Comments on: Attention home theater shoppers: Think twice before buying a center channel speaker!

Why home theater center channel speakers aren't such a great idea.

[pjmaley]

bad idea - he's wrong

having the center channel isolates dialog and doesn't confuse it with the music
or sound effects. ever watch a movie where dialog and music come through the
same speakers? "i can't hear what he's saying"...so you turn up the sound...then
bam! the music comes back on and it wakes up the kids...so you turn it back
down. and the cycle begins. leave the dialog on the center channel. I'm
surprised CNET posted this article.

[asilvera4]

Ridiculous

That's pretty presumptuous to think that every reader has an A/V receiver capable of compensating for the lack of a center channel, and I don't know of any receiver that does it automatically. Putting the receiver into a stereo-only mode would be close, but that's still a mistake. Without a center channel the dialog and many sound effects fade into the background and exacerbates the voice:music discrepancy that already plagues too many movies.
Spending more on a matched, quality center and more time adjusting the receiver's parameters is the best solution. What's your next article, "Making a Subwoofer From Your Surrounds."?

[carlhulit]

for even better results dump the whole surround

I am a firm believer that for any reasonable price a 2 channel system will beat the pants off a surround system. A good stereo setup potrays dialog just fine with only 2 speakers, as they have good enough resolution to understand everything unlike cheap home theatre style speakers. Run everything stereo and get a sub if you need boom, gets way more bang for the buck. surround has to be the most overrated technology ever

[garyoke]

I felt that way too - until I did a serious upgrade to my entire system. Dolby DTS makes an ASTOUNDI
NG difference in the quality of the sound. The most striking example is to simply flip to a 2 channel mix while wathcing a movie. Or better yet compare the Beatles LoVE standard CD with the DVD audio disc it comes with. It's night and day. It's like The Beatles are singing in the room live.

[rocksnob]

back to mono?

Better yet, why not just save on all that money spent on all those extra speakers and just listen to one, solitary speaker in glorious mono? ;) Seriously, though, the center channel speaker serves a real purpose and it pays to get a good one. I have one from JBL and it makes everything, including music, sound better. For the poster who commented that "surround has to be the most overrated technology ever", you should come over to my house and listen to 1) a movie with a good 5.1 soundtrack and 2) Pet Sounds, The Beatles "Love" remixes or Dark Side of the Moon in multichannel before you say such a thing. While I agree you absolutely must have excellent quality front L and R speakers at the very least, there is no mistaking the aural difference with a good set of speakers, a sub and 5.1 dolby digital output.

Quadrophonic sound, now that was an overrated technology!

[adlieb]

2 channel may not be what the creater intended...

As a budding audiophile who reads this blog virtually everyday, I am quite surprised of this most recent post.

I give the following remarks with the understanding that... 1. I do not have anywhere close to the ammount of audio knowledge as the Audiophiliac, and 2. The time and energy I have spent is not a fraction of amount that the Audiophiliac has put into his own life of audio. However with that being said, I feel I must say the following things in regards to this most recent post.

If I am to watch a film or listen to a surround sound soundtrack of some sort, that has been coded with a surround sound format, then for the optimal listening experience I should have the necessary equipment for that activity.

So if I am to experience an SACD/DVD-A/DTS/DD soundtrack, I must have a minimum of a 5.1 speaker setup with appropriate receiver/amplifier. And for a HD audio encoded track I may possibly even need two additional surround speakers, and maybe even an additional subwoofer or more, in order to create a nearly perfect sonic compression zone.

I am in the firm belief that to have as perfect of an audio experience as possible, the equipment must match the nature of the recording. If I want to listen to a stereo recorded track, then a proper stereo pre/pro and separate amplifier, with two full range speakers is the ideal setup for such an experience. However, to say that the same equipment is necessary for a completely different kind of audio experience, i.e. SURROUND SOUND, is totally absurd.

