Comments on: Windows 7 talk turns to hardware

At this week's Windows Hardware Engineering Conference, Microsoft will shift the Windows 7 conversation to what it means for computer and device makers.

[Penguinisto]

...so for the $64 question: Windows Mobile only, or can Symbian, BES, etc get a piece of that? I won't ask ab't iPhone integration, because I'm thinking that iTunes is pretty much all you need, and I doubt that MSFT is in any hurry to assist Apple in any way, shape, or form.

Device compatibility I fully expect to not be ready yet - it's the list of compatibles by release that matter.

[Alex Alexzander]

Apple doesn't want a 3rd party app to control their phone. They don't authorize any app that talks to it via it's USB. That's why all the file based sync apps have to use little web server apps to move files to and from the iPhone. If you want to see support for the iPhone ask the dictator Jobs to open the platform up a little.

Alex Alexzander

[Penguinisto]

Doesn't matter in this case - the question is more along the lines of how far MSFT will go to accommodate iTunes/iPhone users, as they apparently have with Windows Mobile users (and who else? Dunno... which is why I asked).

By the by, the iPhone SDK is free, and is just as open as the Windows Mobile one. ;)

/P

[Vegaman_Dan]

That question is up to the individual device OEMs, Penguinisto. The OS provides the channel for those devices to report themselves. Whether or not the OEMs of those devices choose to provdie that informaiton is up to them.

As for iTunes- that nightmare has enough problems of its own that I don't think *anyone* wants to touch with a ten foot pole.

[Penguinisto]

It's a two-way street, Dan. Hardware makers who find Windows' model impossible to work with will simply abandon or delay it. While the small makers probably cannot afford to, large makers (e.g. Intel, NVIDIA, and the like) will have Microsoft bending over backwards to accommodate them, and for good reason.

Overall, it is a two-way street... without device support, Windows 7 (or any version) loses acceptance, marketshare, etc. Without a large potential market, makers are stuck with cutting out large portions of customers.

That said, if a large enough portion of hardwqare makers simply refuse Windows 7 or delay making anything to work on it (instead sticking with XP and/or Vista), then Windows 7 adoption stalls, and perhaps even dies off. I'm very sure that MSFT is fully aware of this, no?

/P

[CrashPad63]

Penguin, you continue with your hate campaign. Just give it up. No one believes or trust your opinions. So go back to your little hole and leave this discussion to the relevant people in here.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Penguinisto:

First you blame Microsoft for not working with Apole, then you call it a two way street for support, then you go back to blaming Microsoft for being hard to work with.

Please pick a story and stick with it, okay? You're not doing your argument any good by constantly changing your story like that.

[Penguinisto]

It's not a question of hate or blame, kids... it's an environment that MSFT is stuck with as a software vendor.

[Mr. Dee]

Here is a question. How are PC manufacturers (Dell, HP, Lenovo, Acer) and others working to ensure that customers who have invested in buying their PC's receive updated drivers so when they are upgrading to 7 from Vista or XP they will find an updated device driver in case its not supported in Windows 7?

[rapier1]

The driver model should remain the same so if there is a Vista driver it should work under Windows 7. The problem is convincing companies to continue their support of products that are near or past their end of life. This was one of the biggest problems facing Vista - many companies just didn't see any return in cranking out new drivers for products they no longer actively supported.

[Penguinisto]

"The problem is convincing companies to continue their support of products that are near or past their end of life."

Products like XP? Oh, you meant hardware mfrs... my bad. ;)

Seriously, the answer to both your and the parent's question depends on how far MSFT is going to help the OEMs as well... this is a two-way street, after all.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Penguinisto wrote:

"Seriously, the answer to both your and the parent's question depends on how far MSFT is going to help the OEMs as well... this is a two-way street, after all."

Absolutely right, but if an OEM retires a product and drops support, you can't expect Micrsosoft to continue support for it either indefinitely, or to step in and do what the OEM itself will not do either. It is, as you said, a two way street. Microsoft is providing the means for those OEM's to better support the end user with udpated drivers. It's up to the OEM's to then step up and provide that service to the customers.

We cannot blame MSFT for an OEM who chooses to not support their own products.

[Lerianis]

Vegaman_Dan... you got it right in one. We cannot blame Microsoft for device manufacturers who refuse to keep on supporting hardware. Really.... some of these 'end of life' times are a little..... SHORT. HP says that a printer should only be supported for 3 years, tops.... seems a little bit short of a period, considering I have a 5 year old printer that I still use, on Vista.

[Penguinisto]

So tell me - Intel no longer supports Pentium 4 (first-gen) chips, so would you expect Windows 7 to do so as well? I'm thinking that Microsoft will go out of their way to insure that the thing still runs on P4 first-gen chips, in spite of Intel pretty much abandoning the things. ;)

Without OEM support, Microsoft's unsupported product then loses acceptance by the world at large (by both consumer and enterprise). It's rather simple to figure out... think it through a little, folks.

