. I would take the headaches associated with microsoft any day over those associated with apple. I will never miss macs mice, I will never miss the out of memory errors that supposed g4 towers would give right before they came to a screeching halt.
But why not just do the right thing and download a good linux distro. Then you dont pay either tax.
most people are suspicious of Free things
no idea why, but oh well
Number of in-the-wild Windows malware and variants since 2001: millions.
Number of in-the-wild OSX malware and variants since 2001: One trojan that required the victim to enter his admin password.
Given the comparisons, I'd think that OSX has literally proven itself multiple times over.
"But why not just do the right thing and download a good linux distro. Then you dont pay either tax. "
Unless you buy most models and brands of laptop. Then you're stuck with buying a Windows license whether you want one or not.
Once apple gets bigger (and thats not IF, thats when) more viruses and security holes will start showing up.
"Out of memory errors"?! That's hardly a hardware fault is it? (Also sounds more like Mac OS 9...) Mac G4 was rather a long time ago, maybe you want to take a look at a modern Mac - things have moved on.
But yeah, a well made PC with Linux is a great solution. Mind you, the "well made PC" often looks more like Mac prices...
I can only think of two Macs that don't have removable batteries - the MacBook Air (to get it so thin) and the MacBook Pro 17" (to get the long battery life, and long battery duty cycle). I'll admit I don't personally like the design choices made in the MacBook Air (but it is very thin).
I'd disagree on the hardware comparison, Microsoft has attempted to provide hardware such as with the Zune, which obviously did not do well when pitted against the iPod.
I think the comparisons here are very similar to the Audi / BMW debate. Audi brought a 42,000 car to the table, BMW issued a "check mate" with a 64,000 car.
As a mac user, I would be the first in line to purchase a Dell or Lenovo upper tier laptop if I could run OSX on it. From my perspective this is very much a debate between two operating system vendors. In Microsoft's defense, I can run Windows on a wide array of hardware and I am not locked into apple hardware.
With Apple hardware I am left to a single vendor's opinion as to how my computer should look and perform. A great example of where this fails the consumer is in the middle tier group. There's no legitimate desktop solution in between the Mini and the Pro which you can buy without having to buy a built in screen.
http://www.scoobyblog.com/2006-08-09/advertising-fight-audi-vs-bmw-vs-subaru
Yes, BMW claimed checkmate with their mightiest 3 (the M3). But the 6 cylinder A4 is 40k while the 6 cylinder 3er is 33k.
The article is about PC and Macs not iPods and Zunes. I never said if Apple providing hardware was a good thing or a bad thing. You disagree with my hardware comparison point but then you give the schpeel on how one is tied into Apple hardware.
For the record, I use Linux on a ThinkPad. As another user remarked I'm not paying either tax.
But, as with most things, given enough time the tables will undoubtedly turn again. Nobody gets to stay number one forever.
Back in 2006, Toshiba made an awesome MP3 player, called the Gigabeat S. The critics loved it (including CNET.)
Then Microsoft decided to release the first Zune. Sight-unseen, all the Apple fanboys (including here on CNET) hated it. The Zune quickly got a "bad rap" on the blogosphere (mostly by people who have never actually used the Zune,) and has never been able to shake off the negative press.
Of course you might guess the punch line: this Zune was simply a re-branded Gigabeat S. Same manufacturer (Toshiba), same hardware, different label. Yet one got praise, the other condemnation.
Unless you bought it second-hand or by some miracle bought it direct from IBM w/ Linux pre-installed, you paid for a Windows license when it was bought brand new.
... ROFL. Yup. Security... Mac was the easiest to hack into OS at a competition where there was actually a prize for doing so. In the real world there is nothing worth stealing on a Mac... yet. They're too small of a market share to waste time on for a low return.
Stability: Have you ever tried actually putting your Mac to work? You know, doing rendering, gaming (what little you can) etc? Oh wait... that's not Mac's fault when it crashes, but it's because it's a PC if it happens on that platform.
Power: Do I really need to comment on this? Paying more for equivalent or older hardware that you can't easily upgrade?
Mac's are a perfectly fine system, but their arrogance is going to be their downfall when they actually get enough market share to be worth targeting. They're way behind the game on countermeasures.
