Comments on: Follow your muse, Microsoft--get out of hardware

Microsoft's Zune initiative always felt more like a calculated commercial play, not something about which the software giant felt passionate.

[toosday]

It does suck, especially because I don't think anyone - not even Sansa - has the resources to take on the iPod. Granted, the iPod Touch is great because of it's apps and such, but Apple hasn't had any really big innovations on the MUSIC end of the iPod + iTunes ecosystem in a really long time. They're just about to get around to offering 256 kbps songs, whereas digital, DRM-free stores like Lala (which does more than just sell songs, but also allows you to listen to full samples - instead of just 30 seconds samples) are already offering some 320 kbps. Of course, this doesn't matter to many, but it's just a small example of how far iTunes has been left behind in the music innovation factor.

Zune has some great things going for it. If it were Mac-compatible, I'd be very willing to give it a shot, since I love the idea of being able to subscribe to music and keep 10 songs per month. The reason: I just deleted about 2 gigabytes of music from my iTunes collection that I realized that I haven't listened to in years - and never had the interest to listen to. I was also hoping to have wifi in iPod Nanos. Without devices like Zune pushing at Apple's door to do so, I doubt they ever will. (Just think how killer the Zune's song sharing feature would be on an iPod.)

Oh, well... I hope the Zune sticks around. Sansa's good and has good marketshare, but I can't imagine the device growing much more than it already has. Sansa just seems to be in the space because they can. At least the Zune team seems to have some passion about music.

[BigGuns149]

I remember buying the first gen Zune and I frankly didn't see much value in the whole wireless song sharing concept. It seemed more gee whiz to me.

I will agree with you that Sandisk has a pretty good product going with their Sansa. With the decline of DRM on iTunes one can purchase virtually any of the tracks on iTunes now and put them on your player of choice so the whole iTunes advantage has vaporized. With the exception of there being a better selection of accessories for ipods there isn't much going for buying an ipod anymore especially for those not interested in the ipod touch. For the low end market Apple's products typically cost more, but don't offer any compelling advantages. Buying one of Apple's low end models is a bit like buying a luxury brand car that doesn't have a high performance engine, leather seats or a high end stereo system. You are essentially paying a premium, but not getting much to show for it.

I differ with the notion that Sandisk can't compete with Apple. Sandisk is making some very compelling low end players at very competitive price points. Now that Apple has removed DRM from most of their iTunes tracks they have unbundled the benefits of the iTunes library from the iPod. If you like iTunes you can now buy music from iTunes, but not have to use it with an iPod. In our poor economy I have a feeling that we are going to see a lot of people who are going to stop and consider what benefits an iPod has over a Sansa and they are going to find that beyond a perceived chic factor there isn't much going for the iPod anymore.

[contentcreator--2008]

Not out of mice and keyboards, please. Microsoft's offerings there are very good. The split keyboard design is better than Logitech's, have both. And the thought of having to use one of Apple's "Mighty Wind" mice on my Macs is too much to bear.

The XBox is hardly a throwaway. But the Zune---who worries about it anyway?

[Perry_Clease]

I agree and I am an Apple FanBoy, I really liked my MicroSoft mouse.

[BigGuns149]

I personally prefer Logitech for mice because I think the designs feel more natural to me, but I have gotten a lot of years out of mice from both Microsoft and Logitech so I don't really take any issue with someone disagreeing.

I wouldn't see why Microsoft would get out of the business of selling mice and keyboards. It has been a fairly profitable business for them.

[Penguinisto]

Guys? Most MSFT branded mice and keyboards are just re-branded Logitechs anyway. Why not just go to the source?

(For mice, I'll keep my Razer Diamondback, thanks much. :) ).

[MarkKB]

@Penguinsto: [citation needed]

[john55440]

During Christmas Shopping Season, how much money did Microsoft spend on Zune advertising? Not much. It's no wonder that sales plunged.

Zune *isn't* a "me too" device that copies Apple:

Wireless song sharing was a cool idea, but the record labels wrecked it by making it too restrictive.

Zune wasn't the first to offer a subscription music service, but it's a good feature that Apple doesn't offer.

[pithenumber]

cool ideas, not put together properly
I like Zune, but there's something missing
MS needs to take the concepts of Zune and unify them, right now Zune feels like a bu

[tehrani625]

I would say yes, the Zune is a "Me too" device in every way. It did try to innovate with wifi and using it in a new way but that was crippled with DRM on songs that didn't have DRM. I really like my iPod, it works and I only have a bunch of complaints about apple's software. I think that apple is ok but I wish that they would just focus on the music end of things. I would love for some new ways to organize and find new music. I would also like someone to start promoting audio quality. Such as improving the amp circuitry in the iPod.

