Comments on: Apple's iPod event: 800-lb gorillas don't need buzz

Company didn't blow anyone away with Tuesday's iPod launches, but it continues to make the right tweaks to its juggernaut.

[dascha1]

Let's not forgot the other 1600 lb gorilla as well out there behind-the-scenes. The master of music-on-demand believes that the "idea" is worth more than "money" even from these guys.

[Lazymonkey44]

Great post! This is the 1st post I have actually sat down and read properly. And the whole apple is doing barely anything is so true! Maybe they should give us FM radio?!? I want to see that "Revolutionary" product that people have been going on about!

[timl2k8]

I laugh everytime I read that. Who the hell wants FM radio? Why? So you can hear agonizing car commercials while you are on your treadmill?

[MaLvaDo39]

The iPods have an accessory for FM if you truly need it.

It's a better solution since the antenna is built into the headphone line.
Unlike, other music players that have it integrated thus causing terrible static reception.

[da_alman]

timl2k8: there are lots of reasons to want FM on your mp3. For example. As you stated. Treadmill. You obviously dont go to the gym, but most of them have multiple tv sets with specific FM channels, so you can listen in while you watch.
Here in the bay area, it is football season. 49er games are broadcast through a certain FM channel. Those who go to the game like to listen to commentary / play by play. Why not use an mp3 player for his instead of lugging a radio around?
How many times can you listen to the same 1500+ songs on your ipod? I mean really. Even I cant listen to the same songs over and over and over and over and over. Then again, there are songs on my ipod that havent played in over a year because of the way it shuffles songs, so I guess maybe I havent listened to all 1500+?
Those are just some examples before you start laughing again.

[patch991]

Valid points da_alman! Why not have FM Radio? How bout in HD? What about Bluetooth instead of JUST Wifi? Why? Because some automobiles that don't support IPOD support bluetooth music, so no wires! Which leads me to another point brought up by MaLvaDo39 ... why would I want to carry an accessory (i.e. FM radio, Bluetooth) when it could be build right in?

[saffroncapital]

I agree with your view that success breeds incremental rather than step changes simply because step changes are no longer requires. But I would have confidence that if Apple was being seriously challenged that it could still deliver a step change to 'take back' the market.

Apple knows that if you don't innovate you are dead meat. I bet they are holding back on other innovations that either aren't yet cost competitive enough to make it into the final product - when you have as much market share as they do it becomes more about protecting and growing margins - but the innovation train won't stop, just the speed at which it is running.

[mayadanteamihan]

Why are his hands so THIN?

[timl2k8]

Well with each version of Steve Jobs they come out with, he's a little bit thinner, just like those nano's and touches. You didn't think he was a real person did you? Noooooooo.

[evansls]

steve now sports an all-aluminum, curved and glass design. he takes his job very seriously.

[john55440]

What a lazy, complacent, iPod "upgrade".

What Apple didn't do, is provide current iPod owners with a compelling reason to upgrade to the newer models.

[patch991]

A possible compelling reason would be the price drops? I mean, some new and current owners might not have thought it was worth it to upgrade or switch over because of the price. But at the same time, I think the TOUCH should should have been lowered even more (even after I plunked down $450 earlier this year for the 32G!!!). I mean, why is the TOUCH so much more than the iPhone? It's the same thing without the phone!!!! And why do iPhone users get a FREE upgrade to the 2.x firmware?? I have to pay $9.95! Whats up with that???

[Thomas, David]

I have purchased nearly all models of the iPod in the past, except the iTouch because I felt it could be cheaper. Guess what, I'm getting one now.

[ewelch]

This is the first birthday of the iPod touch, not second. It's one year old, not two.

[skillingssucks]

The day you were born is your first birthday, hence the name, birth and day. Does this seriously even have to be explained to you?

[leb0wski]

The first birthday of anything is the day of it's birth. A thing may only be one year old, but it is, technically, it's second "birthday."

