Comments on: Debugging Windows crashes with minidumps? Not at Lenovo

When dealing with a blue screen of death, Lenovo technical support won't look at minidumps or event logs.

[hate_the_game]

I have hated this game for two decades.

Most recently I was talking with Marvin at Dell. My friend has an Inspiron 9200 and it was BSODing on boot. Most specifically on loading the video driver. So being the good little technician that was. I decided to trying boot the system in safe mode. As we all know safe mode will load the generic windows vidoe driver. Guess what, it BSODed there too. Hmm has to be hardware but let me check the web and see what that code means. Sure enough MS support was pretty non-commital, said it could be hardware but that it was probably the driver. (Wrong, I tried the generic VGA driver. Must be hardware.) Since my friend has complete care I call Dell. Marvin answers. His default answer? Reload the OS. "You have got to be kidding", I say. "No it is the driver", he says. I told him what I did an he insists it has to be the driver. He and I argue about this for AN HOUR. Finally in frustration I agree to reload the OS. I back up all my friends data to my laptop, by removing the drive and putting it in a USB chassis, and I reload. Guess what? Yep it still BSOD's. I call Marvin back and basically rip him a new one. I tell him to get someone out here to replace the system board. He still argues with me. Finally in complete frustration, I ask him how long he has been doing this. His answer? "A couple years." I litteraly wnet crazy on him, and said, "Well I have been doing this stuff for a couple decades. Send out the tech with a new systemboard!!!" I think he got the idea. Next day, new system board and no more BSOD. Hmmm Marvin who was right on this one?

[nickerbocker79]

At work I have decided that I will no longer call tech supports. I submit via online support. They generally respond to you within 24 hours and you don't have them telling you to go through all the troubleshooting that you already did. Plus no hold times. ;)

[ss_Whiplash]

I had to laugh when I first started reading this article. The fact that you even know what a minidump file is makes you more qualified that ANY first level tech support I've ever spoken to in my life.

[protagonistic]

It is not just Lenovo, it is Tech Support in general. I recently had one of the two drives in my Maxtor OneTouch III go bad, the month after the warranty expired I might add. I also chose to use email support as I had already cracked the case and replaced the drive with a larger capacity drive. But since it did not see the extra capacity I wanted to confirm that it was a firmware matter.

Anyway, in my first email I clearly stated the what the drive was, it was out of warranty and that I had already replaced the defective drive. The reply simply restated the information I had already given. I replied that I had already told them that and again asked my question. I received a reply saying that I shouldn't replace the drive as it would void the warranty. Uh, excuse me but I already told you it was out of warranty.

So I fire back a third email requesting that maybe they could have someone read my messages that actually knew something about the HW in question. I really was surprised to get an answer from a senior support technician who actually did understand my question and answered it.

Final resolution was that I purchased a new external case with an actual physical jumper block for configuring how it saw the twin drives in the case. Dual moral here is that when buying external HD's cheap is not the way to go and Tech Support pretty much sucks when it comes to computers.

[RicABlair]

With all due respect, tech support is low hanging fruit. It's old territory and everyone's been there and done that ad nauseam. Complaining that tech support folks don't know what minidumps or event logs are is just further nitpicking--those guys probably think a minidump is a tiny ****! No one at tech support ever helped me in any way, so after being patient, helpful and wasteful with my support dollars for many years, I now simply don't call them anymore and avoid any aggravation and anger. I just hope someday manufacturers eliminate any support, pass the savings to the buyer and just let each buyer pay for support by contract or at a local brick and mortar store with a live tech support person who can be accountable for his advice. BTW what is your point in surveying which companies have support personnel familiar with minidumps or event logs? Are we to buy only from these vendors? even though most products may never have a problem related to minidumps or event logs?

[dskwire]

Well, folks. you are all right. The mini-dump should provide sufficient info to debug the problem on its first occurrence. Other vendors, other platforms have better dumps (no names please). There are options to get a bigger dump - maxidump, or whatever they call it. Plenty of formatting stuff these days at Winternals. Although, friends, for my tastes, the formatting is beautiful, the content, even for the 'ANALYZE' verb, is miniscule. I have worked with platforms where the goal is 'first-fault' problem resolution. Period. If you can't figure it out on the first error, the vendor accepts (internally-generated AND externally-generated) BUG REPORTS! Yes, there is a commecial coming. I have started a business, based on my almost 40 years working with computers (yes, Virginia, they existed before Bill Gates was born): www.FirstFaultProblemResolution.com

You just need to EXPECT a problem to occur, and prepare to set up for it. I have set up my new Vista environment (whaddayoucrazy?) to take full dumps. I should activate a performance monitor too. Anyhow, I thank you for allowing me to preach to the choir, already singing the hymn I am thinking of...

There are add-on products to handle first-fault problem resolution, like BMC's AppSight (not for the home gamer however).

It is nice to solve a problem on its first occurrence, isn't it? Even if you don't have a million-dollar business running off it, just your home life, finances, email, investments, games, businesses....

I will do consulting for money (see my website), or as you can plainly see here, just for grins and giggles.... Good luck you crazy folks who don't think do-overs are mandatory....!!!

What I am REALLY looking for is the call from Microsoft to help them design a software 'black-box' (data recorder like mainframe software trace tables)- their event recorder is not sufficiently fine-grained - kind of a weak magnifying glass, you know?!

[mhinnewyork]

To: hate_the_game
Determining hardware vs. software as the root cause of a problem is not easy.
In your case, I would have made a disk image backup of Windows before deleting anything. Even if Windows can't boot, there may be a minidump for the crash that can be retrieved by booting with a Linux live CD.

To: RicABlair
My point wasn't that the technician didn't know what a minidump was, but that corporate policy does not allow Lenovo tech support personnel to have files sent to them, files specifically designed by Microsoft to aid in debugging problems. I fully understand your giving up and not even bothering to call, but maybe, just maybe, some company will actually know what a minidump is, accept it from the customer and review it. If such a company exists, I hope someone will let me know. It's not much to expect.
Michael Horowitz

[alegr]

Dude, just go to control panel, Computer (simply hit Win+Pause/Break), Advanced, Error Reporting, Enable error reporting. Next time you get a crash, the crashdump will be uploaded to MS and you might even get a diagnosis and a suggestion which driver is responsible.

You can use WinDbg to read the dump (free download from MS), but if you don't know what WinDbg is, it won't make you any good.

By the way, bugcheck 1A/41284 is "A PTE or the working set list is corrupted.".
Bugcheck 1000000A is a variant of IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL. Usually a crappy driver

The first one tells that you have some driver that is very intrusive to the system. Uninstall your antiviruses. Yes, I mean it, most are crap, especially Sym***. Change your user account type to "Limited user", so you won't have to be afraid of viruses.

[hate_the_game]

To: mhinnewyork

Obviously you didn't read my post that closely. If the manufacture spcific driver fails, and the generic windows driver fails, it is that device. Given that it was the video driver that means there is a system board problem.

What it comes down to, is that these guys are paid to get people off the phone and not deploy the field tech. I am sure my 2 hours on the phone with Marvin cost him dearly on his metrics.

Face it take the guy with 20 years experience word for it and don't argue with them.

[Smetelko]

I just spent two hours with six techs at Lenovo on this exact problem. #5 who asked me to send him the diagnostics from the toolbox mysteriously disappeared and #6 told me to close the toolbox and wanted to reset the computer. I declined. In this economy, tell me why service would be so poor unless it was a deliberate corporate policy? I can't recommend Lenovo to my customers and I'll get my Network manager to fix this problem. Pathetic.