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1. Confusion? Nobody will be "buying" the standard/lowest cost version. It will come on bottom-feeding machines. To get more features, people will be prompted to buy a higher license. This is nowhere worse than shareware that's been around for decades. Are people confused by demo versions of games??
2. Upgrade fails: chance are it'll just "unlock" features that are turned off. While MS could possibly screw this up, most likely they won't. This won't be a full upgrade, which tend to have problems even in a walled garden. I think there was a story about failed OS X upgrades the last time around.
3. CC processing: complete FUD. It's not the computer that will be processing the transaction, but rather a SSL-secured server.
4. Hardware assumption - I'll give this to you partially, but it shouldn't be that hard to run a benchmark to determine which features (7Aero) will work and which won't.
Speaking of Apple Tax, pizza for four is generally less than $129 Apple charges for upgrades, and the Apple upgrades don't add as many features as an upgrade from the worst version of 7 to Home Premium.
1. Nobody will be buying the standard version? So I won't find it for sale on its own at Best Buy? Like I do Windows Vista Basic? I guarantee you people will buy it, and if they can't run more than 3 programs at a time, they will be livid.
3. Windows, several aspects of, has been hacked several times. If holes are left open, hackers might find a way to grab credit card information. I wouldn't shrug off the concern of stolen credit cards as "complete FUD."
As for the Apple upgrade claim, that is complete ********. You pay an upgrade fee for a newer OS. There is one flavor of the OS: Mac OS X. There aren't "Basic," "Home Premium," and "Ultimate." You only ever pay to upgrade to a new version of the OS. And the upgrade cost is the same as the full install cost. You pay $129 for the complete OS X software. Even at an upgrade price, you can only get Basic for that price. The pizza price only applies after paying for the basic Windows (buying a new computer is paying for Windows).
Sorry, but I can't tolerate such inaccuracies being spread.
1. No, you won't see Windows 7 Starter (it's actual SDK) at Best Buy. It will only be available through OEMs. Vista (and 7) Home Basic is not the same as 7 (and Vista) Starter. There was also a Vista Starter, with the same limitations of 7 Starter, available only to 3rd world countries, and Vista home basic was only available through OEMs. 7 Home Basic will take that role, and Starter will only be for super-low requirement things. The only versions of 7 that will be on the shelf are Home Premium and Professional; Ultimate will only be available through Anytime Upgrade.
3. Credit card information can be hacked from bank and shopping websites too; what's your point?
Apple charges $129 for far more frequent upgrades than those of Microsoft. Starting at 2001 and going to 2010, Microsoft will have released XP, Vista, and 7. Apple will have released 7 versions of OSX. In the end, the Apple early adopter will have spent more on upgrades than the Microsoft early adopter. As for the "pizza," it depends on how the price of basic Windows + upgrade costs compares to the price of OSX.
Sorry, but I can't tolerate such inaccuracies being spread either.
You obviously have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to OS X upgrades and features. Please provide us with some examples of these "features" missing from OS X compared to Win. 7. Utter FUD otherwise!!
1. Ok, I misunderstood. Thank you for correcting me, I don't like to spread inaccuracies either.
3. My point was that sanenazok didn't seem at all concerned that credit card information might somehow be taken by hackers. Windows has had security problems in the past, so it's possible that hackers could access that information. I was simply agreeing with the author.
Just because Microsoft hasn't released Windows versions as much lately doesn't mean they will continue to wait so long between versions in the future. Windows 3.1 was released in 1993, 95 in 98, 98 and 98 SE in 98, and ME in 99. Then, XP in 2001. Windows releases used to be more frequent than OS X. Also, Apple constantly updates its technology, whereas Windows takes a while. Apple hardware is expensive, nobody can deny that, but their software is priced much better than Microsoft's. Also, tell me something that Vista offered over XP that newer versions of OS X don't offer. I've used both Windows and OS X, and upgrades in both offer a lot. Apple releases newer versions of OS X more frequently because they are more responsive to their customers' needs.
