Comments on: N.Y. attorney general forces ISPs to curb Usenet access

Time Warner Cable pulls the plug on all newsgroups after Andrew Cuomo's office finds child porn on 88 of them. Verizon Communications and Sprint plan to limit Usenet too.

[exISPadmin]

Let me get some things out of the way first:

1) I am a TW subscriber.
2) I am an avid user of newsgroups.
3) This doesn't effect me as I use a third party Usenet provider and have for years. (Unless I misunderstood the Time Warner's position and they are going to start blocking access to port 119 - which is what some of the net neutrality discussion in the comments seems to think is going to happen)

At the end of the day, TW dropping Usenet is a non-event. This is purely an economic move, that allows TW to use the AG of NY as the scape goat - "Look we didn't want to, but he made us!"

It all boils down to money. Up until a few years ago TW maintained their own Usenet servers, which is a very costly and labor intensive setup. (Usenet feeds are massive and the spools are prone to corruption.) TW has since then outsourced Usenet access to a third party Usenet provider which still costs them money based on how many users access the servers.

So this is just a way for TW to save money on a system that hurts their bottom line (as it doesn't produce revenue for them) and effects a small portion of their users.

And if they block port 119... well... there is always going to be a third party provider allowing access on a non-standard port.

[chash360]

Its all about control, spying on Internet users and eliminating freedom and free speech. USENET was free open an the best example of free speech ever created. It was a perfect ideal, perfectly realized. I have managed USENET servers before, the cost is not that great, especially considering todays storage capacities. Its bandwidth consumption can easily be managed. It is easy to filter out porn, it can even be automated, as well as most of the other tasks, illegal images can easily be removed on a post by post basis without blocking groups. The NNTP protocol is stable and reliable, there is no potential for a compliant, text only, client newsreader to be infected with malware. They want to get rid of it because they can not embed advertising, track, identify and monitor users easily, spread malware, nor control the sometimes shocking truthful content. Specifically they are tired of the leaking of sensitive information, like how the war on terror is such a big lie, all of the evidence is right in front of everyone. Our military did try to stop them, they tried to stop and expose 911, but their control is already too great. They figure if they can get most of the troops off american soil and intrenched in a futile war they won't be able to stop the real terrorists (politicians and industrialists) that are here taking away your freedoms. They will get corperations to back them because they all want to be monopolies, gouging the public, and they will pay big money for the chance to control markets. How dare the original designers of the Internet (myself included) create something truly open and free, when you can charge gobs of money for it if you get control. Our politicians are offering up all of our freedoms, and quality of life, for sell to the highest bidders. They say trickle down, but in reality it goes straight back up to the top. We are heading towards facism at break neck speeds. The media is controlled, the Internet is not far behind. Pretty soon it will be out spoken people, and known activists disappearing without a trace. (it may already be happening, but how would you know without a free communication forum like USENET) You already know it won't be on the TV news. Control is the opposite of Freedom, when they take control, they eliminate freedom. It would have already been way to late, the world completely enslaved, if it were not for the Internet itself. Comunication IS Civilization, without it, we are helpless slaves to ignorance. Knowledge IS Power, and when that knowledge is held in the hands of a few we are doomed. Please fight them, stop them, because there maybe no recovery if we lose this time.

[Talamasca1]

TWC isn?t blocking squat!

They just aren?t going to host Usenet groups.


"jeffsimmermonTWC 38 points 8 hours ago[-]

Ahhhh -- the cool caress of reason. I am the director of digital communications at Time Warner Cable, and I'm really, really glad to see folks cutting through the alarmist hype here. We're not blocking access to Usenet nationwide -- we can't do that. We're not blocking access to anything. We're simply making the decision to stop offering newsgroups hosted on our servers -- anyone that wants to use Time Warner Cable to read Usenet groups hosted on other servers can do that unabated."


http://www.reddit.com/info/6mtzb/comments/

[JonGabriel]

GigaNews already censors newsgroups that contain child pornography. Such groups are simply not available through their directory download. An easy, simple solution.

They've been doing this for years. How is it that Time Warner Cable can't do the same?

[Lerianis]

I wouldn't be too sure about that. There are a LOT of newsgroups that I know, from experience browsing through them, that have child pornography or at least, child nudity (which isn't illegal) in them.

[Had_to_be_said]

A lot of people keep asking why the ISPs are doing this (and why they are doing it so crudely). It is very simple...

This has NOTHING to do with "Child Porn", what-so-ever.