The contest you are referring to is not one I would base a conclusion on for the state of security with the Mac. All of these botnets running wild and being used to spam and distribute denial of service attacks are running which OS again? I can't quite recall...
Those are minor annoyances and hackers are after credit card info not to spam ads.
security by obscurity
how could I possibly build a botnet with no computers to zombify?
its possible, but its harder to do
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10154662-83.html
The Macintosh and base Linux kernel operating systems have dominated the top spots for vulnerabilities by operating system over the past three years
You Windows fanatics keep pulling up that hacking competition. Read the entire interview. It took a lot of preparation for him to be able to hack into that computer in "seconds". And it all depended on a user clicking a malicious link.
You stated "Michichael", "Have you ever tried actually putting your Mac to work?" And then you immediately listed "gaming". You can't be serious and obviously aren't credible. I've experienced very few application crashes, most were Microsoft Office, and I can't recall a single time where the OS crashed and I lost data. That has NOT been my experience with Windows machines. They crashed, and locked up at random. And I would have lost lots of data had I not learned to save my work every 5 minutes (learned that by using Windows). Crashes can happen on any computer because software is never completely perfect. But because of the way *NIX systems such as Mac OS X are designed, when an application crashes, it doesn't bring down the entire computer.
*sigh, the falsehoods. Compare specs of individual machines and you will find that Macintoshes use chips that are either on par with the competition or are newer, faster versions. Taking that into account, the prices aren't much different. "can't easily upgreade?" What are you smoking? Have you opened up a Mac Pro lately? It's exponentially easier to upgrade that machine compared to a generic Wintel machine. Sure, the iMac and Mac mini are more difficult, but so are any other all-in one units made by other manufacturers.
I do agree with you on one point however. Apple needs to be more proactive in thwarting malware.
If you are so confident in your Apple products, then let them stand on their own merits. They don't need you to defend them unless you feel that they need your efforts. Just let things go.
It is only an ad campaign after all. If you get your undies in a twist over something as simple as an ad campaign, then you have a lifetime of wedgies ahead of you.
We have been doing that for decades''
"If you are so confident in your Apple products, then let them stand on their own merits. They don't need you to defend them unless you feel that they need your efforts. Just let things go. "
A lie repeated often enough...
"It is only an ad campaign after all. If you get your undies in a twist over something as simple as an ad campaign, then you have a lifetime of wedgies ahead of you."
Quid pro quo I guess, WIndows FanBoys can get in a lather over the Apple ads.
No, more like successful at converting more to Apple.
Are you sure you don't treat apple as a religion and don't worship the gods of OSX?
There are those of us that have been labelled as "Mac fanboy" and other stupid monikers. The truth of the matter is, I couldn't care less if you choose to subject yourself to Micro$oft and its third rate products. But I do care when you Windows fanboys (hate that word, sounds dumb doesn't it?) spread out and out falsehoods. There are people out there that don't know the truth. I merely, and I hope AppleRocks is too, am trying to educate you and others of the truth. If you want to call me and AppleRocks1963 names, fine. But the truth is the truth and 99% of the Microsoft hype is just that, hype, half-truth, and out right lies.
I guess given how many PCs there are to choose from, if you choose a Mac then that choice is something you've really considered - something important to you. So is it any wonder that Mac users are quite vocal?
There are a lot of Mac users whose choice isn't "pro-Mac" it's "Anti-Windows" - they've don't Windows, and not enjoyed the experience. Smoke a cigarette next to an ex-smoker, you'll see the same reaction, for much the same reason.
So no, this isn't "Microsoft hitting a nerve" this is simple human nature. Mac users are different - they have chosen the minority side, for various reasons, they aren't stupid (well some of them clearly are... but that's true of any group) they aren't even especially "weird", they've just made a choice about their computer that most people haven't made. Mac users are unusual - but they are less unusual nowadays than they were, this is a trend that Microsoft are worried about.
Actually I think Microsoft are looking at the wrong group - they should be targeting the big group of "refuseniks" (no, not the Linux guys) the users of Windows XP. It is this group who represent the biggest danger for Microsoft.
Thanks, you demonstrated the point perfectly. If you were confident in Apple's ability to produce a product that can stand on its own, then you wouldn't be spending so much time defending it. If you believe what Apple is saying about their products is a lie, then that's another issue altogether. I don't believe to be lying though.
