Comments on: Microsoft: Apple wanted 'Laptop Hunters' ads pulled

Redmond's chief operating officer recounts a phone call he says he got from Apple's legal department, demanding the removal of the TV spots.

[seven7dust]

maybe it was a prank call and the guy bought it !!! who knows !
eitherway they did reduce the prices and bump up the battery specs , among other things
they might have a point when it comes to that Macbook pro commercial !

[magichr3]

You get what you pay for, especially with Macs. As you all recall, the people at Apple make good stuff for themselves, for their own taste --which turns out to be the best possible product and software. If you can't afford the quality then just admit it but don't try to tell us that a sow's ear (low end PC) is a silk purse. To many, many people that buy STRICTLY on price, explaining quality is like throwing pearls before swine. In other words, these low price PC buyers don't even know to know but they all eventually find out and worse, actually think they have to keep buying PC/MS junk. It's like flashlights, you either buy one maglites or many crappy plastic flashlights over time. Which do you have? Quality or crap?

And, by the way, legal departments "don't call" they just serve you with legal papers.

[Im_not_Herbert]

Apple makes- very tightly controls- the hardware *and* software. So I would say they damn should better work well together. MS, on the other hand, has to supply an OS that woks with literally *infinite* combinations of hardware and software, including legacy stuff going back for years. I tend to cut them a break when I consider that, and especially when I consider the fact that MS is not in the habit of dropping support for older processors *cough*G5*cough* when they release a service pack *cough*snowleopard*cough*.

Pearls before swine, eh? What do you say to the person who uses a PC because the software he wants/needs to use simply doesn't exist on a Mac? To the happy new Mac user who suddenly realizes he spent a whole lot of money for a computer that does not have the software he needs available?

And, by the way, legal departments *do* call. In this case, it would be known as "professional courtesy", I think.

[magichr3]

I appreciate that you make my argument better than I did... about how it is much easier for Apple to make a superior OS because they have to make their OS for their hardware. (Of course that hardware can also run "cough" Windows). And you further explain why MS Windows will probably never be as "cough" tightly integrated as Macs ?because they have quoting you now "literally *infinite* combinations of hardware and software, including legacy stuff going back for years." Thanks for explaining why Windows has been inferior and always will be inferior --because "cough" infinite is like, a really big number.

As far as Vertical Software that Mac's can't get, well Mac's have Vertical software that PC's can get --and typically, if a buyer is buying for a special need, they typically make sure their computer runs it. For 99% of apps are available for either system but at least if you do make that mistake you can "cough" run Windows on your Mac but unfortunately you can't recover from that mistake if you bought a PC. So it is the actually the PC user who takes it the shorts on that one.

The statement "professional courtesy" is amusing however, that "professional courtesy" would be from legal department to legal department ?and be considered confidential because it is a "professional courtesy" because they are "being nice" to inform them thus the word "Cough" courtesy.

[Im_not_Herbert]

Read into it what you will. OS X being a "superior" OS is not a provable argument, because there are no similar conditions under which to compare OS X and Windows. The reason for that is that Apple *will not let* me run OS X on my computer of choice- but they have no problem allowing Windows on their hardware. Why is that, I wonder?

If Apple allows someone to tinker with the machine OS X is running on, and a bad result ensues, Apple and all it's supporters will say it is because of the unsupported hardware/software, not because of any fault with the "superior" Apple OS. I have heard this more times than I can count. I find it interesting that Apple supporters do not apply the same standards to competitors products. If a PC has problems- for *any* reason- then it is a Windows problem, period.

BTW, *I* never asserted that *either* OS was superior. I simply pointed out that Windows has to support a much wider range of hardware and software. Ultimately, MS cannot be held fully responsible if someone else designs terrible hardware, software, or drivers.

I am not aware of any software available on a Mac than doesn't have a similar product available on PC. I am not speaking to the *quality* of that software, mind you- only the *availability*. I do, however, know of at least a few bits of software I use on PC that are simply not available on a Mac. I know, I looked, so ended up buying a Gateway laptop instead of the Mac I was considering. I have no *personal* problem with Apple products. I simply see no need to limit myself in terms of functionality if I don't have to. Others do fine with a Mac, good for them. To each his own and all that. What I will never understand is how some folks turn owing one kind of computer or another into some reflection of their own superiority as a person. Makes think there is something extremely important missing from their lives.

