Comments on: Apple and the Nvidia 'problem'

Nvidia again finds itself in the middle of an uproar over issues with an Apple notebook. But are Nvidia graphics chips really the problem? And are the issues that widespread?

[Vegaman_Dan]

Any video chipset will degrade and fail if you overdrive it and put it in an environment that it cannot properly cool in. Since those specs for the chipset are known in advance of the system being designed, you could blame the laptop maker for a poor design. But then on the other hand you could be that same laptop maker who is getting those specs from the GPU OEM and designing your system around those specs only to learn later that the specs were artificially inflated to improve performance with over driven chipsets, etc.

I think there's enough blame to go around for everyone on this one.

[sobishop]

So this is what $3000 buys me...a defective laptop. I guess the almighty and perfect Apple can make mistakes too. Crothers asks the question in the first paragraph "And are the issues that widespread?". Of course not cause no one can afford nor are they in their right mind to drop that much money on this simple machine.

[gregraven]

My older 17-inch MacBook Pro has the ATI Radeon X1600 graphics card, and it has lots of graphics artifacts. I contacted Apple, and the rep said I needed a new graphics card. So, I took the day off from work, drove to the nearest Apple store (it's a ways away), and the "genius" at the bar told me it was a software glitch that would be handled any minute -- he was going to "escalate" it just to make certain.

This happens most often when I am using fast user switching, and am using Delicious Library, iMovie, or capturing video using Snap Pro X.

For what it's worth, I have my MacBook Pro elevated on a open-frame wire shelf, and the room temperature has not been above 69 degrees for a couple of months.

[ncalishome]

I used to own a 17-inch MacBook Pro also with an ATI Radeon x1600. Playing games on it was not pleasant as the heat from the CPU/GPU was so much that the metal keys became uncomfortably hot to press and in general I could not comfortably set it on my legs even doing normal computing. I never had the problems you describe, but it seems to me "thermal design budget" might be the problem now with the nvidia chip.

Long story short, I sold the MacBook and bought a Thinkpad, and then bought a Mac workstation. I'm very happy with both.

[libertyforall1776]

The Macs do not and have NEVER used BIOS! They use EFI, and previously Open Firmware on PowerPCs...

[dhavleak]

I'm sure Brooke meant to use the terms interchangeably. Techies know the difference and non-techies don't care. Using BIOS gets the idea across quite easily..

[Magallanes]

EFI is a bios with other name and other limitings.
.

[oldmanangry]

What? "But back to discrete GPUs. If you want desktop-level graphics in your sleek laptop, then you're going to have to take the heat and, consequently, in some cases--if you push the graphics card--instability and graphics anomalies...."

How many ways is this column wrong? Well, you're NEVER going to get the desktop level graphics in a notebook. Desktop level graphics require hundreds of watts of power and produce enough heat that they can warm up a room. A notebook is never going to get near that. Sorry.

That doesn't mean you should accept lockups and glitches. What that tells me is that the notebook vendor blew it. They didn't put enough cooling in our put too hot a GPU in the notebook.

A 9600M is hardly the hottest GPU market and plenty of notebooks can run it all day running games with no overheating issues. You can get notebooks with SLI and Crossfire that make the 9600 look like the old and slow part that it is. Those notebook are as heavy and big as a boat anchor. That's ultimately the problem isn't it?

The notebook vendor puts too many parts in a notebook that is too thin and then leaves the fans as low as possible to not annoy people.

No, this a simple case of under engineering the notebook and not anticipating the work loads that
would placed on them. This is purely the fault of the builder of the notebook and I don't see how you say that if other notebook vendors make notebooks using the same part (albeit heavier and thicker and noisier).

Please stop cheer leading the ODM/OEM of these notebooks. It's like your notebook with integrated graphics: a properly engineered notebook would handle it fine. Your notebook with integrated graphics that crashes was not and by all accounts, neither is the Mac Book Pro either it appears.

[jscott418]

Maybe its just Apple worries more about fan noise then keeping things cool. EFI or BIOS it really does not matter. We know what you mean. Dell have some problems with Nvidia chips too and increased fan speed and/or cycles. Maybe we need a better cooling system for these thin and powerful laptops.

[Jeff Putz]

Every time a new product is released like this, there's a bunch of noise about how something is broken. These are consumer electronics devices, and some percentage fail. Always. Now that we have the Internet, those unlucky people seem really loud, but it doesn't mean they're a majority.

That said, I have the new 17", and I've not had any issues. In fact, the thing runs way cooler than the first generation 15" model I have. The fans run consistently at 2,000 rpm. It does seem strange that it doesn't go higher when there's more heat, but if I was really concerned about it, there are utilities that can help. Stressing it out, the CPU seems to top out around 170 degrees, and the GPU around 140, which I suspect is will within the limits of what it was designed for.

