Comments on: Why do Apple customers care so much?
They engage in flame wars in online chats. They stand in line all night just to get their hands on new products. They expect nothing but the best. Every company should have such happy problems.
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So I'm looking at Mac. Alas, Mac isn't better, just different. Plus Apples has a certain way of doing things that's just as draconian as Microsoft. Just in a different way. Microsoft is more open in some ways (product wise, not as a company). Apple much less so. They have different issues. Apple though hasn't reached out and cost me money.
Also I'm looking at Linux and I'll probably build me a Linux computer for use as a media center because Linux has none of the draconian issues that both MS and Apple have. Linux though has other issues. Namely, it's #3 and a distan't #3 at that. But talented fans make it a contender.
Rabid fans of any camp won't be the ones to help me figure out the best way to get the job done. Only the rational ones.
Like Linux... hardly any commercial games -sigh.
Furthermore, in the data centers the real servers are running Linux, simply because it's cheaper than running a proprietary Unix.
Until then - Macs are pretty good (but expensive) toys for children.
P.S. no new OS in 6 years (just gone from OS X 10.0 to 10.5)? Even Microsoft turned out major OS updates more often than that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X
With each release Apple has made improvements or added new features.
A quick overview of the version history:
Mac OS X 10.0 (Cheetah) March 2001
Mac OS X 10.1 (Puma) Sept 2001
Mac OS X 10.2 (Jaguar) Aug 2002
Mac OS X 10.3 (Panther) Oct 2003
Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger) Apr 2005
Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) Oct 2007
During that same time, Microsoft has released
Windows XP Oct 2001
Windows XP 64-bit Ed Mar 2003
Windows XP Pro x64 Ed Apr 2005
Vista Nov 2006
I am excluding Microsoft releases such Windows Servers as most consumers do not buy server software.
I use Windows at work, I also have a Dell and a Mac at home. I prefer my Mac but use my Dell for work purposes.
Yeah, those are good tools you are talking about, but you can do some serious sh#$@ on a Mac, too:
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2003/10/60821
(It's an old article, but it illustrates my point.)
You do realize I can pick nearly any niche uber-expensive sound or video suite and promptly throw that phrase right back at you. (you know, the kind so expensive that they come with a computer geared specifically to run it). ;)
[i]"P.S. no new OS in 6 years (just gone from OS X 10.0 to 10.5)? Even Microsoft turned out major OS updates more often than that."[/i]
1) In that same 'logical' vein, Vista is only Windows NT v.7, a lineage that stretches back to 1994-ish.* For someone who claims to be big and bad in IT (at least by implication), you sure don't know much...
2) Microsoft came out with exactly one new iteration of their flagship NT engined-OS in six years: Vista. It released roughly three years later than planned.
* For the frighteningly-stupid: XP is NT v.6, Win2k is NT v.5, and Windows NT 4 is... well, take a guess. If you can't figure that one, then don't ask me about Windows NT 3.51, please. ;)
/P
finder likes to restart occasionally { I use 10.3 because I don't like the slow down from further upgrading of the OS }
The main problem that other personal computer users have with the apple zealots is their sense of superiority {come on it's just a computer, its like dress up a rock with googly eyes}, yes windows does suck, but if anyone knocks OEM parts I will {mentally, don't want it coming off as an actual threat} smack them upside the head.
Just last week I upgraded a 3-year year old $300 e-machines computer with a 7600GT and extra ram so the user cold play Medal of Honor: Airborne and it plays pretty well. Macs on the other hand you have to throw away the computer to play a year old game.
Apple's greatest advantage is their OS which something old {UNIX}, something borrowed {BSD}, and something new {copying, and just a tad of originality}.
In reality, it's mostly bought. The development of OSX originated with the NextStep project, which was sponsored by Sun Microsystems. The fundamental structure of the OS was developed during that period: matching BSD with the Carnegie-Mellon Mach kernel. Apple bought the rights to that system, developed a graphics layer for it, and marketed the product as OSX. OS 8/9 was the last Apple OS with a true Apple pedigree.
a sinister plan to either attack the Mac and put Apple out of
business at the bidding of Microsoft"
Blogs afford the author the ability to amplify a claim without
comprehensive data to support it. Given the little data available
in anecdotal accounts, it's only human nature to react, as
unreasonably as it may seem, with more anecdotal and more
uncorroborated information.
It's part and parcel of the blog culture and if you don't like it
then either don't allow comments (Paul Thurrott does that) or
include more data and sources.
Because they get me where want to go. Although I have to say
the Mac is much more versatile. The Jeep is not really great on
long road trips while the Mac is.
When people ask me about them I give them an honest answer.
