Comments on: Windows 7 beta upgrade won't be easy

Microsoft says that it wants people to go back to Vista and upgrade from that to the upcoming "release candidate" version.

[shamarty]

Vista sucks and Mac's are too expensive. Is there a good computer for a good price?

[Lerianis3]

Vista does NOT suck. Actually try USING the OS, and you might change your mind. Don't rely on the reports on CNet, HardOCP, etc. They are too freaking hung-up on benchmarks..... THEY DON'T WORK CORRECTLY UNDER VISTA! (repeat as necessary until you get the message)

I realized benchmarking didn't work correctly under Vista when my bargain laptop benchmarked as twice as fast in graphics as my gaming laptop, with a discrete graphics chip! That's when I realized "Something ain't right here!"

[greho]

That's funny, cause.. well, it's not funny, actually. You see, I have software I need to use for CCTV systems.

It's IE-ActiveX-based, and it's very slick and works really well -- with Windows XP.

But Vista and it's nanny-state UAC breaks the software, that is, if I can even get it to install without completely shutting down all the amazing security stuff in Vista that is supposed to protect me from.. myself, apparently.

Add to that Microsoft Genuine Advantage Spyware (TM), I mean.. Constant Activation and Irritation (TM).. I mean.. Treat Me Like a Thief (TM)

And then Microsoft gets accused of stealing the software activation mechanism from another company.

You get the idea, I think.

[d3vildog69]

I wouldn't say it is easier for newbs, but it is getting MUCH better to install software. I have always preferred using the terminal to compile. Cause it looks Cool :p

[cayhorstmann]

Hmmm....I am running the beta of Ubuntu 9.04 right now. Here is what I'll have to do when the final version comes out later this month: Select System -> Administration -> Update manager from the menu. Click on update. The release version will be installed. What is it that the crazy dudes at Ubuntu know that Microsoft doesn't?

[monkeyfun14]

Idk why can't the dudes at ubuntu make a system where I will never need to touch the terminal? I would like to just install a app without compiling it.

[tm_anon]

@monkey

Funny, I've been using Ubuntu 8.10 for three months. For every app I've needed, I've either found it through synaptic package manager or I've found a .deb file (equivalent to .exe on Windows) ready for it. Maybe you should try using an OS before making claims about it.

[Lerianis3]

cayhorstmann...... this is one time I agree with an alternative OS person. What in the WORLD does Microsoft not get that we do NOT want to have to 'use workarounds' when we are betatesting things. Simply allow the thing to install over ANY copies of the OS on the system, PERIOD AND DONE WITH!
Even if it's a Windows 7 'tester build' like I've downloaded from Mini-nova.

[cayhorstmann]

monkeyfun14...You don't need to use the terminal to install software on Ubuntu (Select Add/Remove from the main menu for a GUI). You certainly no longer need to compile anything. Give it another try--it has come a long way. Software installation in Ubuntu is now quite a bit easier than on Windows.

[monkeyfun14]

@tm_anon

I have the nvidia drivers that were suggested were old and slow when used with OpenGL I then had to goto nvidias site download new ones and had to compile it myself something that will have a average computer user scratching his/her head. Then I needed to update java same thing by that point I just abandoned it.

[d3vildog69]

oops posted the comment on the wrong post :/

I wouldn't say it is easier for newbs, but it is getting MUCH better to install software. I have always preferred using the terminal to compile. Cause it looks Cool :p

[king_geore]

Sorry but anyone that would use a pre-release of any software for mission critical work deserves what they get; it's just stupid.

[Lerianis3]

Excuse me, but it is not people who are doing this on 'mission-critical' systems who they are worried about. It's people like myself, who are CONSUMERS who put this on systems that we CANNOT clean-install JACK ON, because we have too much on those systems and don't want to install ALLLLLLLLLLLLL our software again.
Microsoft should just f'ing FORGET about this 'minimum version' bull, and stop playing their damned games!

I'm tired of it (not tired enough to switch, their OS's are STILL the only choice for gameplayers like myself), and this might just push me towards telling other people who AREN'T gameplayer....... Hey, BUY A MAC!

[Dr_Marten]

Lerianis3. Look for DBAN on GOOGLE or your favourite search engine.

The wipe the hard disk entirely using that, then install whatever OPERATING SYSTEM(s) you want.

:-) ;-)

[Lerianis3]

No, simply put, this is NOT ACCEPTABLE! We are not going back to Vista (most of us CANNOT without a complete re-install!) just to upgrade to the Windows 7 RC build. PERIOD!