As for Vista, I don't like it very much, and I can't really tell you what it may or may not offer over XP or OSX (other than hardware compatibility). Also, for Windows users who aren't buying new computers, "Upgrade Installation" disks, which only work if you let it see a valid previous copy of Windows, cost far less than Full Installation disks; just thought that might be worth knowing.
Long story short: most Apple products are more expensive than they are worth. (This applies mostly to hardware)
#2, I agree, partially. Problem is, that 'unlock' can still go wrong (see also Windows Server 2008 and activations in organizations that do not deploy a Key Management Server).
#3, the author is right - it is a convenient place to put a couple of hooks to capture or retrieve CC card info, depending on how Microsoft implements it.
#4, the author is right, completely. It doesn't take much to envision a typical user seeing Aero in the store demos, expecting it at home, and getting angry that it won't run.
1. No, they're bragging on how Home Premium will be the standard on all netbooks. They are bragging more on how any version of 7 will run smoothly on netbooks.
2. There's always a chance of failure. For everything.
3. Again, no more dangerous than a shopping website.
4. People managing a store demo would be sure to let the average user know that something low end like a netbook might not be able to use Aero.
Some people like that choice, and don't want to pay $1800 for a device to surf the internet and write emails.
"As Microsoft continues to tout the Apple Tax, perhaps it should look inward a bit and realize that people are willing to pay for Apple products for the high-quality user experience, not settle for a sub-par experience on a product they use every day"
Is it your analysis of market share that helped you form this conclusion?
Apple is not gaining steady marketshare actually their sales as of current are slumpng as the PC market thrives.
The PC market is thriving? I'm pretty sure it's also been hit by the economic downturn...
Its doing a hell of alot better then the Mac market.
Apple is probably losing marketshare atm to be honest with you.
Anything that costs more than 1$ is to me overly overcharged. There is NOTHING in Win7 worth those money, and that I cannot do with free software.
Running Linux and proud of it. I like to see people justifying MS or Apple for restrictions that have nothing technical....
Some of us HAVE money and don't quibble about the little things.
You obviously misunderstood my point. It's not about being "cheap". It's about paying the right price for the right product. From your post I assume you can waste money on programs that could be free. Good for you.
@ZetaZeta_
I run Linux and I dpn't spend time any time at all getting it to work. I bought PCs and netbooks with linux preinstalled. I get automatic updates. I get all the programs I need through a centralized system. Everytime I use Windows: I waste time: booting all the possible programs windows decides to run at boot, update antivirus, everypiece of programs needs hos won program to run updates or to do something (most of the time taking CPU time). In addition, to keep it clean Windows needs periodic tasks that are from a different era: defrag, keeping temp files under control, keeping the registry clean. All these things are both annoying and time consuming. In pre-installed linux everything works.
Things may be different if you need to install it from scratch, but the same is true for windows to some extent (hunting fro drivers, going through several manual downloads and installs....).
Great that you run Linux. Funny that you don't realize that any other OS also requires time though. I spent more time fixing and maintaining Windows than I do fixing and maintaining Linux.
If time costs money and Windows costs money but Linux doesn't, then Windows is still more expensive by the same amount plus some because of the added costs of your time.
Oh, let's not forget that most modern Linux distros are capable of running on older hardware at the same productivity levels as current versions of Windows do on brand new hardware.
He must have had a brain fart or something.
Starter will not be used on virtually anything I can guarantee it.
If starter was ever used it be used on something that couldn't handle more then 3 apps open anyways.
In an above post, I asked this same question. If Linux can do it, why can't Windows?
In other words, Linux is able to run more than those three apps on that same system than Windows Starter will only allow three apps to run on. It's not a hardware limitation, it's a software limitation.
@DrtyDogg
If it doesn't get installed on netbooks, why even bother making it? Was MS just seeing how bad an OS they could make?
