Version: 2008

Comments on: Microsoft lawyer 'won't speculate' on Linux suits

Microsoft's Horacio Gutierrez declines to say whether Microsoft would file other suits against companies that use the Linux kernel, but he does note that Microsoft's claim is specific to TomTom's implementation.

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by malynj February 25, 2009 9:32 PM PST
Perhaps they laid off the PR department, so this slipped through? You'd think they would be smarter than to pull an SCO, but maybe not. I would wonder if it would be hard to prove/defend the Linux-related claims in court, if Microsoft hasn't shown taking actions against other companies that haven't licensed. (i.e. embedded Linux device vendors beyond TomTom.)
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by pentest February 25, 2009 11:14 PM PST
I think MS is getting to the point where they are SCO desperate.

I wonder if MS will be wise enough to pull out before a judge decimates them?
by wolivere February 26, 2009 8:46 AM PST
pentest. There is a huge difference between SCO, and MS. last I looked there core business is not hurting to any greater extent then other companies.

I know it been the fade since the late 90's to keep hoping that saying it over and over will make it true. But, to date it has not been true.
by ppgreat February 26, 2009 9:17 AM PST
The only good thing about MS actions against open source folks is that it will finally put an end to all the veiled threats that MS has made over the years. With specifics to look over and adjust to, these patent concerns can be addressed by the open source community. I would have to assume that a lot of their concerns are specious, which means that MS will just continue on its present PR blundering course.

There was an old saying I first heard in college that might be applicable to Mr. Ballmer: "He could screw up a one man parade in a ghost town."
by pentest February 26, 2009 10:49 AM PST
MS is hurting they just laid off thousands.

They are also putting themselves in a position to start losing patents.

They may not be as bad off as SCO is, but they are going to hurt themselves badly.
by AppleSuxLeo February 25, 2009 10:32 PM PST
Why should they speculate. It`s a basic principle not to show your hand.
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by pentest February 25, 2009 11:17 PM PST
Yup, SCO did that.

"Millions of lines of infringing code"

Not one line was produced before the judged sentenced the company to complete annihilation.

If MS wants to follow the same path, they are welcome to. The world will be better off.

Even if they don't over-extend themselves, they just lost 5 patents. Everyone in the law suit is based on prior art and it only takes a few minutes to invalidate each one.

MS is simply showing that not only is the software patent emperor not wearing any clothes, he is a shriveled husk.

Once again, MS proves that only MS can destroy MS and they are hell bent on doing it.
by AppleSuxLeo February 25, 2009 11:32 PM PST
"Everyone in the law suit is based on prior art and it only takes a few minutes to invalidate each one"
Hey Mr wannabe lawyer. Is a law suit similar to a lawsuit , or is it more akin to a "fine Italian suit" ?.
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by ralfthedog February 26, 2009 9:19 AM PST
He has a point. Do you honestly think that Microsoft has any valid IP? I don't care how much money they offer the judge, I can't see them getting out of this intact.
by pentest February 26, 2009 10:48 AM PST
How about addressing the points, shill?
by mikesax February 26, 2009 9:23 AM PST
It looks like the GPS-related patents are a much more important part of this case than the file-system ones. TomTom is a big company and they've been playing the patent licensing game for a long time. They've even taken legal action against their competitors for patent infringement (Toyota and Garmin), so now it's their turn to defend themselves.
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by 0ri0n February 26, 2009 9:36 AM PST
No company, looking to take on a potentially unpredictable foe, goes at it in a direct manner; it will set a precedence in smaller courtroom battles, building an arsenal of small wins to bring to the larger courtroom trials. To think Microsoft is playing nice in this case is naive.

The MPIAA and RIAA never took on large entities until they had accumulated a number of wins going after individual people; incapable of weathering the financial and legal war. This is no different.

