Comments on: Author: Apple (and its branding) like a religion

Martin Lindstrom, who wrote the new book Buyology, weighs in on the power of Apple, its products, and its community of users.

[Kev_Orng]

The community may be cult-like in some way, but when it comes right down to it, calling it a religion implies that the decision to buy Apple isn't based on rational thought. I choose Apple products based on extensive experience with computers going back to the Amiga 1000. I use both Mac and Windows everyday, but I prefer the Mac, and besides, with the amount of graphics power I need in video production, the Apple ecosystem is more cost effective. A Mac Pro or MacBook Pro with Final Cut Studio installed and a Matrox i/o dongle is about half the price of a similarly equipped Windows system running Avid.

[Alex Alexzander]

Perhaps, but then Avid Media Composer actually works...

Alex Alexzander
Co-founder of the San Francisco and Los Angeles Avid User Groups
Contributor to the LAFCPUG
Author: Designing Menus with DVD Studio Pro

P.S. It's a religion. Anyone with any brains can plainly see that a PC cost half as much and has a far greater software opportunity than the Mac has. There is nothing a Mac can do that a PC can't. But that does not hold true in the reverse. That's why Apple fails in the enterprise. And please, don't start that, "they don't want to be in the enterprise" bull. Jobs wants to be where the money is. Problem is, he's clueless in the enterprise, and thus Apple has no hope there. Jobs may be what is right with Apple. But he's also what's wrong with Apple.

[umbrae]

Apple is a religion and buying an Apple is not based on rational thought. It is an impulse, and is never cheaper in the long run. You buy Apple for style alone since every other machine does the same thing: even the core architecture is just an average PC.

[todd_sheets]

Incorrect.

I used Windows based PCs for 20 years believing the same thing...until I used a Mac. And Macs are more expensive up front but lower cost in the long term with saved time, longer life of the machine and lower cost software. I agree the Apple style is nice but I would run OSX on a beige box before I would use a Windows machine again.

[zenwaves]

Heresy!

[D3vildog699]

@Tood_Sheets

You say longer life of the machine, i pull the BS card on you... I have had my windows machines for years with no issues or the need to replace them.

[Curmudge]

There is also the problem of letting the word "religion" mean (more simply) brand-identification, or preference. Such a devaluation of the word certainly does fit with modernist and post-modernist notions -- i.e. all religions are the same, one just has a brand preference for one over the other. This, as opposed to that a religion is a cosmology (set of precepts), which are either true or not -- and not dependent on preference.

Brand identification is hardly new. Back in my youth, I had seen car buff friends split into Ford vs Mopar sects with very similar heated sniping and condescension as appears in the Windows vs Mac scuffles. Was there a Mopar religion? We see a similar "zeal" between sports fans. The Yankees vs. Red Sox rancor gets even more heated than any Mac v Windows spat. Yet, how many would elevate Yankee's fandom or Red Sox mania to the status of a religion?

Seems overstated, perhaps for effect.

[Penguinisto]

That's funny - I bought my old dual G5 in 2004 because I wanted a solid machine that lasted a long time. So far, it has held up very well to that promise (and has outlived multiple PC-based laptops and desktops). Macs hold a higher value over a longer period of time, and I have had zero problems with the thing since the day it arrived at my house.

Is it perfect? No. Do I worship it? No. It shares the house with mutiple PC's and laptops.

That said, I know quality when I see it, and the Mac is as close to pure quality as one could hope to get in the computing world. I've given away an ancient 1994-era MacBook that still ran like a champ (you had to plug it in - laptop batteries tend to die off after 11 years of use) with MacOS9 on it... I gave it away in 2005, and at last check, the family's 6-year-old kid is still using it as a basic Internet machine.

/P

[compudoc318]

its the same in the pc world, ive seen 10 year old pcs with win me and 256 ram still plugging along with no problems, the thing is anyone can make a pc, so there are cheap ones with cheap parts, but at least there is a choice instead of a quality mac, someone on a budget cant afford a mac.

[Mac User Too]

This is amazing leap to try to explain something you truly do not understand. Is appreciation of opera a religion? How about expensive (presumably fine) wines? What about the passion some people display for exquisite automobiles. Sailboat racing? Mountain climbing? Reading? Sex? Unlike religion, all of these predilections involve an appreciation for something tangible. You experience it, expectation met or exceeded, your feeling is reinforced, and so on. Religion on the other hand requires faith, often in large measure. Belief in the intangible, in the face of adversity (sometimes because of the adversity) is a key component of religious doctrine. For Apple to be like a religion, Apple's mistakes would have to succeed. On the few occasions that Apple does release a clunker, the product fails and Apple is taken to task by the tech media and its customers. This is proof that Apple is nothing like a religion. Expectations were not met. It's a lot like the support a sports team receives. Perennial winners enjoy abject adulation from their fans. They wear the colors, sing the songs, buy the merch, visit the web site and listen to talk shows. But when the team begins losing consistently, it's 'throw the bums out!' and the boo-birds come home to roost. Try that in church.
Lindstrom and Terdiman in their opinion of Apple are a lot like my wife and sports. She doesn't understand it and from her vantage point it looks a lot like a religion (after all services are every Sunday in the NFL). But she is wrong, and so are Lindstrom and Terdiman. One last thought: if the rest of the tech industry even approached the level of excellence that Apple routinely achieves, we wouldn't be discussing this.