Background apps don't count in the 3 app limit and it will probably never be used.
I digress that it's still a matter of what you need - I'm no more pro microsoft than pro apple or pro open source os'es for that matter. I'm an IT professional so I run windows because all my clients run windows. I'm familiar with it and It's easy to work with and I have alot of control over my os. Not to mention that if someone develops software, it's most likely going to be on windows. I see that as a great compromise between linux and apple.
One thing apple users have to understand is that the only reason windows os is the target of the most malware is because it's the most popular, by far. If any other os was the most popular then it would be targeted, but right now it's just not profitable or worth anyone's time to screw with apple users (although some people DO)
Don't go waving that around like your os is superior because of it though. ALL fanboys need to quit complaining and just provide support and advocacy; instead of this 'your sht sucks, go away and let us wallow in our greatness' nonsense.
As Bill Gates said: "Who needs more than 640K?". This isn't innovation, is a monopolistic way to control your freedom. If you are OK with this, you should also be OK with buying a car that doesn't go faster than 55mph unless you buy a premium package, or a phone that locks you down to a specific network...
Windows Starter (XP and Vista) is being pushed in the third world through system builders who've balked at paying the OEM price of regular Windows.
The idea here is to give the system builders something cheap, yet legit, to ship their machines with and try to squeeze the foregone dollars from the consumers. It might work if the payments system is convenient. Most people around the world don't have International credit cards to purchase an online upgrade. Among those who do, many are reluctant to use these for online transactions.
There needs to be an option to purchase a upgrade code from a local computer store with the activation codes to make it convenient for the consumer--more convenient than finding a local geek who'll reformat the volume and install pirated full version Windows.
One of the bigger annoyances of Vista is that OEMs ship consumer computers with Vista Basic, and the only upgrade path for consumers is to buy FPP Windows Vista (since they can't purchase the OEM anymore once they realize how deficient Vista Home is).
I see the logic, but it doesn't mean I agree with it.
> Mac users didn't get nickeled and dimed as time went along, they got raped right off the bat.
Raped? How do you figure? Anybody who bought a Mac KNEW WHAT THEY WERE GETTING. It was a personal choice. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it wrong.
> They [Mac users, right?] also will never be happy with microsoft's decisions because [they're] microsoft.
> If their [Microsoft's] OS was a near replica of OSX they [Apple users, I presume] would be even more fervently upset than now.
Stereotype much?
> I digress that it's still a matter of what you need - I'm no more pro microsoft than pro apple or pro open source os'es for that matter.
Maybe not, but you sure seem anti-Apple.
I have to say that I use a MacBook, several PCs using Windows (including the MacBook), one using FreeBSD, several systems using various forms of Linux (including setting up an Ubuntu server at work to run version control and bug tracking). Apple wants me to keep spending money, yeah, but they don't go out of their way to stab me in the back to get it.
If I hate Microsoft ("hate" might be a bit strong, but whatever) it's because I perceive them as greedy money-grubbing back-stabbing rat dastards, not "just because they're Microsoft." Over the decades I've watched them treat their customers shabbily and back-stab their partners. I see them lie, cheat, steal, and bully.
But you know what? It doesn't matter. Microsoft will do what they will, and my bad opinion of them doesn't matter a whit. It's like spitting into the wind. But if they screw enough people often enough, something is going to change eventually.
Raped by Apple? I can't see how you figure that, when it's Microsoft who is using deceptive and confusing marketing practices. Not that Apple is a bunch of angels, mind you, I'm not arguing that. Nevertheless I think you have the wrong end of that stick.
Charging higher prices is not "rape." Tricking and forcing customers to upgrade... well, that's not rape either, but it's certainly unpleasant, and not very ethical.
BTW, when I got this MacBook I could not find a system with similar specs for as good a price. I'd have had to pay at least a couple hundred dollars more to Dell, for example. It's a refurb I've had for over two years. Since then I've replaced the keyboard and the DVD writer (liquid damage, my own fault), the hard drive died (I got warranty replacement), I've upgraded the RAM, am looking to upgrade the hard drive, and I still get decent performance out of the battery. Please tell me how I've been raped?
