Comments on: Report: iPhones piling up at AT&T stores

The huge gap between the number of iPhones sold by Apple and the number activated by AT&T can't be explained by international sales or unlocked units alone.

[dacaballero]

Can be explained...

Some of the difference between apple report and AT&T report can be explained by "unauthorized" exports, in Latin America there are a lot of stores offering unlocked IPhones, this was specially true in Christmas season.
Maybe this can't explain all the gap, but it can explain lots of it.

[sanenazok]

Latin and South America

My neighbors are from Brazil and I helped them buy four iPhones to take with them over the Christmas holidays. They work as architects (here due to insourcing) and know a lot of professionals, etc. They came back with three having sold only one and for its exact cost here in the US. If professionals in Brazil aren't buying the iPhones then who exactly is? Hugo Chavez?

Asia is flooded with 3G phones and networks, a 2G iPhone there isn't going to sell there very much either.

[Deelron]

Wow they're sure in trouble...

How terrible for Apple, their quarter profit jumps 57% and from
the comments they are just screw-ups. Can't imagine what it'd
be like if they actually got something right. Perhaps we should
wait until Apple (or any company in general) starts to trend
down (and not in line with the economy in general) before we
actually rip on them for record sales and profit and how they're
clearly "getting it wrong."

Nothing says failing like a 18.4 billion cash balance in reserve.

[jeremyblaze]

returns

You have to factor in returns. Lets say that roughly 5% of all sold were returned. They already had them online as refurbs. No matter how they came back (defective and exchanged or just returned) Apple would still be able to count them as a sale, and in the case of the exchange done at an ATT store, would be counting 2nd one as sold (sold to ATT).

[rjackb]

CNET Writers are Hopeless

Why the continual Apple bashing that has occurred at CNet for as long as I can remember? Are you partly owned by Microsoft? By Motorola? By Nokia? In any case, you're no longer one of my browser's bookmarks so good riddance. You should change your domain name to bizarreopinion.com or uninformed.com or idiots.com or anything but news.com because your articles are not news but conjecture and FUD.

[Lee in San Diego]

It generates page hits

Ever wonder why c|net uses a yellow strip across the top of their
pages? Yellow journalism, they write those headlines to get visitors,
both Apple FanBoys and Apple SlamBoys. The problem is that the
flame wars exacerbate global warming. :)

You all have a good night

[FutureGuy]

truth hurts???

Steve, settle down, don't kill the messenger for iPhone's not selling. How about checking other sites before cursing the writers, like may be appleinsider.com
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/01/24/tracking_down_apples_missing_1_4m_iphones.html
or
wired.com
http://blog.wired.com/business/2008/01/apple-slashes-i.html
they all can't be owned by MS can they?

[durlabhm]

Relax

Dude ! Relaax. Take it in the spirit, There is a problem and it is being reported .. you dont like it move on. Stop bashing. If you really think you are smarter than news.com, Pls start rjackbNews.com.

[aussiegeek]

fan boys unite

let me guess.. your an apple fan boy that camped out side your nearest apple store for 4 days to pay 600 bucks for the phone on launch date.. keep telling yourself it was worth it.. oh i have a phone that sends email, plays mp3's, plays movies, and send's IM's.. my treo 600 did that back in 2004... and it wasnt the 1st device to do so..
oh and btw.. i am not an apple hater.. i own a powerbook.. I just hate apple fan boy wanker's..

[ralfthedog]

Everyone is waiting until May or June.

Anyone with a brain is waiting for the cheaper, better iPhones that will hit the market in May. Apple is in something of a no win scenario. If they had released a new iPhone at Macworld, everyone who got one for Christmas would be angry. They did not so everyone is waiting to get a new one.

[rdupuy11]

no at&t no way, not ever

Forget about it. Apple can pay me to use at&t, not the other way around. Send me a check for $3000 or so, and I'll consider it.

[gmesaric]

Many unlocked iPhones

I don't know about the US, but in Austria the iPhone is not yet on
the market (I am eagerly waiting for it -- especially for an
UMTS-enabled one ;-), BUT I know already a number of people
who own iPhones (unlocked ones)...

Also in Germany, I know more people who own unlocked
iPhones than I know who have bought them through t-mobile
(Apple's exclusive partner for Germany.)

[partytildawn-20159620461052270]

Agree. Many missing phones unlocked.

I live in downtown Portland, OR. We're a very high tech community, and we're the hub for chip manufacturing with Intel HQ here which might explain why of the 9 friends that I know of with iPhones, 7 of these 9 are using unlocked phones on a network other than AT&T.

