Comments on: The 30-year-old iPod?

iPods are disposable tech, high-end audio lasts a long, long time. The Audiophiliac ponders why more folks don't buy for the long haul.

[rs125racer]

Pubmat...what a shame!!!! Publication? Please...do you "read" about what car you should buy or what restaurant will be your favorite? In a word NO! If you compare a $100 turntable to a $100 CD player IN THE 80"s then, yes, the quality was probably better. I DO have an Linn LP12 that I've owned since 1990 and have owned one of the best CD players money could buy, a Nakamichi Dragon and Dragon DAC. Operative word here is "owned". I sold it to a guy 2 years ago because I didn't listen to it..ever. I use my LP12 every night I'm home. Do YOU listen to music that much? Likely not... Do you go and listen to music live? Again, likely not! That is the standard dude. The musical experience comes from how close your hi-fi (not crappy "stereo") can get you to live. You probably trade cars every couple of years and are on your 3 or 4th iPod. I have an iPod too...that I use when I go running. As for day in and out use, my turntable is my choice without question. Funny, when I have friends over the first thing they want to do is start spinning records and open a great bottle of wine. Living is, as Robin Williams said in Dead Poets Society, about "sucking the marrow out of life" and that comes through your passion about life. I read Wine Spectator but don't fill my pantry with their top picks. You are likely and engineer who overthinks everything instead of slowing down and tasting, driving, and listening to what the best of the world has to offer. Say what you will but there are a LOT of people who would debate you on the subject and they are likely a hell of a lot more passionate and educated than you. I pitty your ignorance.

[make_or_break]

People have been writing the obit for vinyl for decades. When prerecorded cassette sales overtook vinyl, the industry press took that as a sure sign that the end of (vinyl) days was near. So what happened to cassette tape? With the advent of the compact disc again the doomsayers were in full force, proclaiming how these little aluminum oxide disks were going to crush what remaining life there was in the vinyl market, never mind the fact that most of these early discs along with most of their early requisite CD players really weren't all that great-sounding when stacked against a decent table and cartridge and only an average quality vinyl pressing. Sure, the distracting pops and clicks were absent, but so was a lot of the good stuff as well. It was cassette tapes all over again, only without the tape hiss. And yeah, vinyl almost DID go the way of the dodo, except for the dedicated few. But look at where we are now...

Now...all the digitized know-it-alls are eulogizing the compact disc, coming at the hands of uber-convenient, uber-compressed download file, and guess who's still lurking amongst the true fidelity fans. New vinyl's a lot more expensive than it used to be, but the sonic quality is still there in spades. New-fangled CD hybrids like SACD and DVD-Audio were supposed to be the final say of the genotype, finally making those silver (and gold) platters sound "just like vinyl". So which of these are the ones on life support?

It's great that there are younger music fans that are discovering just how great vinyl sourced-music is, even if it took a bit of a nostalgia angle to bring them into the fold. Whatever...as long as they now BELIEVE.

I will say this about myself and my own doggedly stubborn vinyl streak: it will be an extremely cold day in hell before they pry my trusty, ancient Realistic stylus gauge out of my frozen, locked fingers. My quarter-century old Yamaha PF-800 (with its newly purchased (used) Dynavector 17D3) and much younger Rega P7 (currently wearing a Grado Sonata and a recycled SME arm bought second-hand ages ago) will forever be my primary source of audio nirvana, at least until another tempting table bats its seductive eye my way, no matter how many dime a dozen iPods or Zunes end up passing through my audio room door (*sigh*...metaphorically speaking, since I no longer have a dedicated audio room...but someday, when one of those bedrooms become available once again...).

Good vinyl still kicks butt...now if only they could go back and find some long-lost full-range masters whose subsequent retail releases were lobotomized in the name of FM...