One thing apple users have to understand is that the only reason windows os is the target of the most malware is because it's the most popular, by far.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Uh-huh. OS 9 had a number of viruses in the wild that effected it, yet a considerably smaller market share than OS X currently has. This fact proves you have no idea what you're talking about and therefore your entire post is worthless and invalidated.
Regarding confusion/anger:
1 - Since Vista, errors and warnings in Windows have been exceptionally clear (thanks to the Windows Vista 'Tone').
2 - It does state pretty clearly what version of Windows you are buying when you purchase a new computer, AND every time you logon.
3 - The media will DEFINITELY complain about it, but actual consumers won't care.
How can you assume they are going to have problems?
Maybe because Windows 7 has such a large amount of positive feedback, there's less information to troll/use as flamebait, so the media is now picking out things that are a nonissue in hope they will get article views and fanboy flame wars.
I do have to agree with feranick though, just go get Ubuntu or some other flavor of Linux for a solid and free computing experience.
As far as Apple goes, I'll pass - it's just not worth the money.
Another ill informed user. I think PC fans should open up to other options and seriously consider Mac. I notice that a lot of the hardcore Mac fan these days are people who migrated to Mac because they were frustrated with MS. I am one of these them and I will never ever go back to using a PC, ever! Compare to a PC, you have to pay more up front when you purchase a Mac BUT Macs a fully loaded with great apps and trouble free out of the box! I have 6 Macs (ibook, imac, macbook, mb pro, mac pro n mac mini) and none of which has had ANY hardware or software problems. Features like Time Machine and FULL USABLE APPS like iLife which comes together with Mac OS X are powerful, stable and easy to use. One reason why VIsta media suite resembles iLife interface and features!!! Macs are easy to upgrade and every since migrating to Mac, I do get excited with the new features that comes with every Mac update. Plus, Macs have great after sales tech support, the came can't be said for DELL, HP, or COMPAQ (oh, lets not even go there!! LOL)
I like to see someone buying a cheap PC with Windows Vista, take into account the time and cost it takes to get rid of the JUNK and DEMOS that come with that PC and install FULL FEATURE software to match ANY MAC out of the box and see how far you get!! Macs are great value! To me, I value my work, my time and my data. I'm a MAC and PROUD OF IT!!!
Really thats why the starting price to use Time Machine is $500?"
More FUD!! Time Capsule starts at $299 for 500GB, which also has a built in Wireless N router . The 1TB model is $500. Nice try though.
Really thats why the starting price to use Time Machine is $500?"
Oh and I solved my backup needs for $90, which got me a 500GB external drive with USB2.0 and firewire connections and it works just fine with Time Machine. Time Capsule is really for those who need a wireless router and backup in one package.
They make it out to be on their site that you need time capsule...
Besides, its not really so much a Mac vs PC argument. Like both? get Both. Also, Macs are simply PCs with a bundled operating system. Need to use Windows? There's a built-in dual boot utility--just purchase a Windows license and use that on Apple's hardware.
Now, if I could only legally run Mac OS X on my Thinkpads...
The few, the proud, the arrogant.
Toss in Ubuntu and Android and I'm right there with you. Maybe do an OS Death-Match kind of thing.
thank you.
...But first you have to buy Windows.
How's that? :P
The only question we have is: Will the 64-bit version of Windows 7 run our existing base of 32-bit software?
Genieve, Eric, Mariebeth & Stephanie (gemsFamily)
http://www.my-msi.net
geez, there is always a choice!
Do you have to build your own or buy 'bare bones' just to run Windows? Last I looked, it was everywhere.
Funny thing is, in order to find Linux preinstalled, you have to go directly to the manufacturors website. If Linux didn't sell, they wouldn't preinstall it but MS has the in store models locked up tight.