@AppleRocks1963:
How do your troll comments convince *anyone* to want to swtich to a Macintosh? I mean really, do you think people who read your comments are going to think, "By gosh, I want to be like him!" ?
Seriously, you're not helping there. You are your own worst enemy when it comes to getting anyone to respect what you comment about.
@kcotham:
" But the truth is the truth"
Wow. I'm rather surprised you said that with a straight face. :)
the reason we need to defend them is because of all the ignorant MS shills
who go around spreading lies and half-truths about Macs
The majority of these people have never touched a Mac let alone use it
yet they feel the need to constantly bash them for some odd reason !
--1--
you might be trying to educate people
I don't agree with you, but you do use things like "logic" and "reasoning"
like Penguin when he still was "flame warring" with the other cnet commenter
but saying that Applerocks is doing anything else but trolling is sorta pushing it
If what Applerocks was the only thing I went by when considering purchasing a new computer, I would not touch a Mac with a 10ft long pole.
I don't know what his "true" personality is, but Applerocks sounds like an elitist snob to me and a lot of other people in his comments
--2--
all fanboys spread lies be them Mac, Windows, Linux or, whatev
Macs do absolutely nothing that I want. A PC does everything I want. A PC keeps me gainfully employed with my high paying software engineering job. A Mac would look cool with all of the other unemployed slackers at the coffee shop. I will stick with the PC.
Plus I can get a more powerful PC if I spend the equivalent amount of money that I would have spent on a Mac.
"A Mac is no bargain when it doesn't do what you want." I said."
Neither is a PC.
Plus that first Mac was underpowered compared to my last PC, yet the Mac performed and the powerful PC didn't.
But to say that a Mac will do absolutely nothing that you want, just tells me that you aren't being completely truthful here. What could you possibly be doing that a Macintosh could not do? And then there's the "unemployed slacker" comment, that doesn't lend any credibility to your other statements at all.
Sorry, I had to needle you. I'm a Mac fanboy (what a stupid term, boy I hate it.)
I've been using Macs and PCs since the mid-80's (actually, PC's longer). The back and forth arguments in these comments are completely and totally useless. Use what ever computer you choose. Educate yourself when you can as there is a lot of inaccuracy in statements from both sides of the aisle.
I have owned Macs since 1987. Not by choice, originally. When I first sat down at a Mac, I wanted to know where the C: prompt was. I thought they were stupid toys because I couldn't see what was happening "underneath the hood". The reason I had to use them was because I was hired to finish development of a database using Omnis 3 for the Mac. I was partially converted from that point on. I pretty much use them exclusively, now. Any PC I have is used only to test software I've developed on the Mac for the PC.
Historically, everyone of my Macs were either resold for close to what I purchased them for or are still with me and in working order. The PC's I've had were usually given to someone if they were still working or just tossed as junk. Currently, I have two Macs and never have any problems with them nor have I ever had a bad Mac. I also have two HP Laptops - both of which I have problems with. The sound card on one is apparently shot so I'll have to get myself a USB replacement. The other one has a problem with the motherboard - won't even start to the point where I can enter CMOS - and I'm going to sell to one of these companies on the internet that buy broken laptops. The HP that won't start up is just a little over 2 year's old and the one with the bad sound card is just past 1 year old. The sound card died just after the warranty.
As far as OS's, there are things I like about Windows that I wish were in Mac OS X and things in Mac OS X that I wish were in Windows. I haven't had problems with either OS crashing on me. I use Windows Vista SP1 on the remaining HP. Both of my Macs are running OS X 10.5.
As far as claims that PC's are easier to upgrade... yea, as long as it is a tower or mini-tower. It also depends on which logic board is in it. I used to build PC's for a living. But I never kept a PC for more than a year. After a year, it was time to upgrade to a better logic board with more features and the ability to install a better processor because the logic board had a faster bus than last year's. But to tell the average person that they need to build their own PC and install Linux is, well, stupid. Not everyone is able to build their own nor would be able to easily use Linux. By the way, Mac towers are just as easy to upgrade. There was even a time when you could get processor upgrades as well. I don't know if this is true now as I've quit dealing with that aspect and haven't had the need to anyway because the Macs I have, even though outdated, out perform the PC's I have with Vista installed on them.
