Comments on: Apple plots course for middle of mobile

For years, the PC industry has longed to make a compelling device that's bigger than a phone but smaller than a notebook. They have failed. Can Apple pull it off?

[monkeyfun14]

Anyone else remember Steve Jobs pretty much saying a touchscreen type computer was stupid?

Why the change of heart?

[jaw762]

He also once said they weren't interested in the smart phone market or that video on an ipod would never happen because people didn't want it on such a small screen. Jobs has a history of denying a product right up until it is released.

[AppleProLeo]

It all part of the game, he,/they do that all the time - where have you been?

Second of all he didn't actually say it was stupid - he said something along the lines of, "We don't know how to make a $400 notebook that isn't a piece of (rap - and we don't make (rap"

[Angmarr]

@ Steve jobs "We don't know how to make a $400 notebook that isn't a piece of (rap"

guess he should pay more attention to the netbook industry, and what middle income college students really want/ afford!

[Maccess]

Somehow this Apple concept reminds me of the Nokia Internet Tablet--we all know how well that's doing. Never heard of it? Wel, its, umm, errh, something like a device between a phone and a notebook, and it doesn't have a keyboard.

Get with it Apple, just make a Netbook. Dual core Atom would be nice, since the other Netbook processors can't touch dual cores with a ten foot pole, otherwise they'd have to ship it with Vista and compete with the CoreDuo Notebooks.

[ikramerica--2008]

He doesn't tip his hat when a product is in development, but is pretty prescient about things "far into the future" as can be seen from this 1985 interview.

http://www.playboy.com/articles/playboy-interview-steven-jobs/index.html

[Voice_Of_Logic]

You never experienced a head-fake?

[technewsjunkie]

In their current incarnation.
He's right, most are clunky.

[rainsft]

I would have a hard time paying $700 for a device that (in my opinion) fits into the netbook category, even with the app store advantages. Also would not want to be tied to a wireless carrier data contract. However, I would run right out and buy one if it fell into the $400-500 price range.

[Maclover1]

Sony P series is really nice and its $900

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&categoryId=8198552921644608896&XID=O:sony%20p%20series:dg_nb_gglsrch

Nice but it runs Vista on a 1.3ghz single core CPU....no thanks.

[drhamad]

That's fairly unrealistic. Even an iPhone costs more than that without a contract.

[rainsft]

I think we're looking at a larger iPod Touch here, not an iPhone, in which case the price is more consistent with the idea of merely adding a bigger display. A 16gb Touch can be had for $200-300. So, $400-500 would be more realistic to me for merely increasing the size of the screen. But, I'm sure that it would originally go for the larger amount of money just to take advantage of the "got to have it at any cost" types.

[Zaunto]

I'm with you on that. I didn't pay $700 for my Compaq Desktop and it does everything I need and want it to do at $399 two years ago. My Acer Aspire 5315 laptop that I paid $389 for last year does everything I need it to do and then some. I wasn't going to pay $599 for an iPhone (or any other Smartphone, for that matter). I sure as heck am not paying $700 for a device without a keyboard when my Palm Centro Smartphone has one.

[JCPayne]

Sony had the Sony Clie UX50. That was a good size... It was powered by Palm. But now it is WAY out of date...

It had Bluetooth, WiFI touch-screen... PC sync software, video camera, SMS text messaging (via a cellphone's blue tooth connection), microphone etc... But Sony discontinued it... It used to be like $699 and certainly could be worth ~ $300 or so still on the market if Sony updated the software and added new things that have since come-out in the last 5-6 years. E.g. update the Openware browser to Opera or something... (Yes Opera has a version of software for it but it is kind of tricky to put new software on it.) It can hold I( think) upto 4 GB removable flash disks...

[JCPayne]

Ohhh this was the Sony Clie UX50..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_CLIÉ_PEG-UX50

[sting7k]

Still don't get why you would pay even $500 for the "iPad" when you could just get an iPhone. The iPhone is the device they have been waiting for, something bigger will just be a big iPhone. And it would be worse because it won't fit in your pocket.

[Maclover1]

Kindles sell well.

[drhamad]

It'll be a niche product, no question. But for people that travel a lot, it's more functional than an iPhone while being smaller, lighter and cheaper than a MacBook Air.

Of course, this is all theory at this point.

[Aaron Kempf]

I don't think that every computer in the whole wide world _NEEDS_ to fit in your pocket

[Mark_Anderson]

I'm not sure Steve Jobs has had a change of heart because:

a) This idea is stupid.
b) No, really. It is.

Then again they did release that utterly stupid Shuffle update so you never know.