[BenFlavoredCandy]

So you are saying that one year after you were born you turned 2?

[Vorgamorth]

HAH? A year after a child is born, he is not 2, he is 1.

[skillingssucks]

Wow, some of the posters here are just dumber than dirt. Vorgamorth and BenFlavoredCandy what part of "birthday" don't you get? The part where it says "birth" or the part where it says "day"? Learn the difference between a birthday and an anniversary.

[Mystigo]

How many anniversaries have you had skilligssucks. 12? Or is that 13?

[gboris]

The common way that the term birthday is used is to mean the anniversary of one's birth. I'm sure most people not familiar with the touch would interpret the article to say that it is 2 years old. The article should have been clearer by saying the touch is one year old.

[skillingssucks]

Mystigo monkey, I missed the part where you explained how I was wrong? Oh, wait a minute, you didn't. Get lost, clown.

[Tom Krazit]

I decided that the "first" birthday people are right, nobody celebrates their 21st birthday when they are 20 years old (as much as they may want to). The implication when you say "Xst" birthday is that whatever you are talking about is X years old, so I changed it above.

[Timothy Bandy]

The revolution was last year with the iPhone/iPod touch. This event just evolves software and features and keeps the iPod line extremely attractive for new buyers.
Two things though:
1. The App store is riding roughshod over any current or potential plans by Google, Microsoft, Nokia et al.
2. Games could catapult the iPod touch/iPhone into serious competition with Nintendo and PSP without Apple even trying.

[Mister Winky]

Jeez, Tom, could you have your nose wedged any further up Jobs' crack? Some of these statments just don't hold up to even the lightest scrutiny:

"Truly, few expressions of disappointment came from those outside of Wall Street, with its narrow-minded focus"

Really? Read some of the comments at Engadget and other places. Even many die hard Apple fans are underwhelmed at the changes. Surprised that the iPod touch still doesn't have GPS or support stereo bluetooth (or, say, cut and paste). What, did you expect the mainstream media to attack Apple on the day of their event? Wall Street may have a narrow focus, but at least they know the bottom line matters. It's not clear that these minor changes are enough to help Apple overcome a soft economy this holiday season, so Wall Street may be onto something.

"...the return to a long and slim design aesthetic seemed at first glance more pleasing to the masses than the "fat Nano" unveiled last year. The addition of the iPhone's accelerometer to the new Nano makes watching video on the most popular iPod more inviting."

Wait, so a 2" screen on the new nano turned sideways (along with the controls turned 90 degrees) makes it "more inviting" to watch video than the same 2" screen on a "fat nano" where the screen is already in lanscape mode and the controls aren't rotated? That's nonsense. Whether or not you like the thin form factor of the 4G Nano better, the fat Nano is naturally better for watching video. New does not necessarily equal improved, even when it comes from Apple.

-Mister Winky

[patch991]

Great points Winky!

In addition to your TOUCH comments .... I have to question Job's response to the customer's desire to have physical volume controls. Is it because the graphic slider is difficult to use? I haven't had a problem. Is it because you can't adjust volume when your using another feature outside of MUSIC? Maybe a little inconvenient, but I think that a physical control to turn off the WIFI would have been more useful. I mean I have to go through 3 steps to turn it off. Major inconvenience when I'm on a plane or I just want to save battery life to listen to my tunes!

Also, agreed about the new nano, I thought the same thing about the sideways controls. But people will still go for the "small" of it! And Job's plug about it being more "green" will also get more buyers onboard!

[Tom Krazit]

You're attributing the entire negative reaction to a few comments at Engadget and other places? Some people may be disappointed because Apple didn't give them the world, but many in that group would have been disappointed by anything that fell short of a mind-blowing revolutionary change.

Reviewers, people who have actually handled the new iPods, are giving them good marks, and if you're holding an old 2G iPod Nano, the new ones are a good upgrade. The iPod Touch is $100 cheaper for the two high-end models, and while I might agree that the lack of GPS is a disappointment, the omission of that feature isn't going to make people who were thinking about an iPod Touch go elsewhere.