[Olderndirtacctnt]

I still have my Dual turntable, a Grundig and an Asahi reel-to-reel recorder purchased in 1965-67. My 33's have been played twice, once to make sure that there are no scratches and then transferred to tape. I copied some of the music to cassettes to play in the car but still use the tape reels for home listening. I'm looking to replace my 18 year old car and will probably have to burn some of the music to CD's now. I also have a collection of 78's and 45's that date to the 1930's, 40's and 50's when music was music and not just a lot of screaming and banging and could be enjoyed without breaking an eardrum.

[cardes]

STEVE! Please stop bashing the iPod and iTunes technology. It is a waste of your and our time. Each technology has its place. STOP!

[waldolc]

Bashing? I think not. I think the point here is to say that people today are looking for a more convenient way to carry their music with them: But at the cost of fidelity. I've been in industry almost my entire life and even the newest greatest high-end mp3 mixing software and hardware in use by DJ's the world over mimic records and tapes in form and function. There are things that cannot be done in the MP3 (or other digital) format. But I am not jogging around town with my Techincs 1200's...

[epitone]

I still have my Columbia wax cylinder machine from 1880, and it totally drinks the milkshake of any of your fancy-pants turntables. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to put my rubber ear-tubes back in and rock out to the Edison Grand Concert Band's rendition of "Love's Dream After the Ball."

[wdlee123]

Musicians prefer digital ? end of discussion.

Those owning turntables, like the Linn Sondek LP-12, often defend and enjoy the nostalgia, memories, and seductive sound of vinyl. I?ve owned my Linn Sondek LP-12 with Linn iTok tone arm since 1986 yet I often find myself leaning toward the convenience of digital but this hasn't meant kicking my LP-12 to the curb. It?s my friend from the past who brought me many of my first musical experiences. Those experiences shaped much of my audio life. Yet today with Linn Records distributing high resolution downloads the line continues to blur. I suspect those championing vinyl are turntable owners and their manufacturers not musicians. Digital has now become the musicians preferred delivery system and as they begin to record more of their own work rather than labels we will see even greater improvements in the format. The moral to this story: Stop the smack down and engage the format(s) that open your life to the wonderful world of music. Then explore owning the best audio equipment you can to elevate the experience!

[Mark Molloy]

Hi, I am a 61 yo IT consultant and I have seen it all come and go. I own and use daily a National 8 Transistor radio that I was given by my father for passing my Leaving Certificate (college entrance) exams 44 years ago. This radio has only AM and SW bands, but I use it to listen to the news every day. I also own an IPod (nano) which I have had for 2 years and which replaced a broken down Ipod that had lasted 3 years. I will not buy another Ipod when this one gives up as the amount of pleasure that I get from it does not compensate for the anger and frustration that I experience when this technology departs this world.

[klacko]

Pubmat is right, as long as one stays in the price range of 100 vs 1000$ the CD is better and more user friendly. But we are not talking about this price range when saying the LP is better.
As for me, I have engineered, built my own player, with the active help of my buddy working in a "don't ask don't tell" military hardware factory. I consider this something of an accomplishment, making a 40 lbs platter spin noiseless on a single steel ball. 30 years later now that I could actually afford to have a Sondek I am somehow sticking with the old dinosaur, perhaps because I feel attached to my hardware, to my LP collection, to my music. I find it difficult to get attached to high compression, DRM infested music, rootkits, vaporware, pretending to sound like Pavarotti.
I could not care less about the big players litigation of their customers, I am not in their stores until the new Mozarts start showing up on their talent shows. I actually own my music, I have my LPs.

[forkboy]

I think the issue is a bit more complex than has been stated. I no longer own a turntable, but owned a very wonderful Yamaha tangent tonearm turntable for many years. Certainly not in the same class as the Linn, but it did what it was supposed to do.

Unlike many others who own MP3 players (I own two) I do not purchase downloaded tracks and don't intend to do such. Instead I convert my CDs to variable bit rate WMA files at the highest bit rate. I endeavor to get as much sound quality as possible without using a lossless codec. And I wouldn't have it any other way for what I use my MP3 players for: portability.

