Comments on: House curbs 'virtual strip searches' at airports

Republican congressman's amendment curbing the use of X-ray and millimeter wave passenger body-scanning is approved, a blow to the TSA's plans for broader use of the controversial technique.

[bonesbautista]

In 1990 I took my first trip to Europe during a Christmas break in college, landing in the UK before heading to the mainland for a month. It was right around the time the US was planning to invade Iraq for the first time. Landing at Heathrow, it was the first time I'd seen armed guards in an airport at the ready. And I was traveling with a Persian friend from Iraq. Impressed and realistic about the situation, I thought nothing of it, being brought up in NY and with an open-minded perspective on being in crowded surroundings.

I like my privacy, but the nuts wanting to get on airplanes here in the US and wanting privacy and fast searches need to get a grip. The 1950s are long gone and the prudes, bleeding hearts, and body-conscious need to get real and be prepared for body-cavity searches or learn to take the train or buy tickets on an airline that allows for prudish people that want to take the risk of taking the 35k nosedive along with 200 other people and a willing crew and an airline willing to blow $200M on prudish people. Sheesh, the prudes and privacy nuts need to get with the program or buy their own airline.

[man_w_balls]

Lame.
If you care so little for privacy, get in line and prepare for your anal RFID implant. Bow to the masters who protect you from the boogeymen.

[Cheese McBeese]

I agree completely. Who cares if a 'reconstruction' might include genitalia? How does that matter? How does it hurt anyone? Our rights have been severely compromised by the idiots who cared that Janet Jackson bared a partially exposed breast during a Superbowl performance. Are we going to let our SAFETY be compromised by these same prudes? ***?

If people refuse to submit to these scans, they should not be allowed to board the plane. They have a choice. They can drive.

We're outlawing smoking in almost all public places because smoking infringes on other's rights to a healthy environment. We need to ban these prudish idiots from public transportation because their beliefs compromise public safety!

[mrbroncosfan]

Cheese McBeese, your comments are baseless. Comparing smoking bans to bans on full body xrays is ridiculous. Smoking causes second hand smoke, which is deadly and has been proven to cause Lung Cancer. A full body X-Ray is a completely different issue altogether. And frankly, I applaud this bill, as it protects our right to avoid an unlawful search and seizure. There is no reason to strip search (or an equivalent scan) unless there is reason to believe that the person has something concealed that is a violation of Federal law or poses a threat to the airport, it's staff, or the passengers. I'm glad you aren't a part of our government (although your ideals do coincide with those of many in the Executive and Legislative branches currently). When we lose our freedom of privacy, other freedoms will soon follow.

[johnsbrn1]

Some people will believe anything. I suppose you think that border checkpoints are for catching illegal aliens too. This machine will not make you safer. There are only two types of weapons that you can reasonably keep off of planes:
1. Metal weapons, like guns and "real" knives
2. Explosives
Metal weapons are already covered by the metal detector and explosives can be handled through the TSA's bomb sniffing machine (which could easily incorporate a metal detector if it doesn't already). This would provide a quick, unobtrusive and targeted search. When you get in the category of knives, just about anything can be made into a "shank". We can't even keep shanks out of prisons, so there's no way we're going to keep them off of planes. So what exactly is this thing supposed to find? If it's not weapons, and clearly it's not because there are much better and cheaper ways to do that, then it has no place in airport security. Airport security is not immigrations and they have no right to search people for "contraband". If you think these machines are necessary, then I challenge you to come up with even one example of something this machine would find that I haven't covered. Keep in mind you can very easily kill someone with a "shank" made out of a toothbrush and not even a machete would get through the reinforced cockpit door.

[rakker91]

You're all missing something: the terrorists who took over the planes did so using stuff that was perfectly legal to carry through the checkpoint. All of this technology wouldn't have changed anything.

Basically, they're assuming that everyone who flies is guilty and require them to get strip searches. Stupid. Instead, we should remove all security, just like it was 1950, and spend the wasted TSA money on developing real intelligence networks that can profile and stop the terrorists, instead of removing freedom from law abiding citizens.

Go do the research. Even with the technology and new procedures, TSA's own studies have shown that most contraband makes it through. One reporter even tried to get caught and couldn't. Airport security is a hassle and a joke.

