Version: 2008

Comments on: 37signals' Fried: 'Free is not the future' of apps

At the Future of Web Apps conference in Miami, Jason Fried takes the stage to proclaim that people should, and will, pay for a high-quality Web applications.

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by David Arbogast February 24, 2009 10:24 AM PST
Absolutely. If you build something that people want, then people will pay a fair price for it. "Free" means that you won't collect enough revenue to improve your product, and those folks who charge will leave you well behind. Thus is the primary reason why "open source" continues to lag behind... because regardless of how many times people tell you that you *can* sell open source software... well... very few people pay for what they can download for free.
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by Penguinisto February 24, 2009 12:06 PM PST
"very few people pay for what they can download for free."

Red Hat seems to be making a very healthy profit from RHEL, in spite of the existence of CentOS. Care to explain why?
by Get_Bent February 24, 2009 12:14 PM PST
> Red Hat seems to be making a very healthy profit from RHEL, in spite of the existence of CentOS. Care to explain why?

Because Red Hat charges a yearly fee for support and updates. Many businesses prefer to have a "safety net" for the o.s. that they deploy on critical servers.
by Penguinisto February 24, 2009 12:04 PM PST
* 1907: doctors assert that automobiles traveling at over 6 "miles-per-hour" can do lasting and substantial damage to the human body.

* 1908: powered flight was considered too clunky and inefficient when compared with the more graceful and fuel-conscious zeppelins, and 'aeroplanes' were considered to be nothing more than a passing fad.

* 1919: War was considered to be obsolete after the League of Nations formed.

Man - if only I had a penny for each 'professional' observation and prediction made in sheer blindness...

/P
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by FutureGuy February 24, 2009 12:23 PM PST
So implying everything will be "free" at some point so socialism will replace capitalism, may be some day but I don?t see that happen anytime soon and as long as people have to pay bills and Google charges real money for ads ?paid? will out last ?free?.
by alegr February 24, 2009 2:29 PM PST
1917 - Russial revolution. Bolsheviks wanted to build communism, "from everybody according to abilities, to everybody according to demand", society free of money.

1980s - soviet people joked: "grocery store of future communism times. An announcement on the door: there is no demand for milk today".
by rbuchner February 24, 2009 12:07 PM PST
I agree with Jason, completely, when your price is zero, you can't make it up on volume !
Richard Buchner, Hyde Park Systems, Chicago
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by Get_Bent February 24, 2009 12:10 PM PST
When I can get a free house, free utilities, free food, free clothes, free car, free gasoline, and free health care, I'll be able to write free software. Until then, I still have bills to pay, and goodwill is not an accepted form of currency.
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by t8 February 24, 2009 2:10 PM PST
Absolutely. But a if someone can monetize a free alternative.,then they have and advantage over you. But that is what competition is about and the customer wins. Both proprietary and open source make money, and may the best one win.
by Qaballo February 24, 2009 12:17 PM PST
I wholeheartedly disagree "free" is not a valid business model. I accept companies which charge for their intellectual property will generally have a simpler model, but it doesn't make it a better one.

If nothing else, this gentleman is stipulating that Google is a failed business model. With very few exceptions, Google gives away the products that it creates (although they do tend to hold thier source code close to the chest), and generates revenue by selling access to consumers, and the information gathered about those consumers. Google taught us the key to successful free-marketing: monetize your product without selling it.

With that said, it?s not for every company and most definitely not for every product. If only 100 people in the world need your product and it takes 100,000 hours to make it, giving it away would make little sense more often than not. However, that doesn?t mean it can?t be monetized. Support, upgrades, custom development and installations and data mining are all methods to monetize a product in that environment. Giving the software away for free may actually generate more ?sales opportunities? than a simple sticker price.

In a world where most needs are already met by a ?corporate competitor?, free-ware provides an entry point in to crowded marketplace. Literally, how can you be more price competitive than free? Besides, when you talk about millions (or even billions) of consumers, market share is a valuable commodity. Consider Microsoft, which from the inception of personal computing, held a virtual monopoly on the operating system. For years, the Mac OS was it?s only viable competitor and MS gained a stranglehold on the software market as developers created code (often exclusively) to run in the Windows environment.