[Perry_Clease]

"by Mark_Anderson April 29, 2009 5:01 AM PDT
I'm not sure Steve Jobs has had a change of heart because:

a) This idea is stupid.
b) No, really. It is.

Then again they did release that utterly stupid Shuffle update so you never know."

Do you have one of the new Shuffles? Have you tried one?

[rapier1]

Actually, I can tell you for a fact that this iPad thing is coming. I personally don't see the value but that's just me.

[Seaspray0]

@rapier1. If it comes, then it comes. I'll be objective about it and give a fair comparison. I'll be looking at several things... price, multitasking, speed, storage, functionality, compatibility... I'll use a well know phrase to help, "does the device meet or exceed the customers requirements." (If you've ever done ISO, you'll have heard something similar). I'll make a distinction between what I want and what I need (surprisingly, alot of people buy things they really don't need, even I'm not immune to buying wants). If you do that, you won't end up filling your house with ginsu knives, food choppers, or other slice it and dice it gadgets.

[rapier1]

Well, that's pretty much what I'm saying. I know what my needs are and I don't see anything like this filling any of those needs. Then again, I sit in front of a computer for 10 hours a day and I don't want to be any more connected than I already am. Some people want that though. I don't so I don't see any value to an offering like this for me.

[myles taylor]

Mark, while I agree that the new Shuffle isn't ideal for me and other tech-savvy people, it seems to be popular. (shrugs) I don't think Apple is going for approval so much as popularity.

How is it stupid? You didn't give any reasons and the article listed a bunch of reasons why it's not stupid.

[Mark_Anderson]

Yes I've tried the Shuffle. It's a stupid product because of the dependency on proprietary headphones, dongles or adjusted third party sets which means that we gym monkeys who have actually spent money on decent headphones - because the ones supplied are the usual sub-standard Apple crap - are shafted.

Engadget did a survey on the best mp3 player for working out with. 90% of the readers went for the Sansa Clip - which you'll note CNET also put well ahead of the Shuffle too - of which I was one.

So, yes, it's a stupid, badly thought out product.

[itsmenyc]

As a "gym monkey" you might want to exercise your body less and your brain more.

Having another product rated higher than yours does not make it stupid (especially when people such as you were voting).

Given time, people will forget all the stupid comments they made about it including that about the proprietary headphones when it is common knowledge that 3rd party manufacturers are coming out with new headphones. I have the apple $80 and they are great.

So yes, your comment was stupid and badly thought out.

[d3vildog69]

Watch what you say dude, just cause he is a Gym Monkey doesn't mean he is an idiot. Personal attacks are as low as you can go over an MP3 Player

[Mark_Anderson]

@itsmenyc

Actually my brain works fine which is why when a gadget site that is typically 50/50 for or against Apple products switches to 90/10 against it's probably a good indication that the product hasn't really hit the mark which, if we're being honest, a blind monkey could have noticed especially when the readership then overwhelmingly endorse a competing product.

But, hey, if you think that paying another $39 for a dongle to use an $80 product is a great idea then more power to you.

[mjkphoto]

Anyone remember the Apple Newton? A much maligned mobile minitablet ahead of its time. I have one. It still works, even though the screen is fading.

The Newton 2000 was a great device. It had a fast processor, attachable keyboard, handwriting to text feature that was nearly perfect (nearly), lots of great applications, connectivity to a Mac and PC, a decent size (this was one of the biggest complaints against the Newton - too large and heavy), and you could connect to the internet and email (as well as infra-red data transfer to a IR capable printer). If I could easily use my Newton with my MacBook Pro, I'd still be using it today!

I'd love to see it return in a slightly smaller size (not too much smaller), with a color screen, wireless capability, attachable keyboard, and the ability to run Mac applications. With today's technology, I bet Apple could get it down to a size/weight similar to the Amazon Kindle.

I have an iTouch, which is great, but I'd enjoy something slightly larger with an attachable keyboard (like the Targus Stowaway I used with my Handspring Edge).

By the way, is anyone working on an attachable keyboard for the iPhone/iTouch? The Targus Stowaway was Great!

[Seaspray0]

The earlier model palms had the detachable keyboard accessory (one of many accessories). What you ended up with was a neat little device surrounded by a bag full of accessories. Be careful of what you wish for.

[RobertFHarwood]

I remember the Newton. It is sitting in a drawer in my desk. I use it for my diabetes. Dr. John Sanders of the National Instltues of Health came out with great software for managing diabetes. Software that I have never found better. The handwriting recognization was perfect for me.

As far as a keyboard, why not a bluetooth keyboard? Install the profile on the computer and any bluetooth keyboard should work. It keeps the system sealed up well, which is important for the life of it.

