Comments on: Apple's Safari 4 tops 11 million downloads in 3 days

After releasing the latest version of its browser at this week's WWDC, Apple says it took just three days to mark 11 million downloads.

[cary1]

I downloaded it 2 days ago and I am liking it. My only gripe is that Google toolbar is not available for Safari. I use google toolbar for custom searches and for bookmarks.

I really like the developer features of Safari... very easy to use

[DMAN3k]

I don't know why no one has been testing Safari vs. Opera.

Fanbois...

[kcotham]

The speed tests were done against Opera, the one I saw anyway. Perhaps because Opera has such a small user base? Interesting question though.

[jabberwolf]

Speed tests by Apple for an Apple product?
What did you expect?
Apple flat out lies at times, or at best tells the partial truth.

Needless to say, most independent tests show that Safari isnt as fast compared to others as they say they are.
Opera probably faster, and Chrome definitely faster.

[kcotham]

Apple has never lied. Their advertising agency, by extension might exaggerate, but all companies and ad agencies do the same thing, not surprising. The tests they did however, are repeatable and I've found them to be somewhat true while I did a very unscientific survey on my own machines. So, in short, they didn't lie. Plus, there are some third party tests out there that are showing a similar story as the Apple tests. Put that in your pipe and smoke it jabberwolf.

[ikramerica--2008]

I suggest you try it.

It's very rare that a piece of software actually lives up to the claims, but Safari 4 is "that fast." It's shockingly, amazingly fast. So fast that you can immediately tell when you use a program with Safari 3 still installed, not just by the slight visual cues.

Safari 4 is so fast (on an Intel Mac) that it's like opening a file hosted on your computer, not a webpage.

[baconstang]

Installed it a couple of hours ago, and yup, it's that fast. Does the acid3 test just fine too. Safari 3 didn't.

[Mark_Anderson]

Firefox is still faster on my Mac and the extensions are better.

I installed Safari to get rid of the annoying bouncing blue update beachball. I wonder how many Windows users installed Safari as part of an iTunes update?

[MaarekStele]

big whoop, Mozilla holds the world record of over 8million downloads in 24hours.

[sciontcya]

Yeah, and 7 million stopped using it the next day.
Tool

[shellcodes_coder]

sciontcya: I agree with you

[keith.r.benedict]

I downloaded it. It crashes instantly on Windows 2008 Server R2 RC1. So it's back to Chrome for me.

[kcotham]

Try resetting Safari first. Actually, to be sure of good results, restart the machine AND reset Safari. I've had no problems whatsoever on XP, Tiger, and Leopard.

[ikramerica--2008]

You may have a conflicting plugin. I couldn't get Youtube to open, but reinstalled Flash Player and now it does.

Such is life with a new version of a software product. I'm actually surprised so many of my plug-ins including the adblocker work without updates/reinstalling.

[ArsFragica]

11 million downloads is impressive. I'll stick with the best browser, IMO, Opera.

[myles taylor]

Well, given that everyone who ran Software Update on a Mac and anyone who ran it on Windows probably got it downloaded, then that would account for a lot of them. Unless they are only counting direct downloads. In which case I agree that it's impressive.

[alegr]

This must be an error. We all know that evil monopolist Microsoft doesn't let anybody to use a competitor's browser. This is why Opera has so little marketshare. And EC says so.

[Magallanes]

6 million is a petty percentage of windows user.

[jabberwolf]

For those that dont it... alegr is being sarcastic.
That this again proves MS doesnt make a user chose one browser over another.

[kcotham]

jabberwolf, no, not as such, but they've made certain parts of the update system that only work with IE. They, up until Windows 7, made it to where you couldn't uninstall IE without messing up the system. And the only reason they did that was because the EU pressured them into it. They aren't innocent, not by a long shot.

