Comments on: Mozilla backs EFF in iPhone jailbreak support

Skype and Cydia also joined the Firefox developer in supporting the EFF, which is trying to get a DMCA exemption for those who jailbreak their iPhones.

[umbrae]

This is way I will never use an Apple product. I do not want to be considered a CRIMINAL just because my definition of "using" a product I spend a lot of money on differs than how a company wants me to use it. Saying the DMCA handles how you use a physical device is an abuse of the law that is just as bad as anything the RIAA has done.

[MadLyb]

While I am on your side, your argument is weak.

For example, I purchase a gun and the manufacturer tells me to lock the gun up and keep it away from kids and I decide that is foolishness and just stick it in the closet or under my bed and a child comes along and shoots themself or someone else, then I am a Criminally Negligent and can be charged because my definition os usage is different than the manufacturer and the law.

But, I still think the DMCA is a bad law and needs to be scrapped.

[Pete Bardo]

MadLyb, You've got to be kidding. Where's your little smiley on your post. Safe storage of your firearms hardly compares to iPhone jail-breaking. If the gun manufacturer required that you use only ammunition manufactured by them or you would be in violation of the "user's agreement", that would be comparable. Apple is not requiring that you lock up your iPhone and keep it out of reach of small children. They are telling you that you must use their ammo and their ammo only. That's abuse.

While I'm at it, umbrae, there are two reasons not to buy an iPhone--Apple's restrictive policies and AT&T, a company whose legacy speaks for itself. How many other carriers freely, and illegally I might add, turn subscribers information over to federal authorities-then ask for amnesty for doing so!

You can take AT&T out of the monopoly, but you can't take the monopoly out of AT&T.

[Penguinisto]

Do you use a Microsoft product? Because they have the exact same policy on their xbox. You mod it, you get screwed.

[bananaphonerules]

Penguinisto:

Don't Microsoft supply XNA Studio to create your own games for free? I could could create any stupid game i want, even if a similar game exists.

I think the argument is that Apple aren't giving the users choice and specifically go out of their want to prevent then having that.

[mandelbomb]

Most cell phones will have restrictions by the carrier so that you can't install your own applications. This can carry over to cell phones that are locked and can't be used by other carriers.

The Fed Gov need to make laws that all cell phones need be application and carrier unlock so everybody can do whatever they want with their cell phone. This makes it fair for everyone.

[Penguinisto]

"Don't Microsoft supply XNA Studio to create your own games for free?"

Sure - just like Apple gives you the iPhone SDK for free, and you can run the apps you build on your iPhone all you want.

The point is that you cannot mod your firmware on an xbox, any more than you can on an iPhone (at least not without getting in trouble, jacking your warranty, etc).

[Vegaman_Dan]

Penguinisto:

But I hear you. I understand your argument. But it's a very weak argument and one clearly meant to distract people from the subject at hand. We're talking about Apple here, not Microsoft or any other company.

By the way, you too are guilty of this very thing yourself with your Hackintosh. You installed OS X on a non-Apple hardware system, violating the EULA. How do you defend yourself in this situation? That's the same situation that Apple iPhone and Touch owners are in.

[CrashPad63]

Penguine, The Apple SDK does not give you the right to deploy any App on their Iphone. They give you a usage agreement for developement only. Once yopu develope they must approve before any app can be used.
The XNA gives total freedom. Not even compares to the restrictive and Draconian Apple.
4 years left people....Apple will fall.

[codynews]

They have EVERY RIGHT to say you can't jailbreak your phone... Just as you have every right TO USE THAT INFORMATION / LIMITATION when making a buying decision.

What's wrong with the idea of "I'd love to buy an iphone, but I'd like to Jailbreak it. Since they won't allow it, I won't buy one". ?

[MadLyb]

Well, to be fair, jailbreaking *is* a violation of DMCA. Doesn't mean I agree with it or like it. I don't. DMCA needs to be killed.

The problem is about ownership.

Apple basically says that they have the right to define the ownership of a product, and on a very simple level they are right. For example, if you modify the engine on your car, you violate the warranty of that product and the manufacturer can refuse to service the vehicle, but Apple is arguing that they have the ability to define how I drive my vehicle beyond service and warranty and that I take huge exception to. If it is true, then I don't own my device, I rent it for a one time fee and a hidden usage payment.

The only other exception I can see is at the carrier level, AT&T could claim that a jailbroken phone could have negative impacts on their network because the applications have not been tested and certified, but that is a very dangerous path because other mobile OS'es (Windows Mobile, Symbian) have allowed significant user modification for years with little or no evidence of negative impacts to the network. So, I doubt the carrier would push too hard down this path.

Apple is pretty far out on a limb here and I don't see anyone out there with them.

[Perry_Clease]

"Apple is pretty far out on a limb here and I don't see anyone out there with them."

Have you ever seen anyone out there with them? The iPhone is selling very well without being broken out of jail.

[Pete Bardo]

Sure, but they would have sold 1.6 million fewer if not for jail-breaking. That's not just chump change.

[ZetaZeta_]

The PlayStation Portable sells very well due to the homebrew scene, and I think iPhone is in a similar, yet not as extreme, situation.

