Comments on: Apple's blow to Microsoft may be glancing

The Mac maker throws some more verbal shots at Vista, but it fails to deliver the sub-$800 punch that could have really left Redmond hurting.

[Undune]

Is the Apple tax like the Microsoft tax?
Hours lost to Word crashing unexpectedly?
Money lost to service technicians for fixing OS errors?
Or maybe it's just hours wasted on the phone talking to confused parents about how to go into DOS to resolve a network error, because the built in network utility tool is horsesh*t?
I can tell you, having had at least one mac computer for the past five years, and owning two windows machines, which one is more costly in the "invisible tax" arena.

[Stormspace]

Oh Yeah, and Macs are so much better. Want to do real configuration on a Mac? You'll have to learn some bastardized BSD CLI commands. And don't get me started about network compatibility. But, if you are a newb and only have one machine, it probably should be a Mac. But if you want to do real work, on a network, or play the most cutting edge games, use windows. Or you can do what I do, give both the finger and suffer through with Linux. It's just as easy as OSX.

[random truth]

@stormspace
what are you talking about. Linux, Windows, and Mac OS X are different ball games. What you are describing sounds like Mac OS 8. My school has macs with that on it still, even though they are 14 years old. Also what do you mean by "real configuration". It sounds like your sorta new to linux to. I can help you if you want. I would suggest you use Linux MInt, Ubuntu, or Fedora. I would suggest linux mint over them all because it has all the media codecs and most the drivers pre-installed and makes your life a bit easier.

[jandler]

Here's my answers.
Hours lost to Word crashing unexpectedly?
-> Word did crash but document recovery works like a charm. So hours lost is practically 0
Money lost to service technicians for fixing OS errors?
-> never happen to me
Or maybe it's just hours wasted on the phone talking to confused parents about how to go into DOS to resolve a network error, because the built in network utility tool is horsesh*t?
-> never happen to me
I can tell you, having had at least one mac computer for the past five years, and owning two windows machines, which one is more costly in the "invisible tax" arena.
-> and I can tell you that me having a windows machine and a mac pro that my windows machine allows a much wider amount of freedom, both paid and free software, and high quality but low cost hardware. it's expandable, upgradable and runs everything that i want. Choices and freedom over being a zombie.

[Stormspace]

@random truth
I'm good. I use Ubuntu and Mac OS in an enterprise setting as well as windows and while Mac's make great personal computers, they don't work well in the enterprise. Especially not in a mixed environment where networking is a must. I haven't tried them in a 100% apple enterprise, so they might do better in that situation.

What I do know however is that when hardware fails on a Mac it always take the machine out of service for days while we wait on Apple care to send us replacement parts. With our intel machines, we just grab a component from an unused machine and slap it in.

And then there is the Apple server without a redundant power supply. How can Apple provide a server without redundant power? And it's not hot swappable? All Intel based servers I've ever worked with had this simple capability.

Apple is not perfect and frankly it's doesn't "just work" as advertised in the situations I've listed. With intel boxes I have to blame hardware vendors or MS, but with Apple there is only one entity to blame.

[iConquered]

I also feel that the new Mac line up will not draw in a broader audience. It may be enough of a nudge to mobilize fence sitters who wanted something a bit more economical. That is of course, if one considers a $100 reduction, to be a sufficient price drop. Apple has introduced a few novelty updates (touch sensitive trackpad for the new Mac line and shuffle shaking for their new Nano line), but this year seems to be a bit lethargic when juxtaposed to previous Apple announcements.

However, that will not prove to be too damaging, as Apple is still able to gather momentum from several missteps on the part of Microsoft, who has been utterly uncoordinated up until recently. The Zune has rebounded to become a serious competitor in the media player space, and Microsoft has been rapacious with their Xbox 360 platform. Once windows is on track, we should be able to observe what a much more organized Microsoft can do. Until then however, Apple has the leverage by being able to tout their product synergy, while Microsoft continues to play catch up.

[HlLLARY CLITON]

One of these days Apple will deliver a major blow to MS

[AppleSuxLeo]

A major blow-job...yes...a major blow ? Never.

[pithenumber]

I find that the MS tax is cheaper than the Apple Tax. Antivirus is free, debugging guides can be found on Google. The Apple Tax costs money, The MS tax costs time.

[rocketjam--2008]

In the words of a famous sage: "Time is money."

[jandler]

Antivirus is free, debugging guide can be found on google, etc etc. -> only needed if a problems occurred. For me, my family, my friends does it happen alot? Nope. Practically never. Therefore, I don't prepaid for problems that will not likely happen. And I'm not talking about those self called expert that like to go in and change everything in their machine whether it is windows, mac or linux and then just whine and blame when nothing works.

[Penguinisto]

So tell me - how much does performance and time lost to gray-market and the mismatched parts of a typical Dell or HP laptop cost?