Today, Microsoft is madly scrambling to hire a VP of Open Source so they can begin to defend against the consistent erosion of market share. An erosion which recently started to include OEMs providing a linux distro with new systems, rather than passing on the dreaded ?Microsoft Tax?. While many that participate in the open source world don?t make money, there are enough out there that prove it?s a viable method of marketing. One that gets better each year as more and more users make the switch, further expanding the available pool of customers to profit from.

To say that ?free? isn?t viable is short sighted, and frankly a bit silly. However, the classical model is much more likely to yield revenues you can plan (and BANK) on. Calling the ?free? model dead, is an invitation to lose out to a competitor who doesn?t rule out available options because they?re harder.
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by rapier1 February 24, 2009 12:32 PM PST
Google charges for its service. It may not charge you, the user, but it certainly charges all the people that use it to display ads and the like. Their model definitely has a chargeable component to it - its just not *you* they are charging. They wouldn't be in the position they are in if it was 'free'. As such, all viable business models *have* to have a chargeable component in them. Google and a lot of ad driven sites are just repurposing the old radio and TV revenue model. Now, there are some applications that are free as in really free without any chargeable components to them - but these are often hobbyist applications where all the time and resources are donated or supported through donations. These work in some niche areas but they don't seem to be a widely applicable model.
by Spiceworks February 25, 2009 12:05 PM PST
You are exactly right. Like everything in life there are few absolutes. Whether 'free' will work or not for a particular product is a function of 1) how valuable the audience is, 2) do you capture a lot of their attention with a valuable product (read: not a feature), 3) how clever you are in coming up with additional ways to make money beyond running AdSense... or a freemium model.

As Qaballa and rapier 1 highlight, Google is a 'networked business' where on one side they build a vast audience with a great product that they offer for free and on the other side they charge advertisers trying to reach those people while they are searching. Pretty simple but it took them some luck and brains to figure it out! LinkedIn, Facebook, & Twitter are other examples of 'networked businesses' that are in various stages of figuring out their business models. Had they all followed Fried's advice they'd certainly be forgotten.

The danger is there will be a mad rush to the other side of the 'monetization ship' and within a month or two every web app will have a 'see plans and pricing' button (amazingly similar to 37 Signal's I'm sure)... and 12 months later web entrepreneurs will be bemoaning their lack of audience and puzzled with their $5k/month check (500 people paying you $10/month).

Kudos to Jason on a great talk but let's hope entrepreneurs think through their options a bit before blindly accepting his word as truth.
by malcarada February 24, 2009 12:27 PM PST
The problem is, why should I pay for something your competitor gives me for free? If one of your competitors give it away, you better do the same.
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by rapier1 February 24, 2009 12:35 PM PST
Unless your competing product is sufficiently better that it makes paying for it worthwhile. This is why Photoshop still has a big presence in spite of Gimp.
by bradfordshimp February 25, 2009 5:40 AM PST
That is you are competing on price. You can also compete on quality or convenience, as rapier1 points out. In general, you should never do something in business just because your competitor is doing it. That just makes you the copycat, where you should be the leader.
by vikinzer February 24, 2009 12:50 PM PST
I think it will depend a great deal on several issues. First among them how quickly the AGPL proliferates. I have a little Dell computer running in my back room with Ubuntu 7.04 on it. I have several Drupal installs on that computer. I use them to store and organize documents for everything from an upcoming wedding, to several role-playing games I run.

If a package like google docs was available for download and install on a linux server running mysql I would be running it on that little box. I would keep documents on it that didn't require high security, and if it integrated with Drupal all the better.

In the interim I use Google Docs. I think that like the commercialized download software business a paid "software as service" is vulnerable to the software that runs server side being made open source under the AGPL. I personally hope it does.

There will still be a market for the software as a service charge model if the people charging offer a highly secured environment. Something I could not provide for myself. While may large businesses would be able to provide that for themselves there would be plenty of small businesses that would be better off paying someone else to secure their cloud applications.

The cloud is a new market, and I don't think anyone really knows how it will look in 5 years. As with most things in the computer industry it will depend more on what is developed than what customers ask for in the early stages. Once maturity is hit customers will be able to demand more. That is how almost all software has developed so far.
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by t8 February 24, 2009 2:06 PM PST
Free is the future because there will always be someone who will do it for free in order to be no1 and to save on marketing costs.

Also, if a company can make money out of free, then they will undercut their paid for services competitors. Google gives their stuff away for free and they make billions.