/P

[wolivere]

Penguinisto

Correct me if I am wrong here but the P4 chip is an X86 architecture? Much as the PIII's PII's P1's...etc..etc.

So your answer for this would be correct if say Intel Dropped support for X86 architecture, and moved to something new. In that case I believe you are correct would MS continue to support an architecture that is no longer around.

Not long ago, about two weeks ago, I was playing around with an old server of mine. It was a Tyan Dlun Thunder 100. Dual PII 266mhz processors, 512MB and a pare of Monster Card's, it has an Adaptec 1000 raid controller 10 4gb drives in two raid 5's mirrored.

Back in its day 1996-97 it was top notch technology.

My first try was to run Ubuntu Server, it failed it did not like the Adaptec Controller, nor the SCSI CD ROM.

Second Try was SuSe again same issue and after searching around found that there is no support for the controller.

Okay Fired up 2000, popped in the NT4 driver disk and it installed and loaded up. And boy it was fast.

Next was server 2003, same thing used the NT4 driver disk and it loaded up

Server 2008 same

MS Home server same

XP same

Vista Same.

And yes Vista ran slow on it, I actually pulled the dual monster cards and put in a TI3200 and it ran better with that card.

But the thing is it loaded and ran on 10 year old hardware. It even loaded up the 40gb DLT.

My wife made me shut it down due to the noise the 10 4gb hard drives make. But it was worked.

So back to your point, a P4 3.6 Extreme processor is still a rocket ship, and in some cases will outperform newer Core 2 Duo's.

A good example of that is EQ2 which does not use the GPU for graphics but the processor, and did not at the time support multi cores. So if you compared performance between a Core 2 Duo 2.66 and the P4 3.6 Extreme the extreme blew the doors off the Core 2 DUO in that environment.

[Penguinisto]

@wolivere: Not exactly - there's more than just x86 in there. Specifically, first-gen P4's were using Netburst tech, as opposed to the Core tech they use now. This means that while yes they are both x86, well... not exactly.

A good parallel would be AMD's earlier K6 chips - Windows 95 flat-out refused to run on it until you installed a patch. This is in spite of the fact that AMD's K6 was/is essentially an x86 architecture.

[DrtyDogg]

@Penguinisto: The problmes with Windows 95 and the K6 processors WAS a software problem. It was not a driver problem, and a patch was issued by MS to address it.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Lerianis : Three years is the standard life cycle of most products today. Most come with a one year warranty and extend up to three years total for the life cycle of the unit. This is normal It may be too short for you and me, but it is what the industry has accepted.

Penguinisto:

Of course MSFT will try to support products when the OEM discontinues them. I don't get why you are chastising MSFT for wanting to help those consumers with outdated products though. That seems counterproductive. I would have thought having a company supporting these products was a good thing. Why are you against Microsoft from wanting to help consumers with older products when the OEM no longer does? Your points are confusing.

If you want to blame anyone for discontinuing a product, try blaming the company that made it, not the company that is going out of their way to keep it running. That would be a much more resonsible thing to do it seems like to me.

[gybognarjr]

I would assume, that for computers to be useful, hardware and software must work together. So far it is questionable in the case of PC and Windows. It should be demanded, required and enforced by either the hardware makers or the software makers (Microsoft with the OS) to be 100% compatible. It is the utmost stupidity and an idiotic status, that these two camps are like shy girls and boys at the prom without dates, waiting to be asked for a dance. I hope it is not the Vista of the future in PC computing.

[Lerianis]

No, it is not questionable. Everything usually works together, unless a software maker goes TOTALLY out of their way to make something incompatible with a driver or piece of hardware.

[hafenbrack]

I have been using Vista for 2 years now. I have not had any problems with software or hardware working with Vista. Of course I am not trying to run hardware that is 5 years old either, and if I was, why would I be trying to use Vista in the first place?

[nealmiller1]

Can you explore if there's any word on the Cairo object-oriented OS features promised in years past, either in the OS or in any software apps?

[nealmiller1]

Can you find out if there's any word on any new features in the next version of the Windows Mobile OS?

[DrtyDogg]

I really like this idea from MS, I get so tired of every device that I connect to my computer trying to instal some POS program. I only hope that the device manufacturers start utilizing this.

2 cameras: 3 printers: 1 exteranal hard drive: 1 MP3 player = 7 programs that are not needed. And to make it worse most of the CDs auto-launch the installer for the software when the CD is inserted, so even if you are just trying to insall the driver it is a pain.

[mtoc]

if Win 7 is realy as good as reported I may buy in. wish they would in include easy "bootcamp" app. like OS10.5 to use XP etc. or is too much to expect from MSFT????
also, wish they would clean up cryptic option messages to plain English. and...bolder type for LCD monitors to make up for poor display of black image.