[3tire]

hey manwballs and cheesemcbeese, how about allowing complete transparency to your hard drive and web habits to protect the children against possible creeps?
Just allow the random civil servant the right to see your web browsing whenever you get online on the off chance someone somewhere might exploit the innocents....
I'm sure you have no problem with their listening in to every phone call you make too. You know, to catch someone making plans against the government.
Also make sure you have to report your movements any time you travel interstate.
All of those ideas are FAR LESS intrusive than this body scan, so I'm sure you'd be all for those ideas.

[3tire]

oops, i meant bonesbautista NOT manwballs.

[brucefryer]

As if any of this type of screening will make us "safe". It won't. It's a waste of money. Read Bruce Schneier's comments:
http://www.reason.com/news/show/131103.html

[Lerianis3]

You hit the nail right on the head. The fact is that these screenings will not make us safer in the slightest. The best thing that we could do, and I really hate to say it, is to look at Muslims and people coming from Middle Eastern countries much better than we currently do, because they are the people most likely to be terrorists by far!

Also, chemical scanners and other 'bomb-sniffers' would make us much safer than we currently are, while keeping illegitimate infractions on people's human rights to a minimum.

Most of the things that the TSA and others have gotten us so up in arms about (bomb-shoes, people mixing bombs in airline toilet stalls, etc.) are NOT POSSIBLE to do in reality. Any people mixing bombs in toilet stalls would need a source of heat, and these chemicals give off ACRID scents as they are doing their things. Any people with 'bomb-shoes' on would be caught by the chemical sniffers. I could keep going on about things that the TSA had said that we have to worry about that just are NOT POSSIBLE in the slightest.

[ikramerica--2008]

At LAX I refused to go through the nude picture machine. They just did an SSSS instead.

The problems with the machine:
1. it takes longer (as does SSSS)
2. there aren't many, so they look for people traveling alone as doing a whole group would take a long time
3. it takes naked pictures of you and then asks you to trust they are "filtering" and erasing them

I said thanks but no thanks. I think that many who say it's no big deal, when actually asked to go through one, might have second thoughts. Or when they ask your wife, or your 17 year old daughter to go through? (see Airplane, or was it Airplane 2). Or your 12 year old for that matter?

Who would voluntarily submit themselves or a member of their family to a strip search without cause in other situations? You know you've done nothing wrong, have not been arrested, etc., so why should you allow yourself to be violated in such a way simply so the TSA can pretend they are doing something useful while not profiling.

[karpenterskids]

I agree COMPLETELY.
It's not fair to be strip-searched without cause.
It's a huge privacy violation at best.

[Hunnter2k3]

Here's a better idea, why not have actual officers trained to handle hijackings?
AND allow them to carry weapons?

Problem 100% solved. If the best weapon that someone can come up with on a plane (now) is some knife of plastic, they have no chance against a trained officer with a handgun. (and proper armor, of course)

Why hasn't anyone there came up with this very simple idea yet?
And if they have, then how in hell did they fail so badly?

[neighborhoodcomentator]

yes, for quite some time they've had "air marshals" on planes.

It hasn't failed.

A government agency just always wants to do what it does even better and spend more money doing it. Thus, we ought to have air marshals and naked picture taking devices. the only point of this machine is to catch people carrying a little weed from la to vegas. pointless.

[Migraine]

I would get in line for A RFID chip Now ! In fact if they made every one that was a real US citizen get a RFID ID chip they would not even need the full body scan, witch I would take over a pat down and strip search any day.

But with RFID I could have my ID passport, medical an financial info all with me and easy to access...

Just walk in a store be scanned and walk out , same for the airport or borders...

life would be a lot better

[tsi26]

No thanks buddy. If that were to happen I would no longer be a US citizen. That's just too big brother for me. Yup, life would be easier for you if you don't mind the loss of freedom.

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
~Benjamin Franklin

[MTGrizzly]

Your belief that RFID will bring all your 'information' together in one small piece of silicon embedded in your body is patently ridiculous. Most medical records aren't even online, (thank goodness)*. No one in their right mind would want all their financial information accessible with a simple scanner. Passports already have embedded RFID chips and they are no more convenient to use than non-RFID passports.

RFID chips do not have the capacity to store all the information you say they would contain. Perhaps, along with your RFID chip, you wouldn't mind the simultaneous implantation of couple hundred gigabytes of flash memory to hold this information. No person in their right mind would allow this.

The amazing thing, and what is extremely scary, is that anyone in America is so willing to give up all their personal liberties in order to cut down on the time it takes to go through airport security.

