Comments on: Ning puts the handcuffs on porno networks

Adult content is no longer tolerated on the build-your-own community-site service; CEO Gina Bianchini says it's because it's difficult and costly to police and maintain.

[t424unow]

What does "sexually suggestive" mean? Are they going to do focus groups with participants wearing sensors that would detect increased blood flow to and/or moisture in the genitals while watching videos to determine this??

Catherine Zeta Jones is considered by many men to be "sexually suggestive" even while fully clothed -- are they going to ban her video images?

[Lerianis]

Yeah, that's why things like this make me seriously ENRAGED at these people.... it seems that things like this are not about 'policing adult social networks and the problems that go along with that', but are more about marginalizing people who like pornography.

[mangoman7]

Although I understand Ning's dismay at the [heavy] volume of administrative work the maintenance of adult networks requires, your approach seems lame from a business point of view.

According to partner-investor Mark Andreesen's blog justification of adult networks on Ning last January - http://blog.pmarca.com/2008/01/porn-ning-and-t.html - Ning was going to balance those needs with others. Indeed, i was happy to see Ning grow to become such a feature-rich, content-creation-enabling environment not only for adult networks but for all communities.

Now, however, that position is not being furthered and is being quickly reversed because "it no longer makes sense."

Gina and Mark: you are failing to use market/economic principles to resolve your cited problems with adult networks. Let's review your arguments....

"Adult social networks don?t pull their own weight." So price those costs accordingly.

"By having legal adult social networks on Ning, we?ve seen a rise in volume of illegal adult social networks." Filter all new adult networks - put all adult networks on watch for 90 days, with explicit guidelines for responsible operation.

"Adult social networks on Ning receive a disproportionate number of DMCA take down notices creating additional work for our team." Push this "cost" of doing business onto the network owner, who becomes responsible for policing his/her community: screening/approving videos, verifying copyright authorization, etc.

These are just initial proposals; many viable, profitable alternatives exist. The point I want to emphasize is that there are additional steps that Ning can take to moderate its adult communities while enabling freedom and business opportunities that Ning purports to empower. The evidence contradicts Ning's own founders aspirations - and that seems to communicate Ning's own MO as SOB.

In our particular case, I was planning to build out an adult network which would provide our non-profit organization a viable platform to reach gay & bisexual men, and then extend the Ning platform with web interventions: online counseling, professionally-moderated chats, peer discussions, and live medical advice. Because adult/porn content offers a viable way to attract & retain this audience, now our ambition to educate as well as entertain has been seriously impeded - we're back to square one: how to affordably achieve our plans.

Practical decision is hardly what you've made; it's always a philosophical one. The problem is that your philosophy has shifted, and is a sad precedent that you couldn't innovate and create a win-win solution. Instead, you've demonstrated that any future, sudden and capricious change Ning may decide to make won't be in the network creator's best interest.

[curamario]

Hi John. I am curious if you have found a solution for your challenge with the gay/bisexual network you wanted to build on NING. We were planning the same catering for the Caribbean Region

Mario

[gbswales1]

It is the defninition of an "adult network" that bothers me - i work for a university and we were trying to create a secure and safe forum - free of pornography and he like, for our Gay Lesbian and Transgender staff. We were to have a strict policy of no adult content to make it a safe environment that staff could also share with their families. We needed a private space outside of university websites because unfortunately many gay an lesbian people still feel vunerable. Ning provided the only site I know of where it could be totally private to the group and invitation only - something that you cant fully achieve on the likes of facebook.

I think the very least that Ning could do is to issue some kind of stand alone open source alternatives that we could use on external hosting not associated with the Ning network - or maybe this "social network" is just another business out to make a fast buck

Does anyone know of more liberally minded social networking sites that are - free, offer privacy, allow for a serious LGBT group and keep out commercial pornography - surely someone somewhere has the ability, courage and skill to start something like this.

I feel so bitterly frustrated at the inability of ordinary people to be able to influence the way companies behave - what is the use of freedom of speech if you have no where to speak

[FreeLottoPlayer]

Caroline my comment on your article is "thank you" it was very clear, and factual. To my fellow commenters. This should not be an issue. The company has every right to decide what content it allows on its service. Other services that are adult friendly exsist and users will simply migrate to those services. If you do not find one that suits you, start your own and run it any way you like.

Just my two cents.

[alicebee123]

I have a site on Ning that deals with adult lifestyles and education and I have paid Ning each month to host my site from the moment that I created my site. They did not stop from taking my money this month.

They have all of my content and data and block us from getting our code. Were talking about thousands of members submitted photos, videos, blogs, forums, member pages and comments and so much more. We have worked long hours to bring out honest truth about different types of adult lifestyles. We were there for ning when they started and now we are getting a bad rap. Its the adult web sites on Ning that kept it going now that they raised Million of dollars they are trying to clean up their act.

Gina from Ning give us a wonderful Xmas present ... We have no site any more and no where to go. Not all adults site on Ning are porn but were all going ... what will we start burning books again?
This is what Ning sent back to me when I asked about my content. You tell me if you think this is fair 30 days to find a new home and will they give us back our content and how will we be able to integrate it on another sever? Ning was not free we paid to put our sites there and they welcome all of our adults sites with open arms and now what we got was 30 days and get out without any of our content.. Is this fair????

