Comments on: Will Zune HD challenge iPod Touch?

Microsoft says Zune HD is designed to go head to head with Apple's touch-screen iPod. But will its HD radio and OLED screen be enough to provide healthy competition?

[srminton]

Hmmm....commercial radio littered with annoying ads and random song selection (Zune radio feature) vs. thousands of applications which add to the functionality of the iPod Touch.
Do you really believe constant ads and not being able to choose your songs are a small price to pay when listening to music? I don't. Isn't this why we all bought iPods in the first place? We could have stuck with transistor radios, after all.
As for connecting it to your HDTV, why do you need a Zune to watch movies on your TV? Are you seriously suggesting this is the best way to get content on your big screen? I've never once felt the need or urge to hook my iPod to my TV. The opposite is more true (get TV content onto my iPod for when I'm traveling etc.). I don't believe it's rational to buy a Zune as the means of watching stuff on your big screen TV.
The Zune seems like a nice device for a particular audience, but an iPod Touch challenger? That statement doesn't hold any water based on these features. I'd say this Zune is a worthy competitor to the iPod Classic. The fact is, the iPod Touch is as much a PDA, web tablet, e-reader etc. as it is a media player. Add an App Store with a similar amount of applications/functions and it would be a more direct competitor with the iPod Touch.

[wjsteele]

Actually, I like to listen to the radio, and having it in HD is even better. As for hooking it up to the TV... I am on the road all the time and having MY movie selection on my Zune and having the ability to hook it to the hotel TV HD is a big plus. (Yes, I do hook my current Zune up to TVs, but they're not HD.)

I see the Zune's app store as a great additon, too. The store that the XBox 360 has is great and it's being "ported" to the Zune (even rebranded as such.) Given that they use the same development tools, it's quite easy to see it growing very fast. Writing a game with XNA for the Zune (or the XBox for that matter) is quite easy... much easier than on any other platform I've ever seen.

Bill

[ryanst24]

You clearly have your fingers three feet from the true pulse of tech. The Zune HD is going to be a very worthy competitor to the Ipod Touch and the only way Apple can combat that is to introduce a subscription model like the Zune already has.
The 'Channels' feature is far and away above anything iTunes currently has to offer and the Zune works flawlessly with it. If you are in to music discovery, the Zune wins hands down.
The app store is the spot that Microsoft has to overcome. The Ipod Touch has a great lead and it might be insurmountable but hey, no one stays on top for ever.
I have both an Ipod Touch and a Zune and will be upgrading to the Zune HD until the iPod re-invents itself.

[CDubber]

I agree with srminton, FM radio is dead. And how in the world is HD radio a feature that "challenges" the iPod/iPhone? I've been enjoying Slacker Radio, Pandora, and Last.fm on my iPhone FOR A YEAR NOW!!! And the Sirius app for iPod/iPhone is coming soon. Who needs HD radio? Advantage eliminated.

And let's face it, these flash-memory-based devices just don't have the storage to serve as serious HD video delivery systems. Advantage eliminated.

So Apple adds OLED to the iPod/iPhone (which they surely will, eventually) and Zune HD officially offers NO advantage over the market leaders. Advantage easily eliminated.

The Social? The market doesn't seem to care. Advantage eliminated.

Apple wins without breaking a sweat. That said, Apple needs to continue to innovate.

Keep dumping money into this flop, Microsoft.

[Random_Walk]

For most folks, FM radio, and even HD Radio is a non-starter. In PDX, we're blessed to have a couple of stations worth listening to (that don't have the "morning zoo" BS and focuses on music), but I can stream those off the web at any time (example? http://www.knrk.com/ , then click "listen" off the main menu).

OTOH, or the most part, FM Radio, as srminton has said, is dead. For most radio stations, you get one of two types: Either you get endless chatter and adverts with maybe 4 songs an hour, or you get plenty of music - but it's all recycled crap that get played ad nauseum.

HD radio is (for now) mostly experimental, and stations there serve more as adjuncts to old-fashioned radio stations than as stations in their own right. That alone makes HD radio a novelty at best.

--

"The Zune HD is going to be a very worthy competitor to the Ipod Touch"

Lots of passion, but no precise explanation as to ...how.

That is, how will it be "a worthy competitor"? The "Channels" feature you speak of is nothing more than a glorified website with some AJAX lashed onto it. I can get a far more comprehensive social music experience off of Pandora right now, from any web-enabled device (including my lowly Crackberry Curve) and doing so costs me $0.00... unlike the Zune subscription site, which costs $14/mo to see the inside of.