There are several open-source GPS providers out there, and they should combine there efforts to itemize and eliminate as many points of every lawsuit of this nature. Give Microsoft a taste of its own business - pick apart every point of the lawsuit, claim no component can be removed from the operating system, delay the process by asking for more time for discovery, ask for summary judgments on key points, file a counter suit based on previous wins and claim legal expenses as damages, appeal...rest rinse, repeat. If anything, drive the other company so far into litigation costs that they can then buy the company, or settle out of court with a 'mutual patent licensing arrangement' (a slow kiss of death based on contract terms).
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by Natanael_l01 May 6, 2009 5:24 AM PDT
LOLZORZ, I just thought about something - somebody in Microsoft must have been using the Linux kernel at least once in a position in the company that would make the GPL apply to Microsoft, which means that Microsoft potentially would have violated the GPL - and previous cases have been won were the defentends claimed their code was licensed under the GPL, that contains a patent paragraph, and that the one sueing them have been using it and thus have accepted the license!

...

Or could Microsoft get away with this one, saying that they never have used the Linux kernel? They must have "accepted" the GPL for software that is using FAT at least once by using GPl'ed software. How could they otherwise be so sure that the patent is infringed unless they have read the GPL'ed code?

I hope that FSF joins in on this one, if it's not to late. (It has been settled now, right?)
by drarkanex February 26, 2009 9:50 AM PST
Seriously, this is the straw that broke the camel's back as far as me running Windows. I encourage everyone that feels up to it to do away with Windows and go Linux. Now is the time. Show Microsoft they are not going to muscle their way around anymore. Or if you don't like Linux, just get a Mac.
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by Seaspray0 February 26, 2009 11:45 AM PST
Both of which have lawsuits of their own in the past or present... SCO suing IBM, Apple suing Pystar. Sorry, you can't use those OS's either because they have a lawsuit associated with them. You'll have to use OS2.
by CrashPad63 February 26, 2009 12:46 PM PST
Seriously looking at your past post youve been Linux for quite some time. So please spare us the historitronics.
by w_bee February 26, 2009 1:04 PM PST
I already switched to ubuntu exclusively, on linux's merit, not any sort of protest move.

Linux runs faster with no messy registry to deal with.
You have less worry about viruses with Linux.
You can still use many Window programs under WINE.
And, there are many GNU and free software available for almost any applications.
by drarkanex February 27, 2009 8:27 AM PST
I have always been pro-linux. But I find myself having to boot into Windows to do other tasks.. Now that M$ is taking this legal stance, I find it much easier to put Windows behind me and go with being more strict about what i put on my computer. Like I'll take the stance of: If it don't run in Linux, then i'm not buying it.
by jeaverage February 26, 2009 12:01 PM PST
Okay so tell the world which of the patents are being tread on so folks can get off of them. Looks to me like MS is hell-bent on extracting blood and tying up the courts to strongarm companies into crying uncle.

It's time for Microsoft to say goodnight and shrink to irrelevance. They and companies like GM are reasons I don't like multi-national corps. They get too big for their britches and endanger all of us either by the number of jobs they control (recession anyone) or they bully the gov't around.

No thanks. I'll stick with Mint Linux KDE or PCLinuxOS.
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by brickman5721 February 26, 2009 12:24 PM PST
One of the big claims Microsoft is making is that TomTom's use of the FAT file system is an infringement of their patent. I would have to say that if they truly do have a valid patent on FAT, TomTom kind of deserves that one. Still, it's pretty sad that Microsoft is making fools out of themselves over licensing for a tired old file system standard that they themselves are trying to eradicate.
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by CrashPad63 February 26, 2009 12:55 PM PST
Actually no they are not trying to eradiacte . The embedded Windows CE program is very strong. Several other GPS use fat 32, POP units, inventory handhelds Hell even the Apple stores use Windows embedded. LOL
by hightree123 February 26, 2009 1:06 PM PST
If that's the case, I would say to tomtom: leave FAT alone and ship ext2 for windows ( http://www.fs-driver.org/ ) on the CD.
by Natanael_l01 May 6, 2009 5:28 AM PDT
hightree123: That's freeware - not open source.
Go ext2fsd - much better, can easily be modified to do anything you want. (At least legally...)
Then you can ship it installed by default, with default settings adapted and everything.
by rtripathi February 26, 2009 1:16 PM PST
I'm switching to Ubuntu finally.
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by t8 February 26, 2009 1:27 PM PST
A desperate company reverting to desperate means because they cannot compete fairly with Open Source. (If they are indeed going to sue Open Souirce in whatever way.)
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by jtjt145 February 26, 2009 1:32 PM PST
MICROSOFT A CLUB OF SLIME-BAGS!

