Comments on: Apple warns about unsupported players' iTunes integration

A support article appeared on Apple's site Tuesday warning about unsupported third-party digital media players.

[Vegaman_Dan]

So, anyone want to bet there will be a new iTunes update for... oh, 'system performance improvements' that 'accidentally' breaks this function for Palm Pre units? How long will it be before Palm and Apple will be engaged in the same sort of battle the IM services were doing with each other a few years ago?

[Dalkorian]

I doubt it ... but no, I wouldn't want to bet on it.
;-)

[LaTene_Man]

Good, I hope they do. It'd serve Palm right for trying to cash in on Apple's creation. Why doesn't Palm create their own music software, music service, music store, line of music players, etc., etc.? Because that'd be too hard and too expensive. They'd rather come in the fourth quarter and pick up some quick cash.

[darto]

Blackberry's desktop software allows you to sync with your itunes library as well.

[wcrowder]

This windows/apple feud is lots of fun to watch. Suse & Songbird +1.

[Paldasan]

This isn't a windows/apple feud, it isn't even a microsoft/apple feud. This is all about apple attempting to provide any customer of theirs (ipod/iphone/mac) with zero options outside of apple hardware.

[baconstang]

That's not Apple's job.

[Synthmeister]

Pre users are not Apple's problem. Apple is not preventing Palm from developing iTunes-like software and having Pre user's install it on their Macs, anymore than they are preventing people from installing Firefox or Chrome.

[LaTene_Man]

Ever notice how there really isn't one until certain people show up? Want a list? I'd post one of the Microtrolls I've noticed just over the past few days, but the editors would undoubtedly delete it.

[pbradleyii]

Apple uses it's software to sell the high margin hardware. And to provide a nice seamless experience to customers. It doesn't want to get dragged down supporting or maintaining compatibility with 3rd party products and software like Microsoft does. Apple doesn't even support it's own old stuff very long.

I don't think that is a bad thing. Personally, I like to move on to the new thing and leave the old behind. And to have a company that doesn't have to waste it's time making sure it is compatible with 20 year old applications, and can just spend the development dollars moving forward, is a good thing. It allows you to make a choice. If you want to get a program and run it for 20 years, go with Microsoft. If you are happy to always upgrade to the latest thing, and enjoy that, maybe Apple is the right choice for you.

It amazes me at how good Microsoft stuff is considering the commitment they make to supporting really old application software. And that is what their customers expect. Apple, not so much. A few people ***** and moan, but mostly everyone is happy to get the latest shiny version of everything.

And that is what the free market is all about - choices.

[themrwhite]

For all the boneheads, it's Apple's property they can do what they wish to with it. I don't see any Zune Market Place software for the Mac yet, do you? and the iPod can't sync with the MS store or any other stores for that matter. Pot meet Kettle. Just shut up already. I have said it before and I'll say until it stops, as soon as other companies can come up with an idea that isn't taken from Apple or riding on the coat tails of Apple those businesses will fail. And the Pre is just for people who don't like the iPhone, so it should do as well as the Zune and we all know how that turned out.

[Perry_Clease]

" I don't see any Zune Market Place software for the Mac yet, do you?"

There is no market, no need, for it on the Mac, little enough on a Pc.

[russellharrower]

At the end of the day, it is up to Apple if they support or do not support a 3rd party application. At the end of the day, if Palm wants to supply users with access to there music. They should apply to Apple to have access to there iTunes program LEGALLY! I am sure that Apple would say to Palm the following "Dear Palm, we thank you for asking our permission to use iTunes to allow your customers access to there music. However unless you are willing to pay us $1.5 Million per year we will NOT allow you access to the iTunes program. If you choose not to pay and still give users access to iTunes, well we will take legal action, as that is HACKING into our software..."

and the letter would continue.

[DrtyDogg]

Apple isn't known for it's generous licensing. As for "HACKING into" their software, it really isn't the way it works is that when you plug in your pre it asks you what you want to do, if you tap media sync it simply identifies itself as an iPod.

[Synthmeister]

Palm still has to take responsibility for the Pre user experience. Apple is not preventing them from creating Mac software for the Pre.

And BTW, years ago, Palm quit making sync software for Macs because the market wasn't important to them. Talk about bad karma.

[varase]

Apple writes and distributes iTunes to sell music, but mostly to support their iPod/iPhone products - Steve Jobs once said that it wasn't the music that kept iTunes in business, but rather the sale of their iPods.

That said, Apple tends to release new versions of iTunes spontaneously shortly before or shortly after the release of new iPods to support their new functionality - AFAIK they don't send out developer seeds because unlike MacOS X - this is their pond to play in.

I think that's all the technote meant: "We're going to continue to spontaneously release new versions, and no you're not going to get them ahead of time to test with and we frankly don't care if the new version somehow breaks your software. You're swimming in our pond and there are no lifeguards here who care about your kids."