I personaly would find it justice if such a machine came out during Steve Jobs's tenure. One of the first things he did when came back was killing off the Newton. If the Newton was brought back, even if it doesn;t have the name, would be revenenge for the people who lost their passion and jobs, because Jobs didn't want Sculley's pet project around.

[Seaspray0]

An updated newton? <frown> It's your wish, not mine.

[biggstuu]

@rainsft - so you want all the technology in the world, but want it for the price of a Blackberry?

[rainsft]

Yes

[Super2online]

Why shouldn't he? He can get it now with a netbook for less than $300 that are flying off the shelves by the thousands. $700 for a mid size iPhone? I don't think so.

[myles taylor]

The netbook market is really terrible. The margins are so low that the companies don't make much money and it's one of those things were cheaper isn't better. Pony up the extra money and get a real computer!

[Angmarr]

@ myles taylor

actually netbooks are amazing for college students. Cheap/ Has basic browsing/word processing capacity + you can buy a desktop on the side and the price comes to pretty much the same as buying a laptop! (except its better cus the Netbook is mobile friendly & the desktop can cave more power!)

[Seaspray0]

@miles taylor. "the netbook market is really terrible." Then get another brand. For everyone else, it's booming! "the margins are so low that companies don't make much money". That's a good thing for consumers. It means they get more bang for the buck. "Pony up the extra money..." What extra money? Who has extra money these days?

[myles taylor]

@ Angmarr I will give you that point; if you own a desktop as well a netbook might make sense for the consumer. It doesn't make business for the people making them though and I think their popularity will die out soon. It's just a phase that will go away when the economy improves.

[myles taylor]

@Seaspray0 Why do people write my name as Miles when it's clearly Myles. I never get that.

When I said the market was "terrible" I meant it was terrible in that it was bad for the overall market.
Lower margins aren't necessarily better for the consumer. Lower margins mean less money for the manufacturers, the companies, and the resellers just to name a few. Companies don't make as much money, their employees don't make as much. Employees make less and consumers have less money to spend. In order to develop new products there has to be high margins somewhere. Companies have to make money unless they are non-profit. They aren't out there to give everyone the cheapest products; they are out there to make money.

You end up spending more money in the long run by buying stripped down devices. The trend needs to go towards consolidating devices, not stripping them. So you buy a netbook today and you you'll need another computer in a year. If you're buying a netbook you have some extra money. (shrugs) That's totally subjective.

[Seaspray0]

@myles. excuse my misstyping your name. sorry. As for the profit margins on netbooks, that's decided by the OEMs when they set their prices. And I wouln't be so sure the netbook you buy today will be obsolete in a year. My toaster still makes toast and my "plain jane" truck still gets me from point A to point B (note: plain jane referes to a vehicle thats been stripped down to the basics). As long as something meets your needs, it's not obsolete. That will hold true for netbooks as well.

[ashuva]

The next new device Apple comes out with has to be a netbook (with a keyboard) or it will fail when compared with the netbook market and the iPhone market. The reason MIDs failed was because they are too expensive and don't fulfill a specific need. People need (at least relatively speaking) cell phones and when people go to make their purchasing decisions they want the coolest thing out there - that's why the the iPhone is really successful. All gadgets are essentially successful for the same reasons and if Apple produces a device as described above it will not be different enough or cheap enough for it repeat the success of netbooks or the iPhone. Take me for example. I'm a long time Windows user (not because I believed it to be better, just because that is what dominates the market) and I bought an iPhone (my first Apple product) about 3 months ago. I love the thing so much that I am going to buy a MBP (first) and a Dell Mini 9 to hackintosh - and I've never even used OS/X, although I'm very familiar with various Linux distros and Windows of course. Anyway, just my 2c.

[winstein]

I don't like the iPad name. I like iNewton name much better.

[myles taylor]

That wasn't what Apple called it and I doubt they'll use something as cheesy as iPad. I agree with you that the name is terrible.

[MadLyb]

I think this segment is still a weak goal at best, because you cross a boundary in portability, but with little improvement in functionality.

There are form factor, battery performance, and processing limitations today that impede the true viability of this segment.

Maybe in another couple of years.

[loringe]

I believe Apple's target is still the home and creating a simple touchpad type device that could control everything from music to home automation is where they are headed. You already see some of this in the iphone, but there are a few draw backs to the screen size if you really want to create a great home experience.

[MrZook]

Apple will do what they always do:
1. let word of a secret project slip out,
2. wait for everyone online to make mock-ups and desired spec sheets,
3. deny that they're working on it, because its not a market they're after (remember the iPhone lite rumors)
4. release an amalgamation of what the fans want (minus a few features of course)
5. collect a grip o' money.