I understand how people may argue that the tonal qualities of a center channel may not match that of the other surround speakers, especially the front Left and Right. However I do think that a small difference in tonal quality should be acceptable for most listeners. And furthermore if the content is good enough, then the listener should not even realize that difference, but instead become one with the experience.

To compare apples with apples, I believe we are all responding, with taking into account, that most people reading this blog are already in the know or interested in audio that is not "HT in a box" quality, but considerably high quality equipment. If you have the capability, knowhow, and resources to get a tonally matched center channel, then by all means do so, to ensure audio perfection. If all you have though, is the matching center channel of the brand of speakers that you purchased, be happy with your experience that you have set yourself up with. At least you're listening to it the way the director/musicians/producers intended it. Get engulfed and "SURROUNDED" into your experience.

Happy Thanksgiving.

[kelsci]

Center channel speaker

I have tried the experiment that Mr. Guttenberg suggests. It will ruin your stereo-surround field. The D'Appolito center channel design works very well despite its shortcomings giving a realistic image of dialog and the proper spread of center channel information into the 5.1 surround field. Oh, there is a problem with center channel D'Appolito speakers allright, but it is not what you think. Some of these speakers woofers are wired in SERIES; in other words, two of the woofers are wired in series to (4ohms plus 4 ohms) to achieve 8 ohms status. Two speakers wired in series usually do not give good sound because the driver in one does not move in tandem with the driver of the other. I am fortunate to have a D'Appolito unit that has two 12 ohm woofers wired in PARALLEL thus giving a 6 ohm impedance and the right type of sound, that is, that the unit sounds IN PHASE with the rest of the satellite speakers. The series design I mentioned above sounds "harsh". The only way to know wether you have a parallel or series type center channel is to remove one of the woofers and check the impedance with an ohmeter. It is very possible that many of us may not have our satellite systems working properly because of this factor I just mentioned. Kelsci......

[andrewbaggins]

Try it the other way around...

Use three Center-channel speakers instead! Many of the better quality Center-channel speakers are actually designated by the makers as Left/Right/Center (L/C/R). In fact, you could use five L/R/C speakers for best all-round balanced sound.

If you are a purist music listener then you probably have a separate stereo system for your CDs and (maybe) LPS, FM or satellite radio. You're NEVER going to get a natural sounding stereo image for music when there's a TV screen in between your front speakers. There will always be some glare caused by reflections off of the hard surface of the screen. Reproduction of depth and image placement will also be affected.

If you can't afford (or lack the available space) for separate music and home theater systems then you've already accepted the inherent compromises involved, so why degrade or diminish the full dynamic range and spread of home theater sound by disabling the center channel?

Also, some high-end designs offer a dedicated Center-channel speaker that closely matches the stereo left-right speakers, but these are few and far between and rather costly.

One other situation sprang to mind when thinking about this topic. Many TV channels still broadcast in stereo. Often, these stations sound kind of flat, compressed, or just plain dull compared to 5.1 surround on your HD channels. For these stereo-only stations, try setting your Home Theater Receiver to "5-channel-stereo". It MAY give you better clarity on dialog and a more dynamic sound, too. Instead of less-is-more, maybe sometimes more-is-more?

[109]

Confused on speakers [as on most things!]

Am creating/updating a Home Theatre, small living room, family of 2. The TV/video side is quite new. On the audio side I currently use just 2 floor standing 8 0hm speakers. These are Genesis 410 from the early '80s costing $1000 Cdn./pair [1/2 price!]. Each has a tweeter, mid-range driver, a 10" woofer, plus a 10" passive radiator radiating power from 25 Hz to 45Hz. [http://I am fond of pipe organ music.|http://I am fond of pipe organ music.]
My question to all of you gurus: can I still use these once top-of-the-line speakers with or without additional speakers with a new a/v receiver yet to be purchased?

[andrewbaggins]

to 109:

The ideal home theater sound would be for all 5 speakers to be very closely matched in tone and timbre. Failing that, you aim for the fronts and center channel to match.

