Comments on: Do all amplifiers sound alike?

Do all amplifiers and receivers sound alike?

[acardes]

What things DO sound alike?

Should I replace my RadioShack 16 gauge speaker wire? How about buy a power conditioner? Will I hear a difference?

I am pretty skeptical of buying power cords to "clean" my AC, given that anything that transports electricity more efficiently would also efficiently transport electrical noise.

But above that, what is snake oil and what is practically useful?

[TonyB.]

Carefull with your aspersions

Some snake-oil salesmen may take offense!

"Strange but True: Snake Oil Salesmen Were on to Something"
By Cynthia Graber, Scientific American, 11-1-2007
"http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa029&articleID=F7B4BAF7-E7F2-99DF-3870FFECA70C38C9"

:)
TonyB.

[nirvana_av]

Amplifiers Way Down In The Pareto

The single greatest impact on sound quality from an audio system will be the room in which it's played. The second greatest impact will be the quality and setup of the speakers. Then come sources and source material. Other components make an insignificant difference in sound quality including cables and interconnects.

If an amplifier has the power to drive the speakers it is paired with and offers enough headroom for transients, it will not make any contribution, positively or negatively to the sound quality. However, there are differences between tube amps and solid state amps, tube amps adding coloration in the form of distortion.

[CraigTee]

Hahahahhahaaaa!!!!

Really... LOL here! Anybody else old enough to remember many years ago when a very popular audio(phile?) publication made the statement that "all quality built amplifiers will sound alike" and that "any perceived difference in sound that cannot be accurately measured utilizing modern test equipment is simply due to the listeners bias"?

However, the uproar among their subscribers was deafening and caused the magazine to retract those statements in a hurry. Many subscribers stated "well... since all amplifiers sound alike, I guess I no longer need to subscribe to your publication to help me select the right one!". It was really a very comical fiasco to observe.

Solid State versus Tube? Of course there's a difference! One of the major differences is in how the amp handles "clipping". The voltage driven tube "rounds" off the waveform while the current driven solid state simply "chops off the top" of the waveform... much less appealing to the ear. But this is easily observed on even the cheapest 'scope.

A well built solid state amp (with adequite headroom for your particular choice of speakers and listening volumes) will, IMHO, render the most accurate reproduction of the sound source. However, the faster "rise times" of waveform will often lead to the perceived "edginess" of the solid state amp. In some circumstances, a less accurate reproduction of the recorded waveform is much more pleasing to the ear. IMHO!

I believe it was back in the late 70's or early 80's when a gentleman (who produced a particular line of amps) took a bet that he could make his solid state amp sound identical to an extremely popular and ridiculously expensive mono tube amp. He locked himself in a hotel room with the tube amp, measured the waveform imperfections, and "tweaked" his solid state to mimic the "less accurate" waveform produced by the high end tube amp. Then all the "golden eared" audiophiles attending this particular national show were challenged to try to correctly identify the high end tube amps. About half chose correctly... well within the "coin tossing" range. ;-)

This topic (obviously) always tickles me. As one individual has already noted here, the greatest effect on what you hear will be the room design and speaker placement. Second, IMHO, is the speakers. Third, IMHO, is source equipment. Fourth, IMHO, is amplification. Speakers will "color" sound more than any other piece of "quality" equipment you have. No, a $19.95 amplifier will not sound the same as a $1995.00 amplifier. However, a $2K amp may well sound the same as a $20K amp if both are suited to your speaker power requirements and listening volume preferences (given adequite headroom for the transients).

On wiring interconnects and speaker wire? If they can ever show me the difference in accuracy on modern test equipment, THEN I will pay their $20/foot for the copper. Anybody ever examine what happens to an accurate audio signal once it actually hits the speaker coils? ;-)

Best of luck in your audio decisions!
Disclaimer: All of the above is simply my opinion (as indicated by all the "IMHO"s) and some 40+ years of enjoying my audio systems. :)

Craig

[SQKid89]

Careful with the wording

Richard Clark's challenge has been debated and talked about for years, but the test is quite often misunderstood, just like now. The point of the test is to prove one watt sounds the same on any amp. People too often jump to the conclusion that the test is how all amps sound the same and that there is no reason to buy anything but the cheapest thing you can find. Furthermore, an amp should never color the sound of the music if it is designed right. You color the sound, you are not reproducing the media as it was previously intended. Any well designed amp in the last 20 years should be able to play a razor flat frequency response without even flinching.

[bradjohn57]

The excuse "I find the stress of being put on the spot to prove my ears skews the results" is a cop-out. Blind testing of audio equipment is the only kind of testing that means anything. Otherwise the listener's personal agenda or bias will definitely change the outcome, even if golden-eared professionals insist that's not true. The agenda or bias can be: brand preference, a need to justify large investment in equipment, or just plain snobbishness. If you claim that you can pick out differences in speakers, amps, etc. then prove it with a blind test.

[20to20]

We went away from tubes because of the distortion, heat, and quick deterioration of their output, cost above Xsisters, etc...

All the comments here ultimately boil to answer the question which was, "Can I substitute any "good" amp in my system and hear a difference?" If the specs are similar and not exagerated, the question hasn't been worth the time to ask since 1978. If tube amps are included, the answer is probably, yes, because of their much higher distortion, which gives that "warm and fuzzy" feeling. Something to keep in mind nowadays is the input signal level expected by the amp. 1v or 2v. My receiver expects a 1v input and when I hooked up a new DVD player to it I couldn't turn the volume up past 2 because the DVD player was outputing a 2v signal. Different input impedances will create what seems to be a differences in output between components but if those factors are understood they can be adjusted for. MOINSH (My opinion is not so humble)

[nolabar10der]

After having run a series of amps in my life (albeit mostly integrated), I've concluded that while there are some audible differences between the units, they are negligible unless we are talking about headroom or sheer power, both of which are functions of an amp's rating and not it's 'sound.' "Negligible" does not mean "non-existent," but usually when I have heard measurable differences there is also a sizable difference in price. For the audiophile on any sort of budget, that money is best spent on speakers, source, and even things like room treatments, all of which have a far greater affect on the sound than the subtle differences between SS amps. That's precisely what I did to keep my system at it's target budget, as an extra $500 into my speakers *clearly* went farther than the same amount into an allegedly 'better' amp would have.
Of course, the madness about audio is that it's wildly subjective. I'm just expressing my personal conclusions after years of switching out gear (upgradeitus). But the bottom line is that yes, there are subtle differences between SS amps - the question is whether or not it is the wisest place to dump all of your cash.