[xylyx3d]

yah, after they fire steve jobs for wanting to be bill gates mini-me

[xylyx3d]

the, tax either way is truly irrelevant to high end consumers (myself included). you have to get the fastest no matter what the cost, macs are the slowest you can get for the money.

[Penguinisto]

Funny - any major and credible benchmark comparing the two native app for native app show the Mac as destroying its competition. There aren't many, but they are rather conclusive:

Want an example? Popular Mechanics: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Leopard-Leaves-Vista-in-the-Dust-in-Performance-Benchmark-83710.shtml

[professionaladventurer]

Apple is better and worth the extra money every time. 15+ years in IT management of both OS's to back that. Sure some enviro's require M$ but everything else being equal - I hate Windows. Also Apple users wine less (on a 1:1 scale) about their system not working as promised (even if they don't have to pay for it).

[AppleSuxLeo]

The rest of the world says MSFT is better...so you lose , loser.

[jandler]

"I hate Windows." when this is said, it's not objective. you should said something about downtime, configuration, network latency, security stuff, etc etc.

[da_alman]

Hmmm. I thought Apple users wine more.

[wango2007]

I don't see a problem here, MS does not sell computers, so Apple coudn't hurt MS anyway.

People will be buying Windows for their Macs... that is why Mac sales have spiked a little since Mac went Intel.

Apple is foolish if they think they can sell these new cheapo computers without the expectation of users being able to use Windows.

Buyers are going to be very disappointed when they find the new Mac cheapos don't have decent ram, disk space or graphics cards.

[iConquered]

They run GeForce 9 series cards, and offer a range of 160-250GB of space. Unless you are heavily invested in piracy (which is one of few reasons why a person would need so much space), there is no real shortage of space on a 250GB drive. Also 2GB is a hefty amount of RAM for a laptop. My friend has a Vaio that is only one year old and it only comes with 1GB and a 1.6 Dual Core processor. On the other hand my BlackBook has 2GB of RAM and a 2.4 Dual Core processor. That really isn't "cheapo."

[Jonthin]

Ina Fried, I can only say that you are barking mad if you really believe that Microsoft: "has let itself be completely defined by a competitor."

Apple has merely described what EVERY user KNOWS and has EXPERIENCED about Windows.

Apple has done nothing itself to define Microsoft, though OS X also just happens to make Windows look at least as bad as it really is...

[jandler]

I guess you never seen the I'm a PC, I'm a MAC propaganda

[MrKleinpaste]

As an M$ admin that also works with Macs, the M$ tax is NOT cheaper. It's far more expensive than any other operating system out there, no matter how many "polls" Micro$haft pays for. It takes less admins, less software, less servers and therefore less $ to take care of an Apple based network with ALL of the same features as a Windows based network. I main example I always give is Apple Remote Desktop. This one application at $500.00 does all the work that it would take several Microsoft products to do, adding up to tens of thousands in hardware and software savings.

That's before you take into account that Time=Value=Money. Whether I'm working on my "gaming" system or supporting hundreds of users. Every minute I spend supporting Windows issues is time I'm NOT doing something productive (Note: fixing Microsoft's stupidity is NOT productive). Anti-viruses are free, if you use one with limited functionality. I should be using my computer, not debugging it.

On the Money front I'm on my second Mac (personally). My old one went to my wife after 6 years and is still running strong after two OS upgrades. I bought the Intel one so I could dual boot to game and it runs better than my "TOP O DA LINE" PeeCee that now has been donated to a friend. The cost of a Mac over the long run is MUCH cheaper than a Windows system. TCO does not just include up front costs. It includes UFC + support time + supporting software (AV/AS).

[Vegaman_Dan]

Anyone who refers to a company in the IT industry as "Micro$haft" isn't any sort of respectable or reputable IT professional.

Children can go to the small table in the corner and partake in the name calling. The rest of the adults will converse out here in a respectful and knowledgable manner.

"Anti-viruses are free, if you use one with limited functionality."

Again, no credibility. Using a product with no support or even vetted by a proven process isn't responsible for any IT professional, let alone a "M$ admin". I call BS on you sirrah. Either you are not an admin at all or you are a very poor excuse for one. Either way, end users would be ill advised to follow advice you have to give.

[jandler]

@Vegaman_Dan
Amen

[Penguinisto]

ad-hominems aside, I noticed that neither of you addressed his point.

I take it that you therefore cannot refute them?

[eldernorm]

BINGO. Don't sweat the MS trolls and shills. Facts are facts and to the persons who comment that Microsoft sells more... I say, "Do you keep a cockroach as a pet, cause you know there are many more of them than dogs and cats so.... of course they must be better?" LOL

Every user that goes Mac, does not go back. So to all those college students going Mac, Welcome to a much nicer life.

Nuff said.

Just a thought.
en

[Perry_Clease]

How dare Apple fail to follow the instructions of the pundits! No $800 MacBook, no touch screen, no right-click button! I am shocked, shocked I tell you.