Anyone willing to put so much personally identifiable information in a RFID chip invites identity theft and/or data theft. I imagine the insurance companies would love this. They wouldn't even has to ask about pre-existing conditions, you would be forced to give all your medical information just by walking by a scanner. If I want to spend money from your bank accounts, I wouldn't even have to hack into a computer, I could get your account numbers by scanning you while you walk down the street.

RFID chips are not difficult to read and they aren't difficult to counterfeit. As far as encryption securing your date, don't count on it. So far, every data encryption scheme tried on RFID has been broken.


*Twenty-five years in emergency medicine tells me that immediate access to a patient's medical records in a life or death situation is totally unnecessary. Treatment that is performed to save a life is pretty standard, regardless of the history of the patient. Once the emergency has passed, so has the need for immediate access to their medical records. The current methods of accessing medical records are all that is necessary.

[RobotSheep]

I was in line for that scan and was asked to move to the next line so what if the next people in the scan line just happened to be 13 year old Vietnamese girls, I'm sure it was just a coincidence.did I mention they were twins?..I am not sure if they were identical or not, ask the guys in the booth.Was that steam on the window?

[spacedoubt]

Oh yes, those security people are waaaaaiting to see your 250 pound folds of flesh naked. Loosen up a bit! This is like saying I dont want any gynaecologists 'strip-searching' my daughter during a doctor's visit.

If this reduces the chance of someone carrying a weapon through by 0.0001%, I will take it.

[tsi26]

Wow, I can't understand why you are soooo scared. I just don't get it. Even considering terrorism, it is still safer to fly than drive anywhere. You must have lock yourself in your house to keep control of your fear. When did Americans turn in to a bunch of pansies? It certainly isn't the America I remember going up in. My objection to this technology has nothing to do someone seeing my naked flesh. Honestly, I could care less about that. What bothers me is that they treat everyone like criminals. Now I'm pretty sure, in this day and age, we are not going to let a bunch of box cutter wielding idiots take over a plane. I'm also pretty sure metal detectors and bomb sniffing equipment is 99.99% effective at keeping another 911 from happening again.

[Lerianis3]

tsi26, you hit the nail on the head. Spacedoubt is one of those idiots who does not realize that "Those who would give up freedom to secure safety, deserve neither!" That's a quote (maybe not exact) from Ben Franklin, and he was RIGHT ON THE MONEY with that statement.

Foreign terrorists have been able to kill a grand total of 6K people in this country in the past 109 years in this country..... that's less than 1/20th the amount of people who are killed in CAR ACCIDENTS each year in the United States.... not a big worry and not something that I personally worry about when I leave my home to go to the store or mall or even when I fly on a plane.
Fact is, if someone tried to take over a plane I was on...... regardless of whether they were armed with plastic box-cutters, knives, or guns.... I would damned well put them DOWN or do my damndest to.... if the people on those planes on 9/11 would have done that immediately, there might not have BEEN a 9/11 in the first place.

[spacedoubt]

By the way, Benjamin Franklin also said "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do."

[tsi26]

Benjamin Franklin also said "A learned blockhead is a greater blockhead than an ignorant one."

[David Manning]

I'm an airline pilot. My wife is a flight attendant.

I object to the government's position that virtually strip-searching my wife and I every time we go to work is both necessary and makes my workplace safer.

Employees in the industry KNOW where the weaknesses in the system are. This technology will just be the opiate of the masses so they feel safer. You don't think terrorists know they can just get a job at SkyChef to get access to airplanes?

If the government feels it is necessary to virtually strip-search everyone who wants to fly, why not safeguard everywhere the same way? We just had an abortion doctor killed in a church...let's strip search the congregation. We've had wackos kill students in high school and college...let's strip search all students and faculty. Hey...how many crimes against humanity have been committed in our own government? Let's strip-search every policy- and law-maker every time they go to work? Let's strip-search everyone who goes to a public venue (Superbowl, concerts, auto races, etc.)...will you feel safer? Or will you feel like the government, who is "here to help you," is interfering with your right to have a private life? Where will it end?

We HAVE to profile at airports to catch bad guys...period. Just like the Israelis do. No more patting down 80 year-old ladies and children. No more looking the other way when twenty-something middle-easterners have to fly. It's not racism...it's national friggin' security!!!

[tsi26]

It's nice to see some common sense coming from someone in the industry. I could only hope more people felt like you.

[karpenterskids]

Your post is so refreshing to read...David Manning for President, 2012!

