Comments on: Facebook 'gender policy' has grammar in mind

After years of grammatical "themself" limbo, social network decides to request that its members specify whether they're male or female, still letting transgendered individuals opt out.

[zfish7]

I can't believe this a issue, for the what ten transgendered people deal with it !

[ekesqueaky]

Interesting, they changed the article title from "Facebook 'gender policy' may have uneasy implications" to "Facebook 'gender policy' has grammar in mind"

[irondog1970]

As a writer, I'm perfectly fine with using the word "themselves" even when referring to a single person. Back in the day, "thee" and "thou" were not only the informal pronouns for the 2nd person, there were also singular. "You" is not only the formal second person pronoun, "you" is plural. English says, "You are invited to the party next week" are = plural even if you are talking to one person.

So, if we as a society can deal with "you" being plural even when addressing one person, can't we as a society deal with "themselves" even when dealing with one person.

That's just what I think. And thou has the right to thy own opinion.

[jonathanlukens]

Correction: "And thou hast the right to thine own opinion."

[lordeagle]

@irondog1970: if you read the article in full, you'd have realized that this is more of an issue in foreign languages (French, prob German) that in English.

[sittingonalog]

Call me cynical, but I wonder if facebook may be motivated by the potential for targetted advertising. When I listed my gender in my profile, I used to get ads promising to teach me to seduce women, and my female friends have complained of ridiculous weight-loss ads.

[tlcoles]

zfish7 may still howl in protest over the "liberal police", but I agree with sittingonalog. The gender-targeted advertising and the localization concerns may have been of more interest, sure, than anti-sexist, gender-sensitive ones. And, in fact, I think it will be the subsequent advertising that will drive this point home.

[lordeagle]

@wfish7: that's called being respectful of minorities. Deal with it!

[HAL-9001]

Maybe they could say "I have a Y chromosome" or "I do not have a Y chromosome" for their gender selection. This would be an absolute measure of gender with no possibility for error.

[Kinowolf]

No, "I have a Y chromosome" is a measure of sex, not gender. It says you have male genes, but doesn't say anything about what gender you live your life as. For example, many women were born with a Y chromosome that never activated during gestation, thus making them physically, sexually, emotionally, by every estimation, women.

Gender has to be an option you choose, or alternatively, one you can opt out of. Facebook did this right.

[sittingonalog]

@Kinowolf: Actually News.com has this wrong. For the most part, Facebook uses the word "sex" rather than "gender." The profile field is labeled "Sex:" and the blog post uses "sex" in all but one place.

[JennetteC]

Since this story is on Grammar, I need to mention the reference to ?transgendered" members. Sorry, but there is no ?ed? at the end of Transgender! When you add ?ed? to the end of a word it changes the word to mean something that happened in the past. You can only transform a verb into a participle that way, and ?transgender? is an adjective, not a verb. As a transgender woman, I get kind of picky about this. Thank you.

[honorable1]

For Jennette C: Your argument is fallacious, twice. Transgendered is perfectly valid. AND, You can't be a Transgender "Woman", You are either a "Woman" or a "Man", you can't have it both ways (no pun intended). You either Identify as a Woman or a Man.

From Dictionary.com TRANSGENDERED: "being, pertaining to, or characteristic of a transgender or transgenders "

From Dictionary.com TRANSGENDER: "Appearing as, wishing to be considered as, or having undergone surgery to become a member of the opposite sex. "

So, you are either one or the other. Choose one.

I can see 'the legislation now forcing websites to either not ask or include something like the following:

1. Man
2. Woman
3. Transgender Man
4. Transgender Woman
5. Somewhere in Between
6. Hermaphrodite
7. 'IT'
8. Shim
9. 'Pat'

[JennetteC]

Just because a word is in the dictionary, it does not imply it is also grammatically correct. In addition to the grammatical use of ED I mentioned, the GLAAD Media Reference Guide (page 8) and the Associated Press and New York Times style guides (pages 14 and 16) are additional resources proving my point. (Also, the term Hermaphrodite is very offensive; the proper term is Intersexed. Plus, refering to any person as IT is HIGHLY offensive. Again, see the sources cited above. This is not an attempt to be PC, just respectful.)
We are transgender women (or men) because that is what we are: At the chromosonal level we are male (or female), but anatomically female (or male). Facebook simply applied the KISS principle: Man, Woman, Prefer Not To Disclose, with no legislation required. Thank you.

[honorable1]

Sorry, but you are engaged in specious and fallacious 'arguing' yet again.
Exactly because a word or words appear in the dictionary, which defines the basis for proper grammar in which the very word(s) is/are used, that makes grammar what it is. There can be no grammar without words, and words are the roots of any gramatically correct sentence. You're right, the dictionary doesn't "imply" anything, it is accepted as FACT that the definition is exactly what it says it is and is exactly the proper use and/or meaning and/or spelling and or pronunciation that is offered therein. I say and/or because there is generally more than one use, spelling, pronunciation. I'm sure you find this fact unsettling.

Your argument is like saying that to pronounce a word a certain way is correct just because you say it's correct, when the dictionary conveniently gives you the phenomic spelling so that you know the PROPER pronunciation. Likewise, a definition is as society as a whole has used or is using a word and has agreed upon such in average daily language to the point that it is 'accepted' as a viable definition.

Finally, your reference to the "Style Guides" of various news organizations is laughable primarily because the A.S. and NY Times are among the worst offenders for improper grammar, spelling and punctuation. And to mention GLAAD doesn't prove your point, it just shows that you are a victim of the social engineering that they have been perpetrating since their existence to make their supporters feel better about themselves and attempt to give their 'cause' some form of legitimacy beyond their True purpose to force others to accept their choices in life. Twisting the meaning of a word does NOT change its definition. Calling day 'night' and night 'day' does not change the proper and accepted definition of day or night no matter how much you wish it did. Instead, it just makes you look foolish.

Your inability to understand this is quite acceptable, as it is a FACT that the average I.Q. in America is less than 100.