[compudoc318]

"level of excellence".....this is why apple fans look like a religion. apple has issues like any other computer.

[girvin21]

RE: Umbrae

Buying a Ford truck over a Chevy or vise versa is not a rational thought but people are just as brand loyal when making that purchase. Is it not acceptable to agree to disagree? If everyone made the same decision when faced with an option it would be a very bland world. People buy what they THINK will best work for them. Life is too short to run around hating all the apple fanboys, grow up and find something you're passionate about.

[Matthew Hurst]

I very rationally use a Mac. I was very rational in buying a iPod. Cult, religion...um, OK, I thought I was buying a product that worked well and suited my needs. Maybe brand loyalty, but the rest of this discussion (and what seems to be the point of this film) seems like nonsense to me. If something better comes along I will buy it. Of course based on past purchases I will again look at Apples product when it comes time to buy a computer, MP3 player or cell phone. Doesn't mean I won't buy a Blackberry or a Dell. Even if I like whatever product in the past that I owned... a brand of car, I might look at those again and maybe even look at them first, but I'm not going to buy one again if the product isn't good, doesn't fit my needs and isn't priced right. Maybe some people take brand loyalty to a extreme, but that isn't most people. It doesn't explain Apple's raise and fall and raise again -- is a simplistic scenario for people to lazy to figure out why some companies do well and other don't. I know lots of people who use Crest! I am going to make a movie about the "Cult of Crest"!!! Watch for it.

[todd_sheets]

What a load of crap. Apple products work best so I buy them. I also buy Toyota cars because they work best but nobody is calling Toyota a religion.

[rapier1]

Why is it that every time someone talks in generalities people need to offer their own personal experiences in an attempt to counter it. The use of a generality automatically implies that there are significant exceptions to the characterization. Great, so you aren't a member of the cult. Good for you. Are you saying that because it doesn't apply to you the entire premise is wrong? Thats just idiocy.

[m4dgfxk1d]

@Matthew Hurst
Lining up in droves to spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars on the latest product that they have no personal experience with testing is not an act of faith?

@todd
You're too deep to appreciate the difference and subsequent inaccuracy of your analogy. As above, do people line up around the country/world to buy the latest Toyota offering before they have even read a real review let alone take a test drive?

[Matthew Hurst]

Faith? As in religious faith? No. Past experience with a brand or product line, yes. People who lined up to buy PS3 did so because they liked PS2 and because they had read press about the PS3 while in development. People who lined up to buy Xbox 360 did so because they liked Xbox and so on. People were on the waiting list to buy a Smart car a year before it went on sale in the US. Some people like curtain brands and some people just like to be the first. People will buy a Saab, Big Mac or a Maytag washer merely because they liked the one they bought previously and had a good experience with it. They have expectations that the brand will live up to past experiences. Perhaps they had good service or tech support experiences with a certain brand? All these things create brand loyalty. Saying that it is like belonging to a cult or comparable to religious faith seems as overstated as some ill informed fanboy boy for X, Y or Z.

[shycelticwitch]

Like most of the rest who commented here, I buy Apple computers (2 new ones every other year, and not because the old ones don't work but because my business expands) because I like the stability, the longevity (have to Mac Classics that still run) and the fact that I spend x$ one time, and get everything I need in one box. I also have a Windows PC with XP.

I have the Macs to run my business and all other aspects of my digital life. I have the PC for opening up MS Publisher files received from clients, because it's the one program Microsoft refuses to release for Mac. Not that I would ever use it for business or personal, it happens to be a low-grade "home wannabe designer" program that is hated by most professional designers. But nonetheless, a few of those "I am going to save a few bucks and design my own business card even though I don't have a creative bone in my body" clients that can't be convinced otherwise will keep a PC alive and well in my office for many years. See, they DO have their usefulness...

[G. I.]

Very true, Maczealots always remind me of Jehovah's Witnesses.

[rugisis1]

im not even a mac fan but this is pretty stupid. was gonna post a long blah blah about religion but who cares... im pretty sure most people would just return their macs if one of their expected major features were missing and wouldn't be praying for that feature to appear on their mac.

