Comments on: Does Linux lack mass-market appeal?

Wal-Mart has pulled all Linux machines off store shelves, saying they simply weren't what people wanted. Don Reisinger thinks Wal-Mart is stating the obvious.

[SRobertRoberts]

Couldn't much the same be said of OSX? It doesn't run Internet Explorer (at least, not anymore), it's not in anywhere near as many offices as Windows and it's not mentioned in the news that much more often than Linux is (products that can run OSX might be mentioned a lot, but the OS itself is only mentioned when there's a new version).

OSX doesn't have mass market appeal, Apple hardware has mass market appeal (sort of - excluding the iPod, I'd say they have a large niche market rather than a mass market). Desirable "Linux native" hardware (like Asus's eee pc) is going to be much the same - a broad but comparatively small market. And in both cases you'll find people who will still want to run Windows on that hardware.

"but until it's as easy to use as Microsoft's OS"

So, you want to make Linux harder to use? Seriously, I run Ubuntu side by side with XP at work and Ubuntu is easier to use. I bought a PC at christmas to turn into a media centre and it came with Vista Home Basic, so I thought I'd see what Vista was like - within an hour I got fed up with it and installed Ubuntu. I find Windows wants to get in your face ("you have unused icons", "you don't want to see the contents of this directory", "I'm going to update whether you like it or not") while Ubuntu gets out of the way.

[workshopmusic]

The quality of customer service that is realistically achievable in a WalMart store probably has a lot to do with it also. I would not be surprised if there had been a lot of damaged boxes, inop demo machines etc. This is not something that belongs in a WalMart. The "race to the bottom" price point... the whole idea of a computer as a bargain consumer commodity eventually sinks most vendors who try it.

[john55440]

"Linux will never be a mass-market product"

Let's face it, desktop Linux is just for geeks, and/or people who are obsessed with hating Microsoft. The latter group can buy a Mac.

[russkeller]

So the point of this article is... What exactly? It comes across like a Microsoft fan boy saying Ha Ha Linux sucks because it's not corporate.

[nicketty nick]

I use Mac OS X as my main OS. I have alot of friends who use LInux. They are all technical guys. They love it. They like things like the way the gpu is used to its best unlike windows which wants to use the cpu more. I like it too. But until things get a lot simpler its not going to get mass market appeal. Take for instance a well known a multi platform app like VLC. Someone who is new to linux would have difficulty installing in on ubuntu. There is no installer. You need to know about things like repositories. Pretty straightforward things when u get used to them but for a newbie it would be very off putting when they are used to simple easy to use installers. Until simple things like this are resolved it will remain in the hands of professional types. BTW: I have it on my PS3 and its very cool.

[texashale]

When you consider that every distro of Linux put things in a different location (even updates of the same distro do it) it makes it very difficult to learn Linux. The developers of Linux obious have no clue about standards. Most games and good apps run on Windows, not Linux. You can set something like Samba up on a Linux box and one minute it is working, the next minute it isn't. It's almost impossible to get a Linux machine to cooperate at all. I have yet to get wifi working on any Linux box at all, and when you try to follow peoples instructions, you invariably will run into the wall of things not being where they are supposed to be. It took me days to get Nvidia drivers to install. Every driver takes a long time to install and get working. Install a new app and it may or may not mork. I don't like Microsoft, but Linux just isn't an option. The Linux community needs to get some standards as to file location etc established and they need to have standardized drivers and apps. I am not a coder and I don't want to be. It is really a problem when you have to be a coder in order to run your OS.

[SRobertRoberts]

"The Linux community needs to get some standards as to file location etc"

You mean the Linux Standards Base? http://www.linux-foundation.org/en/LSB

Linux has standard file locations for years.

