Comments on: Psystar's Open Computer the alterna-Mac

After spending a month with Psystar's Open Computer, which runs Mac OS X in defiance of Apple's licensing policies, the question comes up: what makes a Mac a Mac?

[scatlizard]

Ahh is anybody considering the decent support you get when something is wrong with your computer? Is Pystar offering this?

[applusr]

I guess... I am a Fan boy, Being a share holder, owner and operator.

Hacking the OS or the EFI is wrong and illegal. If you want to do it on you own in your house, fine I am all about exploration but to sell them for profit. Shame shame.
Hmm..
" We do not provide support or assistance for the installation of OS X Leopard outside of our facilities at this point in time."

[paulej]

I disagree with appleusr on the assertion that hacking OSX and EFI is wrong. If Psystar is buying copies of the software from Apple (directly or indirectly), then I see nothing wrong with them modifying whatever they want. While the copyright holder holds the distribution rights for its products, I would argue that a copyright owner's right to tell the buyer what he can and cannot do with his purchase ends on that particular item once it is sold. Now, that's not to say that I think it's OK for buyers to then make additional copies and share around the world. But, why on Earth would software come with an EULA, while my car does not? Why does software have an EULA when my magazines and books do not? Oh, and I can cut and paste stuff (i.e., modify) in and out of my magazines and books all day and nobody would ever complain. My point is that there is a fundamental problem with the concept of an EULA. Not only are EULAs a little strange, since most other copyrighted works do not come with such things, EULAs are hidden from the buyer until after he or she tries to install the software, nobody really reads them, and what would you do if you don't accept some term of the agreement? Package everything up and send it back? Right. As if that makes any sense in this day where a computer is very much a necessity to be a productive member of society.

[Perry_Clease]

" If Psystar is buying copies of the software from Apple (directly or indirectly)"

They, nor any Mac user, buys copies of the operating system, they buy a license to use it.

"But, why on Earth would software come with an EULA, while my car does not? "

It does come with an EULA. However, you buy that from the State not the car manufacturer.

"Why does software have an EULA when my magazines and books do not? Oh, and I can cut and paste stuff (i.e., modify) in and out of my magazines and books all day and nobody would ever complain."

The publishers and authors would complain and possibly bring legal action.

"As if that makes any sense in this day where a computer is very much a necessity to be a productive member of society."

I felt bad because I had no Mac until I met a man who had no feet. A person could buy a new Windows or Linux computer cheaper than Mac clone. They can buy an ever cheaper used one, they could buy a used Mac.

[sharpestsharpy]

What power does the Psystar pull? My iMac draws 50 watts in normal use which tops out at 0.5 KWh a day. In the UK that costs me 5p (10 cents) or around £15 ($30) a year. The last PC I checked (including monitor and speakers) ran on 150 watts thats £45 ($90) a year!

The Psystar may be cheap to buy but over 4 years could cost a heck of a lot more in electricity.

[ferretboy88]

Apple=greedy pigs.

[Rmiami225]

Having been through a nightmare experience this past year with HP I can understand why Apple might not want this to go too far ... the Macbook I bought has been flawless but so has the PC I just bought ... an M700 Tablet. You get what you pay for! Cheap hardware is just what it is ... cheap! Comparing apples to apples (sorry about that!) I'd love to have OSX on this tablet but not if I have to give up OneNote, or Vista's hand recognition. You can keep IE, I'd rather use Safari ..but I prefer Outlook! OSX does thing better and faster and I'm always baby sitting Vista but the tablet is so cool to use ... the Mac has vista bootcamped with Fusion but I only fire it up to keep the virus protection up to date. In the end it's a bit of a toss up but I'm spending more time on the tablet.

[jezmondo]

I don't think anyone is claiming that Macs use witchcraft or anything, just that Macs use good quality components put together with thought. The real "trick" is that Apple can change the OS to take advantage of any new hardware, and test the whole thing with a degree of rigour not possible for PC makers.

If you take Mac OS X off the Mac and put it onto commodity hardware you end up with a user friendly Unix box. Sure that's nice, but it's not quite a Mac.

A Mac is a whole system tested as a unit, and has reliability a result. The closest thing I can think of is a Sun Workstation running Solaris. Reliable sure, but not really the kind of thing you'd wish on your mother (or probably even yourself!)

If you think Macs are expensive, try finding a PC which has been qualified against Windows (or whatever floats your boats) of a similar spec to a Mac and price that up. Don't confuse the "Designed for Windows" badges for actual testing - they are meaningless, any OEM gets them, no QA required.

[Lemon5]

I got a theory for why Apple isn't suing them. Apple owns Psystar. This could be Apple's way at going after the really hardcore computer people. Hey, here is a computer that isn't as snazy, but you got Mac OS X on it and you can install linux on it too. But that is just my theory.

[mssoot]

This could be the opening of the flood gates. Maybe Apple will have enough since to see that the popularity of it's software is no reason to saddle it to its hardware anymore. Maybe this is exactly what they are watching to see what will happen here. Last time I checked, M$ is bigger by far. Come on Apple wake up and see the real potential here!

[chronoex]

"maybe in the past Macs have more advance hardware options, but now it only the cosmetics. Please list the advance technologies on the Mac hardware compare to the best Dell?"