[forever4now]

People have to actively seek out Firefox, Chrome, Safari, Opera, etc. & install them. IE has the advantage that it is always there...no seeking & installing required...on 90% of desktops. I suspect that is a key aspect of the EC's issue.

[whocares79]

Microsoft is so evil that they let you use google and yahoo as your default search engine. Even Chrome lets you use Bing as the de facto search.

However, Apple the perfectly innocent company doesn't let you use bing as your default search engine.

[kris240376]

How many of these 11 million people were prompted to update due to the Apple updater? How many users clicked OK when the updater said something was out of date just to make the window go away?

I understand counting the number of times people download FireFox or Opera because people have to actually navigate to a website and download it.

I'm not knocking Safari, but this is a little like counting how many people downloaded the latest version of Internet Explorer.

[ckh1272]

kris240376: I see what you are talking about, but how is different form other browsers. Mozilla does that too with their updates and half the time it installs updates when you open the browser, without warning.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Safari gets installed by default if you update any Apple product. You have to really keep on the ball to uncheck it each time the updater runs or you'll get it anyways.

Now how many of those downloads are of actual installations that are being used?

Recall that people were installing Firefox on servers and other headless units in order to boost numbers in a meaningless manner.

The real number would be how many installations are actually in *use* six months from now.

[kris240376]

ckh1272: The difference is that I only get a prompt to update FireFox whenever I start FireFox. The first time I was prompted to install Safari was when I started iTunes. That's a major difference. I eventually clicked OK to this update because I'm tired of seeing the warning. But I don't use it and I would never go out of my way to find it and download it. I just wanted the warnings to go away.

[ikramerica--2008]

no it doesn't, vegaman get installed "automatically." You have to say yes to it. Automatically means you have no say.

It does not work like "automatic updates" on windows, which do get installed automatically. stop spreading FUD.

[kris240376]

Actually Vegaman_Dan is not too far off the mark.

When Apple first introduced Safari the Apple Updater would list Safari as an update that should be installed. I say should because it was selected by default whenever the Apple Updater listed applications that needed its attention. They have since changed this behavior and it is now listed as an optional piece of software that the user has to select in order to have it installed. How many people went back and uninstalled Safari after this change is unknown. I know I didn't uninstall Safari because Apple Updater would eventually pop up and report that Safari was out of date. I eventually got tired of the warnings and installed it to have the warnings stop. This is the old behavior, and has since changed.

I suspect that Vegaman_Dan hasn't uninstalled Safari for fear of angering the Apple Software Updater and having it show that Safari needs to be updated. He wouldn't be alone in this boat as Safari has been on my computer since it first came out due to the updaters persistence in it being present on my system.

I'm not opposed to software bundling. If iTunes required Safari in order to do whatever it is it does online then I'm fine. But using iTunes as a vehicle to push another browser onto people smacks a little of some of the tactics that Microsoft has employed in the past. And I think we all can agree that this tactic is a little low.

[Seaspray0]

"The real number would be how many installations are actually in *use* six months from now."

I agree. History has already shown that the number of browser downloads is not preportional to actual use. I won't mention the browser in question.

[ewelch]

Every time I open Firefox its telling me about a new version that I should update to. Your argument is a straw man. It's just as likely people update when it becomes available and they are reminded. Since there are 150 million copies installed out there, I'd say 8 million in 24 hours is not a surprising thing and must indicate it's not always being used on a daily basis by manny of its users.

Not that I'm complaining. It's good to be reminded of new versions coming out. But I suppose it's because I dislike Firefox that makes it seemingly want to update itself every time I fire it up for some reason.

[The_happy_switcher]

4 is much better than 3 on my Mac. This is big improvement. I'm using it at work too on XP and works well so far.

[shellcodes_coder]

dude if you've got important documents in your computer then you might want to uninstall it cause as usual am sure it can be easily exploited. Even 'Nils' who managed to exploit safari, IE and firefox chose to exploit firefox in OS X rather than Windows because it was much easier to exploit in OS X than on 7

[ckh1272]

To shellcodes_coder: You just really have nothing better to do, do you??

