Comments on: Report: Ballmer disses on Apple

At a conference in New York, Microsoft CEO is asked about Apple's computer market share. He responds by summing up the difference between PCs and Macs.

[sciontcya]

MS fanboyz are as stupid as Ballmer.
Better question: who's gonna buy an MS Table now?
What a fat, sweaty tool.
If you own MS stock, do yourselves a favor and vote this idiot out before you're another Palm.

[cain_cross]

lol @ mac users not using antivirus and who claim to not need any:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2917

[sciontcya]

Oh lord...yeah, and ZERO exploitations in the real world.
OTOH, our company spends millions on products to TRY to keep Windows machines running.
And even that ain't enough.
LOL - you keep on dreamin'
Most of you guys couldn't get a job with Geek Squad, let alone hack Safari.
And BTW, did you read that article about IE and Firefox too?
I did.

[ballmerisanape]

Look up the definition of a computer virus. It does not include a balding, nerdy guy who spent weeks finding an exploit that's.. well... never been exploited..

A program can not spread itself in the Mac OS like it can in Windows.. it just can't. That's why there are no.. and will be no... viruses that can exploit the Mac OS.

Now look up the definition of "social engineering" and "Trojan".. and we can talk about security issues across all platforms..

[seven7dust]

except it wasnt a Virus
Shows you clueless Windows users r about security

and yet certain People{trolls} keep blaming the users
for windows problems

[rattyuk]

@ seven7dust

BUT it did require the "user" to click a link. So it is still a user problem.

[jbcahill]

And there's on more thing....

IF...and I do mean IF...you ever have to call Apple for technical support...YOU GET TO TALK TO A PERSON THAT SPEAKS FRAKKING ENGLISH AND LIVES RIGHT HERE IN THE GOOD OLD U.S. OF A!

That alone is worth $500.

Ballmer is an idiot and the Microsoft board of directors would do well to dismiss him from the company.

[iPhoneUser]

Who would you rather have running your company of choice, this blabbering idiot named Ballmer or anyone else at Apple after Jobs leaves? I'll go for anyone else at Apple- it's much better to appear ignorant than open your mouth and remove all doubt Mr. Ballmer. Nothing says how out of touch you are with your consumers more than your comments as quoted in this journalistic fluff piece. CNET = TMZ for technology.

There is a reason too why none of the new Apple OSs are backwards compatible with prior versions - it's because when new OS versions are released, they actually work and are better than their predecessors so you never want or need to go backwards. How's Vista working out for you? Tell me, who copied who, Vista or OSX? Imitation is the highest form of flattery.

And considering more than 1/4 of Americans should be classified as legally retarded and have their right to breed taken away, I wouldn't put too much stock in bloated market numbers that say MS "owns" the market. MS is clearly sliding downward and Apple's rising - it's ok all you PC junkies, I'd be upset too if I was sitting atop a thrown for 10 years and was booted off in a matter of moments.

[smollica]

It's never been just the hardware, but how the hardware, OS and such programs as iLife and now iWork all work together. That's always been the point .

[iPhoneUser]

Seriously...how well does your wonderful PC integrate with all your other devices? Oh, you're still trying to download USB drivers and configure the devices? I'll wait...

[ERG3-GA]

Ballmer could not have summed up it up any better, at least for his world. That's because he (& Microsoft) don't get it. If you build cheap, you get cheap. If you build quality, you get quality. Twenty-five years ago, MIcrosoft said the future of computing was in software not hardware, yet Ballmer references hardware instead of software. Go figure.

In reference to catch23's post: do we have to remind you about Vista. I can't remember any Mac user ever installing a new MacOS and then DEMAND to go back to the older version. Nor has Apple ever had to sell new computers with their old operating systems on it because of demand. How many new PC are sold today that are NOT running Vista. Vista is crap and Microsoft knows it. That's why they are frantically working on Windows 7.