[mdpa]

Another fine example of don't believe everything you hear. This comment above is just simply ridiculous and for the most part untrue. When I learned the new Ubuntu 7.10 Operating System would ship with wi-fi drivers, I just had to try it. I set Ubuntu 7.10 to install on my computer and it did perfectly. It even recognized my old laptop had built-in wireless and downloaded/installed the drivers. Then it wanted updates and I let it install updates. Then it wanted to install drivers for my nVIDIA video card, so I let it. Needed to install my laser printer. Selected it from the list of available printers (didn't even put in my printer disk) and it was working a few seconds later. All Done. No problems. Everything works. Sure, Linux isn't as easy as Windows some of the times, but if you're tired of spending a lot of money on Operating Systems and software AND willing to break your Windows mentality, you might just find that Linux (Ubuntu) is an excellent alternative that's also free. In fact, everything about Linux - including thousands of software programs - is free. If you want a new program to do something, just go to the menu and do a search for it in the Synaptic Package Manager, highlight it, and install it. How easy is that? I say give Linux a few more years to mature even more and then look out. Considering the number of different distros (versions of Linux) out there, I'm thinking maybe you just didn't try a good/easy one. I fortunately stumbled on Ubuntu first. Then I tried some others to see how they compared. IMHO - they didn't. My home computer is running Ubuntu 7.10 Linux now and I really haven't looked back on Microsoft. I'm not a coder either. It took you "Days" to install an nVidia driver?! I wouldn't go around telling people that. That's just plain embarrassing considering nVidia has Linux drivers right on their website if you want to use theirs instead of the ones that already are installed for you. They even provide you simple instructions. I know all this 'cause I thought I would once try it myself. I did get hung up on a small detail not mentioned in the instructions, but in only a couple minutes - my question was answered on the Ubuntu forum and I was able to install it. Turns out, I really didn't even need to install the driver and could have been just fine with the original driver installed during the installation. So what's my point in all this.... Linux certainly isn't as mature as Windows yet, but it has come a very long way and for many it's becoming a real alternative. At the very least, you should keep your eye on it from time to time.

[tbsteph]

Well, let's see, Linux has about 1% if the market with OSX about 10% and growing. I fail to see the comparison between the two other than one has a 10 fold larger installed base.

[SRobertRoberts]

According to this http://news.softpedia.com/news/Mac-OS-X-and-Linux-Fail-to-Compare-to-Vista-67425.shtml, OSX only had combined PPC & Intel market share of 6.61 (or 6 - 7 fold larger than Linux - and both still far, far behind windows). However, that is the net app stat, which I have doubts about. And with all these marketshare stats, do macs that run windows in parallels count twice?

Personally, I don't think anybody really knows how many machines are running what, but if people admitted that then there be fewer things to write about.

[wango2007]

john55440
Let's face it, desktop Linux is just for geeks, and/or people who are obsessed with hating Microsoft. The latter group can buy a Mac.

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Truer words have never been spoken on this issue. The world uses Windows because it gets the job done. If it were as bad as Linux or OSX people say, people would abandon Windows en masse for a better desktop OS... but there isn't one.

Linux and OSX are just there to appease the contrarians. Regular people use Windows and the vast amount of software written for it. Linux and OSX are not even contenders, except in the minds of Geeks, or zealots in the case of OSX.

[tux_warrior]

Umm
The Asus Eee PCs sold around 400,000 units over the Christmas holidays so I don't really think it's Linux that was the problem here. Try putting Linux on something besides garbage hardware and then see what happens.
Comparing the gPC to anything Apple makes hardware wise...??? It's not even comparing apples to oranges (no pun intended)

[wango2007]

tbsteph
Well, let's see, Linux has about 1% if the market with OSX about 10% and growing..

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10%? In your dreams. Closer to 5%. Keep in mind that the recent growth in Mac sales is because it now runs Windows.

[BlackMicro]

Come out of the 90's and get with the times - view current sales stats. Not quite 10% but 9% is more reasonable.

[tchalvakspam]

UI simplicity is KING for basic computer use.

Unfortunately, an Open source OS causes problems with UI because standards are hard to lock down (does every program use tabs, and does each tab have an X to close 'em? Where is the "close this window" X located? What color is the chrome?). The next release of Ubuntu Hardy Heron is focusing on honing it's UI/Chrome/Theming, and I'm really lookin' forward to that (Ubuntu is my primary OS, these days), but it's much easier to get a comprehensive and wholistic "look and feel" when you're building a more monolithic, non-mix-and-match OS (Windows, MacOSX).
And the King of UI is now Apple. They've led the field in things that an OS's UI can do (Expose [!!!], it's AQUA interface, it's Dock, Widgets) and other OSes are copying them (Window's scroll wheel window display, Linux's Kompose), which I'm thankful for, because these are things that people should have had access to all along.