Microsoft had better damn well change their tune on this, or they are going to lose a heck of a lot of beta testers from now on. I don't see where they say that you would have to do a 'clean install'.... but I'm betting the idiots are going to make it the same way as Vista betas. Once we get to the RC stage..... clean install or go back to XP (which is not acceptable!).

Personally, I REMOVED the backup files that I would need to go back to Vista, because I thought.... hey, why keep them on there! Windows 7 works great for almost all my applications, so why keep them? Plus,, the 'leaked betas' will GLADLY install over an earlier beta.

[monkeyfun14]

Why did you not dual boot it? It would of solved all these problems and the installation would of took the same amount of time.

[Lerianis3]

Because 'dual-booting' would waste a lot of space on my hard drive! I am NOT wasting all that space, forget it! Not to mention that I have heard some 'horror stories' from people who thought that they were installing it to 'dual boot'..... and wiped their primary partition clean! Sorry, not taking that chance.

As I said, it is time for Microsoft to stop playing their games of 'minimum version or won't install!' Had that problem when my one PC flaked out and I need to re-install Vista.... but wait! My original Vista with no SP discs wouldn't do an upgrade install...... because I had SP1 on that computer.
They are just making this stuff much more difficult than it needs to be!

[rapier1]

You are a fool. They said the beta would expire in August. What if they hadn't released a new version by then? You have *no one* to blame but yourself.

[d3vildog69]

I usally agree to what you post Lerianis3 but... it was pretty short sited to install a beta build w/o a back up.... Its says when you download it to not use it on a system you normally use. or (Mission critical) work...

[jscott418]

So far I have been very pleased with Windows 7. It has to be the most stable beta I have tried in a while.
Of course the small percentage of windows haters will be vocal about it, but who cares!
As we can see, Microsoft can stumble and make a pretty good comeback when it wants too.
It is interesting to see all the negative feedback I have been reading on Linux running on these netbooks. Its interesting to see a older operating system like XP be the preferred OS on these netbooks. This shows a couple of things. One people still want and need Windows. Two, Linux has not provided enough compatibility to a windows world to convert many over to a OS that does not really provide a good experience for the average non geek user. This is unfortunate because as we know Unix is a big part of Apple's OS and so we know a different OS can do well in the consumer's eyes. Its just the lack of a commercial status to Linux has prevented Linux from doing better. Yes, the very fact that its open source is not the problem. The problem is, Linux needs to be more commercial. Just look at Red Hat. Linux needs a Red Hat like Linux company for a consumer desktop and it does not. Sorry Linux I still see no future for your in a desktop for consumer's.

[Dr_Marten]

Maybe not on consumer desktops but LINUX is doing well as being the HOST operating for servers and lots of websites are run on these very same LINUX servers.

:-)

[jinsyracuse]

sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

Come on... someone had to throw in a Linux reference.

[rapier1]

Which is great as long as you aren't a) doing it remotely or b) replacing gcc. make world anyone?

[Ted Miller]

Well....If it will make it easier to manage files like a computer operating system should....Well... Okay.

NOT!

[Mark_Anderson]

I see. Windows 'sucks' because it has an open Beta programme and an open RTC programme.

So when can I expect to see the same for Snow Leopard?

Hmm?

[Lerianis3]

Actually, they do this same thing. They send their OS out to 'beta-testers' before it comes out, but since there is such a tight clampdown on the hardware, they don't have to do as much testing.

[ikramerica--2008]

And OS X 10.0 was open too. .mac was free as beta, too. so was bootcamp. apple offers free betas for new technologies. but snow leopard, despite the claim it's a new OS, is an incremental upgrade, so have a public beta for it would be a disaster. better to only release it to developers as a beta and save the headaches.

[greho]

You can also expect Snow Leopard to come out on time. Unlike Vista, which was delayed endlessly as Longhorn was taken apart and put back together before it ever went beta. Of course, you can always join MSDN and get all the beta goodies you can eat. But I presume you mean "what can I get for free."

And don't think MS hasn't taken the hint from the clockwork schedules of other companies (not just Apple). Notice how hard MS is working to meet a market expectation that Win 7 will hit the shelves before Christmas. Even when MS itself has issued NO RELEASE DATES whatsoever. I would reckon that the next big release from MS, even if it's a service pack, will be no more than 18 months after Win 7's release.

Mac OS will probably be up to 10.7 by then... Symantec will release two more versions of Norton... Hell, even MS Office will be re-upped next year, along with Windows Server.

[gegen4]

Is it possible to upgrade from Windows XP??

[monkeyfun14]

No can you upgrade from to Vista from windows 98 or 2000?

You shouldn't be surprised.

[Lerianis3]

It will be with the FINAL version of Windows 7 (supposedly). It isn't possible with the RC build.