Its a brilliant business model that takes advantage of the ease of information spread, and the bottomless talent pool on the internet. Kudos.

[myles taylor]

3. What about the iPhone Lite. We still don't have one.

[MrZook]

True, but there were faint rumors months ago, and Apple denied it as a direction they didn't want to take. Now there are more intense rumors that Verizon is looking toward two Apple devices. I see it as an inevitability.

[myles taylor]

Perhaps, but I still don't think it will ever happen. An iPhone Lite just doesn't make sense. This is one of those "I'll believe it when I see it" things. Either way, I don't think it should be included on your list of points since it still hasn't happened and isn't official it tends to invalidate your point.

[rcardona2k]

It must have WiFi and non-vendor locked at least 3G/WiMax/4G, data.

[Gambit642]

I would like to see a iPhone sized device which would interface like an iPhone when traveling traveling (for mobile mail and browsing), but could dock in to something like the original stand-up Palm Pilot cradles which could output high-res video and input's for the mouse, keyboard and run a desktop OS. Something that could run both the mobile and desktop OS's based on docked or mobile status.

Merging the notebook, desktop and hand-held. The tablet and netbook idea is just over-complicating a simple solution.

[Maccess]

Right on the mark, Gambit.

It could have a multi-core CPU that uses one core when on the go, but two to four cores when docked. the video card would be in the dock, through some kind of XGP port. Ahh, we should stop dreaming and get back to work...

The USB should be wireless. FYI, the iPhone already runs a desktop OS - Mac OS X, a specially customized interface, for sure, but it could also have the regular interface onthe big screen.

[majohnson87]

iPad? Seriously ? My money is on Macbook Touch as a name. iPad seems more likely the name for an iPhone, iPod touch driven game console.

[GoPowers]

I like the Macbook Touch as well... Ties in with Macbook Air and Pro, except with one problem, I doubt this thing will fold like a book.

So, I bring to the table - the iPod Touch Pro. Actually, no.

[inter_loper]

I say bring back the iBook name. It makes sense with their naming conventions.

[myles taylor]

Same here. Apple's teams will come up with something a lot better than "iPad".

[Gambit642]

@ majohnson87
Or Apple branded sanitary pads.

"Is it that time of the month? Pick up new super absorbent iPads with wings. Comes with 1 free music download."

[iBuzz]

I like it...

The Apple MaxiPad.

[Seaspray0]

No strings attached?

[scott2400]

NOW - with HotFlash memory....

[tojoe_dotmac]

THE killer app for this device would be the face-to-face Video-Phone Call.

[mtbjohn]

I agree with a few of the earlier comments about the form factor. A device larger than an iPhone isn't convenient to carry around.

As for the name if the product does happen, how about iBook?

[elllroy]

nice article tom. intersting read and good sum up. the rumormill is seriously heating up on this one. i would add that doubling as an eraeder of sorts could be one of the killer apps. imagine optimised newspaper or magazin epapers with subscriptions available via itunes + ebooks of course. the iPad (or how about iBook?) as the kindle killer, ultimate mobile game console, hd video screen, internet/email + 1000s of apps for $699. sounds like a winner to me.

[rapier1]

Except for battery life. If it can't do 12 hours of use between recharges it won't work all that well as an e-reader.

[Seaspray0]

"1000's of apps for $699". Not interested. I've seen too many bargin bin CD's "1000's of games for $10".

[alexcnovak]

I want one. Now.

[Seaspray0]

Well, you're just gonna have to wait. Chew your fingernails or something.

[JohnFredC]

I want one, but a) it must have a camera, and b) it must have a stylus (for drawing).... otherwise, it won't address my specific needs and I won't buy it, regardless of compelling interface, form-factor, etc. Listen up, Apple!

[bonesbautista]

Check out the Axiotron Modbook. Not cheap, but there you go.

[Ingotian]

I had a Psion netbook nearly 10 years ago, I have a UMPC and now an ASUS EEEPC running Ubuntu Linux. Psion netbook failed because it was too expensive and didn't have USB connectivity and was too far ahead of its time. UMPC running Windows - too slow and under-powered and too expensive. Awkward to use if you want to enter reasonable amounts of text, battery life too short. EEPC - only real complaint is the mousepad. It as enabled me to ditch a PC laptop but I do have a desktop for home base use mainly for a full size keyboard and bigger screen. If the ASUS had out of the box 3G connectivity usable with skype I would be a long way towards ditching my cell phone. If it supported higher res display I would probably ditch the desktop. So we are not there yet but it is getting closer and probably there will be some variety to meet different preferred ways of working. One thing for sure is that the domination of Windows for mobile computers is at a watershed. Apple might initiate something but they will not be the only player in this space.