[vistaisgreat]

I have been using Vista for last 6 months and I think it is a very good OS. I just love it. Windows 7 is coming soon.. Leapord your days are over....

[eldernorm]

Actually, Snow Leopard is coming so you may be right about Leopard being over. As far as Microsoft Windows 7.... More Vista, more cost, more forced usage.

Microsoft says, "All your money belonga to us". LOL :-)

Just a thought.
en

[thomcarl]

People who run vista and like it, have a serious problem, Apple dosen't have to deliver a hit to Windows, Microsoft is doing fine all by them selves. Get a clue Ina. Money talks BS walks.

[Vegaman_Dan]

I use Vista and don't have any problems with it. It just works. It boots up every day without issue, performs all the tasks I ask of it and it serves me well for what I need. What problem do I have if a product does what it is supposed to do and doesn't fail in that promise?

[random truth]

I congratulate you Veganman_Dan.
I can not use vista and still be productive.

[topgunb2]

@random truth get some training on how to be productive, if you can use google, you'll find lot of online courses for this. I can use mac, windows or linux to be productive

[myles taylor]

I think people often forget about the percentage of money spent when looking at the market share. Apple's target is narrower, but it's also the audience that pays more. I'd like to see what percentage of money spent that Apple has.

[random truth]

Its 1 of every $3 spent on a computer fyi.

[myles taylor]

Thanks.

[KillersDad]

There are two comparative economic models working here. Microsoft with it's various Plug and Pray hardware vendors are targeting a Volume-focused sale to the lowest common denominator PC Customer. You get what you need, or add to what you buy and you have what you want. Apple is targeting a Value-focused sale. You get a comprehensive all-inclusive hardware and software solution in a dang nice package and everything works without the PC Customer needing to develop a techno-weenie attitude about why Vendor A's add-on doesn't work with Vendor Z's computer and does Vista compliment the problem or the solution.

Me? I'm a value guy. No viruses, runs the software I want to run and I much prefer plug and play. So what if I cannot access every tech miracle out there, I can still run my business, enjoy my family, and it's all complimented by my computer.

[jandler]

Basically, you are saying if you buy everything from Dell. It works great, Ditto if you buy everything from HP or Mac. Makes sense since each hardware manufacturer is primarly concerned with making their own stuff work with each others. Drivers are certainly created that way and so is the test mechanism in their factory.

[AppleSuxLeo]

Apple laid a turd on their big day. They dropped 6% more and they have run out of ideas for the notebooks. They are FugLy and the Apple mystique is gone.

[eldernorm]

Hmmmm, I wonder if this user is mis-named. Maybe it should be Apple-LeoSux???

Just a thought. And as far as being a Microsoft shill or troll, I would say that they are not one. Or if they are, MS is not gettting its moneys worth.

Just a thought.
en

[jimalojj]

Fanboys make me laugh..i have no loyalty to any company Microsoft nor Apple, i'll buy wht is the best value for my money..type in pc vs mac in the cnet search bar and read the article when they compared an apple macbook to an acer travlemate which was similarily configured..performance wise(which is the most important aspect to most pple) the acer performed better than the Mac(funny thing is the macbooks running Windows performed better than the macbook running OS)..i've had an Compaq for 3 years and i've never had a virus issue, do u know why?..because i dont go on dodgy porn sites and my anti-virus (AVAST) was free and when it detects a virus it deals with it effectively...if u read the article u can get the acer with the same photoshop software tht the mac has amongst others and u'll still have an extra 500 bucks!! to spare...and lets be honest, wht % of pple use all the photoshop and video editing programs macs or pcs have? i doubt it wld even come close to 25 but i'm no analyst..its like the nintendo wii..shld be a lot cheaper than it is but because of its briliant marketing pple will pay tht price for it hence no price drop(and yes i bought one)...here in Australia the macbook pro is $3000!! i can get two wicked laptops for tht price with better specs including extended warranty!!...apple=muppets

[AppleSuxLeo]

I agree 100%

[v3lvet]

"One of these days Apple will deliver a major blow to MS"

Before Apple ever comes around to being a true global threat to MS, I predict Google will come in and blow both of them with a free operating system.

[AppleSuxLeo]

Apple's Laptops Go Upscale in a Down Market...and AAPL cont to lose Market Cap...

[loopazilla]

The Wall Street crash means that all the Big Business users of Microsoft's products will be cutting back on purchases. However, over in Hollywood, (or Appleland as some call it ), production will be racked up to cope with the needs of a tired and stressed population for escapist fantasies. Not that the volume of such sales means much in real world terms.

[Kwasiowusu]

Dream on!
Wall Street crash could mean folks staying at home more and playing their XBOX 360's and buying more XBOX 360 games, giving them hundreds of hours of entertainment, instead of going to see yet another stupid, anti-American movie that lasts for just 2 hours, and comes from the pinheads in Hollywood.
Don't count on movie production "racking up" in Hollywood in a slow economy.