You make a good point about the screen being the same size either way. But Donald Bell, who reviews these things for a living over at CNET Reviews, thought the form factor change made for a more inviting experience in his first look, and I trust his impressions.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10037051-1.html?tag=mncol;txt

[Mister Winky]

Tom, thanks for the reply. When it comes to natural product buzz, which is the point of this article, I take individual internet opinions more seriously (unlike, say, stock advice). More than "a few" people were disappointed that Apple didn't announce any Mac-related updates or anything more significant for existing portable devices. To portray the response as nearly uniformly positive is a bit too glossy and optimistic.

I don't doubt that people will like and buy these new products, but I'm also wary of professional product reviewers. Apple, like many product driven companies, is known to cater to those who cater to them. It's sometimes subtle, but it's the same thing auto manufacturers do to get good press. I've owned a few tech products that were reviewed positively by CNET Reviews and others and I've had distinctly different experiences. Anyone who is truly in the market to buy a given device has a valid opinion.

CNET's explanation for not downgrading the iPhone 3G rating when many people were having significant problems speaks to the issue of "focussing on the good aspects." If a RIM device had the same issues, I'm not so sure they would have gotten so much slack. Reviewers are generally going to give good reviews (or at least look for the bright spots) or they're not going to be able to continue in that line of work for long.

Lastly, let's be honest -- the announced price changes are factors of technological progress, economies of scale and competition in the component arena -- the prices could have been changed on the current products and caused at least half as much splash as the mildly upgraded products themselves. Realistically, dropping the Gen I iPod Touch $100 is almost as big a deal as introducing a mildly (MILDLY) enhanced unit for $100 less and reviewers would still have gone gaga over it a year after its release.

I wish Apple would make an iPod model with faster solid state storage (maybe a "performance model" foir $20-30 more) so my sync times weren't so long -- syncing the contents of my 4GB Gen 2 Nano over USB 2.0 can take 5-10 minutes. Fixing basic issues like this would improve my experience far more than a chip that communicates with shoes I don't have.

-Mister Winky

[Tom Krazit]

See, I think anyone who was expected Mac updates wasn't really aware of how Apple uses the now-traditional September music event: it's always about iPod/iTunes. And my other point was more that people weren't disappointed in the products themselves as opposed to being disappointed by what might have been: no matter what you hoped Apple might have introduced, I haven't heard very many people at all say the new iPods are BAD.

Apple doesn't need to dazzle every time they roll out a new iPod, they just have to continue to make good products. Whether or not these particular iPods merited the usual dog-and-pony show is something that I suppose could be debated, but I really do think the new iPod Nanos are a step forward for that category, with the addition of the accelerometer and the new curved design.

You're absolutely right that individual experiences with any product will vary, but I know our reviewers personally, and I trust their judgment. Those folks are passionate users of tech products and they very much have the individual user in mind when they review a product.

[Mister Winky]

I'd agree with almost everything in your last post, but this:

"Apple doesn't need to dazzle every time they roll out a new iPod, they just have to continue to make good products."

That depends on how you view Apple: as a solid product company or as an technology industry leader who is transforming the consumer model. Consumers want good products; Wall Street is always looking for growth and profits. These goals are usually compatible, but in the case of Apple, investors are concerned that the iPod may have peaked.

If the benchmark for calling new iPods "2nd Gen" includes such relatively insignificant changes as a different backing material or a battery that lasts 5-10% longer, I think Apple's growth may stagnate and that will spook the consumer tech markets. To continue growing, new iPods have to be compelling enough for people to want to ditch their old iPods. This "just buy the new model" philosophy by Apple's most rabid fans has been a major contributor to Apple's success over the last 5 years. Apple has a good track record (to date) of continually releasing compelling replacement products, but they seem to be slowing down in this regard recently as they expand their empire into new markets (iPhone, Apple TV, etc.).