I think portability is the far greater reason why folks like and purchase MP3 players. It's not because they sound just as good as other older technology, but because LPs, tapes and CDs are simply not as portable by any standard. And portability has always come at the cost of sound quality. Just as it did with portable tape players (like the Sony Walkman) or portable CD players (dido). And as far as I'm concerned I don't think there is that much of a difference in sound quality between a 182kbps MP3 and a LP played on a high end stereo. The differences may exist, but must be more subtle than one would think. And now doubt any difference must be attributable to what sort of music is being played. Maybe the differences are more distinct and noticeable with classical, jazz, etc., but I can't see anyone noticing a difference between Justin Timberlake on a high end stereo and a good MP3 player.

[mustangj36]

I have two turntables, a Dual 1218 bought in 1973, and a Kenwood KD-65F from 1984 or so. Both still function perfectly. Just used them to make digital copies my vinyl collection of over 600 LP's. And YES, the vinyl does sound better! I made all the transfers at 320 kps, the best possible with my software, and I could still hear the difference.

[toms.singlemalts]

i have a Sony direct drive turntable using an Empire cartridge. I bought it in the early 80's.

It has been sitting unused for a while but lately I fire it up and put on some of my old vinyl and crank it up.

[waldolc]

I have the same Technics 1200 my dad gave me in 1986. I've gone through quite a few styluses. I love my CD's. But most of them never had the same sound quality as my records. I love my mp3's. But most of them never had the same sound quality as my CD's unless I ripped them myself. I just love audio. I still have a dual cassette player/recorder hooked up and I sometimes breakout my minidisc player. Whatever has my tunes, that's what I'm gonna listen too.

[AMSRay]

My turntable is a 1978 Harmon Kardon linear-tracking model. I got it as a package deal with a Bose Spatial Command receiver and Bose 901 speakers. 30 years later all of it still works like new with no repairs needed. I've bought other systems since then, but that is still my best sounding system.

[fundraised]

I have been using turntables constantly since 1974. In that time I have owned the following. Fons CQ30 with SME 3009 MKii arm & Sure V15 iii cartridge. The Fons sounded great but a mechanical disaster, so after it broke down for the 3rd time in as many months, the supplier agreed to replace it with a Thorens TD160 BC to which they transfered my SME & Sure. That combination lasted until the early eighties when the Thorens was overhauled with an upgrade kit, damping some of the resonant pressed steel parts. Strengthening the plinth and fitting a solid 2 inch slab of MDF replacing the flimsy hardboard base. The armboard was also replaced with a composite model, instead of the original moulded plastic one. The record mat was also changed for a sticky rubber kind instead of the hard rubber ridged original. All these changes except the matt made vast improvements to the sound. A felt mat from a Linn LP12 put the icing on the cake. This setup remained in residence until it was seriously damaged in a house move 5 years ago. Time for a change. Having heard many good reports about the now 30 year old Garrard 401 I bought a good clean one without plinth from eBay. Secured a second-hand plinth with squash ball suspension also from eBay. Married that to a modified Rega RB 250 with low slung brass counter weight. Cartridge is Denon DL-103 moving coil. Latest additions are a solid granite plinth (killed rumble stone dead and also dramatically reduced the surface noise or vinyl roar. Finishing touches added over the last year have been a brass record clamp, used with the LP12 mat not original Garrard item & finally a custom made aluminum arm board with easy adjustment of both arm alignment & vertical tracking angle via allen keys while record is playing. Total cost about £300 or nothing, because the insurers paid out more than that for the one that got damaged in the house move. The 401 sounds like the best combination of vinyl insight and stunning dynamics plus CD like inky silence. The thing is very heavy and even on a wooden floor you can not disturb it. I can jump up and down beside it all day long and it doesn't even think about miss-tracking. My CD player goes nuts if I do this. I can see no reason why this combo won't still be going strong in another 30 years. I love it!

[redking44]

Just read the 'bashing digital' comment. - and the claim that a $100 CD player will sound better than a $1000 turntble...

Yeah most CDs will sound better than most turntable systems. But that don't mean the CD is good.