Professional courtesy, formal request as a way to prevent possible litigation, call it what you will. Hell, for all anyone knows, this Turner guy and the Apple lawyer in question have a personal history. Whatever the facts, to dismiss the story as a fabrication because "lawyers don't call" is simply wrong.

[peco412]

I'm a PC user, but bought my 14-year-old son a MacBook. I've tried using it, but after using PCs for 30 years, I just can't overcome the cultural differences between PCs and Macs. I don't have anything against Macs; they're just not for me. But my experiences with Microsoft OSs are totally at odds with the comments of all of the Vista bashers and other Apple-fanboys out there. I currently use Vista 64 Home Premium on my HP laptop, Vista 32 Home Premium on my daughter's HP laptop and Windows Home Server on my HP home server, and haven't experienced any catastrophic failures or any problems at all requiring technical support from anyone. I won't claim a totally problem-free PC experience, but I've always been able to repair my own problems, whether software or hardware. On teh other hand, I've also been pleased with Apple's support of my son's MacBook. When my nephew broke its screen with a flying PS3 controller just over a month after I bought it, Apple repaired it for free, even though user stupidity is not covered under the warranty. I guess my bottom line is that my family really enjoys the great variety of fruit that grows out of the PC-Apple competition in the marketplace, but there's much more fruit to be enjoyed on the PC side of the fight.

BTW - There are two iPod Touches in my household, but I can't wait to see the new Zune HD. You have to love competition in the marketplace!

[magichr3]

Very true, competition keeps everyone somewhat honest. It is a well known fact (kinda) that when IBM entered the personal computer market, that (in combination with MS-DOS) that the personal computer industry was SET BACK 10 years because people (then) only bought name ?and that name was IBM. And because they bought IBM's (because of reputation only) Microsoft was along for the non-innovative, cash collecting, free ride on IBM's back. Microsoft eventually and literally tried to buy whole companies to get innovation but their corporate structure NEVER and still doesn't allow for innovation because that violate the nature of their corporate structure which is money first. Many Apple "fan boy's" know this and yes, cheer on Apple because they are doing what most people think they would do if they could run a company --do it for love not just the for money.

[Renegade Knight]

@magichr3

Reverse that and your well known fact will be correct. When IBM entered the PC market, It moved the PC market forward and finaly let it live up to it's potential. At the time when IBM was looking for an OS for their new PC, MicroSoft jumped when others said "Meh".

You have the right idea about how comanies should work. For the love of what they do. When they do and at least pay attention to some business practices, the money follows. IBM wasn't about the PC, but they were about solving probelms and when the PC let them do that, that's how they moved the PC market forward.

[Nataku4ca]

@peco412

Great Comment, I share many similarities with you, except I dont have kids yet

competition is great, ppl should always maintain a good amount of neutral position to be able to make good decision, even though my mac experience were some what... dissapointing but im still willing to try em

[hotbbq]

Whew. You'd think with all the fan boys in here it wouldn't be filled with so much hot air. Were going to need a bigger interwebs.

[slapppy]

Ahahaha. Yeah right. Apple does this all the time.....right. How low of Microsoft to come up with something like this.

[puterhead]

The thing I take away from this is that there are a far greater number of gullable people than i would have believed prior to today. I mean people actually believing for a second that the phone call actually happened. They left out the part where the Apple employee begged, weeping on the other end of the phone, saying between fits of sobs that he feared that Apple would be out of business by year end due to the ads driving all their business away.

I am not even an apple fan, windows vista x64 all the way, and I say this smells like a steaming pile of poo. Some made up story to get some laughs when on stage.

Turner was quoted as saying it was "the greatest single phone call in the history that I've ever taken in business",

The imaginary Apple employee was later quoted as saying "the greatest single phone call in the history that I've ever taken in business was the call i got a few mondays ago saying that we sold over a million iPhones in one weekend and my stock portfolio just got a lot bigger"

[logicconsumer101]

Good point, that phone call never happened, or atleast not like that. It defies logic. But going back to gullible people. Have you noticed how the Iphone can't text pictures yet, cannot connect with another phone via bluetooth to share files. Nor can you move large media around via microSD. That's old technology, most free phones have all those capabilities. And this phone is considered the mother of all smart phones? That's skillful marketing for you and strategic censorship. Ever noticed how you still can't post or read customer reviews for the Iphone on the Wireless AT&T website?