I don't know why I am bothering to even post this other than the arguments here are by people who either don't use a Mac or haven't used one long enough to actually know anything about them or by Mac user's that have used PC's and just got tired of dealing with all the sh*t you do have to put up with having a PC.
1 mobos can actually last many upgrades, if the CPU upgrades are at the end of the line (like sckt775), there are still upgrades like
a more RAM
b better graphics card
c more HDD space
d better cooling
e a higher performance processor of the same socket (unless you already have the fastest possible)
f even more stuff (you should know all the rest since you built PC's once, right?)
2 cmos? don't you mean "where I can enter the BIOS"
3 logic boards are for Macs, the term you were looking for was "motherboard" or "mobo"
4 you had 2 hp's, hp isn't exactly known for reliability, all my thinkpads are working pretty nicely with Win7
5 "C: prompt", maybe it was called that once, but for as long as I known about the command prompt, it has been called "command.com" "cmd" "command line" or "dos prompt"
6 I challenge your Mac (however high end/expensive) to my $600 budget gaming PC to Crysis, 3dmark, super pi and f@h
LOL, let's not forget the "Mohave experiment".
The most outrageous claim in the whole white paper is that Windows 7 is going to close the gap and supersede OS X. I have played with Windows 7, and while slicker graphically, it's still really comes down to it being Vista with a better paint job. It is no OS X killer.
If it squawks like an albatross, walks like an albatross, it's still and albatross.
its much faster than Vista
driver support is excellent
DirectX 11 vs DirectX 10 [even though we can't use 11 yet, hurry up nVidia and ATI]
Windows 7 is better than OS X 10.5, if that stays the same with 10.6, we'll see
of course, then next release of Ubuntu will be better than both [99% sure]
And I've used Ubuntu 9.04 and 9.10 and they are OK, not really windows/OSX killer.
Oh and I challange all of you apple fanboys to get Direct X working on OSX.
Microsoft themselves stated that Windows 7 is going to be more of a case of streamlining and slimming down Vista than a rewrite. Not unlike Apple saying that Snow Leopard is more of an effort to enhance Leopard than introduce new features. And to think that Windows 7 is going to be anywhere close to what Mac OS X is now, let alone what it will be this summer, is pure optimism.
I have "played" with Windows 7 and it's still a dog. Of course, it is a beta, but still a dog nonetheless.
It's obvious you guys are avid gamers, you always bring up DirectX. *rolls eyes OpenGL is the way to go anyway.
Lol what?
I think you got that backwards as those were Apple and Microsofts mission statements totally swapped around.
What are you babbling about? I never mentioned anything about a "mission statement".
DirectX is far superior to openGL for gaming
DirectX was made specifically as a game API, openGL was not, and that really shows
openness isn't the only thing that makes an API good
So I don't really see any hidden costs. My antivirus is free, I use Gimp and OpenOffice, which are both free... the only other cost was SPORE! which you really can't count a game as a hidden cost, but it's been a fantastic little laptop and I have no complaints.
Amazingly, it's never crashed, never bluescreened, never been infected with any form of virus, no trojans, no spyware, no adware or malware. It just works!
More power to all the people switching to Macs... let Apple deal with those idiots who click NEXT through every installer without reading! Sooner or later they will FUBAR a Mac and the cycle will repeat.
I'd agree if you don't think before you install stuff there is always a possibility you'll hose your system - that's true on Windows, Linux and Mac OS X. But I really don't understand the Linux guys who have a problem with the Mac. Seriously, Mac OS X is more like Ubuntu than Windows (Mac OS X even has X11).
My other computer is Ubuntu.
Oh, and did I mention that a $600 DELL notebook can run OSX without any problems?
I agree suporman. I no longer provide tech support for my friends and family that choose Windows. I tell them, "sorry, you bought it, you figure it out, buy a Macintosh next time". I bought one so that I wouldn't have to deal with the headaches.
*sythara
It's "Congratulations". And how is his unwillingness to troubleshoot Windows being elitist?
*sound4film
You are correct, Mac OS X is better than Windows. But you are incorrect in saying that Apple hardware "sucks" and is "overprices". You get what you pay for in this world.
