Comments on: OLPC fires back at Intel, children learn nothing

Nothing warms the soul more than watching two organizations try to claim moral high ground while belittling goals and methods of their rival, all in the name of children.

[mik3cap]

More Than One Laptop?

Competition is best? More than one laptop is best? That would be a wonderful world to live in, one where interests competed fairly in ideal theoretical conditions. The fact is, we do not live in that world, and Intel is a 5,000 pound gorilla that is only interested in profit and is willing to take whatever underhanded measures it needs to to get it.

This is all about what serves children best, not what profits the mega-corporation the most. The cheapest, least power consuming, most portable, and most free of monopoly influence laptop benefits the children best, end of story. Like bloated pigs, the mega-corps are afraid that if they don't stick their nose deep in everywhere, they might miss out on some food.

Let Intel and Microsoft do their best to create alternatives to the XO; the bottom line is that they?ll have to sacrifice profits to truly create a competing product, or exercise their monopoly muscles. And why would they do that? Because the minute they create a product that?s cheaper in the third world, it devalues their products in the first world - the same problem drug companies have selling their products in both spheres. But they'll try anyway, because for them, it's all about the bucks; they'll only give up if it costs "too much" to improve children's lives.

This is about Intel rushing to an ?emerging market? to greedily grab whatever pie they can - when the fact of the matter is that the *children* have always been there, but Intel never cared enough to make them their customers because it wasn?t worth sacrificing their profit margin. Only now that someone else is making inroads, they?re being forced to run in and try to eat OLPC?s lunch to maintain their world dominance.

[Penguinisto]

Not Exactly...

[i]"Because the minute they create a product that?s cheaper in the third world, it devalues their products in the first world - the same problem drug companies have selling their products in both spheres."[/i]

You do know there is a vast difference between a new HP laptop with a Core2 Duo and 4GB of RAM, and a lightweight low-horsepower laptop that runs not much more than itself and a few educational programs, right?

The Drug Company analogy doesn't hold up here... a "solid" laptop in the first world isn't the exact same laptop in the third. In the drug realm, a pill in the third world is the exact same chemical compound as that sold in the first.

/P

[hetzbh]

Intel is not being smart in this case

Just look at both machines. XO is built specifically to extreme conditions. Try to spill a glass of water on XO and on ClassMate PC, see which one survives. Here's a hint: XO will keep running..

And then there's the network configuration: XO is built with Mesh network, to out-perform ANY standard wifi configuration, because the network bandwidth there is very limited. What Classmate gives you? standard 802.11 b/g. Gee, reall helpful Intel!

What about the screen? swivel XO and you can use it's B/W resolution as an eBook reader. What intel got? 7" 800x480 standard LVDS LCD panel. XO gives you 1200x900 resolution with extremly low power requirements!

There are few other different issues that you can check at laptop.org or classmatepc.com. See for yourself which solution is built for 3rd world countries and which one looks like just a custom form factor with a standard PC shoved in.

If companies want the Intel solution, IMHO they should talk to ASUS and buy their EEE PC. I'm sure they'll get a big discount + modifications they wanted at a price LOWER that what Intel gives, but if they want a fully tailored solution that has been TRIED and TESTED configuration, then they should talk to OLPC, cause this machine is the best configuration for them.

[ittesi259]

Intel is playing it smart

So they pulled themselves out of a group that is being restrictive on their business. Nothing wrong with that. Your comment is so full of bashing Intel's ClassMate that you fail to discuss the true reasons they left. Someone wants major technology players to come together...and bend to his every whim. Intel has an obligation to shareholders, so they were very wise to pull out, before their is a mutiny and the board gets voted out with people who will do it.

[cary1]

Great!

Let's face it dude! You are being ridiculous now.

When people compare Windows PC vs Linux, Windows has an upper hand because of all the available software and hardware compatibility. So most people use Windows even though they have to pay for it.

On the other hand, low-cost computer for developing world is an untouched market, where everyone has an equal chance to succeed. Still, you are having a hard time selling your non-profit product against a for-profit product (which costs almost the same as XO)

And how can you expect someone else not to sell their products in the same market as yours? Tomorrow, Richard Stallman and Linus Trovalds will ask Microsoft to stop selling Windows and Apple to stop selling OSX anywhere in the world. Will that make any friggin sense?

If Intel is selling Classmate PCs for a profit, then it's a shame on you, because in this case, Intel has been able to have profit margins even at this price, while you are selling yours for no profit margin.

If Intel is doing this as a charity and not make money out of it, then you should stop whining. After all, your "goal" is to give children in third world countries to have a computer and not your computer!