Linux users, in other words, have to do a little online dance just to get an OEM model with our OS installed.
How about, instead of having 99% of machines preinstalled with Windows, every machine comes with no OS and everybody has to go out and get their own. Or better yet, just install a machine with all the OS software on it. When you purchase a computer, you go over to that machine and put in the appropriate amount for your OS of choice. Linux users can buy machines and walk out the door or have the machine install it for you for $0.25 or whatever the cost is for the power used. Windows users can buy a machine and purchase a Windows license or have the machine install Windows along with the OEM crapware for $100 or whatever is being charged for an OEM version of Windows these days.
That sounds fair to me. Think MS will go for it and release their stranglehold on stores any time soon?
Anybody?
In that case, there's a literal catch :)
- by RichieP6 April 11, 2009 8:57 AM PDT
- What's with all these mac users saying the reason to pay out the wazoo for a mac is because it has better tech support? If your mac doesn't have problems, how do you know you have good tech support? If you call the tech support, you mac is a p.o.s. I have a generic pc running Vista and I don't know anything about the tech support because I haven't needed it. Vista runs great.
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- by seven7dust April 11, 2009 2:21 PM PDT
- so your saying all Windows users are problem free ? just because you dont ?
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- by Seaspray0 April 12, 2009 10:00 AM PDT
- @sevendust. But neither can the author claim the vast majority of windows users will end up frustrated and annoyed by having to upgrade windows 7 starter. That is pure FUD since it isn't even available yet.
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- by odubtaig April 12, 2009 11:36 AM PDT
- It's called a prediction meth-brain.
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- by seven7dust April 13, 2009 6:56 AM PDT
- @seaspray
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- by Seaspray0 April 13, 2009 9:41 AM PDT
- @sevendust. There is no doubt in my mind that it is a tactic to compete with linux.
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- by odubtaig April 13, 2009 11:52 AM PDT
- Since you clearly don't even know what a prediction is...
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Showing 1 of 3 pages (138 Comments)By the way, I've never heard of Vista Starter. And since this article claims "The vast majority of Windows users will end up frustrated and annoyed" by having to upgrade windows 7 starter, I guess I've somehow managed to never meet a member of "the vast majority." That's pretty amazing.
Gret Logic BTW
and calling tech support isn't only for problems
it's also for people new to the Mac O.S for general Q&A stuff !
By your logic, if I predict that hitting 100 people in the face will annoy at least 99 of them, that's FUD because it hasn't happened yet despite it being obvious from basic, entry level, knowledge that people don't like being hit in the face.
I'm not saying whether Dave's right or not, but your argument sucks harder than the intake of a 747's engine.
Really.
I mean, seriously, I'd like to know what drugs you've been taking so I can avoid them.
yes I disagree with the article as well
but wat I dis-agree with more is Windows 7 starter edition
it just seems like a cheap marketing tactic to prevent competition from Linux !
@odubtaig. It's not stated as a prediction, by Dave. It's a concrete statement by Dave (quote: "vast majority of Windows users") that has no substantial fact to back it up. I'd say that comes close enough to your "hitting 100 people in the face will annoy at least 99 of them, that's FUD".
@Dave Rosenburg. Hey, Dave! Quit Posting FUD or you're going to upset odubtaig.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/predict
Predict: 1) to declare or tell in advance
2) to foretell the future
Now, Dave made a claim in future tense. "vast majority of Windows users will...". He 'declared in advance'.
This is the very defintion of a prediction. It does not have to be declared as a prediction. There are no special rules with predictions. They're defined by their own manner of speaking in the future tense and making a claim as to what will happen.
Which part of this are you not getting?
If I say "I'm going to make some tea now", this is a prediction. I do not have to declare it as such. I have stated that something will occur in the future, ergo it just is a prediction.
It's at times like this that I wonder how some people manage to find the brain power to string two words together, never mind go 'round acting as if they're somehow superior to everone else.