--

HD television? CDubber hits it on the head here: "...these flash-memory-based devices just don't have the storage to serve as serious HD video delivery systems."

This is entirely correct. A feature-length movie @ 1080p resolution can suck down an easy 2 terabytes of disk space uncompressed. Even with good codecs, you're lucky if you can pack it onto a Blu-Ray disk and at the same time keep it at least somewhat artifact-free. Unless these little Zunes come out standard with 80-120gb of disk space, you'd never be able to store more than one or two movies on it, and at the same time expect to carry music and etc. on the thing at the same time.

This means that, for most folks, you get some convenience from having an HDMI port (maybe), but that's about it. Any real HD video capability would otherwise be wasted due to lack of disk space to properly store the things. Any 1080p movies (or even 720p) you 'buy' from the Zune sub site will be packed ultra-tiny (and thus full of artifacts), which pretty much erases any advantage you thought you had with the thing...

[slapppy]

A ton of people who are not up to HD information will buy this. Just because it has HD after the product name. Yeah technically it qualifies to have "HD" ( HD Radio ) after the name Zune, but for all intents and purposes, this is a sleazy used car salesman technique for selling a product that no one really cared about before.

Zune HD and no, not HD video playback on the device itself, you need to buy a Zune Dock. You know that part the author conveniently left out. Making it sound like you can just plug this thing right in. So don't forget your dock when you leave the house.

[Perry_Clease]

There are times when radio, particularly a local station, is needed. I am thinking during a disaster, natural or manmade, when you need breaking news. Sure you can almost certainly get that info from a website, but with radio/audio you don't need to look at a screen to get the news. Maybe what we need is a CONELRAD website.

[Random_Walk]

@Perry: Good point - seriously.

OTOH, I have a little crank-powered shortwave radio at home for times like that (it also does FM, AM, has a flashlight on it, etc). It is an artifact from having once lived in 'Tornado Alley'. I'm fairly sure that folks living in areas prone to disaster already have something similar packed in their homes somewhere (and if they don't, I doubt that they'll run out and buy a Zune just because it has a radio, and for that purpose).

As it stands now, the only thing a PMP is good for in a disaster is to serve as an impromptu flashlight (e.g. many folks who escaped the World Trade center on 9/11 did just that with their cell phones), or to serve as some means to pass the time while waiting for rescue (at least until the battery ran out)

I also agree that It would be cool to have some sort of tiny AM/weather radio capability, but from a practical standpoint, IMHO it would be better served and useful to have on a smartphone than a PMP, since PMP's aren't something one normally associates with portable communication (as opposed to entertainment). Otherwise, you could make the argument that, say, laptops should have emergency radio capabilities, or that travelers' alarm clocks should have them, etc...

[dhavleak]

@ Don -- minor point about the hard drive capacity not being released by MS yet -- I think we should say that the "storage capacity" hasn't been released. This thing will almost certainly be flash-based considering it's dimensions.

@ CDubber, Random_Walk, etc:
You rarely use an ipod touch/classic ipoc/2nd gen Zune etc. for storing your video archive. You generally just put a handful of movies on it to watch while traveling etc. That being the case, even 32GB of storage will suffice for a lot of people. The typical 720p movie is about 6GB and 480p requires around 4GB usually.

The point of having HD Radio is that when you're on the move you don't always have a WiFi hotspot available. It's nice to have options.

[bananaphonerules]

I used Radio all the time. My Gym broadcasts its on radio stations on FM for each TV.
I own an iPod and a Zune. But I use the Zune the most.

[DrtyDogg]

@bananaphonerules: Don't even bother those two would only listen to radio if it was included on an iPod.

[drwam]

It looks like a nice music player. Of course, you are comparing last year's Touch with this year's Zune. And neither is shipping (or in manufacturing). Stay tuned for further developments.

[Everlovin G]

@ by Don Reisinger

Unsubstantiated speculation as reportage?

[sdf0013]

Don's made his career on this single premise.

[sting7k]

It should have a satellite radio reciever instead of a tuner to be interesting. Does anyone really listen to "the radio" anymore?

[danielwsmithee]

For some reason there is about 3% of the population that wants a radio tuner on their portable music player. The rest of us think of it as wasted space and money. With iPod Touch or iPhone you can just download an app that allows you to stream your favorite FM radio station directly to your device.