Anyway, I also think applications are declining in importance in comparison to the rise of web apps or web services.
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by andreliem February 24, 2009 9:41 PM PST
this depends on if you consider applications with advertising "free". I don't...
by t8 April 4, 2009 11:47 PM PDT
I do because the links are not distracting and sometimes they are actually useful.
by teh_chrizzle February 24, 2009 2:11 PM PST
no you can't just make stuff and give it away for free and hope to make money, but free can be a very real and very useful part of a business model.

free stuff makes the stuff you sell more valuable. this is why a lot of mobile carriers give away phones. the free phones create demand for paid service.

a digital good of any kind is infinitely redistributable, so giving that digital product away to add value to your non-infinitely reproducible goods is a model that has worked for a growing number of businesses.

free is working for small ventures like webcomics (penny arcade and pvp are two great examples) to large ventures like sun microsystems, who gives away software to add value to it's hardware and services business.
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by zelrik February 24, 2009 2:52 PM PST
You cannot control software developement, it is impossible. Anyone in their basement can improve opensource software on their spare time. There is no ******* way to compete with it.

You guys understand that?? no damn way! People will always code on their spare time and enhance the GNU project, and give it away for free.

...
How can a company compete with millions of developers working for free and delivering software for free ???

Answer : the corporates can fight all they want, they are eventually doomed to fail.

That article is a non-sense. Anybody could figure out that simple fact.
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by andreliem February 24, 2009 9:45 PM PST
When open source software becomes useful, there's someone out there that learns how to make money out of it. And then it's great, because computer programmers keep fixing it for free, and these companies keep getting to sell their services with more custom powerful solutions.

Maybe you are right though, this article is a bit of non-sense. Open source is great, it works, it's often better... and business people also make money from it. Win-win situation?
by mma17 February 24, 2009 3:26 PM PST
I think rapier1 is onto something when he/she explained that Google gives away content for free, but they charge advertisers for it. Perhaps we need to reassess the definition of "free." Sure businesses need to make money from their products, regardless of whether consumers want to pay for it or not. So the solution would be to find a way to get paid by someone other than the consumer. Alt payment platform TrialPay lets sellers of digital goods give away products for free, but they get paid the full amount of their product, or sometimes even more, by advertiser dollars. Every online seller should look into it.
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by andreliem February 24, 2009 9:49 PM PST
I think this article is touching on a subject that is less black and white than it's made out to be. Jason Fried is probably saying this because there are a lot of free open-source basecamp wannabe's out there. But providing the server and maintenance is half of the battle, people shouldn't forget that... basecamp has great uptime and reliability.

Outside of this, I was under the impression that open source software was meant to allow great software to be built so that the service/creative drive behind the product was the business selling point, the real value...
by lukepuplett February 25, 2009 4:30 AM PST
Free is viable, however it cannot grow any more than a finite amount.

The reason is that at some point, someone has to be making money to pay for the food that the developer eats and the computer he uses while he writes open-source code.

If his employer is not making money, it will go bust. He will not find employment because no other software company can afford to pay him, because they're electricity costs aren't covered by their free products.

Today, companies that charge and have positive cashflow are supplementing the free/communist economy. It is these companies that put food on the programmer's table. The only alternative is that all programmers find work in a company that generates money from something other than intellectual property.

However, this only works for software code in isolation. Applications that require hosting or are dependant upon centralised infrastructure will consume raw materials such as the metals in the servers and those that are burned to make electricity.

Decentralisation (peer-to-peer) could be explored as an alternative, although one must understand that the resources consumed by all the peers is again paid for with money earned from the user's salaried job.

Hosting a communist micro economy inside an all-pervasive capitalist world can only go so far because it haemorrhages money at the edges where it interfaces with the capitalist economy.

Everything would have to work on a labour-swapping currency before all expenses can be cancelled out.
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by brettowens March 1, 2009 9:59 AM PST
I agree that the free strategy will be a dead end for some time into the future. At least as long as capital raising is tight...which could be at least 3-5 more years.

I appreciate the free model in terms of establishing a user base - lower all barriers to someone using your product. It's one that my team has considered.

However I think to execute on that strategy properly, the company must have sufficient outside funding - which is tough to do in the current environment.

I'd imagine it's extremely difficult to bootstrap a free product - I actually don't see how that could work. And I believe the 37 Signals team are big fans of bootstrapping (as am I), so there's a fundamental conflict in beliefs between "bootstrap" and "free".
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