[Bong Dizon]

"Missing" iPhones have gone to the gray market

There are no missing iPhones or piles of unsold iPhones in the US. They are being bought in the US, hacked and resold/used in countries where the iPhone is yet not sold. A relative of mine bought two iPhones in the US and had them hacked for use outside of the US - which is pretty easy to do. I number of stores in the Philippines sell hacked iPhones. I know that hacked iPhones are also being sold in China, HK and other places in Asia. It's a mistake to correlate iPhone sales and AT&T subscriptions because there is a large gray market.

[sinpolines]

ANOTHER APPLE LIE exageration, probably

Could perhaps the 1.7 "missing: IPhones simply be another lie and exageration from Steve Jobs and Apple?

Apple and Jobs often lie and exagerate big time to overhype their junk.

Looks like Apple will not be selling 10 million IPhones in the IPhone's first year as Steve Jobs arrogantly stated at introduction, unless more funny math is used.

[Lee in San Diego]

FUD and lies

n/t

[Macaresafer]

Somebody's forgotten the rest of the world!

So AT&T only signed up 2 million iPhone users and Apple sold 4 million? Could that mean that they've sold the other 2 million in countries outside the US? <sarcasm>Nah! The rest of the world doesn't use cell phones, do they?</sarcasm>

[FutureGuy]

lets just look at AT&T first

AT&T is now selling iPhones for $399 down almost 50% in just a few months, infact now its around the same price as other smart phones.

[aj_nsc]

You're getting it wrong!!!

Don't put words in Jobs mouth....he originally said he would have sold 10 million iPhones by the end of 2008....not in the 12 months of 2008 alone!!!

[fred dunn]

How many people can afford $3000 for 2 Yrs

First you buy the phone for $599.00 then because Apple gets a cut of the pie from AT&T (that was part of their agreement) the contract airtime is right at $100 per month with a two year contract.

$599 (actually $650 after taxes) then $2400 over the following two years.

I'll stick with my complimentary phone and $50/mo plan. If I want data I'll get a small laptop and a wireless card. Even then the rates are cheaper than what AT&T's iPhone contract is.

There may be a sucker born every day, but not everybody in a day is a sucker.

So those that are pleased with your iPhones, I'm happy for you. But especially now with the economy going in the tank I think I'll keep my money for food, mortgage, gasoline, you know the luxuries.
:-)

[djrubik]

How many people can afford $1800 for 2 years?

That's some interesting math, Fred.

iPhones are $399, not $599. Not everyone gets the $99/mo plan
either. I don't know why you assume that. The $59/mo plan is
suitable for most users.

So, yes, I think many people can afford $1800 for 2 years. It's not
that different from the total price of a regular smartphone.

[flydoggie]

Where are you getting these #s?

My iPhone cost me $299 and the service plan is $59.95 per month and includes unlimited data, text, etc. The plan is cheaper than my old cell phone plan. That works out to less than $2,000 over 2 years which is about the same as what I spent over the last 2 years with my Moto Razr. Get your facts straight before posting ignorant comments.

[skw2000]

lawyer point of view

I am surprised an attorney with securities experience has not spoken on this issue yet. When Apple says it "sold" 4 million units, it means that consumers purchased 4 million units, not that these phones are sitting on shelves. As someone who has been involved in SEC enforcement, I cannot believe that Apple would disclose this number in a conference call, link the number to "sales" and really mean that inventory is piling up somewhere. This is a distinction, and if Apple were so careless to misrepresent, it would be subjected to major SEC fines, and many, many securities lawsuits. So when speculating about what this number means, remember that you are accusing Apple of major fraud and securities violations if you believe that inventory piling is equated to sales.

[CmdrRickHunter]

Who do they sell to?

I'm no master of law, but is it possible that Apple "sells" phones to AT&T, who then sells them to us?

If so, that might give them that number fudging power.

[sanenazok]

Macworld ad is no SEC statement

Apple's 4 mil is the figure that appeared during Macworld not SEC filings. You can say whatever you want during MacWorld and everybody will ooh and ahh.

[James98765]

Regular Consumers Would Rather Wait?

Well, my friends and associates are by no means as good as a national poll or survey; however, their reason for holding off on the iPhone is simple: they are waiting until they are able to purchase the iPhone through a different provider. Even those that are currently using Cingular/AT&T are waiting until the device and (associated) plan become more affordable.

I honestly have to wonder how much AT&T paid Apple to be the sole provider of the iPhone for the first four years of the product's life. I would say it was a mistake for Apple to use only one provider; however, the only folks I can really see paying such exsorbant prices for the current package are early adopters and business people, so this gives Apple and AT&T the freedom to focus on recouping some of the initial investment costs related to R&D (or in AT&T's case; whatever price they paid to be the sole provider) all while the marketing machine preps the masses for iPhone when AT&T's contract expires.

So it's going to be a very interesting road for the iPhone IMO; however again, I have to wonder why analysts are surprised by the slow-down, as it seems fairly obvious to regular folks paying for regular plans.