The writer of that comment can never have heard a good vinyl system. CDs do have some advantages like being harder to damage and sounding better on cheap equqipment, but no CD i've ever heard can equal the the subtlety of a good vunyl recording on a good system, the turntable being just part of the system. I remember when CDs were new, a hi-fi shop plyed me some music on a new system (an early CD but I didn't know that at the time) - which to me sounded nasty brutish and LOUD. Yeah it had low background noise but otherwie it was painful to listen to - like a Lowrey painting except the instruments had been outrlined in white fire.

Based on the size of the vinyl miolecules, records contain far more information than a CD. Subtle instruments like bruished drums and cymbals come alive on vinyl, on CD they're just there.

The signal source isn't the only important aspect. Years ago I experimented with loudspeakers using a 2-way system, moving the tweeter forwards and backwards relative to the woofer. What I found was interesting... it hardlty mattered where I put the tweeter, it sounded the same, except one spot - and with the tweeter placed just right, the music came alive - it was real, it was solid, it was believable. I never could work out what the actual differnce in the sound was, but it was RIGHT..

I could go on about engineering. About live sound. and a a"live" performance where the 40-piece brass band was in a small university auditorium and amplified to almost painful levels - witha static buzz that indicated poor grounding somewhere. Sad thing was, that brass band could fill that room with NO trouble - but the "everything's got to be amplified" mentality spoiled an otherwise good performance. And don't even let me think about Enya.

Enough rambling. Good sound is complex. Maybe one day digital recordings will be available in 24/96 (or better) with compression that doens't reduce drums to a barrel of nuts and bolts (or better yet, without compression). and sound engineering that lets everything, even the barely audible details, come through - but I'm not holding my breath.

oh... anyone noticed that telephones have gone downlhill with the spread of digital technology? Another example of the business approach "provide the minimum service quality and charge as much as we can"

[redking44]

hey no fair -i put in paragraph breaks there. Maybe I need to use the BR tagss.. let's see...

<
this should be a new paragraph<br>

now let's post and see

[redking44]

well it's not perfect...

let's try spaces round the BR tags...

well?

[Zekeuyasha]

I have quite a few record players, some not actually vinyl players but it counts right?
Anyway I have a 1983 Panasonic Sound System. Its got 2 speakers, an LP table on top with dual tape decks (now we're stylish) and an add on CD deck on the bottom (all new for the 80s) and I use that for casual listening and also I hook it up from the 'phones jack to the Line-In on my computer and convert LPs to CDs for people.

My second one is a 1933 Victor Talking Machine. It plays 78RPM shellac records and is run by clockwork.

The third is a portable 1911 Victor/Symphony Phonograpgic Record Player. This one plays the same shellac records (which I have a considerable collection of) and is also run by clockwork but the regulator gear is broken so it releases the spring's tension much to fast, I have to hold a finger on the turntable and regulate the speed by ear. Anyone know how to safely replace one of these gears without damage to the rest of the clockwork?

Think I'm 65+? ha I'm 16!

[mackinac2]

Mine is much younger than yours, a 1982 TECHNICS, but it is still going strong and I love it.
I actually listen to the music which is playing because I've just put it on and I've done that
very consciously.

[Kurt Saldutti]

My Technics SL1300 is 32 years old. Along with a Shure V15 Type-V cartage, I know the difference quality between media. I have played a ton of music on this table over the years and still to this day, after five CD players and two I-Pods there is NOTHING like the sound of a well maintained LP, on a well-maintained table and cartage stylus. Yes, it?s a hassle compared to today?s media but there?s nothing like it to the ears and for the mind.
I get on a plane with my $350.00 NC headset and my I-POD and my only wish is the music would be album quality not this compressed crap. I would be willing to buy a 30gig POD and load it with totally uncompressed music even knowing that how mush extra room it would use, it would be worth it. Sorry but most younger people have no idea how much of the recording of whatever they are listing to is lost in MP3 and they don?t care because they don?t know the difference. It?s like that with many things today and will become even worse in the future. Oh well at least I have great memories.