For example, I can't see replacing my 8GB 2nd Gen Nano with a new Nano because I don't watch much video, so I don't see much of a benefit. Along the same lines, I can't see many 1st Gen iPod Touch owners dicthing theirs for new models -- the differences aren't substantial enough unless money is no object.

I hold Apple to a higher standard, as does Wall street, as do Apple fans as does Apple itself. Making good products is enough to sustain them, but hitting home runs is what has caused them to make large incremental gains and gain the attention of the financial community (for better or for worse).

-Mister Winky

[jcwestbrook]

The iPod Touch will never compete with other portable game systems until it can properly support games that use multiple buttons - I'm thinking RPGs and upcoming games like The Force Unleashed that don't rely on touchscreen interfaces and accelerometers to play. Certain games need a directional pad and multiple buttons. Even their Crash Bandicoot game in the app store is a racing game - not a traditional Crash game that would require jumping and attacking and a finer tuned way of getting around than tilting the device.

[Thomas, David]

Well, the first clue is, it was never intended to compete with portable game systems. If it does, it is merely through the ingenuity of game developers wanting to be on that platform.

As far as a directional pad, and multiple buttons, I believe the EA soccer game is spot-on what you should expect in the future.

[mbenedict]

No, the iPhone / iPod Touch platform is not a serious game competition to PSP and especially not to Nintendo. Not by a long shot. For three reasons:

1. Lack of physical buttons. Having virtual buttons reduces available screen space and not having some sort of a joystick / analog control makes it a non-starter for real gaming.

2. Not enough CPU cores. The PSP for example has two CPUs dedicated for gaming, i.e. the main MIPS CPU plus a second MIPS CPU for the Media Engine.

3. Really weak GPU. Here's the kicker: the iPhone and iPod Touch uses last generation's cell phone GPU which comes NO WHERE CLOSE to a gaming GPU. The PowerVR chip they use can do a pitiful 3.7 million polygons per second, compared to PSP's 35 million polygons per second! No contest. Even on pixel fills the PSP's GPU is twice faster than the iPhone.

And keep in mind on the PSP right now the performance is "clocked-down" in software to save battery life. But now since developers know how to make games run more efficiently, Sony has been hinting they may let future games use the full CPU and GPU clock speeds.

Even when the iPhone finally moves to today's generation's cell-phone GPU (PowerVR SGX) the likely performance will still only be around 10-15 MPoly/sec, less than half what the PSP is already doing today. The top line SGXs (capable of 30 MP/s and up) drain so much battery they are confined to bigger devices like laptops and desktops.

[artistjoh]

Really? Sounds like the reasoning employed by those who said the Wii will never sell ("underpowered", unconventional, stupid name, etc etc)

The simple answer is that, like the Wii, well thought out games are seriously fun on the iPhone. Try GTS world racing or Super Monkey Ball as an example, look at the brilliant word games that are popping up. Reviews describe some of them as addictive. The Wii forever killed the idea that a gaming platform has to be powerful to be fun and attractive.

However the iPhone has one huge advantage that even the Wii can't match - price. Games apps for the iPhone range from free to $12.99 with the majority being closer to 2 bucks than 12. As developers learn to get more out of the platform and its user base starts to outstrip Wii, PS3, and XBox 360 which based on the current acceleration of iPhone sales could happen in the next 3 to 4 years the iPhone could easily become an extremely important games platform.

[themapplestore]

Hmm, I've had a PSP, a Nintendo DS, and I'm currently typing this on a 2nd generation iPod touch. I'll reply to your comments by #:

1. I agree, the virtual buttons does suck, but the fact that it DOESN'T have these buttons makes for very creative games, especially with the accelerometor.
2. The iPod touch actually has a faster CPU than the PSP; although it can't produce the same mind-blowing graphics as the PSP, the graphics are of higher quality than a Nintendo DS and a Nintendo DSi.
3. I can't be happier with the load times. On the PSP, it could take up to 30 seconds to walk outside in the Sims 2, but any game I play on my iPod touch takes just a few seconds, if that much. You're right in the fact that the games aren't as detailed, but in my opinion, the iPod touch is built for "casual gaming".