- James

[kwong]

count me as one

I am one them. I will not lock myself to AT&T with two years contract just because of iphone. I will buy the iphone when I can use it with any GSM wireless network. By then, I think I will have much better options, maybe .M-phone from Motorola, N-phone from Nokia, S-phone and more........ Good job Apple.

[punterjoe]

I think you have it right

You don't have to be anti iPhone to be reluctant to invest that kind of money in a first-gen product. I think iPhone will be a game changer more for how it redefines the market than how many units the original phone sells. Assuming the product evolves as expected, it may own the market when it gets faster networking, the battery situation improves and enterprise support is added. I still think AT&T made a good long-term business decision, but they may have overestimated the short-term impact. You don't change the world overnight.

[itango]

Reasons I have not bought one

1. Available only through AT&T (I don't like them, based on horrible prior experience)

2. Does not work in Asia, only in Europe. Of course, you can hack the phone, so that it works in Asia and through other services, but then you cannot download updates without risking a "bricked" phone.

American companies are crazy - their knee jerk reactions are always to "restrict use" and "punish" their customers. Overseas, customers buy a phone that will work all over the world, and they are not "locked" into special phones, or into 2 year service contracts. Although the service contracts may be a bit more expensive than over here, true competition between carriers (the knowledge that a customer can change service at any time)keeps rates reasonable much better than "lock in" periods, and restrictive technology.

This is why overseas people enjoy better telephony service, and more choice. Who told the companies that everyone wants a "cheap" phone, in exchange for a two year contract? There are many people like me that would pay the full price for a phone, in order not to be "restricted" or locked in. Why can the companies not offer both options?

That way, the people that want a "cheap" phone, can put up with the hassle and restrictions, but people who are willing to pay the true cost for a phone that can be used all over the world with any carrier can do so.

Will they ever learn?

[MCOjerry]

Full Price

Do you actually pay attention when you shop? All carriers DO offer
you the full price option to buy with no contract. It's advertised
right next to the discounted price.

[ralfthedog]

New iPhone to use anti positron battery.

I have heard from more than one source that the new iPhone will use a battery based on anti positrons. It will not emit any more radiation than a normal cell phone battery. It will not be user replaceable.

The battery will contain toxic substances and will require some care in disposal.

[dragonfly8610]

Hmmm.....who is this brainchild?

positron = antimatter equiv of electron
anti-positron = matter equiv of positron
electron = anti-positron

Seems to me this is how every electrical device works anyways...so how is this 'battery' any different from what we have now?

You should do a little research ralf.

[oldmangardens]

Apple's demand problem is AT&T; not the iPhone

If you go into any AT&T cellular kiosk/store front (formerly
Cingular) you will see only Motorola Razors, LG's, Samsung and
other cell phones.

You have to look or ask to see an iphone in them. AT&T has had
a bad marketing attitude about the iPhone since it was released.
Does anyone remember the weekend release where AT&T
provided no technical support until the following Monday, and
even then it took most of the day to get through to customer
support. Of course they have the iPhones stacking up. They are
all in the back room in boxes. You cannot sell a product if you
do not promote it. Apple moved them; AT&T could have if they
bothered.

[MCOjerry]

This is true...

...why would AT&T actually push the iPhone when they have to
share some of the profits from the service. Of course they'd rather
sell another phone, but you REALLY want the iPhone, you are
unlucky enough to only be able to get it from them.

They are actually being fiscally smart.

[geezzerr11]

why not iphone?

Why would anyone want to buy something that restricts their freedom of choice. What does an iphone do that any other cell phone can't do? It is a slick design but the next phone along will be slicker so why get locked up for 2 years? Someone said you don't need 3G. Taking that argument a bit further most people don't need a cell phone. We got along nicely without them and now they are apparently a necessity of life; since when? Perhaps the cellphone serves to put distance between us in an increasing crowed world?

[bill__]

The problem is precisely AT&T

The problem extends beyond AT&T sales and promotion. There are people out here, myself as one, that do not want to be married to AT&T's network or pricing. Witness the considerable interest in unlocking as proof that many feel the same.

I'm also waiting for an iPhone that doesn't have to be shipped back to Apple to change the battery after it no longer charges. The early iPods were the same way. Apparently Apple cuts corners like this to speed introduction to the market, then rectifies the design later.

[MCOjerry]

Do you own a new iPod?

You still can't change the battery yourself.

[brundlefly76]

Waiting for 3G

I thought the biggest disappointment of MacWorld was that there was no 3G iPhone announcement. Yikes.

[ralfthedog]

If they had...

If they had, the people who purchased an iPhone for Christmas would be going exiting boost phase and going ballistic right now. I would bet that an announcement will come before summer.