[puterhead]

Oh I agree with you 100% on the iPhones lack of features. I use a Samsung Omnia myself and while it has some low points, it does things that I need it to do. for one its on Verizons network. offers visual voicemail, push email with my work exchange server and home pop email. MMS and IM, full web browser, wifi, MicroSD with 16gb of storage, 5mp camera with video recording, touch screen interface. GPS with navigation program. Audio and Video player. I've never found anything that i wanted to do on it that i couldn't.

[contentcreator--2008]

I have macs and some PCs --- I have to say the Mac ads are some of the most annoying on TV ever. They are just filled with lies and distortions, just loads of complete b/s, whether you like Apple's products or not. So the idea that Apple called to whine about M/S's ads is just hilarious.

If it was an election, Apple's are negative attack ads. Microsoft's aren't unbiased either but the tone is a bit better. I think whenever you have to spend time bashing the opposition, instead of touting your own features, you are showing your own weakness. Both parties are lamer for having to mention the other. Shut up about the other guy and show me what you can do.

[cloudmatt]

*falls to knees weeps with joy* you sir are a l337 among trolls.

[Im_not_Herbert]

Geez people...

Market share *should* be reversed. Apple should own the majority of the PC market, because most people want something that "just works". MS PC machines should be for people like me- people who like to tinker with the hardware and software, people who like to change the look and feel of their rig, people who can and do reinstall the OS after they have hosed it doing something stupid... in short, people who are not afraid of the technology, but love to get a little dirty with it.

BTW, is it just me, or do every one of these switcher stories about people having junk PC's going to Macs feature a Dell as the mentioned junk PC... get a clue, folks, stop buying Dells!

I have a PC I built myself, was running Vista flawlessly, now am running Win 7 RC and loving it. It, as you Macheads like to say, "just works". My Gateway laptop runs Vista and is the best (non custom built) PC I have ever owned. I do not own a Mac, can't afford one, and swapping out the bits inside is a thing I would miss if I were a Mac user, but I think they are cool machines and do find myself looking at the Mac mini a lot... and websites on how to upgrade them. :)

[jumpjetta]

Yeah, I think you nailed it. If people want to build their own PC and then tinker endlessly, get some generic parts and scrap together a Linux or pirated Windows XP machine. And continue tinkering so much you never really get any real work done because all the work done on the computer IS tinkering.

I always love the car analogies. The ones that tend to compare PCs to, oh, some generic econobox vehicle that, when some warning light comes on related to a burned out blinker, the car stops dead and you have to replace the engine.

Maybe your "car" is one that looks more like Mad Max roadster than anything, and constantly needs new frankenparts grafted onto it to give you a thrill.

No thanks. Me, I'll spend a few more bucks and get the gleaming, efficient, shiny, impeccably reliable and complete car.

[jumpjetta]

Dammit. Hit "return" too quickly.

Meant to add... "Me, I've just got places to go and no time for tinkering."

[Im_not_Herbert]

@ jumpjetta-

Yeah, Linux is OK, but I don't need pirated copies of Windows for my machines... don't know why you would assume otherwise. OEM copies of Windows cost less than OSX.

I am pointing out exactly those differences- you *should* have a Mac. Me, I *like* to tinker- and have the freedom to change any particular bit of my PC at any time if it suddenly displeases me in a any way. And I don't feel the need to denigrate people who prefer a different kind of ride. Reading all of these nasty posts back and forth makes me weep for the future of the human race.

[professionaladventurer]

What are they going to sell at the Microsoft stores? Boxes of software, that will be IMPRESSIVE.

[Rutan--2008]

And a few Multi button mice to us MacUsers fed up with the unreliable Mighty Mouse and earlier one button versions.

OH and all us Intel Mac owners in need of a copy of Vista/W7 for boot camp. (But which is best for me) the choices Home nah ! too cheap and no proper networking options, Home Premium (what's premium about aero,shared documents and dual monitor support?), Business (adds Remote access!) or Ulitmate and do i really need 64 bit for one game ?

[ChillyPhilly55]

Mr. Turner, don't flatter youself Apple doesn't care about Microsoft. The computer market is forever changing and Microsoft is to late!

It is quite obvious Apple have better things to worry about then Microsoft who is pretty much, out of ideas.

Get Real Turner.