[hetzbh]

Regarding the price

If you look at the Wikipedia, you'll find that the goverment of Vietnam paid $250 per Classmate PC, while the XO costs $188, A 62$ difference.

[DarkPhoenixFF4]

Hey?

Can you even hear most of the responses anymore, or do you have your head so far up Bill's ass everything is silent?

[Ormond Otvos]

Lame rhetorical questions don't solve problems.

This whole article is a waste of photons.

A couple slaps at Negroponte, a wet noodle for Intel.

But never, NEVER talk about corporate greed.

Intel is the scorpion, the kids the frog.

[wallyhubbard]

Corporate Greed

I agree. Lame rhetorical questions don't solve problems, any more than does taking a swipe at an article for not talking about corporate greed.

Mr. Otvos, kindly use the photons you're so concerned about to provide us with specifics on
corporate greed, together with your solution(s).

Wally Hubbard

[Commander_Spock]

"Elvis Has Left The Building"!

"Intel has never been shy about its desire to sell the Classmate PC as one of many possible products for the developing world, and that seems to have offended Negroponte. "As we said in the past, we view the children as a mission; Intel views them as a market."... Hello world! "Elvis (INTEL) Has Left The (OLPC) Building" and has flown away on an "executive business" jetliner. =-O !

[sinolonghai]

OLPC reminds me a story

I'm a Chinese and I visited a poor rural village located in China's poorest region a few years ago. We met a girl who dropped out from school due to poverty. Next time we visited this family, we donated a sheep to them and expected them to earn some profit from the wool to pay the girl's tuition. But the third time we visited them, we only found the sheep was gone. Where was the sheep, we asked. The reply was shocking: they slaughted it and cook it as food! How stupid it was! We all were angry. Then the head of the family explained to us. First, everyone was so poor in the vilage that it was very possible that the sheep might be stealed (and ended as food in another family). Second, the sheep might get sick or even die easily (That's true. That village didn't have clean drinking water even for human). Third, the road to town was so bad that he could not take sheep to market to sell it. (Even our truck took several hours from the nearest town to that village). Therefore, instead of losing the sheep for nothing, they decided to use it as a precious protein source. After learning their explanations, we realized that the ones who were stupid were not the family, but us. Donating a sheep might be a brilliant idea in the eyes of rich people, but a stupid idea for poor guys.

When I learned OLPC, I recalled that sheep. In some sense, the XO laptop is even worse than the sheep: at least the sheep can be used as food.

By the way, currently in China there is no OLPC project, but there is ASUS Eee PC for sale. Guess who buys Eee PC? Not the poor guys in rural but the rich guys in the rich cities. They use Eee PC as a powerful PDA and in rich cities, you can find the Wi-Fi signal easily...

[thomas.terrrainnova.org]

You're completely missing the point

I disagree with your article:

1. Competition will not improve the lives of children in developing countries in any way. The OLPC laptop HAS to be sold in large volumes, or it will not be sold at all.

2. Children do not need competition in order to get a better product. They do not need many choices. One laptop is more than enough, it will provide them all they need. Remember, right now they have nothing.

3. Poor nations should not be used by companies as their capitalistic playground. They already make enough money, they don't have to ruin the efforts of OLPC to make even more. By the way, where was Intel before OLPC was started?

I would suggest to Intel to get out of the way of OLPC and let them do their good work. They can feed the hunger of their shareholders in the markets of the developed world.

[Tom Krazit]

Somewhat condescending

"They do not need many choices. One laptop is more than enough, it will provide them all they need. Remember, right now they have nothing."

Personally, I think that's a decision that those people should make for themselves, not one that should be made for them by the OLPC or Intel.

I have nothing against the XO, it seems like an interesting product. But to suggest it's the only appropriate product for everyone in the developing world--no matter how noble Negroponte's goals might be--is ludicrous. Would you want someone telling you that Product A is the only one you can have? Maybe, maybe not.

[suyts]

Well said commrade.

Now put down your copy of Das Capital and look around at reality. Competition has always help nations develop. The idea that anyone knows what is best for another group of people is just another form of a old and failed ideology. You honestly believe you should be able to tell our poor friends, 'no, you can't buy this cheap pc, you have to buy this other one. It's better because their intentions are purer.' 'no, it has nothing to do with the fact that I hate capitalism.'

Yep....same old same old.

[cconsaul]

Instead of all of this posturing?

Why doesn't One Laptop Per Child simply go to AMD and ask them to solve their little problem for them. AMD has a long history of delivering what Intel claims to already have accomplished (Remember the 386?) and with AMDs help they might be able to deliver a laptop for under a hundred dollars. It may have some minor overheating problems until they get all the bugs out but isn't it the kids who really matter here? I have been a humble recipient of AMD's expertise for years and would be happy to hear that third world kids got some of the good fortune I have been receiving all this time!