[groink_hi]

The Apple brand is very much a religion. Several things to point out:

Grass roots. Ever since Apple became a company in the late 1970s, hundreds if not thousands of Apple-oriented user groups popped up. Sure, there were many other computer clubs. But with my experience in working with CALL-APPLE, BMUG, and even participating in the AppleFEST, these clubs and other organizations set the stage for this promotional movement. Much like, for example Barack Obama's campaign, organization across the map is key. By allowing these communities, as this article labels them, to push their favorite products, it does give off a religious vibe.

Buy why? It is because Apple's story an antagonist: IBM (1980s) and Microsoft (today.) In Apple's situation, the communities have a common vision for a different kind of world. And the organization pre-dates public Internet. Even when we were hammering away with 300bps modems, these communities have already developed. And the vision does not even have to be logical - just the idea of something different is enough to energize the base.

For years, Apple users feel they enjoy a more superior user experience on many levels: better cohesion between hardware and operating system (call it proprietary or closed, but it does work), better cohesion between peripherals and OS, more standardized user interfacing, more thought put into the UI, and far less maintenance. Apple fans believe strongly that their way is better, but cannot phantom the idea that a company can own over 90-percent market share with, in the words of Steve Jobs, Microsoft's "3rd-rate products".

Apple fans believe that consumers deserve a much better technological experience. And each and every one of us has experienced something like this one time or another - where you believe you are so right about something that it will give you an ulcer knowing they're heading in a different direction.

So call it a religion. And in fact, a religion has the same principles as what you see with Apple fans: kill the demon, become re-born and enjoy technology.

[TheSoftwareMan]

Religion and your own personal beliefs break down to what makes the most sense in your world view. If a religion doesn't make sense it has no followers and dies. If it fills a spot in peoples souls, then the religion flourishes and lives. A cult relies on a charismatic leader who followers must be in the presence of to fill their souls. Apple may be a quasi-religion, but so is Wintel. It all depends on what makes your soul happy. Personally, I fill my soul with Apple and Wintel on a daily basis. I must confess, Apple makes my soul happier.

[jtwiles]

The philosophical idea that XYZ is a religion has been played out before with things like Texas football, the environmental movement, political affiliations, etc. This really says more about religion and how easily people are influenced than it does about Apple or Steve Jobs. Typically people attempting to make the connection between ?XYZ? and religion are not approaching the subject from a strict scientific standpoint but are picking and choosing data trying to reinforce their opinion on the subject. You can be guaranteed that Apple?s branding techniques are being studied in business schools around the country as have been companies like Pillsbury, Wal-Mart and all the car companies. Just listen to two rednecks argue over Chevy or Ford. I doubt anyone can argue that Apple?s influence on the consumer electronics and computer industry has done nothing but spur innovation, just look at all the copy cat products out on the market now. As far as a religion ... show me an Apple rally that can compete with 100,000 screaming Texas fans, and not just a couple of people depressed because they finally realized Apple is a business and not the path to enlightenment, and then we?ll talk.

[LunaticSX]

"it often seems as though the Apple fans treat anything that comes out of CEO Steve Jobs' mouth as the true gospel"

Right, and there haven't been huge firestorms of controversy from Apple's fans over some of Apple's recent decisions, like dropping FireWire from the latest MacBook and dropping the price of the iPhone by $200 just a couple months after it was first released.

Apple's fans are NOT the blind, faithful followers that many people like to paint them as. Steve Jobs does NOT speak the gospel. When Steve and/or Apple take actions that their fans disagree with, they call them on it. Apple's fans have high expectations of the products they buy, and THAT'S why they buy Apple. If Apple lost its high standard of quality, significant numbers of people would be switching AWAY from them, regardless of what Steve Jobs had to say, just like they did in the mid-90's.

As another example, when the iPhone was first announced in January 2007, it wasn't just a big deal to Apple fans, it was also the talk of the show at CES, hundreds of miles away. Part of that was Apple's mystique and brand awareness, but that alone wouldn't have had the impact that it did. What was most important was that the whole electronics industry knew, and still knows, that when Apple does something they do it in a way that is game-changing. Just look at the cell phone industry now: ALL the hype surrounds phones that are in one way or another iPhone imitators. With ONE product Apple managed to shake up a whole industry!

That's not faith and/or religion. That's cold, hard, reality.

[batsumishi]

To those who commented thus far:

They said it's like a religion. They didn't say it is a religion. The author is claiming that it's followers have tendencies similar to that of religious followers.

The fact that people get into such heated arguments over such a petty topic is evidence to this, but most people just call it 'being a fanboy.'

It's also interesting that this post is targetted at Apple fans specifically, seing as though the video only mentions Apple along side several other brands.

[D3vildog699]

Considered the continued abuse of their cult like fanbase, i consider it to be a religion.

[Riquez-001]

Revelation 12:9
V9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Microsoft, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

[shycelticwitch]

Hallelujah!