I have had a Mac for over 10 years. I spend hours daily on the web for various reason and have never had a virus. I've never had to constantly update virus definitions or constantly install patches for poorly written and poorly tested software. Everything just works... flawlessly.

My latest Mac at home is a 4-year old PowerBook Pro. My wife has a less than 1 year old HP laptop. Unlike her machine, it doesn't take half an hour for my Mac to boot up. Nor do I encounter countless application freezes. Control-Alt-Delete doesn't come second nature to me. Oh, did I mention that I have NEVER had to endure a "blue screen of death."

My current office is 99% Mac now. We have a Mac tech that we see maybe once every 6-9 months (mostly for ensuring all systems are running the same versions of all software, etc.). Every previous office that I have worked at has been majority PC and we either employed a full-time staff of tech people to support the machines or we regularly (at least 2 weeks out of the month) had to have tech support personnel service our PC needs. For every one Mac tech support person out there, there are literally 1000 PC tech support people. That's NOT because of market share, that's because of necessity due to poorly written software, inferior design and QA.

All that Ballmer's comments show is that he has Google and Apple envy. Ballmer and Microsoft may have the numbers on their side, but he can't figure out that quantity does not equal quality. Microsoft may have the market share, but it's not because it is a better product. In fact, I know tons of people that would prefer to use a Mac at work, and even though the applications they use are available for Macs, the companies have been slow to move to Macs.

Ballmer is trying to save face. He is losing ground to both Google and Apple everyday and he can't stop the hemmorraging.

[iPhoneUser]

I want all you Windows lovers to try something:

Copy the URL of this article, open up a new message in Outlook, and try to paste the URL in the body of your email. Doesn't work does it? Nope, you have to have the email window open, then copy the URL, then paste it - completely lame. On OSX, you copy, then open an email, then can paste it. MS blows.

[The_happy_switcher]

When you're fed ***** all your life after awhile it starts to taste good which is why Windows users put up with mediocrity.

[blackberryken]

HAHHAHA, try copy and paste with your precious iPhone..........

Oh, that's right, you don't have copy/paste in the king of smartphones.

Guess there are pros and cons to everything in life.

[rattyuk]

@blackberryken

Jailbroken iPhones have had it since day one. All iPhones will have it with the next release. If you are a dev you have it now.

[iPhoneUser]

Ballmer fails to mention too that you'll need that $500 in savings to apply to your purchase of anti-virus software that is always one step behind the Trojans of this world.

Seriously, do any of you PC heads have anything more clever to say than to resort to the weak fanboi cry?

[pithenumber]

AV is free and unless I'm running a benchmark I don't really notice any difference in speed

the Anti virus argument is old and outdated and you still use it!

[csoccer1]

@pithenumber

i'm sorry, but AV isn't the best solution for windows internet security software. Norton offers excellent service and protection updates that free software just can't match. free antivirus will never out do a paid antivirus program. the anti virus argument is not old, it's still ongoing. the day when i don't have to go out of my way to install an internet security program on my windows machine is the day pigs will fly.

[flapjackboy]

@csoccer:

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Oh, you weren't joking.

[EcuadorHomesOnline]

I had to use a mac at work for two years and absolutely hated it. Unstable, crashed all the time, and slow as molassas. Sure, this was before Windows 95 came out and I know things have changed. But I've never touched a mac since then, i am happy to say. My PC did actually crash once last year - what I called "Mac Emulation Mode".

[iPhoneUser]

Macs made in this century are entirely different. Next time you're fogging up the glass at an Apple store peering inside, why don't you try actually going in and using one? Are you afraid of how much you're going to like it? :-)

[ballmerisanape]

My great grandpa had to drive a horse and buggy too.. now all he does is walk. I've tried to get him into the car.. but he insists on telling me about how he doesn't like buggies...

[Inconnux]

Try mac now... it is a completely different OS base. OSX is based on FreeBSD Unix now and is VERY stable.

