Comments on: Microsoft goes live with Mojave videos

Software giant is hoping that videos of Windows Vista skeptics reacting positively to Vista will help convince millions of other skeptics that the operating system just has a bad rap.

[workshopmusic]

They have a good ad agency now and you can expect the approach to get more sophisticated and probably more effective too.

The challenge comes when customers have been persuaded that "Vista is not all bad" (after all it's not)... the customers make the leap and encounter the real-world stuff, as above, installing software, problems with cards and peripherals that worked under XP, etc.

The continued popularity of XP, the interest in "downgrades" ... a trend favoring alternatives not so encumbered with broken features... netbooks... these things should be a wakeup call to Microsoft and to those excellent folks preparing Microsoft's messages.

It's nice to be perceived well, but Microsoft needs to execute well, get ahead of the quality situation and not just react to it. Basically, just not let its customers down.

[sebastien.kalonji]

The video's just make me more think there is something very wrong with Vista. You don't see the people actually use Vista. You only get to see them say "oh i want it" or "it's so fast". Maybe they showed them an Airbook at that moment or some kind of linux.

I still remember the the stockphoto model with the testimonial of switching from mac to windows, the so-called 'user experience' came from a PR rep working for a company retained by Microsoft.

I rather believe people that actually use it than people that were able to attend a demo given my MS themselves. If MS can't convince these people by let them try it themselves shows how bad MS thinks Vista is to be.

Can be used for demo but not used by real people.

[dishevel]

Why doesn't Microsoft tell us what version of Vista they used and what the specs for the laptop were? Pretty cool video website though. And I didn't even need to install Silverlight!

[Ilgaz]

2 Gigabyte RAM installed high end HP laptop. ;)

[AlbooMED]

@dishevel

They did:
We used an HP Pavilion DV2500. It had 2GB of RAM and was running an Intel Core 2 Duo CPU T7500 @ 2.20GHz. The OS was a 32 bit version of Windows Vista Ultimate.

Oh and on the website is said no one gave it a lower ranking, so don't know where Fried got that info.

[Penguinisto]

You know? Even when comparing XP to Vista, one can get more spare power out of a laptop with those specs (meaning more useful work can be done) than with Vista. Consider for example 3D artwork. A typical scene render (with full ray-traced shadows and Ambient Occlusion Lighting)that would take 20 minutes on XP would take nearly 45 minutes on Vista. The only difference being, the underlying resources and how much of them that the OS itself eats.

This is what MSFT has to overcome. I wish 'em luck, because Vista as it is now won't let them.

[michaelo1966]

The problem is that Vista isn't a perception problem; it's a real problem. Vista's buggy -- SP1's a lot better, but it still blows. My work desktop (two dual-cores and 4GB of RAM w/ a giant video card) w/ Vista Biz runs relatively well, though still have to manually kill and restart explorer sometimes b/c normally auto-hidden start bar becomes stuck. But my home laptop; newer dual core chip w/ 2GB of RAM and 128MB built in intel video driver running Vista Ultimate w/ Aero turned off is a basket case; crashes due to video incompatibility, slow, 2/3rds of shutdowns are manual power-down's after waiting over five min for vista to exit normally, slow to start ... it's the most unstable OS I've owned in a really long time and I'm not imagining that.

[craigber]

Video issues are more likely due to the video driver, not the OS...which means it's the responsibility of the driver manufacturer, not Microsoft.

[sanenazok]

Source of problem on home PC is a codec pack, I guarantee it.

[blsith]

As a retort to this guy - I've had Home Premium running on my home machine for gaming for about 2 months now, and it's as good as any operating system that I've used in the past. It's been stable, to the point where I haven't had to restart it from any crashes, and has run multiple intensive applications at the same time without a massive decrease in performance for any application.

So, perception definitely is one of the issues because people seldom hear from the folks that are running it well. Point is, Microsoft needs to push Intel to get their graphics chips up to spec such that Aero works right.