Your best bet, therefore, is to start afresh and include a good subwoofer in your plan.

If you can't bear to part with your old speakers, then find a store that will let you try a couple of center-channel speakers at home and decide if one of them matches your old stereo speakers in tone.

[garyoke]

Sure you can. But if you're like me, and put off upgrades for 10+ years you'll truly be astonished at the qualitative difference in sound with new equipment. Because difference - midrange clarity, and bass. In both movies and pipe music. Those 1980s passive radiators simply cannot move the same amount of air as a modern active subwoofer.

Then again, if you truly ARE like me, you'll soon be disheartened to learn that your ears are not what they once were either. Dman middle aged rock and roll bands.......

[hfhlt004]

A way to get excellent sound at 1/3 the cost

Buy expensive headphones.

[norm962]

viva mono!

seriously dude?! Didn't you just post a review of the Klipsch home-theater setup like two weeks ago? If I remember, you were rather impressed with it and how it handled movies and concert DVDs. Yes yes, we cannot all afford such a system, but c'mon, the center channel (and surrounds and sub) all have a place. I love 5.1 surround, I'm interested by the expanded formats (7.1 and even 11.2) and cannot believe that a step back is a good thing, even with a solid set of speakers

[Maarek Stele]

Buy a better sound system

Try listening to a movie in DTS, you NEED the center speaker, because everything else is used in the left, right, and rears.

Without a Center channel, you would have to rewind to listen to someone speak or have to keep adjusting the volumn.

This review... buy a better sound system if you don't think you need a center channel.

[studman]

I am using an old computer speaker (albeit a rather large one) for my center speaker and it works surprizingly well. If you don't want to spend big bucks for a center speaker then here is your solution!

[Renko_is]

You are so right. I have found that if it is difficult to hear voices in a movies, the best thing to do is to turn off the center channel. I wish I had realized this before thinking I needed to upgrade the center channel to fix such an issue. And I found this to be true with both systems in my home.

[Thomas Jennings]

I use a 6 inch "full range" shielded center and it works quite nicely!

[jscott418]

he's right unless the center channel is the same type of speaker as the front left and right speaker. Power to it should be the same too. To many people think it's just a vocal channel.
It's NOT. You are much better off with good quality front speakers and forgo the center.
Especially if your front speakers are spaced close together. That said, people need to do what sounds good to them. But I always think it's good to try different setups. After all you never know if there is a better setup then what you have? One thing is for sure. Too many bad speakers is much worse then a couple really good ones!

[sonny 2]

I have AR 98LS main speakers AR 8BX rear speakers & AR 205 center speakers no sub the AR's give me all the base I need. But it is difficult to hear voices, I have tryed differant settings (did not help) It could be the movies some sound very good you can understand what they are saying

[gdstjs]

I agree with Mr. Guttenberg. For those of you that are complaining that you do not hear good dialogue and do not get a good center image with the center channel turned off and redirected to the L/R speakers, something is wrong with your set-up, your ears, or your system.
Turning off the center channel does not lessen the amount of sound that was meant to go to the center channel, it has all been redirected to the L/R channels. If you cannot hear the dialogue over the action then that is how it was mixed in the studio, it's not because you turned off the center channel and are no longer getting that signal.
I think Mr. Guttenberg's point of the article is mostly about the diminished sound quality that is inherent with the center speaker. Even a 'matched' center speaker sounds nothing like the L/R speakers because of the cabinet shape/size, the orientation of the drivers (even if the drivers are identical), and the placement of the center speaker which causes a huge tonal hump around the 200hz range (this is part of the cause for that boxy sound of Denzel's voice). When the L/R speakers are set-up properly they will make Denzel's voice sound more natural and will still sound centered in the TV.
I have the Studio line of JBL speakers. L/R: S312's, C: S-Center. Even though the center speaker is 'matched', there is no doubt that the L/R speakers sound much better than the center does. If you're really into sound quality, why muddy it up by using a speaker that puts out inferior sound.