Comments on: Psystar store is back up, orders on the way

The Mac clone maker has obtained a new payment processor and is once again taking orders for computers with Mac OS X Leopard preinstalled.

[k2dave]

This is a great alternative to VIsta

Pretty soon it looks like XP will not be a option, and it will be a couple of years till the next M$ OS is available. Many people will get by with XP holding out for the Vista replacement, but a few unfortunate people will have to buy a new computer during this blackhole of M$ OS's where Vista is the only option. But not anymore, you can get the MAC OS X instead as you wait for the next version of windows.

Hey it has to be better then Vista.

[tacit]

So, after all this...

...if this is really Psystar's address, why did it change so often? And
more to the point, leaving aside the issue of the company's
physical existence or lack thereof...

Of all the people who have placed an order, has ANYONE actually
received a computer yet? Anyone?

[roar08]

Now the whole site is down

Tom, every time you report on this mythical Psystar ordering process, either the store or the entire site is unavailable. In this case, it's the latter. I suggest cautious updates since the volatility of this company (at least their site) is contradictory to your coverage in the recent week.

[Lee in San Diego]

It is open, at least for now

I was just there, 1:25 Pacific Time. I hadn't been to the site since
the controversy started last week, Back then it took a real long time
for the home page to load, this time it was very quick.

I didn't try to buy anything so I can't comment on the ordering
process.

[chuckjuhl]

Check your browser?

Umm. I suggest you check your browser. It's been up every time I've checked since Thursday. Just checked again. Up and running and taking orders.

[loserguy3000]

Cnet = Tabloidism

Thank you, CNet, for becoming the very tabloid-esque trash I try to avoid. Updates each and every single day (even weekends!) on the status of Psystar... is this your digital equivalent to Britney Spears?

Sending out drones (or accepting their paparazzi pictures) as though we need minute-by-minute details about the constancy of this company. And why this company, why now? What could they have possibly done to earn the wrath of a former (in my eyes) respected 'news' site? Do we need such news in real-time?

I'm not supporting Psystar or rallying against them, but in your ridiculous haste to decimate this company with your preemptive attacks, before actually receiving any merchandise or giving the owners a fair chance, you've knocked over every pillar of decency and destroyed every ounce of fair play and objectivity.

We've got the credit card company spilling personal details about their former client, we've got drones nearly trespassing on private property, and just now we've got private license plates being displayed. Wasn't this the site that preferred Answers.com to actual legal advice? Can't Cnet afford legal attorneys?

Again, this is trash journalism borne out of irrational behavior, or one hell of a slow news week. Either way, the writers should be ashamed of themselves. Pity.

[hunter_jc]

Not just cnet.

It is the general culture (or lack of) that is pushing more agency to put trash on the table.

[colamix]

I couldn't agree more...

I couldn't agree more with your assessment, except that it got much worse than that. There have been several mouth foaming overtones wishing for Apple to bury this startup in legal problems when no case law has validated anything remotely similar to Apple's ridiculous EULA. Psystar was presumed guilty of illegal infringement right off the bat.

If Apple thinks it can control where people use their software, just wait till some enterprising Asians realize there is a market for hackintoshes.

[chuckjuhl]

Legal issues appear to favor Psystar

Apple?s EULA in general is very weak legally, and the provision in question is most likely controlled by a 1984 case which held that "refusal to license [the company's] copyrighted computer software to those who did not purchase [the company's] hardware was an unlawful tying arrangement? A ZDnet blogger has also recently brought that up. http://blogs.zdnet.com/Murphy/?p=1121. The short of it is, that if Apple does attempt to go to Court over the issue, they will most likely lose and not only that, they will likely be required to support OSX on non-Apple hardware.

The EULA in general has little or no applicability in anti-UTICA jurisdictions, which hold that software is "goods" subject to the UCC and therefore "licensing" arrangements are not applicable.

As for the EFI emulator, under U.S. copyright law, that is now public domain. The authors freely distributed it with no license for more than two years with the intent of unrestricted dissemination. Under U.S. law, that constitutes placing the code in the public domain. Once the code has been placed in the public domain, it cannot be later removed from the public domain. By placing the code in the public domain, the author irrevocably relinquishes all ownership and rights in the copyright. "[S]oftware released thus goes completely out of control of the author, who, even if he subsequently so desires, cannot impose any restriction on its use."
"Programs that are uncopyrighted because their authors intended to share them with everyone else are in the public domain. Programs in the public domain can be used without restriction as components of other programs."