[kelmon]

@blsith & craigber

Assuming that you are correct and that the video drivers are the cause of the problems, what is the user expected to do about it to resolve the issue? You may be entirely correct that the problem is Intel rather than Microsoft's fault, but for the end-user nothing is going to change unless either Intel releases better drivers or they replace their computer with one that is more "Vista Ready". It's going to be hard not to knock Vista if it doesn't perform on a computer that it should do. The customer certainly shouldn't have to worry about drivers and the blame game doesn't help.

@ sanenazok

Let's hope your theory is the correct one.

[ppgreat]

"What??? This is (Folger's) (Pizza Hut pasta) (Pepsi) (tap water)?!? Wow!"

[ppgreat]

"What??? This is (Folger's) (Pizza Hut pasta) (Pepsi) (tap water)?!? Wow!"

This 'experiment' seems to be very tightly controlled. A lot of talk about Vista to set up the punch line. What would the experiment have been like if they had shown the interviewees OS X, Vista, and Ubuntu Linux?

[celticbrewer]

"What would the experiment have been like if they had shown the interviewees OS X, Vista, and Ubuntu Linux?"

The average person?
OS X: what do you mean (insert favorite software here) isn't compatible?
Vista: well, we know what they said
Ubuntu: How the hell do I.... (insert anything here)
XP: Oh ya, I remember this from the past 8 years.

Hey, I love Linux, but it's not for joe six-pack and sally soccer-mom.

[Penguinisto]

@celtic - I doubt it... even whether they actually got to use it hands-on is still a mystery. We don't even know if these "users" were actual users, or paid actors.

[Dalkorian]

Doesn't it say something that M$ has to trick people into liking fista? Just wait until these hapless victims take it home and try to deal with it on a daily basis!

[Lerianis]

I deal with it on a day to day basis and have absolutely no problems with it.... and neither do my friends, who are nowhere near the 'grand master' status that they laughingly use on me when it comes to Vista and XP.

[SteamChip]

Microsoft convinced some people that a 50 dollar bill with an upside-down portrait of Abbie Hoffman is actually NOT counterfeit as these individuals thought earlier. Will Microsoft show us what happens when those people actually bring that bill to the bank?

[Kev Orng]

So a bunch of "average" computer users with only basic knowledge are given a five or ten minute demo and now I should trust their opinion on the matter? I'm sorry, but I wouldn't accept their take on it whether they were talking about Vista, OSX, or Linux. Or cars, or real estate or any other investment. It's nothing against them, or the product. It's just that if I'm going to consider other people's opinions in a purchasing decision, then I'd prefer to consider opinions from people with some kind of demonstrated knowledge of the matter. Someone who isn't an actor as well

And that's another thing; as soon as I'm looking at an edited video, I make assumptions about what has been cut out. Why? Because I'm a video editor, and I know what kind of decisions I would make to make a product that the client is happy with.

[cary1]

The videos are not showing that Vista is best. The videos are just trying to prove that Vista is better than it is actually perceived by people. I have seen people who criticize Vista but have never used it.

[Kev Orng]

I'm not saying that the videos are showing that vista is best, or better, or anything. What I'm saying is that if its a video, its been edited. Seems like a "duh" statement, but I don't think most people keep that top of mind when watching this kind of testimonial.
Even if there are no cuts, the camera operator is still making edit decisions with the record button.

Basically my point is, that the "live testimonials from actual people" approach doesn't work for me, and I'm more than happy to discuss at length why and try to convince you, but I'll spare you.

[bajanx]

Well its not just average customers, its people like apple loving leo leport who is actually saying its a solid OS now with one yr under its belt. I don't have it yet but i use my roommate laptop with home premium install and its tight as hell. In the process of building and will be getting vista home premium with the awesome media center. I'm out!

[Jasmynn_Enz]

I agree with ya' Kev. I think a lot of folks may not know what they want in an OS because in some ways, computers seem to imtimidate people.
. Average joe, just web surfs, types papers and checks email, they don't want or need(probably wouldn't want to handle complicaitions.)

