Comments on: Office 14 screenshots find way to Web?

A Russian Web site posts screenshots that it says are of the new version of Office.

[globalist_agenda]

Why does MS still have disparate products. I want to manage documents. There should just be one tool, not 8 different ones. This is so 20th Century.

[timber2005]

I belive they call that application Microsoft Works, which does document editing, spreadsheet calculations, etc.

[mahurshi]

I am not sure how that would actually help. For instance, I don't want to see unrelated features/buttons from MS Word when I am looking at a spreadsheet.

In the case that you're confused about the application that you need to run to open a particular document, the OS does lend a hand. All you have to do is double click on the file and the appropriate program will open that document.

[rk2469]

to globalist_agenda:
They can do whatever they want to do. Not everybody wants 8 different applications running on their computer. Why should it be "one tool." Who's rule is that? What empirical data do you have for your idea? Is one better than many? There are reasons why these applications are separate.

Idea of everything running all at once or having a single tool is so 18th Century.

[Commander_Spock]

Re: "[...Why should it be "one tool." Who's rule is that? What empirical data do you have for your idea? Is one better than many?...]" Well, if I was President (-elect) Barack Obama I would wish to have "One Tool" (one dashboard - with hot links and all) from where I can monitor how the spending of $1,400,000,000,000 U. S. (notice that I have doubled the $700,000,000,000) is going.

[someguy999]

In addition, if MS just sold one product. enterprises would flip out because they don't want one product. If they had one product... they'd be forced to buy everything (which enterprises DON'T want, they want to buy in bits and pieces) ... plus how do you even consider things like Microsoft Project compared to a SharePoint Designer... they're just fundamentally different.

In addition, I can't even beging to imagine the DOJ implications of a single product.

[Commander_Spock]

Re: "[...enterprises would flip out because they don't want one product. If they had one product... they'd be forced to buy everything (which enterprises DON'T want, they want to buy in bits and pieces) .....]" Haven't ya heard about - MASHUPS!

[tm_anon]

@rk2469
What empirical data do you have to claim that an all-in-one tool is 18th century mentality?
Many people would prefer the ability to work with a document in all ways without switching between different programs. For example, when creating a document with the need to do spreadsheet calculations, right now you choose Excel. If you need to do some editing to a diffierent part of that document, you open the whole thing in Word. If you need to do another edit to some other part of the document, you take it into yet another program. Why not get rid of the idea of seperate programs and just set up a single user interface which connects to each area of the editing tools? Why not be able to set up a spreadsheet and do calculations directly from the same program you can do all other editing from? In other words, simplify it to the point no other Office Suite can even compare. Rather than having a format that's different enough nothing else can sync up properly, work on the actual tools so that even though you can create the document in another program, why would you want to? This is how MS should be thinking. Screw the monopoly mentality, start competing.

[David Turner]

Go get open office if you want that. It works much the way you want and its a free download. Personally I hate working like that.

[ceebee23]

The most successfully integrated "office" program was called AppleWorks... where the user assembled a document on a page a bit like a DTP progam ...adding word processing , spreadsheet and graphic elements seamlessly.

It was a brilliant interface...a pity neither Apple or MS or even the Open Office have created anything to rival it since.

[pjhenry1216]

Are you referring to the re-branding of ClarisWorks or the really old AppleWorks (on the Apple II platform)?

[Commander_Spock]

Re: "The most successfully integrated "office" program was called AppleWorks... where the user assembled a document on a page a bit like a DTP progam ...adding word processing , spreadsheet and graphic elements seamlessly...". So, what about "Lotus Kona".

Re: "Lotus brews potent Java with Kona"

http://www.morochove.com/watch/cw/ff70206.htm

[frankwick]

ClarisWorks was ok at a few things, but was limited in depth and scope. That's why they made FileMaker Pro. They realized that Works was impotent and for people who actually needed to work, the offered FileMaker.

Man, I remember those Kona Java applets. I tried to push those as a thin client (I was a Lotus fan boy before IBM ruined them). Didn't work out so well.

[RompStar_420]

I fully understand that some people might like the Ribbon "ahem, not me", why not create a class-look feature ? I want it to look like it did in Office 2003. Our entire office would have upgraded and migraded to Office 2007 by now if this way the case, and instead we won't even consider it - because everyone hates Ribbon here, especially older management folks. And don't reply that they should learn or die, because the older people are the ones that make the decisions and have aggregated the money over time.

I love openoffice.org, because the interface looks like something that everyone is already familiar with. Whoever came up with the Ribbon and who ever is still rubber stamping and approving that idea - I just want to let you know that you lost billions in Sales $$$ because of that great idea.