Overall, as far as gaming goes, the iPod touch is much more suitable for casual games, but for hardcore gamers, the PSP will satisfy you. On the other hand, the iPod touch is capable of more detailed, faster, and higher quality games than the Nintendo DS. You also don't have to spend time switching out UMDs or Cartridges. The App Store is also a much better download store than Nintendo or Sony can offer. I do miss some games on the PSP, but I could never move back to it, because despite the fact that it can play GREAT games, it doesn't do a very good job of web browsing, web surfing, or any other non-gaming features. Same with the Nintendo DS.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go watch a YouTube video that someone sent me. It will take me 3 taps to launch the video.

[zhakidd532]

The new iPods are nice, and I'll probably get a new one soon, I've had mine for a while and it's time for an update. But 2 things that were the most important to me:

New iTunes. I've had it for almost a day now and I've had time to fiddle with it. It's really good so far. I've tried out Genius, which may seem stupid to some at first (me included) but it's actually really nice. I've had the chance to dust off some old songs in my iTunes I'd forgotten about. I don't need to think about playlists now, iTunes does it for me. And apparently it'll only get better. Having a blast with it.

And NBC back on iTunes. This was big for me. I don't watch a ton of TV. Basically sports and Heroes. I'm in college now and I don't really have any good way of watching since not only am I in class for the first half of the show every night and I don't have a viable TV to watch it on every week, but the streaming video here stinks, so watching it on NBC.com isn't great either. I'd much rather pay the $2 to just download it, so much easier.

[Jma11]

The Graying of Apple Computer:

The 1984 Super Bowl hammer throw TV commercial, served notice of a new age of Innovation and high profits for Apple. Forward thinking and the Buzz of surprise releases have bolstered their public persona ever since but now there is a graying under way. When Marketing starts to outpace engineering & customer support resources, the wheels start to wobble.

For Customers involved in business computing and networking for the last 20 or so years, the cycle is very familiar. Qualified, helpful technical support people are replaced by rule spouting customer service drones. The company then oversteps their design / configuration abilities, releases a flawed product line. The house of cards starts to fall in.

Such is the case with the display failures on the Macbook Pro (MBP) line of notebooks. One needs only to visit discussions.apple.com and review the display issues for MBP's: Blank screen... Vertical stripes... Display ripples... Display freeze... Weird screen... The grand total of posts to the first (10) pages on this Apple forum is 36,035 ! The worse news is that there are over 98 more pages, full of display issues and that is just for the last 30 days!!! That equals close to 400,000 posts in the last month for MBP display problems. When I called Apple on 9/6 related to the 3rd complete failure on our MBP in (15) months no one there acknowledged a real problem. Detailed questioning lead to my being cut off. Call backs and tier -2 techs stated plainly that they were unaware of such problems. I was told to just to give the unit to the Apple Store and/or complain to Customer Relations.

We own a MBP for very specific reasons, it does the things it does very well. When it is working it does those things but each time it fails I spend 5 hours on the phone and the MBP gets a week in the shop. So far we have not had a successful display repair. Apple refuses to replace the unit. I have owned, built and maintained personal computers of every stripe since the 80's. Have solved hardware and software problems large or small. I know when I am getting good technical assistance and when a Company is convinced it is more important than a lowly Customer.

[inter_loper]

Those of you who say the touch cannot compete as a gaming system remind me of all the people who said the same things about the Wii. People love the Wii because it uses innovative motion-based controllers and most of all because the games are fun. It's not for hard-core gamers, but it appeals to a lot of people. I think the touch has the same advantages plus the fact that it is a top-notch media player and internet device. I think the gaming potential is huge.

