Comments on: EFF sues U.S. over NSA surveillance program

Suit names President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney in effort to halt what the group called the "massively illegal" warrantless surveillance of Americans' Internet and telephone communications.

[joetesta70]

Also, thanks to Google and Yahoo for helping the communist Chinese censor Internet access. The Republicans are traitors to the Constitution.

[Kwasiowusu]

@ joetesta70 : "Also, thanks to Google and Yahoo for helping the communist Chinese censor Internet access. The Republicans are traitors to the Constitution"

Ummm....98 percent of Google's political contributions went to Democrats, the biggest share among top tech donors.
The spyware peddling facists at Google are all Democrats. Blame them.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/02/14/technology/google_democrats/index.htm

[David Dudley]

And AT&T is not the only one doing this. It's likely that Verizon and Comcast for example are spying on their users for the sake of the government and with the existence of Echelon, this is absolutely nothing new, except for the fact that the EFF has hard evidence of it's existence.

This brings about a conundrum for modern geeks as we're all funneling money to these evil entities. Every time you buy an iPhone and paying your monthly subscription bill to AT&T, Verizon, Comcast etc, you're ultimately supporting AT&T and their domestic spying abuses. And as long as a Republican is in power, they'll make up excuses to keep their domestic spying going with phantom menaces and other mysterious claims that cannot be substantiated.

I love my iPhone, but I absolutely deplore AT&T and the hick CEO that runs it who bends over for the NSA.

[rcrusoe]

"I love my iPhone, but I absolutely deplore AT&T and the hick CEO that runs it who bends over for the NSA."

Unfortunately, all the major telcos/ISPs have grabbed their ankles. I've read that the NSA has a direct line to Verizon with access greater than that of Verizon's own sysadmins.

http://gizmodo.com/364435/whistleblower-says-the-feds-are-spying-on-your-verizon-mobile-phone-too

[Kwasiowusu]

@ David Dudley : "And as long as a Republican is in power, they'll make up excuses to keep their domestic spying going with phantom menaces and other mysterious claims that cannot be substantiated."

Nice try.
Lets just take a look at the massive wiretap program that took place under the Democrats under Bill Clinton shall we?

In 1994, Clinton administration Attorney General Janet Reno launched infiltrators, wiretaps, mail monitoring, and a wide range of other spying activities in a massive coordinated effort that included the FBI; the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms; U.S. Postal inspectors; the U.S. Marshalls Service; and other Federal and local law enforcement agencies.President Bill Clinton had acted decisively to fight what he and First Lady Hillary Clinton deemed the most dangerous terrorist threat facing America: conservative Christians
More than 900 targets of all this surveillance included the Christian Coalition, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Women?s Coalition for Life, Feminists for Life, Americans United for Life, the 600,000-member Concerned Women for America, the National Rifle Association, the American Life League, the National Conference of Catholic Bishops, and even then-Roman Catholic Cardinal of New York John O?Connor.

So don't talk to me about those 'bad" wiretapping Rerpublicans. At least the Republicans started these wiretaps after the biggest terrrorist attack in Amercan history, with threats of more tattacks to come. What excuse did Bill Clinton have?

[The_Decider]

History has shown that conservative Christians are the worlds most dangerous terrorists.

There is a difference between wiretapping with a warrant and wiretapping without.

Your tin foil conspiracies notwithstanding, Republican rule has brought the US to the brink of permanent decline.

[Kwasiowusu]

The_Decider : "History has shown that conservative Christians are the worlds most dangerous terrorists."

Naaaah.
History has shown that the one calling himselk "TheDecider" is the world''s most supid indidvidual, who makes the most moronic statements on this site.
And hey, tell your Al Quaeda pals we are gonna come take 'em out, ok?

The_Decider : "There is a difference between wiretapping with a warrant and wiretapping without"

I suggest you'de better check BJ Clintons' wiretaping programs, and the outrageous abuses that were perpetuated by him and his Attorney General Reno.
And oh, BTW, Google is still the world's biggest peddler of spyware.

The_Decider : "Republican rule has brought the US to the brink of permanent decline."

Is that why the US economy has outgrown that of the EU,m every single year of the Bush administration?

[jerico2day]

Oh no, religious fanatics are being spied upon? Whatever shall we do?! I'm against government surveilance, but anything the screws with the church is ok in my book.

[reddragon696]

I have to agree with you on that one Jerico2day. Organized Religion has done more damage to this world throughout history than any other person or group in existence and they just keep getting worse. Anyone who would dare to stand up to them is always denigrated by the loyal brainwashed religious fanatics. One would think that in today's world people would be more knowledgeable about the inherent dangers of these religious Organizations/cults instead of still blindly following where ever they are led.