[hafenbrack]

Other companies have also started moving to a ribbon interface as well, and once you get accustomed to the ribbon interface, you neve want to go back.

[Thunderbuck]

The problem here isn't just that the control scheme is changing, it's that all the infrastructure underlying that interface is changing too.

Not only is it not a simple "port across", it also drags out the cut-over.

[frankwick]

Had the same concerns in 2007. Now there is no way I would go back. The ribbon is very easy to use. very easy to find what you are looking for. When I made the jump I was helped my a free tool called "Office Search Command" -- look it up. You simply type what you want to do and this tool shows where to find it.

The ribbon is now making its appearance in Windows itself. I have the Win7 beta and it is in Write and Paint.

[danielwsmithee]

I like the ribbon just use if for a few weeks and you won't want to switch back.

[Mr. Dee]

Please note that Office InterConnect is only available in Japan and its used as a electronic Rolodex.

[RompStar_420]

Good for you that you like the Ribbons - but Classic look Option should be built in, not sure why it's not there, is that too difficult to manage ? Anyways, that's how I feel about it - As soon as the opensource version come up with more then 65 rows, I am switching out of Excel completely.

[ace10134]

Love the ribbon

Other than that, global adescant or whoever might have a point with having 1 office for word and excel, but for other things, it just wouldn't work. How could you combine Powerpoint with Word?? Now imagine trying to combine Outlook with Word, that just wouldn't work at all. You can't have an email program inside your Word processor. What if you just want to check your email, then you would have to fire up all of those resorces for powerpoint, excel, access, word, it would take forever to start.

And for the people who say that they don't like the ribbon, well what do you expect microsoft to do? Should they just sit up in Redmond and sell the same version of Office with the same interface, and just changing the theme color, and saying it's a new Office? They have to make improvements, so what do you expect?

[tm_anon]

Why not forget the idea that everything has to be running just to be up? With a single user interface for the entire Office Suite, MS Office would work more smoothly. The mechanics would be the same underneath with that one little change. In order to any editing for any document, rather than bring up every program individually, just bring up one easy to use interface. Want your email contacts? Bring up the user interface. Want to edit a .doc file? Bring up the user interface. It creates a much more compact but robust program. Its ability to flow with your work rather than breaking it up into pieces would give it an edge like never before. It would be an actual Office Suite rather than just a collection of programs. It would remove much of the bulk of the programming and simplify it into something that would fit even on a netbook. Simplification in this way would make MS Office worth every penny. Microsoft needs innovation. Stop treading water and start swimming.

[stringboy]

The problem can be summed into two words: backwards compatibility. If they included the old menus for the 95% of us who used them, nobody would have complained.

[RompStar_420]

I wonder if there was a poll done on the number of people that like ribbons and the number that's don't.

That should speak for it's self.

[alegr]

I've heard MS does pretty rigorous useability testing.

[t8]

"Various Microsoft enthusiast sites were buzzing on Thursday ..."
What, I thought there was only one Microsoft enthusiast site, microsoft.com

[dhavleak]

I don't know about a poll -- but there was a lot of usability research that went into the design of the ribbon. IIRC this was the rationalization:
1. The ribbon is supposed to make common tasks faster
2. It's supposed to make features more easily discoverable.

The second point it seems is related to feature requests that MS keeps getting for office. i.e. 90+% of the feature requests they get are for things that office already does. So they figured that too many features are getting buried inside menus where they are not discoverable. The ribbon was their answer to that.

How well it achieved it's mandate is a seperate question. As a ribbon user for about 18 months, I think of it as a resounding success. I've heard a lot of ribbon detractors as well -- I doubt all of them are just MS haters. But one thing worth pointing out with any radical UI change -- it's worth it to plunge in neck-deep and really immerse yourself in the experience for at least a week or so. After that if it isn't working for you, you're probably going to have a hard time with it. But if you approach it with a closed mind you might miss stuff that really does justify the redesign.

Again -- having said that, all UI redesigns are not warranted, but at least in the case of the ribbon, MS wins my vote.

[illegallydead]

I guess the counter-argument though is that if you are in a business setting you don't want everyone just "plunging in neck deep" and losing productivity as everyone tries to learn the new way of doing things. Sure, you could roll it out gradually, but the fact of it is that lost time when people are searching for things they used to know how to do is lost money. And money speaks pretty loudly in a business setting.

All that being said, I use Office '07 (and therefore the ribbon) whenever I am on a windows machine, or when I have to boot into windows from my Mac because every office software for the mac SUCKS compared to Office '07. I am curious to see what all "Office 14" (bad name...) brings to the table...

[dhavleak]

Right, but that initial productivity loss (and resulting switch-over hesitation from businesses) will happen any time there's a change. In the meantime, if MS has conviction in the changes they are making, the sooner they make them the better -- because the "switching curve" only gets steeper with time.

