Comments on: Apple kills iPhone app, claiming API violation

But the developer swears his iPhone application followed all the proper rules, and in any case, Google's admitted use of off-limits APIs has drawn no rebuke from Apple.

[Tergon]

I want to answer this article in two parts

1) Apple Needs to point out the misused API to the developer so that he knows which one it was and he in turn should be able to reply with the proof that he thought it was a published API

2) Google, of course, SHOULD be able to use unpublished API. I say this for two reasons
a) They are More likely than other developers to be included in further Firmwares than other Developers. Maps is already there search is still in it's infancy and therefore while not firmware worthy still is more viable.
b) Google is less likely to create an app that will misuse (or even leave API open for misuse) than other developers. While this may not be true in a real world, it is true in a corporate world which is where Google and Apple live and joe developer (no matter how small the developer community is) does not.

[mattumanu]

"Google is less likely to create an app that will misuse (or even leave API open for misuse) than other developers. "

Can you give me evidence that this is true rather than just asserting it's true? Exactly how is it that Google is less likely to create an app that will misuse and API? Isn't using an unpublished API to take control of the proximity sensor on the iPhone a misuse? And after all, they developer said, "the last thing I would do is deliver time-bomb code to a paying customer." That means he doesn't want his application breaking just because he used an unpublished API.

[The User]

Given that Google's most valued asset is the usage data it collects I will dispute the claim that Google is least likely to develop something malicious. With latest releases (namely Chrome) Google indicated that it will push the envelope to the limit It leaves no doubt that if Google could squeeze any type of spyware that can be defended as semi-legal in court it would.

[loose_screw]

Of course Google gets special treatment. Think about it. Without YouTube support, the iPhone would have been a lot less appealing since it can't play flash videos. Google did Apple a huge favor by re-encoding videos in QuickTime friendly format for the iPhone, not to mention Maps.

[loose_screw]

"The User": Get a life. We have no time for MS shills here.

[dcmichie]

well only google gets special treatment of course

[t8]

All the more reason why Android will take off. No restrictions as it is completely open.

[texaslabrat]

amen :)

[Perry_Clease]

Yes, being totally open should work out well.

/snark

[The User]

Been there, done that.

Palm, BlackBerry, Windows Mobile have been completely opened for years. Sharp had a Linux phone. Of course such a novelty as Android will be even more open that completely open.

[Ilgaz]

Symbian, J2ME and Windows Mobile are open for YEARS and there are several software available for them.
It is not like Google will save the earth. Symbian going open source and J2ME being GPL will save it.

[artistjoh]

Whats the big deal? Google has had a close relationship with Apple since the early development stages of the iPhone and Google scratched Apple's back by allowing Apple engineers to design and create the Maps app using Google intellectual property (some people have observed that the reason some parts of Maps works better than Google's own version is because it was Apple engineers doing the actual work on the iPhone version). Point being that for Apple to object too strongly to Google taking a liberty might damage an incredibly valuable relationship that is important to the future of the iPhone.

Sadly whether fair or not, this smaller developer does not have that kind of leverage and does not impact one way or the other on the future of the device. So welcome to the real world where the concept of fairness is of small consequence in the bigger picture. Time for the guy to reinvent the product and try again.

I just wonder why this is "news".

[t8]

It's news because it is showing and aspect of the nature of the iPhone apps ecosystem which is of importance to some people.

[ittesi259]

I'm curious....if Apple will ban others for doing something, but let Google get away with things that are clearly a violation of the rules all developers are supposed to be filing...would that not open Apple up to anti competition lawsuits? Apple giving Google special treatment is putting other developers at harm of potential lost business because their apps will be rejected while Google sits around and freely admits breaking the rules and Apple doesn't enforce them equally. Can someone explain to me how this is legal? Too bad these developers don't have the finances to pursue this legally.

[Mr. Dee]

Sad, but I guess that's just the price for a developer living under the oppressive Government of Apple in the land called iPhone. Even Kim Jong-il would cringe.

[setgo]

Mr. Dee, Mr. Dee, Mr. Dee. Come on dude. There are over 10,000 apps in the store and a lot of developers are rushing to get their apps finished to join those masses. Oppressive? Really? Developers are making money in the app store. You are just experiencing a knee jerk reaction to the ones that get rejected and run to Krazit who they know will post their hard luck story.

Kim Jong-il? Really?

[Ilgaz]

If such an advanced Java developer like Mr. Fuller spares his months of time to a iPhone app knowing it may be validated or not... He kinda deserves it IMHO.

If I were him, I would make use of several J2ME 3d APIs or Symbian stuff and ship the exact app to ALL platforms except iPhone, in a weeks time. He can do it and it would be the only way Apple would understand.

With such a community who apologises for Apple in every chance, Apple won't really bother with open letters or anything. If such state of art code ships for ALL mobile platforms, they would indeed take it serious.

[ssmiroldo]

re: setgo:

"There are over 10,000 apps in the store and a lot of developers are rushing to get their apps finished to join those masses. Oppressive? Really? Developers are making money in the app store. You are just experiencing a knee jerk reaction..."

Well said setgo... My thoughts exactly. The number of cases like this is probably well under half a percent! I just started using the App Store for the first time 2 weeks ago on an iPod Touch and absolutely LOVE it! I wish the ENTIRE application installation process for Mac/PC was like this (or at least had an option to be like this)! It works incredibly well. You can buy/download/install apps with 2 touches, typically in less than 20 seconds and the App Store icon automatically alerts you to updates which take seconds to download and install.

Then, on top of that, you sync up with iTunes on your computer and can use these applications on any other iPod Touch/iPhone you own.