[Lerianis3]

Yeah, but when it gets to the 25% mark of things failing...... there is a defect with the WHOLE PRODUCT and you have to start getting a little more skeptical that the proper 'quality control' was done in the first place.

[Magallanes]

Apple admitted the mistake with the previous mbp 14",15" and 17" models.

So, it is not a isolated case but a recurrent problem.

[Jeff Putz]

Who says 25% are failing? You can just make up numbers and that makes it true?

[pithenumber]

the MacBook Pro doesn't have enough cooling for a 9600M

I wish Apple would stop its obsession with thinness

[junkieforsale]

Not sure about the heat issue but try with any of the newer MB or MBP:

1) Open Safari
2) Scroll up and down
3) Notice distortion on bottom half of the screen.

LInes are not rendered properly. This was not an issue with previous graphics packages.

[random truth]

What are you talking about?

[wegap]

i dont see it...

[stuve]

Yep, I see the distortion, although mine is throughout the window.

[MongooseProXC]

It sounds like an apple problem because I haven't heard of this with nvidia pcs. I would be angry if I owned one of these.

[clamenza]

Mac fanboys (and gals) would have had a field day if a PC manufacturer refuses to acknowledge design defects.

[random truth]

No they wouldnt. Nvidia has lots of defective laptop gpus. Just google search it. I dont understand why people still use nvidia...

[ikramerica--2008]

What are you talking about? Dell computers are full of design flaws, most of them don't make news. Mac users don't really care about that. We don't rejoice in the flaws of others like some Windows users seem to.

[tbass87]

Mac flaws make news because Apple products shouldn't have flaws because they are "perfect". Apple charges much more than PC manufacturers for their products and they make sure every piece of hardware is "Apple certified". For the extra cost you spend you would think you would get a dependable product but it is not always the case.

[marknichelson]

Apple should make its slogan "Sharp design, Shoddy engineering"

[quackadilly]

It all comes down to this:

Do you want a laptop that stays cool or one that has the capability to go fast while looking good?


While it may go fast, you are stressing the components! If you are in a warm-ish room, they will overheat.

[ncalishome]

My Thinkpad T61p goes fast, stays cool, and looks good! J/K on the looks good part... Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and while I love the look of my laptop most of my friends and family think it's ugly as sin. =)

[Dalmatian28]

This is the flaw that almost all Apple Notebooks have! Apple should have kept building notebooks with Intel integrated graphics inside the motherboard and make the powerful external GPU as an option for everyone that wants it / needs it. It would solved the "overpriced item" issue that many customers can't pass and also they would have product that actually works. I am amazed that Asus has managed to jam
GeForce? GTX 260M graphics processor with GDDR3 1024MB VRAM and 12GB of memory and up to 1 TB of memory and all that in a Notebook called ASUS G71Gx. I can't belive I am saying this but maybe Apple should ask Assus for help! It looks like that Apple has no idea what to do when it comes to graphics!

[goodspeed8701]

and people pay big money for this junk of hardwares. crapple suxs

[Dalmatian28]

sorry... this is correction of my post above: It is up to 1 TB of the hard drive space in the Notebook and NOT the memory as I previously stated. That was just honest mistake. Sorry!

[bhushan bhaagii]

Well, this is bad news no. three for the day. First, the layoffs, then the iPhone developers' contracts being unable to renew, and now this. I have still go through all the items/headlines in this ejournal.
Wondere if there is a no. four, also?

[cyclonica1980]

Apple wont put anything higher than a 6 series graphic set because it runs too hot, and kills battery life. I have a geforce 9800 GT in my laptop and im lucky if I push two hours on my 6 cell battery. Though with my 9 cell I do get around 4 hours of battery life.

[ikramerica--2008]

This is not the first time this has happened. Laptops get used in lots of non-ideal conditions. Add to that the lack of tolerances coming out of China, and you run into this.

In the past, Apple has released firmware updates for laptops to address things like fan speed, graphics clocking, etc. It's not new, it's happened before, they will address it.

As for it being an NVidia thing, well, the iBooks had problems for years with the ATI chips losing their soldering over time. From the first iBook white to the last iBook G4, this failure mode kept happening. It didn't matter where on the board they moved the chip to. It had something to do with the mobile graphics chip not liking the heating/cooling cycles of a laptop combined with the constant micro-stresses involved with a portable computer. You'd think that a laptop chip should be able to handle it...

[zamboknee--2008]

I'm wondering if this has something to do with my flickering screen on my 15inch MBP I just got a couple weeks ago. Going in to a Genius Bar tomorrow.

[AppleSuxLeo]

Apple=overpriced products with everyday Chinese quality. Windows 7 FTW !

[random truth]

AppleSuxLeo = Another tool FTW!