Which is why these days, I recommend getting a mac to my friends and family, when they ask me. Because you've got the command line, you've got the strong unix core, and it could potentially allow you to break into linux, if it becomes necessary in the future (if Apple falls behind in their persuit of good software, or gets too expensive, or a weak hardware computer comes preloaded with Vista's devastating resource-eating), but there's no doubt in my mind that Linux IS going to be the future, because Apple is the king of UI, and Windows is the king of business software, but Linux is the king of meeting a need for software when you need it (well, speakin' for Ubuntu with synaptics/apt-get and it's gross library of applications, at least), and that's a big part of where the future lies, specificity and meeting needs as people come up with them, instead of when the chokepoint of the company can deal with it.

Anyway, I've digressed, but I guess the moral is, yes, adoption and commercialization and being the default install matters some, but the long-term growth and stability that Linux provides matters more.

[Dalkorian]

Who really cares about prostitutes like wallmart anyway? People who go there are to stupid to realize they're spending their children's future away to save a few measly pennies. Wallmart is nothing more than a pen for retards. Period. Anyone who shops there should be forced into slavery, since that's what they are supporting.

Funny how M$ is the same way - you don't own your computer, they do. Enjoy your servitude morons.

My computer is mine and it works great. Guess what - it's running Ubuntu.

[oliveiraiportal]

We are working on the server side of the world, and the problem it is exactly the same, people do not want to know if Linux is a very good operating system, with lots of wonderfull packages that allow any one to create an Intranet or Communications server. People just want a Mail server, a File server, Web Server, Proxy server, IP PBX, etc. And Linux can't give them this without months of trainning.

We created that Linux for common persons: "IPBrick easy Linux". Now we have customers that never heard about the famous Linux packages for server systems like: Qmail, Samba, Apache, Squid, Asterisk, etc, and can use our IPBrick Linux. These people know what they want in terms of services and they just want a Linux that can be easily installed and configured.

We just solved the main Linux problems with our distribution : installation, configuration and recovery in case of hardware faillure. IPBrick, it is a Linux Debian with: automatic installation (5 min), functional configuration, and disaster recovery (10 min). We make possible that a person that knows the name of its company, and the name of the people working in the company can install and configure a server for them with the above functions and much more.

And with the IPBrick solution we kept the operating system open, if someone wants to dig inside and see what we are doing. So now even Linux people are starting to use IPBrick because the solution reduces enourmously the amount of time dedicated to configure basic things like (DNS, DHCP, LDAP, etc).

[LazLong]

No......
To Answer your Silly Question.
As it (the Desktop) still has not been presented with any parity if at all. Yet it runs your Tivo/DVR, TomTom/GPS, MediaPlayers, More phones than MS, Routers/Network Appliances & the majority of the Web/Internet. Still even more "people" are becoming aware of, interested in, & using Linux everyday, on the desktop & everywhere else.

Why there is so much ignorance on the part of those who should know better, You, the tech press. It makes some, wonder. Yet I don't have to.

Your motivations are clear. AoL (Afraid of Linux)
Please commercial advertisers.
Sell Product?

You seem far behind, rather than on top of the curve.

Is there anyone who really knows/uses & writes about GNU/Linux & GPL at News.com.com (Cnet, ZDnet etc).... you guys are really behind the times.

[Clothahump]

"Who really cares about prostitutes like wallmart anyway? People who go there are to stupid to realize they're spending their children's future away to save a few measly pennies. Wallmart is nothing more than a pen for retards. Period. Anyone who shops there should be forced into slavery, since that's what they are supporting."

Is that the new line?

I remember when it was, "they run other businesses out of the area". That's been proven false, so now we're on to something else, eh?

Anyways, I'm using Windows Vista right now. My browser is FF 3 beta 4, my photo editing is Gimp, my word processor is OOo. These, and everything else I use with this OS, work perfectly, and the one time I downloaded a program that caused me problems - SR had me up and running in 5 minutes.

Why would I switch, when I have nothing to complain about?

[xakee]

Advanced OS like linux?... in what sense? I have worked with linux since 4/5 years now. Im a programmer and have programmed on both Linux and Windows OS. Windows is not a piece of cake nor is it a software made by high-school grads for high-school grads windows is pretty complex as well. But the real difference is the approach. Windows doesnt beat the drum about it. Windows is about enabling users and businesses, about enabling normal users do what they want to do without expecting them to be geeks.