I tell them I'm happy with my Jeep and I'm happy with my Mac. I
am not above telling them about difficulties I've had (I had a
problem with setting up Leopard but since then like it very
much) but I also tell them about the great things I can do with
my machines.
A few weeks ago I was at a Apple reseller and got in a
conversation with a would-be customer. He was in his sixties
(I'm in my forties) and was so angry about Vista that he was
looking to switch to a Mac. He'd used PC's in business for over
twenty years but is now retired. We talked a bit about Windows
3.11, 95, 98, Me and XP. I've used them all and still use XP at
work. I showed him a few things on the Macs on display and
told him why I like the computers and why I switched on my
home computers. I don't know if he bought one or not. I was
just looking to help him out. Just like the times I have pulled
people with stranded vehicles out of the mud with my Jeep. Why
do Apple customers care so much? Why does anyone care about
anything?
I take pride in what I am able to accomplish with the tools I use
and when a tool helps you accomplish a job well you can't help
but have a certain affection for it. It's not about the computer so
much as what you're able to do with it. Same with the Jeep.
I tell people if they want to go to places beyond the road, get a
Jeep and if you want to go beyond where your PC takes you, get
a Mac.
because they realize that they've spent so much money on the
WRONG operating system & the WRONG hardware... possibly for
their entire lives. It's very difficult to look in the mirror and say that
you made a big mistake, and that you've been living that mistake
for most of your life. They will defend their Windows decision to
the death, instead of just opening their eyes to the better world of
Mac.
bought a Dell instead of the Mac I recommended to her... Now it
is a year and a half later. She hates her Dell with a passion. After
her third reformat after her antivirus and anti spyware rendered
her Dell laptop's internet connection useless, she has had it.
After gloating initially about her cheaper Dell, she has finally
admitted that she bought the cheap thing to save money, and it
has cost her much more money and wasted time than if she had
bought a Mac. She is going for a Mac now, and her Dell will be
sold to some poor soul who will just have to deal with it.
Really, the question for Mac zealots now is how to make sure
Apple keeps up its quality. Rising numbers of Mac users will tax
their usual ways of doing things. If Apple loses sight of their
customers and quality, the zealots will disappear and somebody
else, yet unknown, with better ideas, will steal the stage.
What it does have to do with is the fact that everyone has been using Windows for how long? People don't like change especially when it comes to technology. Why do you think consumers don't like Vista? It's because it isn't like XP. It is to different for them so they refuse to upgrade. I've asked a ton of people why they don't use a mac especially since they are stable and reliable these days and they said they are afraid of the change and don't want to have to relearn everything.
I'm a Windows user and I think a Mac is a great alternative. I've used one before and I didn't switch because majority of the applications I use are on Windows and I really don't want to shell out more money for a mac. On top of that I found it very confusing to use. Everything was so different then Windows that I walked away from it (::COUGH COUGH:: Exactly whats happening with Vista::COUGH COUGH::). It took me using a Mac at least 10 times to get use to it. Imagine what it would be like for your average consumer who's never touched one? And this is coming from some one is very tech savvy and all.
On top of that all the software I bought is for Windows only. Why am I going to go out and pay for the same exact price and software again but this time for a Mac? What to have a "more secure" OS? I'm sorry but myself and many consumers would rather not dish out more money for software they already purchased again and be on an OS that has it's own security issues, then to pay for everything twice.
So please do everyone a favor and get off your Apple Fanboyism thrown. And look at it from a logical stand point of view. It has nothing to with the "they realize that they've spent so much money on the WRONG operating system & the WRONG hardware". It has to do with the fact that everyone is more comfortable Windows and it works for them. Your forgetting about what kind of world we live in.
is without the quotes by the way) that Apple isn't holding its promise stated with a string of Apple ads. The title is clear
enough to prove this point (it is also all over the 'article'). But
you don't have any evidence to support this.
I do have evidence, from a lot of people I know and from my
own experience, that every singe statement mentioned in the
ads is true. And even more so. No ad is stating that a Mac is
perfect and flawless, the claim is that a Mac is better and fun to
work with and virus free and intuitive, etc. All exactly true. Read
my previous comment on this 'It is as promised and more.'
Misleading people by stating (or suggesting) that Apples ad
claims are false and that a Mac is 'just a PC' (and thereby the
same as a Windows PC) is a very bad thing. You could deprive
people of a much better computer experience and possible
carrier opportunities (and even fame, like my wife).
So if you don't have real arguments to support your suggestions,
stop writing in this way.
The rest of your article is (also) way of. Apple fans have existed
from the beginning. Not only from the day's when Apple was in
trouble.