[Dr_Marten]

I bet you will be able to upgrade from WINDOWS XP.
:-) Wait and see.

[seespottype]

It is extremely unusual for complicated products like an OS to provide upgrade paths from beta to GA. I think sites like CNET has a responsibility to warn their readers.

With a little prep, you can make it through the transition. The key is make your data files OS independent. Partition your hard drive, creating a partition that is exclusively used to hold your data files only. (Windows 7 libraries actually make this very easy to do). Now it doesn't matter what happens during your OS upgrade, your data files are safe. As a bonus, you also have the only place you need to back up (as opposed to the confusing myriad of folders under Documents and Settings). Also, keep your installation files on this drive, so you can reinstall all your programs when the OS drive is wiped.

I'm not dreading the Windows 7 upgrade at all. I knew it was likely I'd have to put Vista on - I'm sure CNET editors knew it too.

[cayhorstmann]

It is NOT unusual to have upgrade paths from a beta to a final product. In previous Windows betas, you were able to do this--which is why people are so taken aback now.

You are absolutely right about the partitioning, though. Having a separate data partition is always the way to go.

[monkeyfun14]

But the thing is you can clean install I think alot of people are misinterpreting and thinking they have to go out and buy vista to install Windows 7.


What these testers should of done in the first place was dual boot it not come back here and cry when they can't upgrade from it.

The reason for this is because 90% of the time from beta to RTM over half of the code has changed.

[rapier1]

@cayorstman,

You are entirely misinformed. As a beta tester for XP and Vista I can assure you that you could *not* upgrade from a beta to the final version. In fact, you often couldn't upgrade from the beta to the RC.

[technewsjunkie]

Who the heck is using Vista??
Ridicuous.

[Dr_Marten]

Probably a few million or a few billion users all around the planet!! What a crazy question!!

[Jahmekan]

I have no idea why this is a problem. You are testing a BETA product, so if MS require you to install the next release from Vista, then so be it. MS has to make sure that the market they are targeting with this new version of Windows will have an easy time upgrading from Vista to the final product Windows 7. Why should MS care if you can upgrade flawlessly from their Beta version of the product they are trying to sell to Windows Vista and XP users? I just don't understand why anyone could be upset about this move by MS.

[Lerianis3]

It is a big problem for people like myself who have SMALL hard drive, are home beta testers, and do NOT want to have to 'clean install' and maybe wipe out their primary partition if they press the wrong button.

They need to stop playing these games. I am SURE, absolutely SURE, that the 'tester builds' that will come out after the RC will GLADLY overinstall over an old Beta version of Windows 7..... it's time for Microsoft to stop playing the games.

[SergeM256]

Why upgrade? Vista worked OK for me and Windows 7 is just slightly improved version of Vista. Unless they offer free upgrade for beta-testers, I go back to Vista. Doesn't make sense to pay for a new if old one works OK.
Beta-testers deserve free or discounted upgrade. Beta-version is not perfect, testers have to deal with bugs and various hardware compatibility issues. I discovered and reported about a dozen minor but annoying issues.

[Lerianis3]

Don't buy it then. Do what I am going to do if they don't allow a person to upgrade FOR FREE from Vista to Windows 7..... five-finger discount it!
I'll just wait until it appears on the Pirate Bay and a crack comes out..... INSTALL!

[Dr_Marten]

Lerianis3. OKAY then, get your PIRATE software off the PIRATE bay and risk your passwords being stolen and also risk whatever you do online ( like online banking ) to be seen by thieves or other criminals!!

Get PIRATE oftware and you risk getting PIRATES trying to steal information from you!!

Cracked software <> I would oly use it on a P.C. where I do nothing financially!!
I would not even go on EBAY with a cracked version of WINDOWS ( any version ), you have been warned!!

[Jefferson101]

Sure it will. Its not a mac!

[troyoverton]

IMHO, the "problem" with 7 is that we've been pretty darn happy with it. The improvements over Vista have led many to put more faith in a beta than we really should.... That's good and bad.

So, did I... And I have yet to figure out what to do about it. A hdd failure meant the total loss of data I had, and the only thing I didn't have on my NAS was my iphone backup (OUCH).

I appreciate the improvements in the new OS, but "upgrading" to the RC should be easier. Why can't this be completed via Windows Update? The fact is, it could if they wanted us to. Why M$ continues to force people to do things the hard way "just because" will continue to be the ammunition that -nix fanbois use against them.

In Ubuntu (not saying its good or bad) you put in "update-manager -d" in a term and install the updates. New OS loaded... didn't skip a beat. Is there a reason that Redmond can't follow suit?