[Kwasiowusu]

jerico2day : "I'm against government surveilance, but anything the screws with the church is ok in my book. "

And how are your Al Quaeda pals and 72 virgins doing, Mr. Zarqawi?

[HighwayHome]

This isn't a partisan issue - both parties have overwhelmingly approved of spying on their own citizens. They've tried to spin it with good intentions, but it's a difficult sell. It's like catching your house guest peeping into your bathroom vanity and then having them explain that they were doing it for your own good. You know, like using a bogus excuse "I wanted to see if you were taking any bad medicine because I am concerned about your health."

[krujaw]

Americans, hold on to your constitution - this mess that's happening with your country these days isn't just about the USA. It's about the true idea of freedom and democracy that's been and still being discredited by your own government throughout the world. Don't let your country turn into another empire - all empires fall. Don't let your fear guide you - one should be ready to fall for his ideas rather than corrupt them in order to stay afloat. Take example of Israel - they have been attacked way more frequently and, yet, they haven't invaded and indefinitely occupied any country (omit Israel itself) or executed any preventive attack on a country that's thousands of kilometers away from its borders. They leave space for negotiation, compromise and someday, maybe, understanding and acceptance. That's true political valor - ignore the fact they may have no other choice left by the arabs - one would expect from your country. Show the world some freedom and democracy, God damn it.

[ddesy]

There are plenty of us who want to hold on to the U.S. Constitution, but there are a large number who think that the world actually changed post 9/11. They don't seem to realize that terrorist attacks are nothing new and that this one just happened to be successful. The end result is that they want to force changes that they think will make them safer but in reality only hurt them.

[Kwasiowusu]

@ krujaw : "It's about the true idea of freedom and democracy that's been and still being discredited by your own government throughout the world"

Name me even one country on this planet, that has more freedoms than America. And don't even think of mentioning Europe. I lived in Britain for some years. Not only do they not have anything even close to the first amendment, they have nothing close to the second amendment or a lot of the feeedoms we enjoy in this country. And the British MI 5 intelligence service has been spying on the British for DECADES, long before Al Quaeda or 9/11.

@ krujaw : "Don't let your country turn into another empire - all empires fall"

Unlike Europe , the Britsh Empire, The Roman Empire, The Greek Empire, The Turkish Empire, etc, the United States had never had coloniy grabbing as a policy. We fought, spilled our blood to save Europe in WWi and WWII, then pumpded hundreds of billions of dollars to rebuild the European economies, and helped establish democracies there.

@ krujaw : "Take example of Israel - they have been attacked way more frequently and, yet, they haven't invaded and indefinitely occupied any country "

Ummm..Isreal invaded and occupied South Lebanon for 20 years.
Israel occupied the Sanai Penninsular (part of Egypt) for decades, after Egypt attacked Israel in the Yom Kippur War back in 1973.
Now why don't you check your fact s before you spew?

[ddesy]

You have an outrageously strong conservative bias, don't you?

[spkrman6]

Although the US never called them colonies, we have the modern equivalent, we call it a "military base", and have over 700 of these in over 130 countries around the world. There has never been a larger empire in the history of the world.

To those who wish to point fingers at one party or the other, they are both complicit in this spying on citizens. We have been deluged with a host of unconstitutional laws in the name of "security", supported by both parties, and our Constitution has been trampled for decades. Until America wakes up and realizes that the current political duopoly is an illusion to divide us, we will continue down the path to either Socialism or Fascism, with the end result being the same, a totalitarian police state. Quit voting for the "lesser of 2 evils", pick a 3rd party whose views most closely align with yours, and send the message that you are sick of our political circus. Your vote will not be wasted, you have nothing to lose.

[Central_office_tech]

Republican and democrat are both just titles. Governments have been over reaching since there have been governments. This isn't a left right issue. It is an ageless issue. The difference now is that technology makes possible what just 10 years ago was unthinkable. You are seeing a new oppressive regime rising up. It will grow with excuses about technology "changing things".

Quit defending the loss of your rights. Leaders have given reasons to their people since the dawn of time to give up their rights. Never once has it led to anything good. Terrorism is an ideal not a country. It is water through a sifter. These wars will only enrage new generations of foreigners. In the mean time we loose the freedom we prided ourselves on.

Slowly we are moving from computer users, to objects withing a computerized system. As more things integrate, GPS, Car, Cell Phone, Lap tops, you are directed what to do and not choosing. The controls are being built now. I.E. wire taping on a scale so large it encompasses an entire country. Those that spout let them listen, I have nothing to hide are ignorant to history. Oppressive governments only get more oppressive. The laws they can make you would think laughable now, till you live under them. Try getting certified to take your own child to the pool. Some in Brittan have too now!