I'm not whatcha' call an average computer user. I built first desktop when it was more affordable to do that opossed to buying a canned machine. I don't want or need complciaitions either. Vista looks pretty, but unless the machine it's in has the higher RAM, NAVIA VId card and race horse processor to accomidate it, it'll only chock in other older machines. I haven't found out what it's barest requirments are. If those cna be found and taikor a version to work at that starting point it'll be more palletable. maybe.:-0
.
I think the problem is Vista 'needs' too much to work with it's curent encarnation. Have differant 'flavors" of the OS to suit various pc systems. Start there. Talior to those types of PCs .
Have a program that'll inspect the machine's system and help the user to tailor a Vista version(which would be there) to work to it's full potential on that machine without sacrificing quality or the machine's lifespan.:-)

[cosuna]

Great., another Pepsi challenge. So why then is Pepsi number two. But this is worse. This is New Coke. It won hands down in every blind test done with the public, but how come it flopped in the whole U.S. Of course, down here they shoveled down our throat with nobody complaning.

Let wait till this people buy a Vista machine and start using it for just 1 week. I've been a Vista user since October and it really sucks. I haven't downgraded 'cause I like the challenge, but this time it's gonna take until Service Pack 3, for this thing to really work.

BTW, it even has some spelling mistakes (in Spanish) when it goes into Hibernation. Whose gonna believe that they delved into the good stuff if they can't correct the easy ones.

[tdreher]

I like how they used flash rather than silverlight.

[davwelt]

Yea right!!! If you believe the video I have a bridge and some land to sell you. I just want my money back since Vista is now my coaster for my coffee cup. Microsoft threw themselves under the bus and now they want to drag there customers with them. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

[compudoc318]

Is this forum all mac and linux fanboys...? I dont think microsoft is trying to convince the user who has used vista and didnt like it to change their minds. I think they are going after the average idiot who hates vista cause its "cool" to hate microsoft, but they've never even tried it. I say if youve tried it and dont like it, I have no problem with that, but im tired of all these people bashing something theyve never tried.

[Penguinisto]

Maybe they're XP fanboys? ;)

[Kev Orng]

Yeah, having read this thread and a previous one*, it seems like the people most vocal about being anti-Vista actually HAVE tried it, or at least they claim to have. As far as I can tell, the Mac and Linux folks have piped in here and there but the most compelling comments seem to be from people who have tried or are trying Vista, and have reverted to XP.

As to the Mac and Linux folks, you can be a child and dismiss every word they say because they're just "fanboys", but the fact is that most Mac and Linux users are dual citizens. They might choose Mac or Linux for home, or use it part-time at work, but if there is a Mac or Linux user out there who does not have sufficient working experience with Windows XP to be able to competently discuss Windows XP, then I'd be really surprised. Probably less so with Vista, but honestly, I just don't see all the anti-Vista comments from Mac and Linux users that you're referring to. There are some, but a minority. The rest are from XP and Vista users.

*The previous thread:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-9998336-56.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-5

[technewsjunkie]

You wrote "I have no problem with that, but im tired of all these people bashing something theyve never tried."

Kinda like most of the bashers of Macs. They've never user OS X yet because it's an Apple product they diss it.

[jake_n]

I bought a new laptop last month and almost kept Vista on it. It was much improved in the last year since I took it off another laptop. But I need access to all of my shared files on my network using linux, windows 98, win2k and xp. This was a no go.

[sanenazok]

Huh? I use Vista to access NT 4.0 Server, Windows 2000, and shares via Samba. Vista has the same accessibility options as previous versions; I think they only dropped NetBEUI...

[timber2005]

Sanenazok is correct... Infact all my network storage is stored on two machines, one running XP (an old pIII 900mhz) and one running Fedora 9 (AMD 1000mhz) and connect to it from my three Vista computers (an Everex laptop x500t, a Dell Insprion 1150 and a HP a642n)

Omg did something just give SPECIFICATIONS to their system? And two of those are XP machines *gasp*

[NWLB]

It speaks to basic issue for MS: people don't trust them. They now have as bad a reputation as the U.S. based auto industry. Maybe worse than that actually.