[Lerianis3]

David Manning, I agree 120% with everything in your post, and I think that you would make a good next President of the United States... better even than Barack Obama, who has reneged on so many promises that he made that (even though he is better than Bush by far) I am thinking of supporting someone else in 2012.

[Endbringer]

@ Lerianis3

LOL. What has President Obama done so far that's different from Bush? Gitmo? Not going to close. He still uses Bush's authority for wire tapping. Nothing's changed except he's going to destroy our country by bankrupting us.

[enovikoff]

Finally we have arrived at the convergence prudishness and imprudence. It's no accident that we see a Republican who is given a catch-22 choice between the false modesty his fundamentalist handlers want him to advocate, and the needless irradiation of a fearful populace in service of redundant and unnecessary security. The machines don't increase security, and the privacy we should all be worried about is not between our legs but between our ears, and the government is busily chipping away at that. Notice that the discussions of illegal warrantless wiretapping of US Citizens has been swept under the carpet while we're distracted with blurry pictures of buttocks. Roosevelt's warning that "we have nothing to fear but fear itself" is turning out to be chillingly true, as our government manifests increasingly bizarre behavior in its attempts to address our fears.

[Lerianis3]

They aren't trying to 'address our fears'. They are trying to use our fears to take away our civil rights and human rights. Personally, I don't have a problem with someone seeing my naked body, I'm not a prude in any sense of the word..... but I will be DAMNED if I will allow my government to mandate a strip-search, virtual or not, of me when I go into an airline! I would rather stop flying first!

[eCurmudgeon]

No research has been done on what the long-term effects of these scans are, especially for frequent fliers with "foreign" features. Are you going to let these TSA morons roll the dice with your health just so they can play peeping tom?

[ferricoxide]

On the plus side, the mutant morons working around these things for 8-hour shifts won't be around to drain Social Security. =/

[degrees_of_truth]

I recently encountered this type of scanner while traveling. My main issue with current search procedures in general is that they are probably ineffective -- security theater -- while being ever-increasingly inconvenient and humiliating. For this new scanner, you are required to remove ALL items from pockets and your person, not just metallic items. They can't go much further without requiring passengers to exchange all clothing for a paper suit to get on an airplane.

[seespottype]

I agree with an earlier comment: there should be 2 two types of air service. Those willing to trade privacy for less risk, and those that value privacy over increased risk. My near disbelief of how quick my fellow Americans were to surrender their rights and renounce expectations of privacy (regardless of party affiliation) has mellowed to the realization that there's Live-Free-Or-Die folks and then there's You-Must-Protect-Me folks. Neither is better than the other, it just is. So let's not quibble - keep people separated.

Yes, I know, that's a bad joke. But to the topic of virtual searches. These are done to give the masses a sense of ease, correct? So why keep them private? The images should be displayed on a large lcd so that we all have the opportunity to verify that our fellow potential passengers are indeed weapon free.

[Lerianis3]

Actually, the 'Live-Free-Or-Die' folks are usually better than the "You-Must-Protect-Me" folks lately, unless you are talking about sexual morality.

[Hokulea]

This is just more "Security Theatre" that does little to enhance real security. It only yet another expensive boondoggle designed as a CYA measure for the politicians. On any given commercial flight there are thousands of pounds of baggage and boxes in the cargo hold that are not inspected in any way, shape, or form.

The TSA already ranks at the bottom of government agencies in terms of employee morale and job satisfaction. I pity the screeners that have to look at those images all day. Imagine the nightmares they must have.

[Applerod]

Part of the difficulty in assessing the efficacy and ethics of airplane security measures is that the discussion itself is predicated on the assumption that future terrorist attacks or attempts will involve airplanes. The only thing full-body scanning ensures is that passengers will not actually carry dangerous or prohibited items onto airplanes on their bodies, which some would argue is worth the invasion of privacy. The larger issue is how a free society (particularly in a large country) can never be free from the fear of attack, so it becomes a question of preparing and taking reasonable, rational measures without succumbing to a state of constant anxiety about what *might* happen--which ironically makes us more vulnerable.