The test of whether software has passed into the public domain is set out in Computer Associates Int'l v. Altai, 982 F.2d 693.This decision holds that computer software may enter the public domain through "freely accessible program exchanges and the like," or by becoming "commonplace in the computer industry."
So, in spite of all of the vitriol misinformation being thrown out that Psystar is somehow acting illegally or immorally, all indications are that Psystar is acting well within the law, and most likely is in a strong position to force Apple to support OSX on non-Apple hardware.

This is my gripe against the so-called cNet "journalists." They apparently have not been taught even the most rudimentary journalistic skills - like doing a little homework to present a balanced and objective set of facts before throwing out vitriol allegations as fact, such as that Psystar is illegally violating Apple EULA, when all legal indications are that the EULA is illegal, not the violation of the EULA). Or that Psystar stealing the work of the OSX86 foundation, when that code is clearly in the public domain, has been for more than two years, and Psystar's use of the EFI code is little different than Apple's use of BSD Unix.


I am reasonably certain that many larger vendors are hoping Apple will attempt to enforce the EULA through the Courts. The odds are very much stacked against Apple, and many medium and large PC vendors foresse a significant market for non-Apple PC's running OSX. Dell for one I am sure can foresee a significant demand from the business community (especially businesses involved in creative arts), and from Schools and Universities for "MacClones". I believe Dell already attempted to get Apple to play nicely, but was unsucessful.

Apple really only has two choices, the "best choice" is just to ignore small integrators like Psystar and continue to refuse to provide support and thereby also requiring an EFI emulator. The big vendors will stay away from that because of the unfavorable logistics, irrespective of the legal issues. OR Apple can take the bait and force the issue into court, where the odds (and the case law) are very much against them. An unfavorable legal ruling would likely force Apple to support OSx on non-Apple hardware. That would make the playground very inviting for the big vendors like Dell.

Apple really has to decide which is the lessor of two evils from their perspective.

[ip4au]

... but the legal system favours the large corporate

These are fair comments, assuming the case histories have been
quoted in context, however the legal system favours the
company with the deepest pockets.

Apple has the financial resources and a team of lawyers to keep
this thing in the courts well past physh-stars bankruptcy.

And if this turns out to be just a scam who will quote the case
law against Psystar? Who will look after the poor saps that
handed over their 'hard-earned' like lemmings?

Personally, I hope Apple prevail. I don't want a situation where
their resources are diverted to having to support Hackintoshes. If
you want a hacked Mac, then build it yourself and support it
yourself. There are plenty of resources on the web to help you
do it.

Leave the EULA aside, these people are selling PIRATED
SOFTWARE. They are selling you a product they have no right to
sell. Add to this, if you purchase an 'Open Computer' you are in possession of pirated software, and liable for prosecution under
copyright protection laws.

Personally, I prefer to buy genuine Macs, because I know they
just work, and if I do have a problem I can get support and any
problems will be fixed under warranty.

[drfrost]

Do you think Think Secret had the law on it's side?

What did Apple have on Think Secret, legally, that would justify shutting the place down? And yet, it was shut down.

As far as whether the EULA approach has been tested well in the courts, this is a comment that has been made in several articles. Of course, it doesn't matter if Psystar doesn't have the deep pockets required to go to court.

BUT... we still have the whole DMCA issue. DMCA essentially makes it illegal to produce or disseminate technology or devices or SERVICES that are used to circumvent measures that CONTROL ACCESS to copyrighted works.

MacOS is definitely a copyrighted work. Apple definitely has measures in place to control access to that copyrighted material. It seems that Psystar is providing a service to circumvent that. (Doesn't matter if the method is outdated... doesn't matter if the method is public domain... doesn't matter if the method is easily defeated.) Apple could, apparently (I'm not a lawyer so take this with a big grain of salt) sue under the DMCA and completely avoid any EULA/EFI issue. Can these programs be used because they're in the public domain? Yes... but not for the purpose of circumventing access control, which Psystar is definitely doing.

I will say, again, as many other people have... this would be a VERY interesting legal battle and likely set very important legal standards in place... but I just can see a small company being able to outlast Apple's deep pockets and aggresively litigious nature.

I used to think Microsoft was the bad guys and Apple was the good guys. I was wrong... both companies are more interested in doing what's profitable than they are in doing what's ethical or right (or even legal... as poor of a substitute as that is).

In other words... I don't think it matters one bit whether Psystar is in the right or the wrong. They're going to lose for the simple fact that Apple is "bigger and stronger."

[AppleSuxLeo]

Florida address says buyer beware...

Florida is linked to most of the scams out there...as well as being the ***** of the USA.
And you gotta love the "ricer" out front(the owner`s car) with the no-wheel covers look. Probably saving up for coffee can muffler for extra 100 H.P.

[Lee in San Diego]

I can't believe it!