[smil3e]

Yet another reason why I am not an Apple fan. I refuse to use iTunes anyway -- this just gives me another point for my argument when I have friends that try to sway me.

[Alanos Heero]

I...HATE...ITUNES! Do you know how annoying it is to spend two to three hours fixing music tags every time Itunes opens up. Where does Itunes get the idea that it can change the name of the artist that I am listening too. ONE..MORE...TIME...and Itunes is GONE from my computer FOREVER! Why would anyone want to use Itunes or WMP. They both suck. Palm should just use Windows Explorer or whatever it is called on a Mac. My MP3 player does and it opens up similar to a flash drive or sd card. If I had to have an interface into my music program it would be put into Foobar2000. As much music that I have, WMP can't handle it all. I also hate fan boys for Both MS and Apple. Use what you have and stop trying to convince me one is better than the other. I don't care if one can do this or the other can do that. I will use what I have and either make it work or get something else.

[nastynewt]

itunes/quicktime is a horrible piece of bloatware anyway. Why not download a non-proprietary mp3 from another store and skip the Orwellian controls? Keep drinking the Kool-Aid, my friends.

[varase]

Yes, terrible proprietary bloatware.

Anyone here know another name for the MPEG 5 file format?

[nickh2]

The tech behind the .mp3 format is owned and licensed by Fraunhofer and Thomson.
Apple do not sell music in the mp3 format, its AAC (mp4) an open standard with ISO/IEC accreditation.
The music files come from the music labels, not Apple.
Your argument has just been destroyed.

[podpalacz]

Apple knows how to use fact that lot of people talk about Pre to get some attention to themselves.
I say if you chose Pre over i phone it already says something and you shold not give rat's behind about aple's promises (these are no threats to me).

[Synthmeister]

Problem is, Palm was the one developing and touting the Pre's iTunes compatibility. Not Apple. Apple won't even mention Palm's name in all of these discussions.

[podpalacz]

does it have to mention it? children know that media will do it for them.. everyone seems to interpret Apple's words like they were bible verses..

[sparrowhyperion]

I swear... Companies today remind me of the winey kids I knew when I was little. The ones who got all upset if they didn't get to have the little car when playing monopoly, and took their game home out of spite. Apple is just as bad as MS. Both of them should stop trying to hobble the other and start working towards interoperability. I have a Zune 120GB player by MS. The reasons I went with it are numerous but include the fact that I don't like Apple's "Play it our way or don't play at all" approach to business. Not to say that MS is perfect. I absolutely detest the DRM system the Zune software uses. It would have been better if they had just made it compatible with Media Player. But Apple actively tries to mess up other players so you have to use their overpriced and highly overrated Ipod if you want to access their store. And they complain about not making enough money. I doubt they bothered to stop and think of how many more users they would acquire if they opened Itunes up to the real world.

[Dalkorian]

Look up "plays for sure" and try that argument again. Apple never gave iTunes/iPod/iPhone users the middle finger, yet M$ did that to their customers. I guess you just like bondage and slavery.

[DrtyDogg]

@Dalkorian: Look up "You don't know what you are talking about" and try that statement again. Microsoft is still issuing keys for MSN Music purchases.

[randygrenier]

It's too bad people have invested so much in buying music from iTunes. Now they're restricted to Apple's proprietary stuff to play any music they've bought.

Fortunate are those who have the wisdom to buy straight MP3 files without DRM. MP3's can be bought from Amazon, Rhapsody, eMusic, mp3.com and others. They play on any device from any manufacturer. They can be played with any music player software. They can be copied easily between computers and portable devices as well as burned to CD's. Freedom from long-term mortgage to Apple.

[nickh2]

The tech behind the .mp3 format is owned and licensed by Fraunhofer and Thomson.
Apple do not sell music in the mp3 format, its AAC (mp4) an open standard with ISO/IEC accreditation.
The music files come from the music labels, not Apple.
Your argument has also been destroyed.

[kalpana168]

nickh2 - the argument that you've destroyed was not the argument that randygrenier was trying to argue.

Can music files downloaded from iTunes be played in any music player software from any manufacturer?

[Dalkorian]

With the caveat that the music player would obviously have to support the open AAC format, or the file would have to be converted to mp3, of course they would play in any player. We're ignoring the "fair play" DRM issue because 1) it was imposed on Apple by the music companies and 2) it's being (been?) phased out for non-DRM tracks.

It's amazing the stink on the FUD and bull that M$ apologists like to bathe in.

[kalpana168]

Looking at all the comments here, "It's amazing the stink on the FUD and bull that APPLE apologists like to bathe in." is just as valid. Whether one is an Apple apologist or a M$ apologist, they're all apologists.... just on different sides of the same coin.

LOL, can we all just get along?!?