[ResinNation]

It amazes me how many 'fraidy-cats there are in this country, yet at the same time most of these people are the same ones that will tell you how badass and tough America is. Kinda goofy. Now let's be reasonable (I know thinking is hard, but try to use that lump o' gray matter and really focus.)
No matter what, there will be risks with travel, just as there always has been.
Let's take walking - you can get blisters, twist your ankle, fall off a cliff, get mugged, beaten up, robbed, murdered, raped and thrown into a ditch. Yet with all of these risks, people go for walks every day - in fact, they have been for thousands of years with no one but worried mothers ever really raising much concern.
You could ride a horse - but you might get bucked off, break a leg, and crush your skull against a rock, not to mention all of the other dangers that go along with simple walking. Wow, that doesn't sound too safe either. Plus there's all those outlaws riding around out there, holding up stage coaches and all! Oh no!
How about a train? Well, that's no good - you could get derailed and die in all sorts of gruesome ways, or a head on collision. And the subway - forget it! Public transit is dirty and gross, after all, the public is there. You could get mugged, or thrown in front of an oncoming train, or slip down and step on that pesky third rail. Hmmmm... getting around is starting to sound kind of tough.
I know! We'll take a car and drive there! After all, we're Americans! We love our cars! We prove it by washing them in our driveways every Saturday and polluting our valuable drinking water with delicious toxic chemicals, and if that's not love then I defy you to tell me what is. Cars are the best and they are not dangerous at all. I mean sure, there's drunk drivers, poorly maintained roads and other cars, road rage, cell phones and texting, radio, heck there's television in a lot of them now, screaming children, and just plain old distraction and accidents - but are we going to let a few little risks stop us from enjoying the cars we love? No way!
The plain truth is, you're more likely to die in any of the above ways (well, not horseback riding...) then you are in an airplane or plane related death - be it terrorism, mechanical failure, pilot error or other catastrophic event. That's just regular old statistical fact that you could easily see is true just by looking at the death counts for any of the above versus air travel (however they probably don't keep track of the folks walking, but you know there's a ton of people that die walking every day.)
Life is risk, no matter what you're doing, no matter where you are, the unexpected can happen. So, rather then prattling on worrying about all the different ways it can happen, you can behave the way you do in your car - relax and enjoy the ride. Remember, that it's the ride and not the destination that count. Live a good life, be good to yourself and others, and know that even if you were to leave this world at any given moment you did the very best you could. It truly makes life much more enjoyable.
Now, if after considering all the above you'd still rather give up your liberties because you're afraid of the scary men with bombs and drugs, just let me know and I'll be sure to tell your mommies and daddies to check under the bed for the Boogeyman when they tuck you in.

[dirkrandal1]

Are there any pr0n sites that show what kind of images these machines can produce... I'm curious what everyone is so upset by. I recall the "nude" photos from Sony night vision camcorders a few years ago... the only people who were getting any thing from those just had a good imagination. (By the way... I do not think the dolts looking at these images at the airport have the same ethical standards as an OB/GYN -- as someone eluded to above.)

[luke_marsh]

I can see what all this means straight away.
Some glamour model saying to the airport security bloke year you'll have to pay for that sort of x-rated stuff now and that pervy teenage boy behind her with his compu specs on thinking year you just keep thinking that doll with a quick look at the other lady wal;king away via his hidden rear view mirror.

[donsms]

Anyone who hops on a plane today should be searched head to toe by any means currently available.Traveling by plane is not a right but a privilege and if this procedure weeds out just one nut from boarding, i`m all for it.

[Lerianis3]

Excuse me, but it is NOT a 'privledge', it is a right. It is a human right to be able to move around the world that you live in without having to be worried about being searched at every single turn for even the most FLIMSY of reasons, and you are automatically assuming that these things would keep a nut from getting on board a plane... it wouldn't!

You cannot tell a nut from a regular person by a body scan. Maybe if you were telepathic, you could do that, but NOT by using a body scanner, period and done with, argument over, shut up!

[sharmajunior]

If travelling by plane is a human right, then blowing one up with upto 300 people on board is a right as well....is'nt it?

[phil3566]

I was at SFO airport traveling to France last March. There was a long line of people going through customs. As I was taking off my shoes and emptying my pockets I noted that they asked a very attractive young woman to be scanned. In my opinion there were better choices.

[Lerianis3]

That is what I am worried about: that these 'strip-searches' will be used to satisfy the personal 'kinks' of the people doing the scans, by letting them get a woody from looking at a 2 year old in the body scanner or a 18 year old woman or.... whatever you want to put here!

[sharmajunior]

The funny thing I saw when I was coming back from a trip to the Caribbean was that the TSA strip searched 2 White Americans while letting the foreigner in front of them and behind them go. I think it has to do with their random number selection check system. If you are the lucky customer, you get to go in the strip search scanner...LOL