[TheSmellyMoa]

The Zune was embarrassing to behold. It was the consumer electronics equivalent of William Hung, the Chinese guy from American Idol who got thrown off the show after yelping out an excruciating rendition of "She Bangs". He, too, refused to give up. He, too, had a website. He didn't have, however, $60 billion to entertain his bizarre belief that he had anything to offer besides comic relief. Thankfully, he had to back and finish his university studies. The Zune haunts us still.

[BigGuns149]

Especially the first generation Zune felt a bit bulky, but I don't agree that it was that bad even though I didn't keep my Zune.

[SkateNY]

It?s truly fascinating when a company as large and as influential as Microsoft can tell their church-goers that everything is ?fine? with a product that loses 54% of revenues over the course of a year. That tells us something about Microsoft, but it also tells us something about Microsoft customers and investors, so eager to believe that what is false is actually true. Many of us read their delusional beliefs on the Web on a near-daily basis.

I don?t doubt that many or even most Zune owners are satisfied with what they have. Here?s my thing: Apple dove into the MP3 market when that market was already well on its way to maturity. The iPod quickly made a big splash, and iTunes has played no small part in helping the iPod acquire a 70% market share. Apple did not engage in illegal, monopolistic business practices in order to achieve that level of prominence; nor did Steve Jobs hypnotize buyers, steering them towards the iPod.

When the iPod was released in October of 2001, it succeeded during a recession caused by the terrorist attacks of 9/11. If the current economic climate adversely affected the Zune and other consumer products, then it stands to reason that it also adversely affected iPod sales. Yet, Apple reported a growth in iPod sales for the most recent quarter, versus a 54% drop in Zune revenues. How much better would the iPod have faired this quarter without the deepening recession?

I believe that Microsoft and its investors need to re-evaluate the Zune with regard to how it affects other products, and how it affects shareholder interests. If I?m a Microsoft competitor ? and I don?t believe that Apple and Microsoft compete in the sense that they appeal to very different groups of customers ? then I truly hope that Microsoft continues to throw money and other resources at the Zune. Let them and their investors learn the hard way. Again.

[slecalvez]

Microsoft Mice are the best by far!

[TheSmellyMoa]

Here's an idea the Boy Fuhrer from Duncan Hines may find compelling: Zune would make a great kitchen utensil if you glued a handle to it.

Microsoft stay with the Zune! I think they are very good. The zune will be one of my options when its time to replace my 5th gen ipod.

If anything, they need to make their software for the Zune better. One big reason people go ipod is because of itunes.

[Kev_Orng]

For one thing, they could make it cross-platform. I would have considered a zune if it was cross-platform

[gmcbay]

Even if you're right about the Zune, you might want to rewrite the headline and various bits of text in this article to "get out of the music hardware business" because the Zune is hardly the only hardware Microsoft produces.

As others have mentioned, Microsoft produces great hardware in the computer input space (keyboards, mice, gamepads) and while the Xbox 360 has had some well known quality assurance troubles, I certainly would hate to see Microsoft get out of the console hardware business since the "total package" the 360 is a piece of (Xbox Live, the game ecosystem the 360 has built up, etc) is fantastic and the new revisions of the 360 hardware are much improved on the quality front.

[GajaKannan]

I got a zune as a gift and at first, I thought may be I should put it on eBay and buy an iPod. I am so glad I did not. Form factor from zune to ipod is not much different. Secondly a monthly subscription to hear any songs you want and keep 10 songs from that is a great value. But hey, I look for value on my purchase. So it is a steal. My friend got a Zune and his wife got iPod, now they are looking to buy Zune for his wife because of the value she sees in Zune...
BTW, what can make Zune really take off... Well if it finds the sweet spot of being a MP3 player, Video player and a hand held gaming system (borrowing XBOX roots) then they got a good shot in kicking iPod's, PSP and Nintendo DS... Microsoft are you listening...

[Penguinisto]

"BTW, what can make Zune really take off... Well if it finds the sweet spot of being a MP3 player, Video player and a hand held gaming system..."

You mean like an iPod Touch does right now?

[Kev_Orng]

Long after the Zune is dead, people will be saying "What would have saved the zune is feature X, Y, and Z" and someone else will say "You mean like an iPod Touch?".

That's awesome

[TheTiredGuy]

"BTW, what can make Zune really take off... Well if it finds the sweet spot of being a MP3 player, Video player and a hand held gaming system..."

You mean like an iPod Touch does right now?

Yeah, except the iPod Touch doesn't have an FM tuner (which I i really like about the Zune, and pretty much every other player has nowadays).