E-mail back from Ning
December 3, 2008
[The Ning Team - 12/02/2008 06:24 PM]

Regardless of the services you have purchased, if your network is of an adult
nature it will be removed on January 1st, 2009. If you'd like to keep your
network running on the Ning Platform, you're welcome to make changes so your
network no longer falls into our definition of adult network. This includes
removing any and all adult content from your network.
An adult network includes, but isn?t limited to:
? Pornography
? Depictions of sexual acts
? Sexually explicit or obscene themes

These changes take effect on January 1, 2009, so you'll need to make these
changes before then.

Please let us know if you have any further questions.

Best,
The Ning Team

[fitOlderMen]

<p>This is what Ning writes in their TOS</p>
<p><i>"Subject to this Agreement, as a Network Creator, you control your Social Network and own all of Your Code and Your Content."</i></p>
<p>via <a href="http://about.ning.com/tos.php">Ning: About: Terms of Service</a></p>
<p>The problem is that Ning has changed their APIs. There is no way to get "your content" out of the Ning system anymore. <a href="http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/08/22/ning-shuts-down-premium-developer-widgetlaboratory/">External developers</a> who had solutions to do that have been removed from Ning. Right now network creators only can export member data via an CVS export. Content like videos and photos are stuck in the system for the time being.</p>
<p>Ning is suggesting in this blog post</p>
<p><i>"As part of this transition, we are exploring ways for adult networks that will no longer be available on Ning to export their content in addition to their members, which is <a href="http://help.ning.com/cgi-bin/ning.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=3023&amp;p_created=1215721667&amp;p_sid=R*dgZjkj&amp;p_accessibility=0&amp;p_redirect=&amp;p_lva=&amp;p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9NDA1LDQwNSZwX3Byb2RzPSZwX2NhdHM9JnBfcHY9JnBfY3Y9JnBfcGFnZT0xJnBfc2VhcmNoX3RleHQ9ZXhwb3J0aW5nIG1lbWJlcnM*&amp;p_li=&amp;search_method=">readily available today</a> from the Manage Members page. As we make progress on the specifics, we?ll communicate them in the <a href="http://help.ning.com/">Ning Help Center</a>."</i></p>
<p>Hopefully this problem will be solved bevore January 1st 2009. Otherwise adult network creators have "owned" content but never got a chance to "get" it.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.fitoldermen.com" target="_blank">fom</a> - fit older men</p>

[dctechguy]

Ning's new policy is a classic example of a company caving into pressures (real or anticipated) that could affect their ability to raise capital or that requires intelligent sales and marketing communications with revenue sources. To say that advertisers object to adult sites is ridiculous. Certainly Ning does not randomly distribute ads across its networks. I am a member of an "adult oriented" site that uses Ning, and the ads certainly do not come from Proctor and Gamble or Kellogg. They are appropriate for the site and audience.

More likely, as sexist as it may sound, Ning's female CEO is uncomfortable when dealing with adult oriented sites. After all, many feel adult sites perpetuate the objectification of women, open the door for child pornography etc. Ning simply does not want to build in the review/safeguards required to screen out illegal activity. Instead, they are taking the easy road through censorship, rather than upholding the American tradition of Freedom of Speech.

Even the Supreme Court has not defined what is considered obscene. Apparently, Ning's management team has greater insight than the US Supreme Court.

This is classic big telecommunications company policy. Having worked for a leading telco and a web hosting service where adult content was ultimately prohibited, I have witnessed how big business interests will ignore fundamental personal freedoms to maintain their image of wholesomeness. After all, it makes lobbying the FCC and Congress so much easier.

Obviously the fundamentalist religious groups have continued to have their influence on what we can say, hear, and do in this country.

[dantynan]

this is a money thing, pure and simple. mainstream ads will bring in bigger bucks, but only if the naughty stuff is nixed.

of course, youtube and ning built their initial audiences thanks to the naughty stuff. see my blog, "today's internet is brought you by porn" for more on what this really means.

http://blogs.computerworld.com/youtube_porn

cheers,

dt

[luis_carbajo]

rSitez (http://www.rsitez.com) is one of the leading white label social networking platform and a competitor to Ning. Because of this we have received a number of questions regarding Ning?s action to shut down its ?Red Light District? of adult sites. Questions have been mainly regarding our position on this topic. We have a different approach. Therefore, the following is where we stand on the subject. Check our blog

http://socialshakers.com/2008/12/03/ning-shut-down-adult-networks-sites-search-for-new-home/

Thanks

[BEEYOUTIFUL]

NING did the right thing, Im browsing the Ning last year and I could be a five year old. the Porn sites last year was easily clickable and voila ! Full videos of Gay sex and all the xxx rated body parts. I could find ten of them easily with no age verifications, and these were popping up when Im looking for Esoteric Relgious groups! I wasnt even typing in any porn words ! Too easy for kids to look at. And gimmee a break, With any level of intelligence, I think people know what real porn is compared to a naked statue from Greece. you do know what the words spread shots, gang bangs mean dont you? , Gimmee a break, and THINK people !! You have the rest of the internet for porn, Its just like women wanting to pick up a machine gun and complaining if its harder to get into the military, You dont need to push your way everywhere, Soon youll be demanding that public sex in the streets be legal for free expression. We need to protect the kids, and youtube and Ning couldnt accomplish this in the few years past until now.