[Vegaman_Dan]

I am responsible for at least eight downloads that I can think of right off the top of my head. Eight systems that have Quicktime installed that autoupdated Safari4 without my request or knowledge. I really need to uncheck that autoupdate option for Apple as it keeps causing this sort of problem.

I know you can uncheck it, and I do, but any time you even manually update something like Quicktime, it resets all the preferences to auto update instead.

So of those eight installations, how many do I use?

None. I've already started the uinstallation of them as i prefer to use Firefox and Chrome.

[The_happy_switcher]

I think you could have made your posting about 90 percent shorter. An example could have been: 'I prefer Firefox. '

[Vegaman_Dan]

Ah, but that wouldn't point out the illusion of the Safari userbase being as large as it is. If I downloaded eight copies without my knowledge and then never used it, how does that skew the numbers when you expand it across the entire download totals? How many of those installations are idle/unwanted?

That's the point I was trying to make.

[michael_j_x]

I think his point was that most of those hits are due to the autoupdate that comes with Quicktime

[jabberwolf]

For "The_happy_switcher "
I prefer Firefox. :)

And I think this is an absolutely good point , showing that Apple (once again) depends on propaganda rather than reality.

[divergex]

Strange, for me Safari 4 shows up in Apple Software Update, but it is *not* checked by default.

[kcotham]

@Vega, the same way it skews the numbers of IE users. It's the defacto default on all those millions of Windows computers out there. And what about all the people that downloaded Firefox or Opera or Chrome and tried it a few times and then never used it again? Your point is? The number of downloads means nothing really.

[kris240376]

divergx: The behavior that Vegaman is describing used to be the default behavior. It's since changed; when I don't know. But I have Safari on my machine to keep the updater from repeated telling me that something I didn't want on my computer was out of date.

Vegaman: You should be able to uninstall it and it will no longer have it selected by default. I just did this today.

[Seaspray0]

@The happy switcher.

I prefer.

[Seaspray0]

@kcotham. "the same way it skews the numbers of IE users... ...The number of downloads means nothing really."

I agree. Download counts can't be trusted. So why is apple making a big deal about it?

[kcotham]

@Seaspray

They're making not making any bigger a deal out of it than anyone does of their respective new software. CNET seems to be the one "making a big deal out of it." I saw nothing on apple.com touting 11 million downloads in 3 days. But even if they did state it, take it at face value and move on.

[MarkHGordon]

B.F.D. It was pushed out to Mac Users as an auto-download. By contrast, Firefox's newest auto-download must have been big news as well, eh?

Come on people. Start reporting some real freaking news. This is getting to be very disappointing.

[kcotham]

"B.F.D.", Mark? For what pray-tell does that stand?

[Michichael]

Kcotham: Big F___ing Deal

[kcotham]

No wonder I didn't get that.

[ikramerica--2008]

it ONLY runs on 10.5.7 and 10.4.11. Many, many, many mac users are not on those two versions for various reasons.

Further it is not "pushed" to users. It is given as an option and you can say no.

Also, many people have "check for updates WEEKLY" enabled, so many people would NOT have even seen this as an option yet, if their week starts Friday, Saturday, Sunday or even Monday.

I love when Apple haters post things about OS X that are wrong, because it proves they don't know what they are talking about.

[EarthMatters]

Mostly because of Apple Updater is my guess, not so much because of pent-up demand.

[shellcodes_coder]

yup am sure. Why would Windows users want that crap from CrApple?

[kcotham]

Because it's faster than anything from Microsoft, troll.

[ewelch]

Wrong. Many people downloaded it before it was presented to them in auto update. In fact, I put it on three machines before it became available on auto update.

And the pent up demand was there for good reasons. It's faster. There was a public beta for months.

Whoops there goes your ill-informed theory.