And oh please give me a break with "i hate microsoft too".... no... it really doesnt look very kool n geekish to say that unless you have a very solid reason for it. If you think microsoft products are overprices, dont buy it. If you think microsoft is evil, dont use its products? Its like a fashion now of some sort to say "i hate microsoft" and saying that makes one very geekish and a PhD in computer science or something....????....

How many people actually need the source code for the keyboard driver?...or your display device...and on this Fedora Core 6 while trying to comment on this blog my firefox crashed and closed all my work....how kool. How is that any "ok" than that happening on windows (which by far happens less for me atleast...).... and yes i program device drivers for windows..i know what im talking about.

[3rdalbum]

Does any operating system have mass-market appeal?

Mac OS X - Obviously doesn't, as it doesn't have the majority of the market.
Linux - Same as above
Windows - Millions of people struggle with it every day. Computer magazines are full of letters about how much people want to ditch Windows, or how they think Microsoft's programs stink. A friend of mine, who knows nothing about computers, is begging me to reinstall Ubuntu on her computer.

Linux isn't difficult to use, it's just DIFFERENT. When people tell me how they think Linux is difficult because they couldn't work out how to do xyz, I can relate. But I can only relate because of my own troubles trying to get various things on Windows to work, on other peoples' computers. The most complex thing I can do on Windows without help is opening up Firefox and the POS screen at the place I work.

Setting up an internet connection? Takes me hours on Windows. If I can complete the task at all. I never managed to install a graphics driver for a customer who bought an LCD TV to hook up to his computer. I could tell that it needed a driver, but there's no such thing as Restricted Drivers Manager or Synaptic on Windows, and in the end the installers I was downloading weren't appropriate. I couldn't even find out the exact model of the card, because there's no lspci and I couldn't find the Hardware Information panel.

I'm sure Windows is easy in its own way, but I find Linux much easier.

If the trolls here just accepted that Linux is a different operating system, and took some time to learn it, I'm sure they'd work out fine. I would take some time to learn Windows, except that I don't have a copy of it, I'd rather spend my money on something else, and I refuse to install pirated software.

[crt60]

The problems is the word needs to get out, the other problem is, Linux needs to standardize their programs and OS, unless you are a geek, you can easily hose the OS. I have been using PCLinuxOS, which I find to be the best of all of them.
Trying very hard to do with Linux, what I do with Windoze XP, but I will keep trying, because after buying Windows Vista, and spending 2 days installing it and talking to Indians in India.
I want to completely go with Linux, and throw Microsoft in the trash.

[TiddlyPom]

As 3rdalbum says - there is absolutely nothing wrong with Linux except that it isn't Windows!

The same goes for OpenOffice vs Microsoft Office and (think-of-any-proprietry-application) vs (open-source-equivilent). I have heard this argument so many times from so many people who have never actually used free/open source applications and those who have usually have their eyes opened.

I use Linux all the time as my main operating system (primarily 32 bit Ubuntu but also 64 bit Red Hat Enterprise 5.1) and can do virtually anything that anyone can do under Windows to the extent that I don't even think about it anymore.

My home PCs are fast, stable, virus free and easy to use and "just work". My wife and two primary (elementory) age children all use Linux at home and have no problems moving between these machines and PCs running Windows at work/school.

I have not paid anything for the operating systems and applications on my PCs and they are all highly functional and perfectly legal (although I have donated money to a couple of F/OSS projects). If I was to replace my Linux applications with proprietry operating systems and software then I would probably have to spend $10,000+ in licences to get the equivilent functionality.

The common fallacy that you cannot play any decent games under Linux is also utter garbage. There are plenty of excellent free games available (see http://www.happypenguin.org for examples) but also many proprietry games now run under Linux (especially ID Software's Quake/Doom series and Unreal Tournament). For those that don't there is a Windows emulation system called Cedega (http://www.transgaming.com) which allows many of these games to run as well. Yes there are also plenty of Windows games that won't run under Linux as well but lets get things into perspective.

What Linux needs is a good advertising campaign perferably by a well known household name such as IBM, HP, Dell or other large company that uses Linux to show Joe Public once and for all how fantastic Linux and F/OSS software is and that you do not *need* to run Windows on a PC to do everything that you would want to do with it.