[CrashPad63]

Something to consider about the jailbrakeing and the effect it has on ATT bottom end. Of the 4.4 million sold this last quarter, 1.1 million where activated. What happened to the others? Reminds you of last years 1.0 release dont it?
4 years..... Apple will fall

[goodspeed8701]

Apple cant tell me what to do with the iphone after purchase. we all know that if we all deside to use a hammer and break our iphone apple will never say anything like what they are saying cos they will expect us to buy a new one.

[solu1978]

Right on goodspeed8701.. Its all about money

[Penguinisto]

So what are your thoughts on mod chips in the Xbox?

[Vegaman_Dan]

Or people installing OS X on a PC against the EULA that comes with OS X? Those Hackintosh owners are facing the same thing. Perhaps once Apple is done going after iPhone users, they will start prosecuting people like Penguinisto for theft... which is accurate because if you are installing OS X on a PC, then you are denying Apple the sale of a full Macintosh hardware system. That's hundreds to thousands of dollars that Penguinisto cost Apple right there.

Jailbreaking the iPhone costs Apple nothing and actually *adds* value and use of the unit, making it even more useful and desirable, potentionally increasing sales.

[Nataku4ca]

@peng

mod chips are physical change, and they are used to play pirated games =.=

ms will void ur warranty for it because of change to system core but they wont sue u for it, pirated games however, not just ms, the developers will jump on u too

this is different from dev one game and shove it on the system, that is allowed

[Inconnux]

Hopefully there will be more support for Android with apple taking this stance.

[ReigningChamp]

I love the arguments here, almost exactly what I was thinking. Why shouldn't I be allowed to modify a product I paid for as long as it doesn't cause any harm to anyone or anything? I saw MadLyb's comment about not owning the phone but instead renting it, and while I understand it's just hypothetical there's no way that Apple could claim that as true in any way shape or form because once your service is up, the phone stays with you.

I had an iPhone and I just switched back to my razr. I looked at the option of jailbreaking, but to me it just wasn't worth it. Kudos to those of you vernturing into tech frontiers and changing the way our devices work. Modification can lead to innovation and here we're supposed to be free to do so.

[setgo]

You switched from an iPhone to a Razr???

Si yo compro algo es para mi uso y puedo hacer lo que se me venga en gana con el. Solo falta que APPLE haga juicio por que uno daña el iPhone oh lo rompe oh le pone accesorios, si ellos fueran mas inteligentes hubieran dado acceso a otros programadores a poder accesar en app store sin restricciones y no tener que hacer jailbreake el iphone para uno tener aplicaciones como video record o mms que eso es tan util en un telefono y este tipo de Apple no manda con esas features.

[codynews]

I think you're looking for news.mx

[cnet.aaron]

When is Apple going to send the fuzz after Ashton Kutcher? He's using a jailbroken iphone to post video to Qik, and endangering the world in the process. :)

As an owner of an unlocked and jailbroken iphone (and having supplied unlocked phones to several family members to use on T-Mobile) I can say with confidence that there are no issues with the procedure. Sure, the Cydia apps aren't always the best quality, and you have to be careful when downloading and installing unverified third party software, but it doesn't increase any risk to the user if they're conscious of what they're doing.

I'm really glad that the EFF has backed this cause. This is silly, and Apple will lose.

[myfacehurts]

damn thats a tourment. I bought the iphone fair and square and if i want to unlock it then thats my business. its like buying a cashmere sweater and then cutting it up. its yours, you can do whatever you want. Apple is getting really vert on themselves now. le t it go

[Vegaman_Dan]

I think it's just Apple trying to control what happens to the phones to avoid seeing hacked units out there that don't perform at the same level and causing confusion to the brand's identity. That could be considered damaging in their viewpoint, I suspect.

But in the end, the Apple Touch I bought with my money is mine and I'm going to do with it whatever I want regardless of what Apple has to say about it. If they want to press charges, then they'll be looking at a very large list of affected individuals who will never buy another Apple product again, and even more people who are afraid to ever buy another Apple product for fear of prosecution.

[applusr]

Regardless of company, Apple has every right to defend its software. Yes software, they never said you could do what you wanted with you iphone. Its the fact that the jailbreaking modifies the bootloader and OS, hmm sound familiar ? Psystar.

[Anysia]

I have an unlocked Palm Treo 650 (yes a bit dated) but I have never been saddled with "official palm ONLY approved" software, which is why I have no plans to switch to the windows based Treo, and am waiting for Palm OS6 unit.

Apple keeping their phones locked, and not giving consumers the option or ability to use other than their applications is shooting themselves in the foot.

[jafarm66]

I wouldn't buy an Iphone due to Apple being so anal (read money hungry) for people to use App store only. If I did decide to get one I'd purchase it full price then activate on ATT and jailbreak it and do a couple of other things that Apple wouldn't like (all expcept activation against their EULA). On a side note If Apple didn't want the Mac OS installed on NON Apple boxes they should have never gone with the same chipset as PC/Clones. After all the PC probably has more "hackers" than Mac has users,

[applusr]

Real intelligent! I hope you don't own anything sony or microsoft they are just as anal.