[Commander_Spock]

There is one other thing too when one considers business settings - imagine having to make 14 different stops (use fourteen different applications; and, let us exaggerate a bit) before one gets to the final destination rather than that of a "One-Hop None-Stop Journey", Still yet, why on this God's Greening Earth (you get the energy savings) it is taking Microsoft, IBM, Apple et al this long to come up with a really compelling "integrated" office suite since Lotus Kona!!!

[mdb17]

if yall are complaining about this change with Office and lost productivity what are you going to say when all these companies have to change to Windows 7? i have Vista and have since it came out and have no problems with it. I am also playing with Windows 7 and and having a learning curb with that switch and cant imagine the curb XP users will have to face. Good luck...

[FireFox_User]

Oh no... The battle of MS & Apple Fan-boys starts... AGAIN...

I think this is starting to look like an app i would use.

[stringboy]

Until I can see the Home ribbon at the same time that I see the Insert ribbon, the old menu system is better than the new user interface. Instead of working on being more user-friendly for an individual, MS decided to design a user interface that fits with their data. Dumb.

[dhavleak]

@ stringboy -- "MS decided to design a user interface that fits with their data. Dumb."

What is "their" data? You're implying that MS has some cooked-up data that supports the ribbon design, as opposed to the ribbon design being based on real world data?

Think about that for a second. Changing a UI causes a learning curve when switching. i.e. changing a UI is a *negative* for buyers. i.e. MS risked losing money by changing to the ribbon design. Now why would they take that risk? After all, they want to make *more* money, not *less*. The only reason is that they see this as the better option over the long-term. And they only way they can see it as the better option, is if they did the usability research and saw hard data proving that this was more efficient.

Regarding your first point: "Until I can see the Home ribbon at the same time that I see the Insert ribbon, the old menu system is better than the new user interface."
1. Why?
2. If there is something in the insert menu that you use *very frequently* and cannot live without -- just add it to the "Quick Access Toolbar". Anything you add there is visible at all times. Simple.
3. Otherwise, you have the option of clicking on the Insert tab any time you need it.
4. If you want to save yourself a click you can just move the mouse pointer to the ribbon and *scroll down" one notch on your scroll wheel -- you'll be on the insert tab.

It's not normal to require the Insert menu stuff all the time. Are you constantly inserting new tables, new indexes, new rows in the middle of a table? Even though that's no the norm, if your scenario demands it, the Quick Access tip I gave you above should fix your issue.

Remember, when using a new UI -- dive in head first to figure out how to make it work for you. If you fight with it, you won't discover how it actually helps you. It might not always be an improvement, but at least in the case of the ribbon, the UI change is definitely forward progress.

[stringboy]

dhavleak, sorry, for some reason I cannot reply directly to your response.

First, yes, it is their data. They asked people to "help" make Office better and the clicks were tallied. They used the data to create a user interface to solve the perceived problems of users.

The "better user interface" is better for whom? The user like me with over 10 years experience. Granted, I didn't use all of words features, but I don't need them. I believe the new UI has 2 main purposes, unrelated to the user. First, to continue to dumb-down UI to maximize the number of users (an affliction that has the OS as well). Second, to differentiate their product from alternatives. They felt they could force the market to change with them, given their market share, maybe they are right.

I know this sounds a bit reactionary, but who cares how I insert date and time to a document or why I choose to do it that way. The way I build documents is based on over 10 years of personal experience. I was quicker and prefer the way I did it before. The old UI didn't require the menu to constantly change in order for it to be useful, because what is in the middle of the screen changes according to what Ribbon you are using.

The QAT is the cure for squat (sorry, couldn't resist). It has a 30 item limit and, if I remember correctly, some things are not available.

Despite my protest, I could careless about new UI. My real problem is with the complete disregard for backward compatibility. It came first in IE7 and Office 07, then Vista, and it only continues in Windows 7 and Office 14. I am glad they kept the shortcut keys (so far), but having to relearn what I already knew is frustrating, still over a year since I started.

[Dalmatian28]

It doesn't matter what Microsoft does....there will be always someone that will be beaching about something that they don't like! The interesting thing is that even after all the complains...they will still go back to MS Office and keep using it! Why????? .....because it is the best Office product out there! Even Apple's zombies agree with that one! Quit ******** and use something else if you don't like it!!!!

[stockyjoe]

Do not want, do not care, do not need. Especially for $400.00

[firefoxluva95]

@stockyjoe

And the perks of being a student really show. I don't have to pay $400.

[huminflame]

hopfully this addition will have tabs. that was what was missing in Office 2007. it would make my work a lot easer