It was important to many of us because the beta broke Adobe Extension Manager. It was a big topic on Adobe's forums while we tried to figure out why Extension Manager had stopped working.

[Michichael]

I think the numbers are a little inflated. Are the counting the ones forced with their quicktime updates as "downloaded"? Because I didn't...

[The_happy_switcher]

Yes, it's an Apple conspiracy to inflate the numbers-- /s

[Brian]

Apple is becoming more popular than Microsoft these days.

Nice!

[shellcodes_coder]

ya they are...in making more crappy software and lying to customers with fake ads LOL

[shellcodes_coder]

oh yeah..how can anyone forget that hacking contest? it was crowned twice in the first place for getting hacked EASILY

[ewelch]

?shellcodes_coder

Pathetic troll.

[atomicbomb156]

I like Safari. Its a nice clean browser. Not as clean as Chrome though, which is my default browser. I have had all the major browsers on my computer for the sake of testing them. Chrome and Safari sit on top with Firefox lagging behind. Internet Explorer sucks in general. And Opera just doesn't like me. But in all seriousness have try out both Safari and Chrome. Its an orange to orange comparison since the 2 are very similar.

[whizkid454]

And then within those 72 hours, there were approx. 9 million uninstalls.

[The_happy_switcher]

At least we have the option too, unlike IE which clings to the Windows OS like the creature from Alien.
http://www.solarnavigator.net/films_movies_actors/film_images/alien_kane_with_creature_attached_helmet_john_hurt.jpg

[pianom4n]

Maybe not uninstalls, but definitely a good number of installs, play around a bit, and forget about it. I have the main five browsers on my machine always update to the newest version, but I only actively use one (firefox). The other ones i use for special tasks (like being logged into 2 google accounts at the same time.

I don't think this is like when Firefox 3 came out, where probably 90% (my own guess) of the people who downloaded it actually use it. Most Mac Firefox users probably updated it, but it doesn't mean it is going to get used.

[ikramerica--2008]

Have you used it?

It's freaking fast. Every website I use works with it. Not sure why I'd uninstall it.

[ewelch]

Typical Windows and LInux fanboy Mac hater response.

Not facts, not even hints, whatsoever, but they make up wild-ass nonsense because it makes them feel good about using their operating systems because OS X makes them feel inadequate for some unfathomable reason.

[trhoads82]

I would like to know how many of the downloads were people going to get the download or were part of other software updates, like itunes. I had to unselect it because it was being pushed to me, bundled with itunes.

[hellytar]

I do now see any option is Safari to install new search providers. The only available are Yahoo and Google. Nice job to promote competition!

[lvcsslacker]

Hmm... reminds me vaguely of Real Player back pre-2000.

ahhh... wonderful parasite of a media player that would ignore what you did with its settings to propigate it's own crap.

[ikramerica--2008]

how is this happening, exactly? any evidence, or just posting crap?

[GDEsplin]

Safari 4 is pretty awesome, defiantly better than firefox and IE 8, It probably is better than chrome, mostly because chrome is still in beta.

[therobot]

how is it on resources on an XP machine? I have Chrome installed at home on a older machine (2.0 ghz, 512mb) at home that my roommate uses because it's easy on resources.

[shellcodes_coder]

lol, it's better just because it's fast? give me a break.

[kcotham]

It's faster and it's 100% compliant with standards. Shellcodes, find something better to do with your time. Trolling doesn't become you.

[pedrosantosjr]

Nope, it is not better than Chrome, at least on a Windows PC. Safari eats up much more resources and is not faster than Chrome, based on my experience. And Chrome is no longer in beta.

[whocares79]

On a Windows 7 machine it uses about 20k more of memory and 2 - 3% more of the CPU than IE8 when both are opened to the exact same webpage (this webpage). Well, Safari is the only one that is being shown to be utilizing the CPU while all the other applications that I have open and running are registering 0 with the exception of task manager.