[amitg1979]

Apple has better things to do? Oh you mean like suing a computer manufacturer for installing a MacOS on to a non-apple branded machine?

http://www.tuaw.com/2008/07/15/apple-sues-psystar-for-license-violations-copyright-infringemen/

How about this law suit?
http://pulse2.com/2008/10/07/apple-suing-educational-institution-over-logo/

Maybe you have not seen this where Apple is attempting to block NYC from using a green apple logo for their green earth campaign.
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/04/apple-sues-big-apple.php

As you can see Apple sues quite a bit. They will sue anyone and anything that remotely tries to do something.

[cmreyher]

@Kwasiowusu the only "call of duty" I need on my Mac is productivity and it's worth the premium price many times over. This illustrates our differing perspectives.

[craigar]

The people in the MS ads appear to be unknowledgeable about what they are buying! The salesmen in the ads remind me of all those Circuit City types who are more than happy to peddle their wares to anyone who believes "anything" they say. In contrast, Apple ads shows two knowledgeable guys (PC & MAC) and factual contrast of the reality of their respective products. The so-called price difference is a myth, especially if you extend all cost over the life of the computer. There really is a price difference... but not what you think.

[hellfirejack]

How do they "appear unknowledgeable"? You can tell what they know by just looking at them? Don't be ridiculous.

And BTW, those two "knowledgeable guys" in the Apple commercials are ACTORS who are told exactly what to say and do. Just because one is portly and nerdy and the other is skinny and nerdy doesn't mean they know one thing about computers. There is zero factual contrast. It's a one sided marketing argument.

[dredlew]

Look at the guys photo... now look again, and you're believing actually a word that comes out of this head? Right...

[jumpjetta]

Kevin Turner looks like he got his start in used car sales, where a B.S. anecdote like what he claims is probably an encouraged sales tactic.

[robertstinnett]

While I enjoy my iPod, I wouldn't have any qualms switching over to a Zune (perhaps Microsoft can have a Zune switch-over ad campaign). The problem with Apple has always been they try to act like they are "meant only for the priviledged". I'm sorry, but there is nothing on a Mac you can't get on a Windows system. In fact, I'd argue that it was the proliferation of cheap computers with Windows that really got the entire computer revolution going at the consumer level. If this was 1986 and the average household still had to pay what Apple wanted for a computer back then we'd all still be dialing into Compuserve and going to the library to use the one computer they have because nobody could afford the darn things.

When Apple pulls a stunt like this, just helps me support the Wintel world even more.

[allafter]

Beauty is in the eye of the checkbook holder so buy what looks good. What computer does Microsoft make? I use two operating systems, neither is Microsoft. Dell and HP offer Window-less OSs so where are those ads? Is Apple the only computer make that advertises on TV? With 80 > 90 % of the OS market, why does MS want it all?

[franklooper]

"Macs just work."

Well, so does my DIY PC that I've been modding and upgrading for years and years. No crashes. Reboot every couple of weeks when an app starts to act funny. What's the big deal?

[baconstang]

So do my Macs, without the modding and upgrading. What's the big deal?

[OS11]

Well, I doubt Apple said remove "all the ads", they likely said remove the ones that are in error... which they have legal grounds to do so via the FTC.

So Microsoft has little choice but remove about 3 of them since they say the wrong amount of Ram and wrong pricing now that Apple did a MacBook Pro update a month or so ago.

Now that Steve has returned, a single call will end this, so it's pretty much a none story since MS doesn't want to get tangled with the Feds again.

[hellfirejack]

They don't have to remove any of them at all actually.

They were correctly reporting prices at the time the commercials were made. Microsoft isn't making up the prices. Just because Apple changed something in the mean time doesn't require Microsoft to make retractions.

I'm also going to believe this call happened until Apple refutes the story. They'd comment if they didn't. Wouldn't you want to make the guy look like a tool if you had the chance?

[regulas1]

Gave my old G4 Powerbook to my sister and went Linux on a cheap Acer after removing Millennium II, aka Vista, I'm going back to Mac. The new Macbook Pro is on my Christmas list. OS X is much more pleasant to work with, looking forward to full 64 bit Snow Leopard and Open CL.
I think 7 will turn out good for Windows users though.

[ogman]

Hahahahaha! Wow, Microsft is really going off the deep end. The company's stockholders need to take a close look. The company is flailing about more than Balmer doing the "monkey-boy."