[rattyuk]

This is the problem with the majority of so called PC fanbois. THeir experience with the OS was from school and they assume, like Windows, it hasn't really moved on. So they sit and snipe from the sides working on the false assumption that they are right because "they've used a mac and it was crap".

Ironically I have head PC users say that if the Mac is so good how come it has BootCamp?

Bootcamp is there to make switchers feel happy. "I'll buy a mac and if it doesn't work I can always run it as a PC" - but you know what - after about 3-4 weeks a vast majority of them do not bother. I've had first hand experience of 10-12 PC to Mac switchers and ALL of them have erased their boot camp partition. Some still use crossover to run one or two PC things that don't work on the Mac - Intuit's Quickbooks Online being a particularly galling example (it's a web site *** does it HAVE to use IE rather than all the open services available - they upgraded their system last week to great fanfare but as far as I can see all they have done is changed the color of their graphics).

And, worse than all of this the people who have migrated are the loudest proponents of getting others to switch. In fact they're a bit like the ex-smokers who have an anti smoking campaign. Go Figure.

[pithenumber]

@lconnux
OS X being based on UNIX means that UNIX tricks can be used as hacks!
how wonderful
*waits for 25% market share for Mac OS X*

[csoccer1]

@pithenumber

ok, your a little uninformed. all of those insecurities with unix have been patched up by apple in each of their osx versions. it's not like osx is unix with a pretty shell. it's much, much more. if it was JUST unix, mac's would be considered obsolete in today's market. osx is mainly based on FreeBSD and Unix combined, along with apple code protection added in to prevent these hacks and tricks you speak of.

[pithenumber]

@csoccer
even though it requires physical access
there a good unix trick for becoming root and its easy as 1-2-3
and it works on Mac OS

there are even more!
even ones that don't need physical access, but those on a forum/comments can do real damage

sure Apple patched stuff up, but not all of it

[professionaladventurer]

HERE IS MY $.02: I have both OS's on varied hardware. I manage people who use both. M$ OS is a pain in the ass COMPARED TO (but not so bad if you have NO comparison) to OS X. Then there are the USERS; Apple users are so much easier to deal with if and when there are issues. FACT; end of story. If I need a $100 computer I buy a XP 2.4 ghz Dell with a 17" LCD from craigslist. If I need a new computer for MY desk. I get a 24" iMac and add a second 19" monitor (does not need to be Apple).

[johnwbishop]

It's shocking that this thread is so active...;)

A couple of questions: Why does Ballmer think that going 'cheap' is still how most people make their decisions? Also, why not start with the assumption that your customers want something that's high quality?

[Perry_Clease]

"A couple of questions: Why does Ballmer think that going 'cheap' is still how most people make their decisions? "

He may be right about that. However, that doesn't mean that everyone is penny wise and pound foolish.

[csoccer1]

i don't get it either. Ballmer is a complete failure when it comes to market expectations. He said the iPhone would be a flop, how much credibility can you give to a guy that would say such a thing? He's stupid and ignorant, more so than a pc or apple extremist. it saddens me that he doesn't realize that "cheap" isn't the only market people go after. Proof is the iPod Touch and the iPhone, along with the number one computer on college campuses, the MacBook. It's time for him to get to work and actually bring his products into 2009 and stop dissing successful companies.

[elgarak]

1) One does not save $500 when buying Apple-equivalent hardware in the Windows world. Ballmer either lies, or is delusional if he thinks that's true. (Try it. No cheating: Do not forget the monitor when trying to match an iMac, for instance. Get EVERYTHING the Mac has. Don't forget to factor in savings for doing your own work when building a machine. How much do you save just by doing things yourself?)

2) As others have said, the OS makes a huge difference. In particular that Apple is currently selling hardware that will get a huge boost in performance when Snow Leopard will be released later this year (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=&articleId=9129960).