I still remember the day that I first read about one laptop per child and went that same day to a store where they were already selling one. It had a Linux system and an AMD processor, and you had to send in for a couple of rebates plus an in store rebate. I think it was also an in store promotion, but that's beside the point. The point is that it was a couple of years ago at least and if One Laptop per Child hasn't figured out what the retail market already knows, maybe they'd better just adopt a child per pennies a day and let the kid write them a letter once a year like they offer on those TV ads?

[murrayr1]

What is Intel Thinking?

For those of us that have supported a project and vision such as this, Intel has done itself more damage than good. Whether OLPC was run like a first class business or not, the response alone speaks volumes as to how the public perceived it.

Large corporations don't get that this type of publicity diminishes public perception. What a missed opportunity for Intel to learn about new markets, develop better technology and appear noble in the pursuit.

[3tire]

So I take it

You think Intel should
1. agree to stop doing business with ANY company also trying to
develop a low cost computer because it competes with OLPC?
2. stop trying to make money on technology used in the OLPC?
3. Allow Negroponte to be the ONLY supplier of cheap
computers to any poverty stricken child?....In the world???
And the payback is: Intel will learn about new markets, develop
better technology (for what I don't know since they can't use it)
and appear noble.
I...uh...oh wait...C'mon, Hector Ruiz....is that you? Man, you're
such crackup! Who would have thought you actually read CNet??
??

[3tire]

I was wondering how long

it was before someone waxed melancholy about "the children....the
children...think about the children.....".

[dkaufman33]

You are absolutely correct

This just about hits the nail on the head. Intel would be doing it shareholders a disservice to continue to focus efforts on a broad low-margin business which has little if any profit to be made for years to come. Let the OLPC develop the market and donate some funds to the process and as the countrie's skill levels and need for more sophisticated machines develops -- then sell the fancy higher margin devices to an emerging "market" which will have developed good computer skills with the OLPC. Intel - please don't get in the way of progress that OLPC is trying to make with a profit motive at this time, it will kill the golden goose that is developing before your very eyes.

[detour_ample]

You are obviously out of touch with FOSS

FOSS, which you will probably have to look up in the net has tied you market-only thinkers in a brain knot.

OLPC is a charity. Intel/Microsoft want to make a profit in the same places that OLPC wants to donate. That should be a no-brainer,and is for the recipients. Why is that so hard to understand? Why does a supposedly smart company like Intel think it has anything to gain by beating up on a charity?

The other thing you fail to grasp is the legions of programmers and other techies that are morally opposed to the greed exhibited by the WinTel monopoly.

That monopoly can slow the day of their demise with their campaign of FUD, but they can't expect to prevail with those tactics.

BTW, I'm an active embedded systems designer since the late 1960s. The greed at Intel killed one of my projects in the early 1970s, and I haven't used an Intel product since then -- just several millions of other microcomputers.

Greed bites!

[Penguinisto]

Do you truly understand FOSS?

FOSS has no concern for profit vs. intent.

Read the GPL sometime. It specifically permits selling improvements for profit, so long as you extend the same freedoms down the chain. It makes no distinction between corporation or charity... it is only concerned with the code, and in keeping that code open.

Incidentally, the Classmate can (and does) run Mandriva on it as well as the stripped XP that MSFT offers.

The two laptops are for vastly different markets - the XO 50% of the price of a Classmate, which by itself makes for radically different pottential markets.

/P

[core4quado]

India raises middle-finger ...

... err - i mean, _red-flag_ ;^)

there's a good reason why some(many?) countries don't need this lo-tech ...
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/blog/eyeonasia/archives/2006/07/india_says_no_t.html

[DarkPhoenixFF4]

Smooth, real smooth...

Jump the gun on a story taking OLPC to task for "hurting Intel" this morning, and now that the truth is starting to come out, try to hide and cover it up and claim the same moral high ground you claim both sides are trying to seize. Nice distortion of reality there.

Don't want to look like an idiot now, do we?

[knack4]

Bias

Tom Krazit's extreme bias is shocking to me.

Intel is far from innocent in this dispute. They have clearly violated their agreements with OLPC, and engaged in predatory and disingenuous sales tactics in opposition to an organization they pretended to back. Worse, in pursuit of sales of their competing product, they used the fact of their inside position to lend weight to false allegations of financial instability of OPLC.

Probably neither side is blameless. But Tom ignores innumerable facts that fault Intel severely while he slams OLPC exclusively. A sad excuse for journalism. For SHAME.