The fact that Apple is in such a good position now is not the
result of a cultural or style phenomenon. It is in the first place
because they make better products than others. Think of it; lots
of people buying Apple computers and have a bad experience
using it, that would help sales... Of course not, it is the other
way around.
And to answer your title question, I care because Mac OS X is a
better product in almost every way than Windows and I would
like other people and myself to enjoy that.
It all boils down to a matter of taste...
reason that xbox users, pepsi drinkers, republicans, and fans of
"Lost" seem like zealots on web forums. Electronic
communications lack the emotional context and instant
feedback that tempers normal communication. There's a reason
that people rarely troll face-to-face conversations.
But it's pretty obvious why the article provoked a response. it
was pure flame-bait. I read it expecting to see a list of recent
problems with Apple computers; maybe glitches with leopard or
hardware recall issues or something. But there was nothing.
The article had all of the substance of a "Macs are bad" post on
alt.flame, and it's hardly surprising that people responded in
turn.
No wait, wrong thread!
Back to the topic, the crazy Apple fanboys that blindly place their faith in all things Steve Jobs are not right in the head. As a PC user, I don't appriciate how the mac cult assumes that I'm an idiot who can do nothing more than spreadsheets. I could show most people up in Photoshop/Illustrator any day of the week. And if any of you mac fanboys want to attack me for that comment, just tell me what kind of car you drive and I can throw it all right back at you.
taking an action to bring about change. I like my Prius because it
gets incredible gas milage, has great technology, and is something
new. I like Macs because they work great, have plenty of style and
personality. It sounds to me like you feel intimidated. Don't be.
Windows is a good operating system too. It just shouldn't be the
only one. How would you like it if everyone was forced to drive a
Prius?
same expansion options a PC does. It allows up to 32GB of ram,
various video card configurations, more slots for expansion, etc.
So you can go the route of the iMac or MacBook lines or you can
go the route of the Mac Pro for more advanced users who want
to mess with there machine... you still can not build one from
scratch like a PC, but that is why Apple has a better user
experience in the first place, they do not have to account for all
the possible configurations a user might dream up. PCs do give
you more options, but to say a Mac will not allow any changes is
incorrect. Once you get up the high end performance machines
like a Mac Pro, the price war does not exists either by the way,
check it out for your self.
boat, long as the beer's cool...
noellreed@mac.com
noellreed@mac.com
Bottom line: People are fed up with Windows and this revolution is on whether you like or it not. Call me a fanboy, I don't care, but I switched about a year ago and am glad I did.
buy AAPL. (i already own, best of ~40 [CSCO pretty latley] but AAPL
better still]) all this BS in this thread...
Money talks, BS walks
'nuff said
always correct. Apple certainly proves the point through elegance of
design, both hardware and software. Macintosh is a true counterpoint in
the technology world.
Most "common knowledge" opinions about the Mac are void of facts.
One of the biggest pieces of misconception is that the Mac system is
closed and incompatible. Not true. Like minorities everywhere, the Mac
must play nice in order to get along with the majority.
The real ugly issues of closed systems emerge when dominate players
herd their customers with proprietary technologies that are often
inferior to open standards. These tactics have kept Microsoft in trouble
with the Department of Justice for years, and also the European Union.
Microsoft's mantra "Freedom to Innovate" is a red herring. Whenever the
market innovates with any technology that would threaten the Microsoft
hegemony, Microsoft always introduces an incompatibility or competing
technology, then bundles and binds their "innovation" to their dominate
Windows operating system. This is not free market, it is quid pro quo.
Microsoft beats Apple because of herd psychology, Trojan Horse
technologies, and an occasional embrace and kiss of death for third-
party innovations like Java. Anybody who thinks Internet Explorer came
into being and was distributed free thanks to pure benevolence is
delusional.
American founding fathers knew it was an easy thing to have a king. In
the technology world, Microsoft is the solution for unquestioning
royalists. Anybody who looks deeper will find a better choice and a
better solution in Macintosh.
MSFT convinced many large corporations and developers that it was
"universal". haha. cretins
tricks to force people to use their products, and the unthinking
masses have followed along like lemmings off a cliff.
And yet this is a standard argument used against Mac users, that
we are non-thinking cultists, etc... It's very tiring. If we wanted
not to question anything, we would simply settle for the crap that is
windows.
some people that work at Apple as application developers. They
tell me that Apple thinks the Mac Zealots are one of their biggest
assets but at the same time they sort of scare them. They find
them a little creepy and unnerving but they're more than happy
to use them to promote Apple. Which makes sense, they are a
great resource but any time you run into this level of devotion it
can be disconcerting even if its helping you.