[RHartzell]

Jeez -- I just clicked through on a Mojave Experiment ad on the NY Times web site and discovered that Microsoft's game-changing promotion (at mojaveexperiment.com) took *over a minute* to load on my machine at work. Weirder still, I sat there staring at the Mojave Experiment screen wondering what the hell was going on and it took a good 20 seconds before I noticed that the lab flask icon in the middle was gradually filling with a sloshing white liquid overprinted with the seconds ticking by in black.

How ironic is it that Microsoft's Vista web campaign takes forever to load on a PC running Windows XP and IE 6?

[AlbooMED]

You're still using IE6, what is wrong with you. Get with the times buddy, IE7, or at least mozilla.

[Kev Orng]

@AlbooMED, I agree with you, but in his defense, There are still a lot of companies that are forcing the users to stay at IE6. I know of a few that friends and family work at. These are the same types of places where you're not allowed to install FireFox (or anything else).

The reason for this is that IE7 is a baby step towards open standards (not a big enough step, but a step nonetheless), and therefore it caused a lot of compatibility issues with certain MS and third party enterprise apps that were tied up in Microsoft's proprietary IE6 web standards. So some companies are holding the line at IE6 to avoid problems.

[bartnj]

That's funny. I was about to post the same thing. The videos don't even work, take forever to buffer, and keep pausing on me.
I'm sure MS will say that is because "Te servers are overloaded" or something because this ad campaign is so popular.

I'm not an MS basher, and I don't use Vista. Still very ok with XP Pro SP2. But this non working flash site just ads to al the bad things I've already heard.

[naterandrews]

Users cannot get the whole experience from a few minute demo, let alone a test drive.
You need to see what the experience is like to install non-native Vista apps, install drivers, etc. then a TRUE rating can be given.

I am not a Vista hater- its an OK system. But what makes me irked is, I WANT to like it but cant. The big features we waited for in Vista? IE7, WMP11, Instant Search, Media Center, Photo Gallery, Live Mail are NON exclusive to Vista. IE and WMP are widely available on XP. Instant Search and Media Center functionality can be installed through other apps or through MCE + Microsoft Live Desktop.

Give me features that are only available on Vista, a reason to go "Premium" besides an interface that only has translucent EDGES of windows and a version of DX I could care less about then we might be able to talk about how you can part me from a couple hundred bucks. Until then, it's merely "OK".

[tdreher]

"Give me features that are only available on Vista, a reason to go "Premium" besides an interface that only has translucent EDGES of windows"

http://www.stardock.com/ They have been letting windows do this for years before Vista, so now you have no reason to "upgrade"

[AlbooMED]

DX10

[Norseman]

So....this is what Microsoft got for $300M?

[AlbooMED]

NO

[cary1]

"What would the experiment have been like if they had shown the interviewees OS X, Vista, and Ubuntu Linux?"

I don't know about OS X, but Ubuntu blows. I used it for 8 months on my home desktop before I replaced it with XP.

[tdreher]

What Blows about Ubuntu? The price, the speed, or the reliability?

I know you can not use all the programs you want, well you can with wine, but most new users wont, but still when you compare what you pay for with Ubuntu vs Vista, it blows it out of the water.

[brickman5721]

Just curious, would you care to elaborate on why Ubuntu "blows"? Was it not free enough for you? Do you have an El Cheapo Dell with the world's worst possible components? Did you honestly think you could install your WINDOWS apps on it? I don't particularly like when people make broad, overgeneralized statements about something as complicated as an OS. I run Vista next to Ubuntu on my laptop and I will be the first to admit that there's things you can't do in Ubuntu that you can do in Vista. But I still spend the vast majority of my time in Ubuntu when it is feasible to do so. Why? Because I personally find it more enjoyable to work with and I firmly believe that given the chance, others would too. Statements like "Vista blows" or "Ubuntu blows" don't help anyone.