[non_partisan_history_buff]

@Kwasiowusu - agreed in general with your worldview re: freedoms. Although many 'Europeans' like myself are glad that I don't have to endure many of the 'freedoms' of the USA. Instead I enjoy social justice, a smaller gap between rich & poor, welfare systems, healthcare, a lack of fear of crime (gun crime in particular) and the like.

Your history lesson is also well-taught, although be careful with your American history - American colonialism exists, it is just different and more modern and mature in nature, as befits a nation that is itself much younger than those you refer to. I wouldn't characterise Iraq or Afghanistan as colonialism-in-disguise, but look back in history to the Philippines (1899-1935), the Danish West Indies (bought by the USA, and now the American Virgin Islands), or even, during the period of the Marshall Plan that you mentioned so eloquently, the offer of $100MM US for Greenland.

[imhodudes]

If it's not encrypted, it belongs to Them.

End of story.

[kwilsonjr]

America is dead. This is some other country now.

[Benf]

And this news supprises you, if it does then you need to wake up, EVERY home phone call, cell phone call, text message and e-mail you send or write is up for grabs and most of it is scanned for key words, This is no longer the USA I grew up in, we have become a 3rd world country, the 911 terrorists and Osama have won,

[reddragon696]

This warrantless wiretapping is such a dangerous practice on so many levels. bush has abused his executive powers to destroy/curtail so many of our Constitutional/Civil Rights with impunity and there is no real hope that the next president will do anything to restore those selfsame lost rights or repair any of the damage bush has done to Democracy in America.

It is truly shameful that he will manage to leave office without being held accountable for his illegal acts, by Impeachment, against Us, The People.

The Congress has truly let us all down by refusing their Constitutional Mandate to defend the American People and the Constitution from these abuses and they should be ashamed.

If it weren't for such Organizations as EFF no one would be trying to protect our Rights at all and they should be commended for doing what our 'Elected' Politicians refuse to do.

[as901]

If the government has a warrant to tap or search, it is legal. Bush and Cheney were the first to do so in mass without any warrants. The Electronic Frontier Foundation is doing us all a service. To those who claim," it is for our own good", I will quote one of the nations founders.

"Anyone who trades liberty for safety deserves neither!" As a veteran who has watched men die to stop actions such as illegal tapping, torture and secret trials in other nations, I believe these men would turn in their graves to see America acting like this!

Mark Heiinemann

[_Smirk_]

I'm wondering when there going to adopt S.O.P.s ( standard operating procedure ) for every thing and to not follow them is ground's to be imprisoned. With so many laws dictating what you can and can't do ( & mandatory minimum sentencing ) it's only a matter of time before S.O.P's are adobted, and to get rid of all those pesky arguments that the supream court has to put up with. Just take Mc Cain ? In 1999, McCain did indeed tell reporters that he ?would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade.? But in recent years, McCain has repeatedly said Roe ?should be overturned.? But to prove your doing something wrong you need to be monitored ( or at least it needs to sound half way vailed when the neighbors see you halled off to jail ) and it would cost to much to do it any other way. Or possible with more advanced software a more automated way to watch city's with a camrea network can be worked out. When people stop caring if they lost a freedom here or a freedom there because they don't use that one or dont have a need for that one, so what do I care? It's like a little snowball at the top of the mountain, so don't complain when you get buried in an avalanche. Dont get me wrong I love my country and people I just dont like the dirction were heading.

[SpiritMatter]

The fundamental problem is that most of us fail to recognize that we all have the same potential to become selfish and self-righteous. If you give any human power over another, they think it is their obligation to control the other and make them conform to what they think is right, ?for their own good?. Pride of power, self-righteousness and fear become obsessions, and tyranny is always the result. Our founding fathers were blessed with the wisdom to understand this and incorporate defenses against it into the U.S. Constitution. It was self evident to our founding fathers that all men (humans) are created equal and endowed by their creator, not the government, with certain inalienable rights or freedoms. Some worry that freedom means anarchy. The freedom that our founding fathers established in the Constitution was moderated by the check and balance of the enforcement of equal justice and equal opportunity for all. The peace and prosperity we desire are the fruit of equal justice, equal opportunity, equal respect (not forced agreement) and equal freedom with a minimum of rules and regulations.

[ftwain]

For more information about this suit and some legal perspective, visit:

http://www.atelier-us.com/e-business-and-it/article/electronic-frontier-foundation-sues-nsa-bush-administration-for-warrantless-surveillance-of-americans