[Vorgamorth]

This is an excellent point, well-made. The DS has often outsold the PSP as well, although it is not as powerful, for the same reason. Better experience. There is something magical about the Touch/iPhone, and if you don't think so, give it to anyone whose never held one and watch their face.

As a support for your argument, look at the MAME community. If hardcore ultra spiffy graphics were the whole story, there wouldn't be a huge faction of folks dedicated to keeping 8-bit graphics like those found in Dig-Dug and Pac Man alive.

[dysonl]

The Wii's motion-based controller is innovative but it is also fun to use and versatile as a gaming controller device. A 3.5" touchscreen is not fun to use, nor versatile as a gaming controller.

[thefilebunch]

Nothing surprised me with regards to the iPods, iTunes, etc. What I really thought (or wished) was a monthly subscription plan for renting movies for AppleTV folks (like myself). Similiar to Netflix, you can rent a number of movies at any time; download them into your rental section of iTunes. When you are done and delete the movie, the next movie in the queue will diwnload into its position. This is really no different than what Netflix does, except you eliminate the mail time. I would pay a premium for a similiar plan just to remove the mail lag. Renting movies on a singular basis is very "Cable TV" on-demand. I beleive you would see an increase in sales of AppleTV and then folks would realize its other traits, such as music, photo sharing, etc.

[Seaspray0]

When you are the 800 lb gorilla, you can afford to sit on your laurels. Microsoft did the same with internet explorer once they conquered the browser war. Do you see the danger in that?

[Macbrewer]

Hey, all you Microsoft fanboys, don't get all excited because you think Apple is 'resting on it's laurels'. You don't want an iPod, fine buy a Zune. :-)

[Thomas, David]

iPod and FM radio ...
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MA070G/D?fnode=MTY1NDA0Ng&mco=MjMxMTg
That is a simple, small, elegant solution that allows iPods to use FM. To think this is some kind of hinderance means no one has actually looked at it. The way it is designed, you would no more forget, or notice it, anymore than you do your head-phones.

Time to move on about the FM argument.

[Thomas, David]

Of course, I personally wouldn't buy it. I barely listen to the radio as it is, and did not create a library collection of nearly six thousand tracks to turn on a radio.

[InklingBooks]

I keep hoping Apple will build an iPod touch I would buy, but in their second iteration, they only added only one needed feature, sound input. It still lacks:

1. A camera that'll do video and rotates to face away or toward the user, something that also should be true for MacBooks.
2. A built-in mike (For taping speakers and one less thing to klutz with when taking a memo.)
3. Full-featured Bluetooth, including working with their wireless keyboard, stereo earphones, and a Bluetooth mike.

Come on Apple, you can do better than this. An iPod touch should be as much like a laptop-in-your-pocket as possible.

[Alex Alexzander]

I just realized Apple charged me $206 (yes, two hundred and six dollars) per episode of 30 rock. And I bought the season of 15 shows, plus two other this morning. I found out later today while trying to make a purchase with my BofA Debit Visa that my account had been zerod out as a result of this. I had to go online to figure out why my balance was completely gone, but that's why. $206 per episode of 30 Rock.

So to those Mac fanboys that just can't believe Apple is blowing it right now, look at this from my point of view. MobileMe crashed and burned on us when I bought into iPhone 3G. The iPhone 3G only now with the 2.1 update works as it should have on the day of the release. iTunes on Vista caused all kinds of problems. And Apple's billing me $206 a show.

Take a guess at what verbs I'd like to type to describe Apple right now... I'd like to type them, but then, they'd just get deleted. I'm not at all thrilled with Apple right now. Now have I been for some time. And here we go again. iTunes 8 marks yet another launch failure by the company. And people actually choose the word, Quality to describe Apple. I have another word in mind.

Alex Alexzander

Now I wonder how long it will be before Apple returns the $3,502 is charged me for Season 2 of 30 rock.

Hey Aple, guess where my Apple TV is going to go after this mess is straightened out. Yeah, you got it buds. eBay.

Alex Alexzander