3) That logo is worth a lot. http://www.ifoapplestore.com/db/2009/03/20/mall-speculators-love-apples-logo/

[pithenumber]

I save a lot of cash by building by myself
I saved $1000-$1500 by building a budget gaming PC instead of buying a top of the line iMac
and got a MUCH faster graphics card (HD4870 vs GT130), a faster processor, and a larger screen

that's upfront only
if you include all that TCO stuff Macfanbois like talking about, the PC is still cheaper
if you don;t like Windows, get a hackintosh, not a Mac

[csoccer1]

@pithenumber

first of all, the top of the line imac and the second top of the line iMac both support gt 130 AND ati 4850s. The iMac is an all in one made using laptop parts in order to keep it compact. Now, i'd like to see you build an all in one like the iMac. You can't. So don't even bother comparing your custom build PC to an iMac, compare it to a Mac Pro (i'd have to agree with you that the Mac Pros are waaaaay overpriced).

[flapjackboy]

@elgarak:

Base model 20" Dell XPS One: $799

Base model 20" iMac: $1199

Both pretty much comparable, spec-wise.

[speed_baby]

The problem here is Mac's and PC's are totally different user aims.
I'm a PC gamer and there are some games that will never be released on Mac. I build my own machines with parts that are competitively sold at thousands of stores. Apple limits their hardware to guarantee compatibility. I can build a PC for less than $200 (reusing XP) or buld a gaming machine with the latest and most powerfully video cards (yes, multiple, SLi'd) motherboard, DDR3 memory, and Intel CPU and the water cool it. Apple can't match that, won't seel their OS separatly, and it voids your warrantee to modify.

So if you don't want to ever have to fix anything, get a Mac, (they will fix it for you if it does go wrong).
If you want to pay 1/2 price and aren't afraid to get your hands dirty, get a PC.

On viruses:
If your a pickpocket and and there is 1 person on one side of the street and 9 people on the other, where would you go?

[elgarak]

I doubt your $200 PC includes the monitor, keyboard, mouse and other niceties each Mac includes (except the Mac mini, of course). And you're reusing XP... which saves you, how much? $200 for a new Windows license? Makes your $200 PC actually $400... plus your unpaid work... plus costs for applications like iLife...

Again, if you think you're saving $500 by not buying Apple, you're cheating.

[seven7dust]

ok I get where yr coming from
for you building PCs is the way to go
Since youre into gaming
but stop saying stuff like 1/2 price
no gaming rig will be half the price of my Mac mini
at best
you may save some money up front but you'll be spending more in the long run

[Inconnux]

Sorry speedbaby but that arguement is lame... just an example...
Apache pretty much owns the webserver market... yet there are FAR more exploits for MS IIS. Microsoft products are just poorly built and are a security nightmare.

[pithenumber]

@elgarak
a new Win XP Pro SP3 license costs me about $65 to $75
its called OEM cds and volume pricing

[Lethality]

Ballmer will never, ever, ever understand. And that's why Microsoft will always fail.

First off, it is FAR from the same piece of hardware. If that's what Ballmer really thinks, you better sell your Microsoft stock.

[pithenumber]

it is the same piece of hardware

[csoccer1]

@pithenumber

what is with you, i go looking on cnet for some quality cmts and i see you, posting one after another. the only computer the can actually compare to an apple computer hardware wise is the Dell Adamo. your custom built PC's aren't made of a unibody aluminum enclosure with LED backlit screens and the thinness or a laptop. apple uses the same internal parts that a pc uses, but they enclose them in a much higher quality case with a much nicer design.

[flapjackboy]

@csoccer:

O RLY?

Actually, the Dell Studio Hybrid pwns the Mac Mini both in price and spec.