" I no longer provide tech support for my friends and family that choose Windows. I tell them, "sorry, you bought it, you figure it out, buy a Macintosh next time". I bought one so that I wouldn't have to deal with the headaches"
" You get what you pay for in this world."
Yes indeedy- and it sounds like your friends got a real 'prize' when it comes to your sympathy and support. What a great friend you are! You'll surely endear people to you with that attitude.
I think this is a great example of the elitism aspect brought up earlier. If you wanted snobbery and insulting egos, you don't have to go any further than kcotham's comments right there.
Why do I say this? Because Mac buyers don't a) spend hours building, tweaking and configuring their computers every year, b) install anti-whatever software and their updates every week and constantly approve routine OS operations, c) constantly search the computer ads and online for the next great incremental-boosting piece of hardware to put into their works in progress, with the attendant driver updates and restart headaches (talking about YOU, gaming junkies, and your NVidia/ATI obsessions), etc., etc.
Obviously, if productivity was important to any of you, you might also decide to use Macs rather than PCs, because the Windows platform binds you up in time- and energy-wasting activities that Mac owners simply find appalling. So go ahead, bash Apple for making life simpler for the 9-10 million of us who aren't obsessed with being computer technicians or rock gods of gaming. For us, it's worth the money.
It's not snobbery. I've been tech support for my friends and family for years and years. And it has ALWAYS been because of the shoddy design and engineering from Redmond. Every single time these people had problems, I would show them that if they had been running a Macintosh, they would not have had this issue, or they could have solved it themselves in a minute. But they continue to buy the cheapest thing out there, thinking they are getting a deal. So, after 10-20 years of this, I've cut them off. They will learn by doing what other Windows users without tech-savvy friends know. That hours online to India isn't fun and could have been avoided.
By the way, Apple trounced their nearest competitor, Gateway, in a customer satisfaction survey.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10222213-37.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-5
Making personal attacks against my character (which you know nothing about) does nothing to tell us you are such a great guy.
we joke about endless drivers but it usually isn't that bad
some games are just crap with tons of problems, but most of the time, I can simply download the game from steam and expect it to run perfectly fine
- by iptofar April 16, 2009 1:01 PM PDT
- Choose.
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- by pithenumber April 16, 2009 1:26 PM PDT
- actually
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- by monkeyfun14 April 16, 2009 1:39 PM PDT
- @iptofar
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- by sythara April 16, 2009 3:01 PM PDT
- A car is a car. If you buy a big, fancy, expensive car to compensate for something you're lacking, then go ahead.
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- by blinkdt April 16, 2009 6:08 PM PDT
- @iptofar Yeah, you just keep repeating the myth of the "great resale value of the Mac" and maybe it will come true. My friend just dumped her "plastic" Macbook for $600. She paid over $1,800 for it. 'Course, after a year or two of use it DID look like crap (but it sure looked purdy when she bought it, didn't it?). So up yours, you tool.
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- by go_live April 16, 2009 7:09 PM PDT
- @blinkdt - Mac's higher resale value is a fact. I know cause I have experience selling them. Just because your friend got taken does not dispel the facts.
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- by Vegaman_Dan April 17, 2009 8:37 AM PDT
- @go_live:
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Showing 1 of 3 pages (211 Comments)BMW+Mac
Windows+Ford Taurus
Apple should give the chick the mac pro and let her use it for six months. Come back and ask her which one she likes better. If she likes the pc, sell it on ebay and show her that her mac was still worth almost what she paid for it where the pc is worth almost nothing.
its should be
BMW+Mac
Corolla+Ubuntu/Windows XP dual boot
I'll take the second option please and thank you
cheap and reliable, what could be better?
The BMW and the Ford both get me from point A to point B one has a fancier shell and a higher price tag.
I'll stick with my Nissan, thank you very much.
Oh and did you know that Lexus is a Toyota?
"Mac's higher resale value is a fact. I know cause I have experience selling them."
Well, there's a difference between pricing them and actually selling them. Products are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them. Based on the number of very high priced used Macintosh laptops on eBay with no bids at time of closing, it would suggest that there is a bigger difference between their resale value and their actual resale price.
To go back to the car analogy, I happen to think my Ford is worth easily $8K, but if I end up with only getting paid $2K for it, then that becomes the real price.