I guess everyone has simply forgotten that, several months ago, the RIAA, rather publicly, announced that it fully intended to eliminate "Usenet" (just like they have been waging a war against "P2P" applications). Interestingly, when the RIAA, literally, DEMANDED that Congress do something to get rid of "P2P", they [the RIAA] trotted-out the exact same "Child-Porn" issue as the over-riding reason that legislators simply HAD to do something about "P2P". Congress didnt directly legislate the elimination of "P2P" (though they ARE still working on that), but... now... low and behold, ISPs -ARE- now "voluntarily", and "independently", "throttling" (and blocking) "P2P"... for all sorts of thinly-rationalized excuses (and to avoid the threatened, heavy-handed, direct-legislation).

Now, the target is the "Usenet"... And, the exact same rationalizations, and excuses, are being used.

Sorry to put this so bluntly, but... one last time (for the truly slow-witted)...

...Only the supremely-ignorant, actually believe that this has anything to do with anything, other than monetary, political, and control, issues... because, it certainly IS NOT, actually, about "protecting children".

[Magicland]

There's no such thing as usenet. Look , a three-headed monkey...

[atherworld]

So, I can't talk with my freinds because someone somehwere else is dealing in child porn? Why not just shut down the Net entirely? offer access only to the rich who cna pay for proof they're not delaing in Child Porn. First TWC messes up their upgrade, so now scheduled recordings are hit and miss ( so much for ever seeing how Magi-Nation ends), now they're limiting my right to discuss topics with my friends. Forums and Mailing List do the same? Big whoopie do. My friends aren't on them, are discussions aren't on them. Supernews, Giagnews perhaps? As soon as Time Warner pays for my access. I get it free now. I'm certainly not paying for it.

As soon as an alternative is available, my family's distching TWC. Way to keep customers, idiots. Perhaps you should try being in the business of making money, because your business model now is going to cost you money instead.

[Ray Weigel-2234497577447409954]

Slippery slope my friends. What's next? Gay literature? Black power literature? Conspiracy Literature? . . . This is not about child porn, regardless of what Andrew Cuomo wants you to believe. This is about censorship. . . . .Let's look at some of the newsgroups he's censoring:::: alt.british.drama. / alt.french.drama. / alt.binaries.battlestar-galactica / alt.binaries.goonies / alt.binaries.rock-n-roll / The list goes on. . . . It's interesting to note that Andrew Cuomo came into office after Eliot Spitzer was taken down by the morality of the American press (LOL). Eliot Spitzer was the country's premiere bulldog/watchdog, keeping an eye on Wall Street malfeasance. When Cuomo stepped into office, he said he wouldn't follow in Spitzer's footsteps - meaning he didn't have the guts or brains or ethics to go after Wall Street - but would instead go after the Lobbyists in Albany (an easy target) . . . But he didn't do that. His first major move was to perform a massive, blanket censorship sweep. . . . The Nazi's burned the works of Helen Keller and Bertolt Brecht. I guess those would fall under 'alt.drama.german' and 'alt.american.classic.literature'. . . . .This move does not save children, it merely turns us adults into children. Say no to censorship now, before it's too late.

[Lerianis]

Unfortunately, you are right. This is about censorship. The fact is that a lot of people want to see child pornography disappear off the internet because if someone sees it (as I have by accident) they might not find much wrong with it (as I didn't except for the VERY FEW things where a child was being raped, that sickened even me and that I reported to the FBI).
This is about censorship and about the conservatives trying to make pedosexuality go so far underground, that everyone will forget it even exists.... which will actually put MORE children in danger, because adults making love with children will NEVER disappear. One of the reasons why I support bringing it back into the open and legalizing making love with any child over 2 with the child's permission and younger than that with parental permission.

[ZiggyBoomBox]

Regarding TW's recent decision to no longer offer newsgroups I wanted to say that as a long time time warner customer I find this upsetting & disturbing. On their site you say it is because "Due to low subscriber usage Road Runner has decided to discontinue Newsgroups service as of June 23, 2008" but according to the attorney general that is ENTIRELY false. http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2008/june/june10a_08.html states that it was ACTUALLY because of an agreement with the AG. This is the first step in the slide down the slippery slope towards net censorship. While I believe that child pornography is obscene and one of the most vile imaginable abuses of another human being, it's like shutting down the phone system to get rid of the phone calls that deal with kidnapping or murder. We cannot allow the government to strong arm our freedoms in the name of safety. The are plenty of other means of dealing with this scourge of child porn without destroying one of the internet's oldest and easiest forms of public discussion. Needless to say this casts into doubt my longstanding view of time warner (road runner in particular) as the best ISP in the market.

[savagesteve13]

A typical response from poliicians who really don't quite understand technology, even ancient ones like USENET that have been around since the 1980's.

The problem is getting to the source of child pornography, much of which comes from a few people outside the United States. If they would just expend the energy to investigate who posts the stuff rather than shut it all down, then perhaps they might make progress.

The voice telephone is used to make drug deals, call in threats, activate sleeper terrorists, and coordinate organized crime schemes but nobody in their right mind is suggesting the telephone be eliminated.