I can't believe that I am agreeing with Leo, on some points

It seems that 80% of the time that I report a do not call violation
to the FCC that the telemarketer is from a Florida business. Also
a lot of spammers seem to have Florida addresses. Not that all
businesses in Florida are scammers, spammers, and
telemarketers, but it happens so much that it got me wondering.

As to the car in front of the building. We do not know that the
car belongs to one of the Psystar people, it could belong to
another building tenet, or a guest. Nor do we know for a fact
that address does indeed house Psystar, they seem to move
around more than a Jack Russell terrier.

[shycelticwitch]

If FL is the PENIS...

Then I guess we have ALL the brains, don't we.

What a stupid comment... you sound like one of those "bitter"
people that Obama was talking about...

Be careful, envy is one of the seven deadly sins...

[ethana2]

Competition

...or in other words, drag apple's OSX into the ring we call the real world so Canonical can knock the snot out of it.

Apple will get the hint some day. Good luck, Psystar, with the forthcoming litigation! I hope you win!

[shycelticwitch]

Every one of these posts has missed the point...

It's not about if they can do it legally or illegally, it's about if
they can do it AS WELL.

Taking a piece of crap put together with substandard parts and
putting the most superb operating system available on it is just
that... a piece of crap with a great operating system.

Kind of like putting a Cadillac motor in a canoe isn't it?

If I were Apple I would definitely take offense at what these guys
are trying to do. I had the misfortune of having to work on a
Mac clone back in the 90's... what a joke.

While I think that Apple would share more of the market if they
DID allow their system on "clone" machines, I think that that
step should be taken with considerable care, and the companies
allowed to do so should be held to the same standards as Apple
when it comes to quality of the machines that go with the
operating system.

You windblows fans remind me of the Stepford wives...

[drfrost]

Hmmmm....

"It's not about if they can do it legally or illegally, it's about if they can do it AS WELL." - Shy

I disagree. Whether they can do it AS WELL is definitely an interesting question. But it's not the ONLY interesting question. Furthermore, IMO, it's not the MOST interesting question. If they can do this legally SOMEONE will come along and do it WELL given time.

I put my own computers together, using the highest quality components, and I still come in cheaper than I can buy prebuilt computers.

"Kind of like putting a Cadillac motor in a canoe isn't it?" - Shy

This is a commodity market. I can buy the same CPU's that Apple is using... I can buy a motherboard of higher or equal quality with the same chipset, etc. I can get a BETTER power supply and case... etc., etc., etc.

This is a commodity market... people need to understand what that really means.

"If I were Apple I would definitely take offense at what these guys are trying to do. I had the misfortune of having to work on a Mac clone back in the 90's... what a joke." - Shy

I don't care if they're offended. And Psystar could be making quality machines (or not) but you don't really know without looking over there component list... which you don't have. Talking about a crappy Mac clone from a decade ago... not really convincing, sorry.

"While I think that Apple would share more of the market if they DID allow their system on "clone" machines, I think that that step should be taken with considerable care, and the companies allowed to do so should be held to the same standards as Apple when it comes to quality of the machines that go with the operating system." - Shy

If the quality of Apple computer HARDWARE was such a distinguishing feature, then droves of people would be buying it to run their OS of choice on now that it's compatible. This isn't happening. What does that tell you?

"You windblows fans remind me of the Stepford wives..." - Shy

Why do you have to do end like that? No one cares about your opinion if you look like a zealot.

[chonnom]

You almost made a coherent statement...

Until the last comment.

I might add that you obviously know little to nothing about computer components if you think there's something unique about apple products. Even the Iphone uses ARM tech that's used in every "smart" phone around the world. Apples chips are made in Taiwan or Japan...or even China and I can buy the same chips, boards, hard-drives that Apple sells, and I can buy them cheaper.

Apple is like Gucci or Coach or any other brand-name on the market; it's the same as it's lower-priced competitors so it builds a mystique around the name that people buy into. You're not buying a product, fan-boy, you're buying a name.

[AppleSuxLeo]

Apple uses "special" Chinese parts...

The "Florida Project" does one thing very well. It shows that the Mac is nothing more than a PC.
Imitation is the greatest form of flattery.
I find it quite funny Jobs spent all those years mocking Intel PC`S...and now the Mac IS A PC !
Except that a Windows PC provides many more upgrade options and we get true 32 bit color on even a low-end system/notebook. Oh , and our wireless is stable and STAYS CONNECTED. Apple has an un-fixed wireless bug going on for several months now. And that "millions of colors lie" !

[capaho]

Executive Parking Spaces?

As if they haven't had their ethics called into question enough already, I don't see any handicapped placards on those cars parked in the handicapped spaces in front of their building.