But... Props. 7 feels like a major step forward for Windows. Ready to see what the RC looks like.

[monkeyfun14]

Did MS not warn you to not put to much faith in it before though?

[brettdunnam]

Actually Microsoft recommends doing a clean install of the RC.

Why would you upgrade? Just copy your files to an external and do the clean install. Painless. 15 minutes.

[Lerianis3]

Not painless for people who were using it as their PRIMARY OS and have a hell of a lot of data on the drive with it! (snarling here)

That's what's got me pissed off ROYALLY! There is no, absolutely NO reason besides Microsoft's stupidity that we should have to do a clean install or an install from Vista (basically, reverting to a less worthy OS).

[Inconnux]

They will do anything to make people use Vista. Sorry Microsoft, as a long time supporter of your products, I have decided to switch to apple because of the current direction you are going with Windows 6.0 and 6.1 (Vista/Win7)

[reyes89]

yea i can imagine your pc prolly had outdated components it was prolly still ur windows 98 pc, that you updated to me, then xp, then vista. Yeah you cant expect a ferrari to run on regular unleaded. Vista requires quality newer components that meet todays standards.

it isnt a budget OS, Microsofts only mitake was expecting the pc sales and demand for new technology and people buying them, to conitnue growing as they where back when they concepted windows vista.

Regrettably consoles took abig chunk from the PC gamers, the only real reason to have serious hardware in your pc. It was cheaper for me to buy a professional workstation rig for digital media creation, than to keep my PC up to date every 7 months.

[monkeyfun14]

Funny thing is that you probably had a hard time spending $20 on a ram upgrade so you go and buy a $2000 mac.

Makes sense doesn't it?

[Inconnux]

Nvidia 8600 GT
AMD Athlon 64 X2 dual core 6000+ 3 ghz
2gb ram

not cutting edge but should easily meet the specs. Under XP it flies... don't need the Vista DRM performance hit thanks. All the games I play don't even make it hiccup.

Yes I play games but I use it for running chess software analysis a lot of the time so I need every CPU cycle that I can get and I don't want it to perform poorly because Microsoft decided to bloat its OS to a ridiculous degree. I'm sure the applications you use (email, IE) don't tax your CPU to 100% but I do and Vista is a DOG.

A lot of the software I use is NOT Compatible with Vista and to update the licenses would cost far more than several complete PC's. So If I am going to have to upgrade everything because Microsoft in its Arrogance decided to shovel out a crapware OS, I might as well make the switch. Way to go Microsoft, you are pushing loyal customers away with Vista.

[reyes89]

Actualluy the release candidate isnt a beta, there is no more work being done, the release candidate is the last stage to see if htere is an error or fata flaw that will make the system inoperable to the point where it need to be delayed. If errors show up that are minimal, work wil began for hotfixes and patches that will be released with the product or online.

Ehh btw heres something u guys should try, you shoudl be happy other people use the "inferior" windows over the "superior" mac, that makes u better, cooler, part of the in crowd, one with the elite, instead of telling us how dumb we are. The day the whole world changes to mac, will be the day all the mac fans will regret for life.

[Lerianis3]

******** are stupid. Their OS is only 'virus free and spyware free' (voice of an announcer here) because their OS is an also-ran that hackers and crackers simply don't want to spend their time on!

[Inconnux]

Funny how your logic backfires... Apache OWNS the server market yet the vast majority of the exploits out there are for IIS...

[TCrimson05]

I'm new here....but will someone explain why MAC,Apple....whatever you want to call them and "Market Share" is even in the "comment section" when the article was clearly JUST stating processes for WIN-7 upgrade? If you like MAC be quiet and mosey on. If you like Vista, good for you, keep it movin'. If you are anybody that DOESN'T HAVE 7 beta....stop complaining, stop whining, stop comparing because this article is NOT FOR YOU ANYWAY. If you wanna argue APPLE vs. 'SOFT then scroll up, to go the "Most Popular" section, and click the article "Is apple more form than function?" and get your fill. Just because the steps to upgrade are convoluted, doesn't mean we need convoluted comments from fanboys. HAHA fanboys act like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are paying you to to trash talk the other company...on the internet. Get Over it.

[lookitsron]

MS, do you like apples? After trying Win 7 beta and hearing crap like this - I'm going to do away with my PC and I'm getting another Mac. How do you like them apples?

[monkeyfun14]

They don't care you still paid for a license...

[Dr_Marten]

@ monkeyfun14 ot every pays for a GENUINE licence. STudents all over the world cn get WINDOWS XP or VISTA BUSINESS EDITION for free and legally!!

Have you ever heard of the MICROSOFT ACADEMIC ALLIANCE pogramme?