I believe, if done right, the App Store could revolutionize the entire application distribution market! In the case for the Mac/iTablet (or whatever it'll be called) Apple could offer this distribution model to developers as an option. Even though Apple would get a small cut, it would save the developer $$ in marketing, packaging, internet bandwidth, and even tech management costs of software licensing. Software sold through the App Store would be tied to the user/company iTunes account helping with the complexities, lost $$, and hardships of pirating and licensing issues.

Hopefully Apple will support this model and allow enterprises to have their own iTunes account and software distribution method. IT could turn the entire software market and IT management on it's head!

[hutchike]

There's JavaFX for mobile coming soon. Maybe he can port his "peeps" application to JavaFX for everyone to use on any mobile with Java?

[icallarlo]

I love Apple. Apple is great.

[fdunn3]

Brilliant reply. Did you read the article?

You could replace the "I'm a PC Guy" in the commercials.

What a dud.

[rdnetto]

Google should be treated just like everyone else, not given special rights. If they find the App store too restrictive, they can either improve it for everyone or not develop iPhone apps. The other problem is that there is currently no accountability for Apple's actions in rejecting apps. If they could be held legally accountable for rejecting perfectly valid apps, then I think that there would be far fewer illegitimate rejections.

[Savov]

Isn't that illegal? I just wonder how long before some anti-trust class action is brought against Apple. Come to think of it, people were complaining against Microsoft for pretty much the same things.

Grow up Apple!

[davidsmi]

Sigh... same same eh.

We have two hopes for open applications

a) Apple sees the light - makes open rules and follow them
b) The GPhone, Microsoft Phone etc etc get as good as the iPhone

[Melekai]

Dr. Eric Schmidt has been on the board of directors of both Apple and Google for a couple of years now. It makes business sense for them to partner on certain things. Letting Google get away with "tweaking" the API and not others, doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

[Orion Blastar]

Most likely Apple knew this guy was a small timer and cannot afford the lawyers to defend his case. The app looks like one of the Apple apps that sorts through song covers, but it is possible that he did not use an undocumented API and wrote his own code to imitate that function instead of using the API call for that function. Google gets away with it, because if Apple removes Google's app they will sue them for it. Google has powerful lawyers, this guy does not.

Besides I think an undocumented API is unfair, it is how Microsoft keeps its monopoly and stops people from making WINE or ReactOS run 100% Windows applications and drivers. Plus it gives Microsoft and Apple a big advantage no other software developer has which is what a monopoly means and is a violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act.

[FormerPCwonk]

Google just matters more than most other developers. Life isn't fair; quit whining and get over it.

[Ilgaz]

Whoa man., you know you guys look like the German public in 1930s?

Hell with Goodwin law, really.

[justindthomas]

This is absurd. Someone needs to take Apple to task for this sort of behavior.

I am an avid Apple user, but to allow this behavior is unconscionable. This developer spent time and resources developing his application; Apple should not be permitted to destroy the results of his efforts in such a demonstrably arbitrary and unaccountable way.

[loose_screw]

It's no secret that Apple isn't fair about how it rejects apps. The solution? Quit developing for Apple products.

[brian.lee]

by December 15, 2008 8:20 PM PST
Of course Google gets special treatment. Think about it. Without YouTube support, the iPhone would have been a lot less appealing since it can't play flash videos. Google did Apple a huge favor by re-encoding videos in QuickTime friendly format for the iPhone, not to mention Maps.

================

Don't kid yourself Google... you'll see ads soon enough on your iPhone You Tube videos.

[loose_screw]

So what if it does? It just means Apple and Google need each other. Who cares?

[Ilgaz]

Every S60 Symbian phone on planet and advanced J2ME (2.0) Phone on planet can play Youtube videos thanks to Youtube mobile app.
In fact, if you bother and buy Coreplayer, you can view the Youtube DESKTOP videos, the exact ones you can see with your browser.
It seems Apple plays to lack of publicity from Sun and Symbian (Nokia) and so far it succeeds.

[sgntscrawn]

Of course Google gets special treatment. After all, Google's CEO Eric Schmidt is on the Board of Directors of Apple Inc.... its not rocket science guys, its pretty obvious :)

[infernalman7]

Double standard

[fdunn3]

Amen to that.

Also, the standard "no response from Apple"

Well, of course. You can't get anything from Apple because Steve Jobs micro-manages them and you can't get a comment for Jobs unless you're willing to give a job.

[dracoaffectus]

Sounds to me like they used the wrong auto-reply message when rejecting Peeps.

Heh, maybe Apple rejected Peeps because it duplicates the functionality of their "Contacts" app.

If not, then this is just another example of Apple's arbitrary application rejection process that needs to be corrected, yet we all know, Apple won't be changing their ways any time soon.


Any word on if Android has had similar problems?

[Ilgaz]

They do this to Landon Fuller, the guy who saved Apple from a gigantic security disaster in MOAB period by putting his own reputation and future to danger.
He also shipped Java 6 months before Apple saving them from a major shame.
This is exactly why I will stay on Symbian platform while being a complete Apple user in other areas. Whoever runs that iPhone app store is not the Apple we know, really.

[menty666]

Hey guess what, Apple is the new Microsoft, with all the negativity that brings with it.

[Endbringer]

I cannot believe the comments on here are actually defending Apple for having two sets of standards; one for the big, rich developer and another for the small time, poor developer. Legally, Apple can be trouble for doing this because the license does not differentiate between developers. They have to treat everyone equally based on their OWN rules that they make developers follow.

[random truth]

Yes there is. There is a 4 versions of the sdk one that is free, the standard which is $99 a year, the enterprise with is $299 a year and the scholarship one. Each one has a different license.