In the end it's good for Apple to have loyal customers, it forces Apple to fix mistakes quickly (like the iPhone pricing fiasco) so as to not loose this fan base.
Personally, I could care less what computing platform I use. I know 10 years from now NONE of the arguments as to what is better will matter one "bit" (sorry for the pun). I'm not even sure any one computing platform today is that much better: Linux/OS X/Windows - presented in alphabetical order - all do just about the same things and each has its share of problems. All I know is that I recently bought a top of the line Dell for my office with a great 22" Samsung LCD for $650 with tax and delivery (that's counting a gift card). I would have considered a Mac if an equivalent configuration didn't cost twice as much and I might have replaced Windows with Linux if Linux ran the software I need for my business.
Sure, maybe there's some odd facets to the Mac contingent, though at my own tech blog -- where I regularly rip Apple pretty roughly (though I think fairly) -- I've noticed that the inflammatory pro-Apple stuff has diminished as the Intel machines have taken off and the iPod monopoly has hardened. Hell, I used to get charged up when the geeks at work would make fun of me and my "pee-pee cee" (then the company actually bought a Mac, purportedly for testing their websites in Safari, and I was able to show them OS X, and that shut a lot of them up).
Yet I suspect most of the flaming is about the medium: email, comments and discussion boards, and blogs. As you know, even the best writers need good editors -- how much more so can this be true of Mac Fanboy or John Q. Geek, who might have the biggest iTunes library in town or the coolest Slackware network around, but can't string two sentences together without insulting or assaulting someone or something?
I always go for perspective: my geek blog is a separate page on my political blog. I cover war, poverty, natural disasters, government corruption, and the impending death of the entire planet to which tyrants at home and abroad are turning a blind eye. The tech stuff is a nice, refreshing break from all that, and the fun I have at the expense of Apple, M$, Dell, and the rest of the corpo-geek world is just that...fun.
ns
the world when they develop a culture that believes deeply in
the quality and beauty of their products. For me quality and
beauty equal parts of the same thing. It's the form vs function
debate of mid-20th century architecture, but when both are
married together in a seamless purpose, you get magic.
But it is more than quality and beauty. Apple consistently comes
up with the best ideas that move all us in a future direction that
is works out great for all of us.
- Don't insult our intelligence.
- by No Man December 12, 2007 10:32 AM PST
- Its all about page views. CNET has exactly one major source of revenue: advertisments. And advertisments must be viewed. Thus, the job of every writer at CNET is, at minumum, to write articles that people will read and, at best, to write articles that people will discuss heavily, thus bringing them back to the same page multiple times.
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- What Intelligence?
- by Sir Limey December 12, 2007 10:57 AM PST
- And your point is??? If you don't like it go somewhere else. Nobody is forcing you to read these articles. Or was it the fact he mentioned apple and MACs aren't perfect that brought out your irrational drivel(to quote you)
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- This is exactly my point
- by Tom Krazit December 12, 2007 11:32 AM PST
- The thesis of the article (Problems with the Mac promised land) wasn't "Macs aren't perfect." The thesis was Apple sells the Mac as perfection, which creates both a problem and an opportunity for the company when inevitable problems occur: new users might react more strongly than usual, because they expect more from Apple and less from Windows PCs. But also that since Apple receives better customer service ratings than its peers, it can win those people over for life if they respond quickly to problems.
- Like this View all 5 replies
Processing -
- Really hard to do
- by Troll Hard December 12, 2007 8:12 PM PST
- to insult a Mac user's intelligence when they so obviously think with their emotions like a moron does.
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- insult our intelligence
- by Nunya Bidnez December 12, 2007 9:26 PM PST
- kudos 4 getting it. yet we r compelled....
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Showing 2 of 6 pages (351 Comments)Thus, when a writer writes a an article with a thesis as pointless as, "Macs aren't perfect," he either does because he's 1) too incompetent to write about anything meaningful/useful, or 2) only interested in rattling the beehive for page views.
Not that I blame you. If I could paid to throw together internet hearsay and mindless drivel into an article, I'd probably do it too. But don't claim some holier-than-thou motivation for your sub-standard writing. You wanted to keep your job and get paid. Its the American dream. Congratulations on your success.
Go away and stop bothering us
Writing article that people will read and discuss does not automatically imply that all articles are written only to stir page views. That's a very short-term way of thinking that some writers do seize on, but it won't work over the long haul unless you're a master of the technique--like Dvorak--otherwise you'll be exposed as a shill.
That's not what I do, and if you really think that, you didn't read the earlier article, and you definitely haven't read most of what I've written.
And you can ask any journalist, in any field, and you'll get the same answer: none of us got into this business for the money.
Hard to insult something a Mac user doesn't even have.