[pithenumber]

@flapjackboy
studio mini is bad compared to new mac mini
@csoccer
I only care about internal parts
many people care about the outside, those people can buy a Mac
I've already said this I think
I don't care about the case

you can give me plastic, aluminum, oldskool beige, ... case and I would not really care

for me, normal PC hw is much better than Apple hw

oh yeah, we have cool cases too
not that I'd use it for my own build, only for customer builds
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119138

I don't have anything against apple, I do have numerous iPods and a couple macs (bought back in the good ol' ppc days)

[Tod Smith]

If you use Vista x64. I've encountered many virus I that launched with no consequence. Vista x64 is safe from most.

Apple sells lowend PCs now with their OS X. Their OS X is the best out of the box, because there isn't much other available. Also does MS sell PCs? It HAS to focus on their own software packages. Windows has compatible from MANY years. Due to the compatiblity it's their greatest strength and weakness. Note their aren't many games on the Apple OS. The enigma about MS is that if you don't buy PCs for gaming you'll buy the 360 which is MS's MAC.

[sparrowhyperion]

I still fail to understand the mindset of people who have so much more money than brains. Apples are not worth $500 more unless you happen to be one of the her that just buys whatever is more expensive to be fashionable. PCs are less expensive, more useful and more easily (and inexpensively) upgraded. I equate the Mac with a kids toy. It is so dumbed down that a 3 year old could run it, but them again, what 3 year old can afford one...

Apple is famous for selling overpriced gizmos to the Yuppie and Guppie (Geriatric Yuppie) crowd. People still buy them just to have the little logo on the box. They fail to realize that apples are just overpriced PCs nowadays.

[csoccer1]

ugh, here we go again. look at your laptop, and then look at a macbook. major win for apple there. now look at the thinness of both compared, and then look at the tech specs in each. your laptop may have a faster this and larger that, but it's also a hell lot uglier and thicker. i have a pc at home, and i could never compare it's huge tower to a slim iMac. They are 2 totally different things. and osx isn't a dumbed down os, you can customize it like windows and even run windows programs directly within osx. why am i even replying to your cmt, after all, you think mac buyers are "yuppies" or whatever that is supposed to mean. sighh

[flapjackboy]

@csoccer1:

Yeah, you see I don't buy a computer because I want to sit and look at it, admiring its beauty all day. I buy a computer because I want to get stuff done on it.

[seven7dust]

@flapjackboy
agreed I bought my Macbook too to get work done not to Gaze at it all day
I could have easily bought a windows machine
but windows forces me to spend time on it's maintenance
and other BS
while OSX also allows me to get things done in half the number of steps !

[DeveloperDude]

Oh, and yes - an operating system.

He forgot about that.

BTW Mr. Ballmer - I would gladly pay $500 extra for an OS that actually works correctly, but I don't have to: the Mac I bought costs about the same as an equivalent PC - as long as I didn't buy memory from Apple. If I had paid a premium I would have recouped it the first week in saved time from not having to reboot, or deal with wasting time trying to get Windows to do something that takes 30 seconds to setup in OSX.

There is this thing called "value", and cheaper is not always better.

But keep trying with the FUD - it works on some people who don't know any better. Fewer and fewer, but it still works much of the time.

[EricJM001]

Steve Ballmer is trash-talking about Apple because he is worried about them. The other day I went out to the local computer stores. The computer section at the local Best Buy was empty, not a single person shopping for a new computer. The Apple Store was filled with people, looking at and actually buying new computers. It's interesting that Ballmer always quotes Apple's global market-share when comparing it to Microsoft's. That is because in the US, Apple is doing well, very well, and he should be very worried. If the rest of the world thinks that Windows is the way to go, what difference does it make? Americans don't care what the rest of the world thinks. America is different, here people pay a whole lot more that $500.00 for a particular logo.

[pithenumber]

so Apple is worried about MS?
they've been trash talking for years

have you seen the ads?

[csoccer1]

both companies are worried about each other. end of story.