I have no affiliation of any kind with either entity. I wonder mightily whether Krazit could truthfully say the same.

[georgr]

Waiting is not an option

It will take time for the native laptop designers to appear. First, you need a mental shift so that people actually accept involvement in industry and engineering. Second, you need some 15-40 years after that to let them develop their own industrial culture that would be enough to develop their own high-tech products.

And will the idea of a cheap laptop for kids be still relevant in 2030?

[buddhafaction]

Why shill for Intel?

Intel is engaging in predatory practices by joining OLPC's board
and making a cash contribution and Mr. Krazit whines about
Negroponte's "messianic complex". Huh? Never saw that in the
computer world before did ya. psst two words: Steve Jobs.

Intel want's to sell more expensive computers (to gov'ts who
don't have a whole lot of cash) that are power hungry for people
who don't have the cash for electricity. And don't forget the
promises and agreements that Intel made and ignored -
"philosophical differences" my @ss. But for Mr. Krazit and Intel
that is just OK because it is called capitalism. You both make me
sick. Idiots like you guys will ensure the loonies on the left will
fight another day.

[Penguinisto]

Why is it a shill?

[i]"Intel is engaging in predatory practices by joining OLPC's board and making a cash contribution and Mr. Krazit whines about Negroponte's "messianic complex".[/i]

1) that's not any sort of logical dissonance, and

2) Negroponte does have a bit of a complex... even many of the folks who support the OLPC (myself included) have a problem with the guy's ego at times.

[i]"psst two words: Steve Jobs. Intel want's to sell more expensive computers (to gov'ts who don't have a whole lot of cash) that are power hungry for people who don't have the cash for electricity."[/i]

There is a vast diff between countries to whom electricity is a luxury (say, Niger or Sudan), and countries to whom electricity is fairly common but tech is not (say, Kosovo). Different markets, you know?

...and what does Steve Jobs, CEO of Apple, have to do with this? The Third World isn't exactly an ideal market for PowerMacs, you know?

...and finally, what does "the left" have to do with any of this? I'm ideologically Not Left, but my wee posting history shows that I'm not exactly Microsoft or proprietary software's best friend, either.

Please, think this through a bit next time, 'kay?

/P

[geezzerr11]

OLPC fires back at Intel, children learn nothing

what a sanctimonious op-ed. The author seems to somehow be oblivious to the ethic that if you don't try to screw your partner especially behind his back. Intel's attempts to persuade a customer to buy what was essentially a competing product from them rather than a partnered product just stinks. The sly, oblique attacks on Negroponte's objectives and personal integrity are about as low as one could go. On the other hand Intel's are now clear.
I wonder what happened to the saleswoman. Was she promoted or fired?

[tfosorcim]

Will Rogers

I'm reminded of Will Rogers' reply to a question about his skill at being a humorist. To paraphrase him: "It ain't hard at all, what with all those fellers in Washington writin' material for me."
Well, it ain't at all hard to comin' up with responses to "news articles" like this when you've got fellers like Tom Krazit writin' material for you.

To Prof. Negroponte: I was in high-tech sales for years. One thing I learned from my customers:
whenever Intel and Microsoft say to you "I'm here to help", you run away as fast as you can.
Cut any ties/agreements/etc. with Microsoft NOW. It's not clear who learned their predatory practices from whom (perhaps it was independent on MS's and Intel's parts), but the same old Chinese saying applies, particularly to you and the OLPC project, Prof N.: "If you lie down with dogs, you arise with fleas".

To c/net: this brand of "reporting" is totally and completely unacceptable for a supposedly fair and objective source of news (does the term "yellow journalism" ring a bell?). Kinda calls into question your price list for "fairness".
Your response should be to distance yourself as quickly as possible from Mr. Krazit.

I really (stupidly) thought that Intel was above this type of activity. The last computer I bought (for Christmas) has an Intel processor. The operative words are "last", and "Intel processor".

Here's to you and yours for a peaceful, tranquil New Year.

[Commander_Spock]

You Get What You Pay For!

You said; "the same old Chinese saying applies,", how about remembering the Socialist Philosophy also which goes like this - "from each according to his/her ability". Since yours truly was lucky enough to have obtained an IBM (DOETSCH) ThinkPad (which runs OS/2) for US$50.00; how about going around the world and collecting all the IBM, Toshiba... ThinkPads that are headed for the "dumps" of the rich countries of the world (refurbish these) then re-distribute these along with schools, food, clothing, clean drinking water, housing... to needy countries. Read the subject line!

[Commander_Spock]

The IBM (DOETSCH) ThinkPad...

... should be the "standard base design" for the OLPC period.