[loose_screw]

I'd like an FM radio for the gym to watch the TVs while I work out. Without wifi at the gym, iPod touch users can't use an app to stream it radio stations.

[MadLyb]

Yes, I listen to NPR every day and while HD may be overkill, it is a nice touch supporting digital radio.

[rapier1]

I'm also an NPR fan and listen to it a lot. The HD Radio is a nice feature which may or may not prove to be useful. Getting NPR on a podcast just doesn't work as well for me most of the time.

[ithomas94]

This is precisely why fanboys should just shut their mouths. sting7k, that was such an ignorant comment.
Yes, people listen to the radio, despite what your small, closed-minded brain thinks.

[AbeFromWindsor]

you people all talk about apps that let you stream radio to your ipod, and that is great if you are somewhere that has wifi all over, like a little city, but if you live in a rural area wifi hotspots are few and far between, i don't need to have an internet connection to listen to radio and i like that.

[myles taylor]

Well I think it will be a good device for the people who are looking for an alternative. However, I think the iPod Touch will remain dominant. I don't believe it's biggest advantage is the App Store. It is, but the only reason the App Store is so large is because of the iPhone. The biggest advantage to the iPod Touch is the iPhone. The fact that they have two hugely successful devices that share the same App store makes it an even tougher nut to crack and one that I don't think even the Zune HD will crack.

[myles taylor]

And Don, this article was basically restating everything that's been said about it so far. Was this just something to generate views and discussions or were you bored?

[ithomas94]

Too bad iTunes is such a bloated and laggy piece of software; Zune 3.0, however, is a surprisingly fast and swift media player with a nice UI.

[AbeFromWindsor]

I think that the ipod touch's biggest advantage is the fact that apple makes it. they throw the little apple logo on it and suddenly every hippie, environmental, "free thinking", "anti-establishment" stick it to the man wannabe has to have one. all of you people out there who think that apple is less of an evil empire than microsoft or think that apples are cool because thats what the rebel black sheep kids use are stupid. apple has made its money marketing itself as the good little brother of the evil microsoft corperation, the truth is microsoft is not so large because they are some evil empire that desires world domination, they make better products plain and simple. apple is kept aflot by this generation of spoiled kids spending their parents money trying to be counter culture and failing misseably

[docster87]

Even though it isn't a HDMI connection, iTouch & iPhone (and newer iPods) can connect to TVs. Somehow that is very much under reported and Apple has not pushed that option much in their ads. I actually prefer the analog TV connections, that way I can plug my iPhone into hotel TVs (that typically lack the newest connections).

[kelmon]

What annoys me about the Zune HD is that attaching it to the TV to play your HD video files is apparently not going to be possible with what comes in the box, despite the product's name, and is going to be relatively expensive to achieve. What it needs is a Zune to HDMI cable in the box. If it does that then it's definitely got something over the iPod, although I can appreciate what you are saying about an analog connection being convenient when traveling. However, HDMI is the future (well, present, really) so a device capable of playing HD files should have more longevity.

[DrtyDogg]

@kelmon: Your box didn't come with an HDMI cable? weird. . .

[AbeFromWindsor]

this is true kelmon, hdmi is the future of all connections in reality (not just multimedia) the newest hdmi's will have networking functions as well so within the next few years hdmi should be all you need to connect any object (a) to another object (b)

[edmalloy]

More of the patented Reisinger pot stirring.

I love my hybrid digital radio at home, however it requires a substantial antenna - and I live in the city!. I can't imagine a hand held device with a worthwhile antenna. Also, all of the channels that I listen to are available on my iPhone (3G or WiFi) or my iPod Touch (Wifi only), so there is little to be gained even if the HD radio actually worked. Sounds like a marketing gimmick, not an an engineering accomplishment.

That said, there will always be an audience for a non-Apple device. The question is, is that market economically viable?

edifer

[AbeFromWindsor]

yes there is the major issue you live in a city, wifi and 3g are readily available there but if you get into places like fort collins colorado there is a little less reliability when it comes to those connections. While i understand that 3G and wifi networks are constantly growing i don't want to rely on those to get radio. radio is free wifi costs me money, i don't think there is any contest there

[Get_a_life_Leo]

Couldn't give a toss about the HDTV connectivity - this is a portable device. However, might be interested in it if it had the level of Internet connectivity as the Touch. Can the Zune HD do email, web browsing, etc? Main advantage in hardware is the OLED screen. However, as pointed out, this is next years Zune (which is compared to last years iPod Touch. Microsoft took two years to respond to the iPod Touch????