[Alanos Heero]

Well I didn't think that comment sounded like ms apologetics since the sources mentioned are anything but ms. My MP3 player doesn't play AAC and I would rather not downgrade the quality of my music when converting to Mp3. Remember that Apple commercial where the Apple guy even gives PC a complement. If everybody stops choosing sides and forgetting their own faults while forgetting the other side's upsides. This place is reeking with fanboy double standards.

[emjay06]

Ok, so if I have a Palm pre (I won't buy an Iphone because I don't like ATT) and have an Ipod touch, why would apple hurt their customers who uses an ipod touch who like to sync both their palm pre and touch with one music liberary? just another example of the crap consumer have to take from big companies.

[Synthmeister]

Or why doesn't Palm develop software which would support your Pre and and Apple's iPod touch.

See, that's just as ridiculous as what you are suggesting.

Steve Jobs learned this lesson while he was away from Apple. Don't let any strategic part of your user experience (software, hardware or OS) be controlled by someone else. Too bad J. Rubenstein didn't take this lesson with him when he left Apple.

[DrtyDogg]

@Sunthmeister: Palm isn't in the desktop software business, and I'm sure Apple would be opposed to the iPod touch syncing with another program.

[xngk]

This is why you need to avoid apple like the plague. They just want ti to be the least convenient thing to leave them, so you need to do what they say. It's like trying to break up with a crazy girlfriend who has a lot of your stuff.

[Synthmeister]

Unfortunately, Palm is the one who started the relationship with the crazy girlfriend, giving said girlfriend the keys to their Porsche and then complaining when said girlfriend threatens to drive the car off of a cliff with their favorite pet in the back seat.

Me, I keep my stuff away from crazy girlfriends.

[abnormallyendowed]

I think it is interesting the polorization about these types of stories it all boils down to alot of free advertising for both palm and apple
i personally dont use apples software as there are many options availible but you gotta wonder what someone needs with this itunes ability in reguards to a PHONE anyway face it your car has a radio ,cd or even interacts with a media player the office and home have computers and audio devices specificly designed to play music almost anywhere you go there is an alternative
so i guess someone needs to listen to quiet riot while they talk to their mother-in-law that would seem to be the only real value for this "service" that i can come up with
so to be fair Microsoft sucks and so does apple seems mute to me

I tried the MAC operating system and I have an iPhone. I agree that Apple maintains a tight control of their products. They are indeed control freaks. You must Jailbreak an iPhone to take back any control of it. I guess you can get around the restrictive Leopard operating system but I found no way to maintain any control of files or disk management as I am used to in Windows. I believe that Apple Users, like most computer users, are unsophisticated and have no need to delve deeper into a computer. The simplicity of the operating system is what they need, crave and boast about. They couldn't tweak the system even if they wanted to, but instead place complete trust in Apple to make everything ok. Frankly, Linux has become more appealing to me precisely because I have even more control of it than Windows. I guess that it is a completely different mindset and paradigm. As I implied, the vast majority of computer users have a sheep mentality and this seems to be the way of Apple in toto. Of course this is just my opinion and I may be wrong.

[nickh2]

"I found no way to maintain any control of files or disk management..."

It's called the Finder. Click either the hard drive icon on the desktop or the Finder icon in the Dock.

Lol, the finder is not a disk management tool. It is a search mechanism for only a handful of file types. I'm sorry but I suspect you have no idea what I am talking about. Apple keeps everything simple and cubbyholed. It is an excellent operating system for a casual user as it is foolproof. I was able to crash a MAC at my son's school once. I crash Windows on many occasions when I mess with the Task Manager or when manipulating memory when I write computer programs. I don't mind this as it is a side effect of taking control of things. I guess that my needs are not typical of "most users" so please don't take offense. This is the reason I have decided against MAC.

[kelmon]

If Palm was smart then they'd enter into an official agreement with Apple so that the Pre and other Palm devices are officially supported by iTunes rather than this ridiculous situation whereby a change to iTunes can potentially break the Pre's ability to interface with it. All that is going to happen is that the companies will both blame each other and it is the customer that gets to suffer.

"Hacking" compatibility with iTunes is one of the dumbest ideas that I have heard of, particularly for a device that Palm is betting the company on. If you are going to do something then do it properly.

[DrtyDogg]

If you have an in at Apple that would listen to such an idea, I'd bet they'd pay you for it. Apple isn't known for it's generous licensing.

[gmailjay]

Let's see if I understand this with an analogy.

You first trespass on my property, then pick the lock to the door of my home, move in, and then you tell me you have a "right" to do it?

Well, I suppose in the country that tolerates illegal aliens, who demand medical services and schools for their children, people who shouldn't be here in the first place, it is easy to see that what Palm is doing makes sense.

[clamburgler]

your analogy = FAIL

sorry, try again

[Comnauts]

Tsk Tsk Apple, scared the other <a href="http://www.comnauts.com/collections/mp3-players">Mp3 Players</a> in the market are catching on?