[aka_tripleB]

What Microsoft really needs to do (Okay, what I want Microsoft to do) is put .MS-DVR support on the Zune that allows me to put digital OTA recordings on it. I don't get a chance to use my Zune as a video player, but when I do use it, I don't want to have to jump through hoops to get shows on the thing.

[kelmon]

What I still fail to understand is why Microsoft thinks that it can take on the iPod but yet only sell the Zune in the US. Can anyone explain the rationale behind this decision of the past 2-years+? Utter madness.

[Kev_Orng]

We have them in Canada now. My neighbour has one. But he just got a MacBook, so I'm sure he'll be calculating its resale value pretty soon once he gets fed up with it not being cross-platform. I'm sure he'll ship it to another country if someone wants it.

[ausernamenoonehaschosen]

So many people who love everything not apple have to always chime in, scared that there player will be discontinued. People are buying iPods because they are highly rated among the tech magazines and newspaper reviewers, and people tend to trust these reviewers (this is also the reason why Samsung TV's are such a hit). Regardless of what anyone says, when the tech reviewers praise the iPod year after year, and call the Zune a failure, there is a reason for it. Justify the Zune all you want, and pretend the iPod lacks quality, but this is simply not the case.

The Zune had many many issues, not the least of which was the software, which had to be completely rewritten after version 1.0. Then there was the playforsure debacle, where everyone who was renting their music one morning woke up to find out it was no more (thus giving a prime example of why you should own your music). Then there is the issue with how thick the Zune HDD models are, embarassingly thick. Then there is the issue with wifi, why have it just to swap songs that can only be played how many times? Good use of space in the player microsoft. Had to find something to have it stand apart and this was it? This all makes sense when you learn that the Zune was thrown together with off the shelf parts, and the software was also thrown together. It's like Microsoft to release a product using the brand name to help sell it, even though it is a piece of junk. The Zune is failing for good reason. The techies should stop hating everything mainstream, drop the prejudice, and see that Apple is producing some really nice products.

[lmasanti]

quote:
"Microsoft's passion is software, not hardware. It's time for Microsoft to follow its muse and get out of the hardware business."

You say "passion" for the way Microsoft insist in producing crappy software?

I think --as others had posted-- that the only "good" products from MS are keyboards and mice... OK, Flight Simulator too.

All the rest, crap! (I include Vista here)

[vagreville]

I love my 16GB Zune, and I refuse to use anything Apple related on my PC. The Zune software works great compared to iTunes and it has all the features I want and need. I hope they keep supporting it and improving on it.

[hometeam360]

I think it's unfair to judge a product without actually owning one. I bought 6 original gen1 30Gb Zunes years ago, and just last week finished replacing them all with gen2 flash based Zunes.

This tiny tiny device does everything it's suppose to do - and it has a built in FM radio, and WiFi. Now sure - the iTouch & iPhone have Wifi, but outside those 2 models - no other iPod has those features. No other iPod can access it's store over WiFi... or listen to the radio and click-add the music from the store (Zune Pass required of course).

I subscribe to podcasts (video & audio), and when I walk into my home I just tell the Zune to do a wireless sync, and like IT magic - the device syncs up. I got a Photo directory that I share over the Mesh with friends & relatives, and I have my Zune software watching it... Those too WiFi sync just like the podcasts.

The Zune supports more codecs (last time I checked). The 4Gb flash models are only $99, and have a full color screen. Not much more than those clothespin screenless ipods.

The problem is that the press keeps beating the sheet out of the Zune, and consumers are left with this unjustified sense that it's all going to be over soon... Even when the Zune first came out it was like that - and years later nothing has changed.

I hope MS continues with the software upgrades, which incorporate more and more. I'd like to see it worked more gracefully into the XBOX (and XBL & Marketplace).

I have an iTouch. Without enough free WiFi it got old, which I understand isn't a problem with the iPhone... But for what the Zune was made for doing (playing videos, music, looking at photos) - it really does surpass so much of the mp3 player market in features.

Now if you want to compare your iTouch/iPhone to my decked out media-PC, with built in bluetooth-2-SIP, HDTV playback on my 42" monitor I'm ready to go... Fact is unless you compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges, even your iPhone lacks... Compare the Zune to others in it's class - and it's far superior.

As for all the ipod users... Lemmons.

[Jayemmbee]

everyone hates on the zune just like vista and just like vista im sure no one has used a zune, i have both zune and vista and they are both great, just bad hype and just got hammered by apple sheep,
but really what both platforms need is agressive advertising and support for the zune outside of north america, support macs, and in canada give us zune marketplace. but i love it i just wish more people had one so i could use the social better, and that 3rd parties would support accessories like docks etc.