[ksamber]

Yeah, it will have full web-browsing capabilities, according to its announcement on zune.net. I think the trick with the "late response" to the iPod touch, is maybe, with enough changes, the iPod will have to start responding to the advantages of a Zune. The Zune's gotta go more than keep up.

[Banshee1990]

Lets see the Iphone 3GS has released some of its specs there for iTouch specs and guess what no OLED screen. Here is Fanboyism OOOOOOOO it doesn't matter Apple will Catch up eventually.

[kelmon]

Not unless the stupid bastards at Microsoft release the Zune internationally. Seriously, is an international release really that hard to achieve? Everyone else seems to manage it.

With the current plans the Zune HD stands to annoy customers unless they already know exactly what they are getting. Most people will understand the "HD" component of the name to apply to High Definition Video and those people are going to be in for a shock if they expect (rightfully, in my opinion) that the Zune HD will be able to play HD video "out of the box". Sure, it will be able to play HD Radio (I'm honestly not sure of the demand for that but that's irrelevant) but having to buy a Zune dock and HDMI cable in order to playback HD video on your TV isn't nice. Why this stuff isn't apparently going to be in the box is beyond me. Let's hope they

[sanjayb]

If anything I hope the Zune HD will force Apple to add some of the Zune features to the Touch. I have a 1st gen Touch and I would love to watch HD podcasts (many from CNET) on my Touch. I can't currently do that. Plus the OLED screen sounds sweet. A GPS chip would also be nice. These features would make me upgrade.

I would like the Zune to succeed a bit. At least they would force Apple to better their products. However, I don't see the Zune HD really making a dent.

[dlowe402]

This is exactly Microsoft's problem. THEY DON'T INNOVATE! The comment "This device is created to go head to head with the iPod Touch" shows the mentality over at M$. It's all about playing "Catch Up" with them. When Apple came out with the iPod/iPhone/Touch...etc. it was innovation that made them so popular. That along with a good user experience. If M$ would come up with something fresh and new to jump ahead (and have it work correctly) they would actually be doing something. But, instead, to them it's about trying to beat others at their game. Isn't the tech industry supposed to be about innovation. Anyone can make a knock-off.

[myles taylor]

While I agree that anyone can make a knock-off, not anyone can make a good knockoff of a good product. Microsoft can do that, I'll give them that. They are good at competing in other people's markets.

[CrashPad63]

To futher Myles response, MS is relentless when they decide to pursue a market.
To the OP do not get caught up in the hype about MS innovation. Witness the progress they made in the game console market, and what is coming down the pipe shortly from their endeavors there.
And what exactly has Apple done to innovate anything on the Ipod Touch. Every part of that thing is a copy from some other shop.

[ithomas94]

Big talk for a company that ripped their main operating system's GUI off of Compiz.
Look up a video of OS X, and look up a video of Compiz. You will see similarities. Beryl came out before Aqua.

[Banshee1990]

Wow innovative well since they didn't invent the idea of The touch Phone idea or the multitouch capability at all if you want to know who the father of these machines are look at the past the Father of the Iphone or Uncle to the iTouch is the IBM Simon Launched in 1993. Their only Like 13 years behind far enough for apple to act like they invented the idea

[the Otter]

I think the most telling thing about this product is the promotional graphic. Don?t you think you might want to tell your UI designers to shrink the font just a touch, so you can actually fit things on the screen?

[ksamber]

If you are referring to the font in the photo of the new Zune, that's the standard style of the menu. All Zunes have that "large" font for the main menu. It's not all that big. That would be ridiculous.

[Synthmeister]

I think the Otter was referring to the fact that the menu font was too large to allow the word "Marketplace" to fit on the screen. That is a terrible lack of attention to design detail in a promotional picture that would never happen with Steve Jobs and the iPod.

[CrashPad63]

And you sir have to get a life out of Jobsy shadow.

[Synthmeister]

Hugh? If a Fortune 500 company with over $20 billion in the bank can't figure out a way to make a menu name fit on the screen of its latest, greatest device, that to me, is symptomatic of much deeper problems.

Forget about what Steve Jobs would or would not do. Any self-respecting project manager shouldn't let that kind of crap slip by. That's just plain bush league.

[johnny_ray3g]

seems pretty cool but i don't know...i mean, no matter what functionality the zune shells out....there's an app for that!!! pardon my pun.