It's not so much "advanced technologies" as it is just quality components. Dell simply tosses whatever is cheap inside the case and sends it on it's way. Ever tried to do a fresh install of Windows on a Dell without having the drivers nearby? It's a nightmare, and it's something you'd never have to deal with on a Mac. Apple maintains strict quality standards on what goes into their computers, not just "whatever's on the shelf" like Dell. Contrary to what many people believe, the type of quality of the hardware you're using DOES make a difference, and that's one of the things you're paying for with a Mac.

[applusr]

paulej
?while my car does not? Why does software have an EULA when my magazines and books do not? ? Just because these do not come with a form of ELUA on paper, does not mean they do not have one.
I could go to the bookstore grab a best seller copy chapters 1,3 and 4 and put in my book.
I bought the book I can do what I want with it right?
I can't do that, is against copyright which is like the EULA.
All OS's and sofware come with a form of a EULA. what it allows you to do with the software differs.
Mac OS X, MS Windows are not linux you do not have the right to change or modify them. If you personally want to modify your own software fine go for it, when you illegally modify and sell it for profit. Not good not good at all

[One-Eared Gundark]

I'd like to see Apple change their EULA to allow OS X to be installed on any machine, not just an Apple Branded machine. Apple doesn't need to provide support for non-Apple hardware. If you want support, you need to purchase a Mac.

Really, Psystar hasn't done anything a dedicated geek with a copy of OS X, an internet connection, and a free weekend couldn't accomplish. Psystar just took the work out of it for the end user.

[groink_hi]

Totally the opposite. If Microsoft Windows Vista was written for only one computer, it would be way WAY faster and much more robust. This condition is like a perfect storm, hitting a baseball on top of Mt. Everest, or playing golf with zero wind. Anytime you have the opportunity to write software for a very specific piece of hardware, it is the by far the simplest thing you can write - and write cleanly. This is why Mac OS X performs very well; it is written for very specific pieces of hardware. It is almost like writing firmware! What you're proposing is for Apple to start addressing inifinite combinations of hardware. If Apple were to do this, Mac OS X's reputation would be totally shot.

[jimmyd0327]

I think the Open Computer is a good thing for Apple, as are the other people who are running Leopard on non-Apple hardware. By allowing the violation of their EULA, Apple is allowing the creation of more buzz around Leopard than ever before, and from different types of users. Getting Leopard in front of as many eyes as possible, even if in violation of the EULA, will grow their user base significantly and eventually increase their hardware sales.

[Composer_1777]

Mac is a PC , get over it.

[Perry_Clease]

True, but not all PCs are Macs. :)

[aslamnathoo]

You guys are just provoking a response from Apple. All for what... saving 50-100 dollars (considering that a Mac Mini stars at 599 and the video quotes an open computer with Mac OS starting at 550)?

Why can't you just leave well enough alone? Do we really want Microsoft-styled "Product Activation" in Mac OS X. Well Psystar is driving Apple to put that in and all of us users who respect the software licensing agreements that we agreed to when we bought the machines will suffer. You guys **** me off.

IN any case, anyone who buys this machine is just asking for trouble. At some point Apple will close the loop and you'll all be stuck. And forget the poor schmucks who bought an Psystar server machine whose business will now suffer. You will no longer be able to get any bug fixes or updates. Any IT guy who buys that should be fired for putting his company's IT infrastructure at risk.

Let sleeping dogs lie!!

[jimtravis]

Several posts refer to the "superior" components in the Mac. I have several Macs, and several PC's. Based on the comments in this section, my Macs should have been the "just works" machine which lasted much longer than those generic PCs. My hardware problems have been with the Macs. The most frustrating, negative computer experience for me was the 20" iMac G5, problems from Day 1. I ordered the MacBook Pro when they were announced, and had to reinstall the OS in order to boot. I called Apple to ascertain if there was some shortcut, and unfortunately, the only remedy to get the machine to boot for the first time was to reinstall the OS. I am typing this on a 6 yr old Sony Vaio that "just works", and I can actually use on my lap without fear of burns. I use the old Vaio much more than the MacBook Pro. My Vaio is on year 6, the iBook I owned before the MacBook Pro lasted all of three years before it was recycle time.

I know others have probably had similars problems with their (insert PC brand here). We all form our opinions from our personal experiences, and for me, the Windows PCs have been the stable, just works machines, and the Macs have been the problem machines.

[whj2]

I think this is great. I suspect allowing a few thousand hobbyists or technophiles to run Leopard on non-Apple hardware has a minimal impact, if any, on Apple's bottom line. As long as the volume remains shy of a few tens of thousands... this probably actually helps Apple (in market penetration) more than it harms them. Sorta like the Southwest Airlines of computers. Psystar customers are probably not ready to invest in a Mac yet anyway, and this gets them hooked.

Btw, I love the comment about cosmetics. I actually have a ThinkPad because the keyboard is so awesome. Case, screen, keyboards... these are not cosmetics to someone who sits in front of a computer for 8 to 10 hrs a day.
Replacing an Apple tower with Psystar tower makes sense because you get to keep your high quality monitor and keyboard. I would have NO interest in one of those plastic, boxy laptops. That is silly. I want Leopard on my thinkpad. :)

[Understarsidream]

For years I've used macs at home and a dell laptop at work. It's time to replace the laptop and decided to comparison shop a new Powerbook vs. a new Dell. I could not get exact match but I got it close and the Mac was only about 80 bucks more expensive. And Apple support is so much better than Dell it's not even funny. The whole story that Apples are SOOOOO much more expensive is just bunk anymore.