Their lawyer calls it "normal course-of-business dispute between two companies".

We call it: THE NORMAL BEHAVIOR OF A MONOPOLIST WHO JUST CAN'T HELP IT TO TRY SQUASHING COMPETITORS, NO MATTER HOW LOW THE MEANS".

That's how they managed to a BRIBE their dis-functional and propriatary document standard through the international standards body (ISO).

Shame on Micro$oft! May your stock-price fall through the gutter!
WHERE IS THE GOVERNMENT? WHERE IS CONSUMER PROTECTION HERE?
DO WE STILL HAVE SOMEBODY WATCHING MALEVOLENT CORPORATIONS?

Arthur
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by wheelie207 February 26, 2009 5:43 PM PST
How can M$ stop anyone from using the linux kernel anyway. The linux kernel is open source and I"m getting quite pissed at how M$ thinks he can get a patent on an open source stuff and think he can stop all those from using it because he thinks he owns it, but he owns nothing as all the open source stuff is under a license of the GPL. M$ can't file a patent on something that is already license in the first place. He even thinks he's going to hold a patent on the file system in linux, but he can try but he will fail big time.
All this stuff he is doing is illegal and I don't know how the DOJ can let him do this stuff since its illegal.
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by techno777 February 26, 2009 6:47 PM PST
I wonder how many patent infringements are inside Windows? How do they get by with keeping their source code secret, thereby hiding it from inspection for patent infringement? It's not fair that open source, by it's nature is open to inspection, with MS suing them, while keeping their code hidden. Or is this a misinterpretation of the situation? Frankly, I would like to see all software patents just disappear-it's an absurd thing to police the billions of lines of code out there. It's a bonanza for lawyers, nothing else. As long as the system exists, opportunistic companies will try to exploit it, to the great cost of all. But as long as congress is run by lawyers, don't hold your breath.
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by 3rdalbum February 27, 2009 1:32 AM PST
I think Microsoft has bitten off more than it can chew, with regards to the FAT patent. Virtually every embedded device has FAT32 support, virtually every external hard disk comes preformatted to FAT32, and every device that emulates flash storage (MP3 players, cameras, GPS units etc) both supports reading FAT32 and comes with a FAT32 filesystem.

Microsoft suing the entire consumer electronics industry? If Microsoft is not careful, this is what it could amount to.

Some of the other patents are dubious too; a quick discussion on several online forums has yielded quite a lot of prior art, and a lot of discussion about whether Tomtom devices really fit the descriptions of some of those patents.
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by Net Nerd February 28, 2009 7:01 AM PST
If Linux had the variety of software available for it, in similarly high quantities per category, I'd have switched over from Windoze long ago. I've done my share of browsing for Linux titles. They just aren't out there to be had.. yet. Sorry to burst the Linux promoters' collective bubble, but as long as Microsux has 3rd-party software companies in their back pocket, thereby keeping the titles I (and many many others) are interested in from the breaking into the Linux world, Microsux isn't going to die, regardless of how many lawsuits they file (and probably lose).

I'm no fan of Microsoft, and I'm certainly no apologist for them. They use despicable steamroller tactics to drive their mighty machine over start-ups before they ever get a chance to actually become any kind of competition -- or a chance to get in league with serious competition.
I'm no fan of their bloatware which doesn't work as well as their price tags demand, nor the endless supply of security holes and updates to fix products that weren't ready for market but were released anyway. In fact, Windoze has given me more headaches than.. well, actually MS-DOS back in the 80's gave me headaches, too, now that I recall. I hate Windoze and I hate Microsux. But what is one to do? You wanna/gotta use certain software, yer gonna use Windows. We're stuck.
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