[CrashPad63]

This what is so beautiful about them building the platform on CE. The thousands of Apps already available through Windows mobile app store!!!

[ksamber]

I have the first generation Zune from years and years ago, and I love that the upgrades to new software are free (the software on my "old" Zune is the same as that of the newest generation.) Not to mention that even the first generation had wifi capabilities, can now wirelessly sync, and also has access to the Zune Marketplace (equivalent of iTunes) from the device. It can identify songs heard on the radio, and automatically put them in your cart for later purchase.

Still, what Mac has yet to compete with is the Zune Pass--$14.99 a month for unlimited downloads and burn rights on 10 songs per month. The Pass can be used for 3 Zunes and 3 PCs. Truly ideal for music lovers. The Zune software is very user friendly for those of us who haven't and won't switch to a Mac.

The ONLY drawback in my opinion? The popularity of the iPods allow for TONS of accessories. I think the success of the Zune is just waiting for people to realize its capabilities.

[sdf0013]

You have nice valid points. But the zealots won't go there.

MS can't come out and say it, but they really are working towards an entertainment solution where you buy a piece of media once and can play it on multiple platforms (video, not games). This is why it's a big deal for the Zune to be able to support HD content out to a TV even though it can't display it on it's own screen. The current gen Zunes are the same. They can take files in 640x480 and downsample on the fly to 320x240 to fit the screen.

The real solution will be to buy a tv show once from the market place have it play 1080p on the xbox, 720p on a portable device, and either format on your PC (depending on your monitor). It's possible the Zune software would even transcode the 1080 file down to 720 as it loads onto the Zune. This is where I hope MS is going. I understand the challenge of pulling all the systems (and licensing contracts) together to make this happen. It would be a lot easier for the consumer. How many different times do we have to buy our movies and tv shows? I think I have 3 versions of Iron Man and Batman Begins now.

[Random_Walk]

re: "...and burn rights on 10 songs per month."

So in other words, you're paying $1.49 USD on each song you get to keep, you have to buy 10 of them a month (whether you want to or not) and the rest is just stuff that you can listen to until your stop paying for the sub, at which point it becomes inert and unusable data sitting on your hard disk.

Sort of like the old CD "clubs" of yesteryear... you get 10 of them for nearly nothing up front, but have to buy x amount more at full market price later - whether you want to or not.

Note that this isn't a kick against Microsoft per se, but against the whole subscription model. It basically guarantees an income stream for the seller, with very little advantage to you, the consumer.

[dhavleak]

@ Random_Walk

Yes, that's right, and it's a Good Deal. As long as you're a subscriber, you have all the music you want available all the time, and when you want to discontinue it, you're not left with zip.

The pros and cons are clear -- it's simply up to the user to decide if it works for them. For example, there's nothing stopping someone from buying tracks from Amazon or iTunes and using them with a Zune if they so desire. Choice is a good thing.

[monkeyfun14]

@Random_Walk

$1 per song $5 for the subscription whats the issue here?

Especially to people who get bored of music quickly.

I seldom listen to a song forever.

[Banshee1990]

@ random people spend money to rent movies via Netflix are they getting upset that they dont get to keep the movies they rented after they end their subscription. Come on it Is a businisses and IF you do not want to use the subscription base you can buy your music for $0.99 per song. The Marketplace gives you a Choice and that is what they think will work.

[cvaldes1831]

Without an app store, the Zune will be dead in the water. End of discussion

[CrashPad63]

Oh but they do have an app store. Windows mobile at last count had 30000+ apps ready for this launch. Windows CE means the existing apps there will work on Zune HD. You gotta love MS for their foresight.

[cvaldes1831]

Sorry, according to this Cnet article

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13526_3-10250240-27.html?tag=mncol

there will be no app store (at least initially).

[cpopken]

I personally don't care about apps. Most people are probably only going to listen to music on it and watch movies anyway. The Apple app commercials are starting to annoy the hell out of me. Most of the apps I have seen are completely worthless. The touch didn't have an app store when it launched and it did ok.

[DrtyDogg]

cvaldes1831: Sorry, according to the amazon posting

http://gizmodo.com/5276921/zune-hd-amazon-listing-hints-at-games-apps

there will be an app store.

[S4NDM4NN]

If it is true that Windows CE apps will work on the Zune HD who needs an app store. There are already tons of readily available free apps.