[jdukvoac]

I LOVE WINDOWS!!! I've been working in the IT world for 2 decades now, and can tell you people that Microsoft and Windows is a godsend to me. Without it, I'm not sure I'd be in this industry as I think that maybe there would not be enough work for me.

Ok, ok, all joking aside. I've been using Microsoft products since the early DOS days, and have been along for the ride through every inception of Windows (including ME). I started to use OS X 2 1/2 years ago, and have since changed all my computers at home (wife's computer, daughter's computer) to Macs. Am I saying that everyone should switch to Macs? No. If someone sees me with my Mac (as they often do) and ask me about them, I will relate my experience, which has been very good. Albeit, my experience does not necessarily represent everyone's experience, but I think it echos the general sentiment of satisfaction.

As for Microsoft and Windows, well, I think they also serve their purpose. In the business world, they are kinf of the heap right now, and will be for a while, and so I am employed. Both sides of the fence seem to have their own quirks and problems, and it has been my experience that Windows tends to be more demanding maintenance-wise. If I had a choice right now at work, I would choose OS X over Windows for my workstation, however, I do not have that luxury. So, I work on my Windows XP machine, and deal with any problems which may come my way.

As for Vista and Windows 7, remember that Vista was touted as a wonderful OS early on until it was released into the hands of consumers. If I were still a Windows user at home, I would be waiting at least 6 months before comitting to Windows 7, unless of course you have two machines at home and have the luxury of playing around with both or doing a dual boot scheme. Just my opinion, which the reality of it is that it doesn't amount to a hill of beans on these forums anyway.

As far as the hardware is concerned, I work on Dells everyday, and between Dells, HP (business class), and Apple, I think Apple has a more solid build machine, but HP's Business class machines are pretty solid also, whereas Dell PC's are just way too plasticky feelign to me. I've seen way too many broken pieces on Dells than the other two.

Everything else aside, I think Microsoft really suffered a lot when Bill left the company. Like Jobs, Bill was seen as an iconic figure for the company, and he had vision. In my opinion, Ballmer seems more like he's out of touch in his own sence with things in the real world. That being said, I think it's important as a CEO to try and boost your products, but as he does so, he also validates Apple by talking about them in the same sentance. Yes Microsoft has what, 85% of the market share, what ever the number is, its irrelivant because they consumed all that marketshare under the leadership of Gates. Under Ballmer's watch it is slipping, although it may be small, it may grow to be more problematic than some may think. After all, an ocean starts with one drop of water.

[jaffreywali]

A Mac looks like a Mercedes, Dell and HP hardware looks like a Hyundai. They could use parts made by the same people, but I'd rather have a Mac on my desk than an ugly Dell. Would I pay $500 more?

Actually the iMac 24 inch costs the same as a similarly equipped Dell or HP all in one.

[msjonker]

And that's the beauty of the PC, anyone can build one. If you want to get a low-cost PC, go to Dell, HP, etc. But if you want to pay more for better hardware, YOU CAN! No one is dictating the hardware you can use and no one is fixing the prices. What options for vendors do you have when looking to run OSX?

[csoccer1]

the sad part is that no PC manufacturer will design their products like apple's in fear of people actually loving the design. weird, i know. there are some rare cases, like the voodoo envy or the adamo, but there really aren't very nice looking pcs out there.

[msjonker]

I guess if you wanted a piece of modern art, then an Apple is the way to go. However, I value actually using the computer, which is really the point of buying one, right?

[seven7dust]

@msjonker
if you think Apple's designs r modern art
you should check out their O.S it's a form of digital art
which is a joy to work with and gives you little to zero problems

The way I see it, Apple goes the extra mile and aims for perfection
in everything they do,
while other companies just go skin deep and take things for granted
one needs to use their O.S and software to appeciate the value
of Apple design !

For the record I personally don't like the design of the new Unibody
Macbooks ,while their r many Pcs I like for eg-: Sony TZ etc.
But IMO OSX is a O.S thats worth n e compromise