[bman84]

The United States of America is all about censorship. It's about a few groups of people that want to control the whole world. Like censoring the radio and TV, they have accomplished that easy enough. You may think that censoring the internet would be a tedious task, but they have the power to do it. Think of where a lot of our laws come from, religious groups and moral seekers. Most of which have the money and the influence to create these laws. If you don't like what you see on TV, the internet, or radio than find something else to consume your pathetic life. And besides, people are just going to find another outlet to swap porn anyway. For every tactic put in place to prevent something, someone will find a way around it.

[JDAlmand1951ga]

What I want to know, is how *ONE* State (NY) can control so much of what happens through out the US. Yes we have a problem! But for one US State to dictate what happens in all the remaining US States, No this should not be happening.

If /Verizon/, or any other ISP, wants to comply with the wishes of one power hungry New York Attorney General, then let them block ONLY the traffic into and out of the State of New York.

But, if you really want to correct the situation, then correct Usenet and remove the offending Groups. Don't punish the many because of the excesses of a few.

JDa - (I am a current Usenet user)
--

Sincerely, | (©) (©)
JDa?© | ------ooo--(_)--ooo------
||| | /// \\\
d(-_-)b |
0

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| "Wisdom begins when you discover the difference between |
| 'That doesn't make sense' and 'I don't understand.' " |
| Children of God, by Mary Doria Russell |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Come by and see the fun:
New Weekly Walrus site: http://ww-wallpaper.org

[ZiggyBoomBox]

test

[tonynazar]

Welcome to 1984.

I wonder how long before the suits decide which news outlets are good for us, or where we should shop, or who we can send e-mail to.

Oh Canada...

[wolfhoundcop]

The gustapo is alive and well in NY. Shame on them. Innocent posters are being punished for the few. NY needs to get balls and go after these child porn posters, but it's cheaper and easier to have willing ISP's cut off USENET. After all this is making ISP's happy with an excuse to get rid of an expense and still charge the public the same price. Do you hear the ISP's stating that rates will reduce? NO!!!

I hope the ACLU has them (NY and Cuomo) for lunch.

I support the "non-posting" of kiddy porn, but you don't punish the mass for what the minority does. There are other investigative means. All this is accomplishing is driving the posters to another alternative. NOT TOO SMART, Cuomo.!!!

Does Cuomo even know what USENET is?

[davidtb--2008]

New York is 1st in Taxing the internet, now they're the 1st in shutting down Usenet.
and these guys call themselves Democrats.
Sad

[xprobinson]

It figures, those have been the companies that seem to hate to have customers that actually use their service. referring to them as bandwidth hogs etc.

Looks like now and in the future that if you want anything from your provider other than a connection that your best choice is to go elsewhere. I just read about this in one of the newsgroups after working 7 days straight, and found that all of the groups that I read are now gone from verizon... at least I was smart enough sometime back to pay for a premium news server, some are better than others. The best ones offer unlimited access, costs a bit more but it is worth it.

Also I have not been able to access the internet with WIFi either in Anaheim because that service is not working, and will be discontinued in July in Anaheim.

As to what I was referring to the Alt groups are the majority of newsgroups, and if you are looking for anything at all that exists it can be found there. Discussion groups, and file sharing of public domain software. I'm wondering if Yahoo, and Microsoft are going to dump mail accounts in the future? If so I'll have to look elsewhere, and send money to some company other than an internet provider for premium e-mail server...

[monarch$]

Are any of you as frightened about this as I am? No... not because of the child porn removal. I'd like to catch one of those S.O.B. pornographers and castrate him, force feed him his own "equipment", then rip his friggin' heart out! If it's a female, well, I'd have to figure something else out that's just as bad. That's how dead set against child porn I am! No... I was talking about our very own right called Freedom of Speech. Go after the pornographers, but leave the groups alone. Think I'm overreacting? This act is just the precursor of things yet to come. What's next? Remove the video game because it has some bad words in it? Force newspapers to close because a reporter says something derogatory on one of it's pages? Might as well "deep-six" the entire internet too. It's full of sickos, wackos, degenerates, criminals of all types, and people who speak their own mind (which may be offensive to some). This could go on and on and even [crossover] to include many of our other rights too! This kind of thinking will slowly, bit-by-bit, destroy the very fabric of our nation. Something must be done before it's too late!!! I'm telling you now... you'd better start paying closer attention.

[peltecs]

Child porn? Hahaha. You know Cuomo and the crooks pulling his strings are scumbags when they can't even tell you the truth. They pulled usenet because of the copywrite violations and bandwidth concerns.

[notsofast1999]

So, how exactly does cutting me off from groups like alt.recovery.* alt.support.* or even alt.tv.* save the children?