[cokeguy17]

I think the pure fact that it comes from Microsoft is enough to sink it. I've owned two PocketPCs in the past and they were terrible; slow, buggy, unintuitive, and constantly crashing. I currently have an iPhone, and after an initial two weeks of hating its keyboard, I'm now in love with it and doubt I could ever use anything else. If the Zune was made by a more reliable contender such as Sony or Samsung, it would have a better chance, but I'm not prepared to have my music player crash as consistently as my Windows PC does.

[The_Calvinator]

Gotta love the ignorance in this statement. I own a Zune and have been enjoying it for about 2 years, I have had no problems with it crashing aside from the new years thing that fixed itself and didnt effect me anyway, i have dropped it in water and still have had absolutely no problems with it. I can not only put every cd i own on it i can get songs from friends and it also acts as a great backup for music. When i bought a new laptop all i had to do was download the zune software and upload my songs back on my computer. Something you cannot do with an Ipod. And despite your idea that anything microsoft will crash and that everything made by apple is impervious to damage of any kind. in the time ive had my zune each one of my friends is atleast on their second ipod.

[DrtyDogg]

funny iphones have a reputation of becoming slow, unresponsive and crashing a lot.

[ithomas94]

-_-
Typical Apple fanboy.
PocketPC's?? You realize that the Zune HD will have an Nvidia Tegra chip, which is going to enable the Zune to be much more responsive than other PMPs.
And what about iTunes? Compared to Zune 3.0, iTunes 8 is a slow, bloated mess.

[Synthmeister]

1. FM radio didn't make the the old Zune competitive and HD radio will not sell the new Zune. Why didn't they add something that was actually useful, like GPS or camera or even an optional Bluetooth keyboard?
2. Has anyone noticed MS didn't even demo the browser or e-mail? Now that is amazing! (that it's not ready to go!)
3. HD content with no HD screen? The screen has LESS resolution than the current iPod touch. Why waste space on resolution your device can't display.
4. Fall? This thing should have been out the door six months ago. By fall, Apple will probably have 60,000 apps, a 64GB touch, and a slew of hardware add-ons, game controllers, keyboards, etc.

Apple's "closed" system allows lots of people to make money off the iPod, especially developers and peripheral makers. And that money making machine will only accelerate with OS 3.0. What's more, all those developers are getting a crash course in developing for Mac since they use the same core OS.

[Banshee1990]

Lets see The oled screen looks a lot nicer then the LCD that iTouch uses and will probably still use for a year or two from now. The flash capacity will most likely be the same. And guess what the Aspect ratio of the iPhone is 3:2 and Zune Hd is actually wide screen 16:9 so the gained resolution ur talking about is lost in black around the video. So know you have the same widescreen size and aspect ratio but ur still using LCD and not the superior OLED.
iTouch=OOOOOO cool I have an apps store with only 2 usefull the rest are either stupid or do not work properly.
The only thing Im hoping for is that the Zune Hd is A little cheaper or around the same price though. That would actually be cool because the features it comes with will be greater or higher quality. Not talking about the HD radio, but if the Zune does have the Nvidia Tegra then it would be able to run better apps then the iPhone-iTouch. The oled screen will allow for better battery life.

[rhsc]

ITT: Apple bias

[shycelticwitch]

I think it will not challenge the iPod at all. It will be just another "wannabeamac" product from MS. Silly rabbit...

[John Elberling]

This Zune vs. Touch hype is a joke. no Zune apps = no chance. it's a portable media player vs. a pocket computer, not even in the same class of device. and no, while the Zune runs Win CE it is not running WinMobile 6.x so it can't run those apps, not even the small number designed for touch screen UI. i mean, no email/twitter! get real.

[CrashPad63]

Ahh yes it can. You just are blindly following th Apple doctrine. Dont worry even you can eventually be woken up to "think different" just stop with the koolaid!!!

[DrtyDogg]

I didn't see the release that stated no apps. huh, must have missed it.

[docster87]

@drtydogg, in THIS article, it states that 'currently' Zune has no app store. Didn't you read THIS article???

[rapier1]

I think what some people are missing is going to be the integration with the XBOX Live ecosystem. I think you're goign to see quite a few games and apps for the Zune HD pretty quickly.

[AbeFromWindsor]

the key word is "currently" if the zune hd was released already this would be an issue but seeins as it is not and will not be for a number of months it is a non issue

[Banshee1990]

I forgot you needed a store in order to use apps, because look at linux people make apps for that and it doesnt have a store to buy it from, but whatever.