Comments on: Just how sexist is nudity in gaming?

Nudity in gaming is becoming a hot-button issue. CNET Readers sound off in a debate over whether nudity--or sexually suggestive actions--objectifies or degrades women.

[usualsuspect87]

i don't understand how anything in a video game or really even in real life could be demeaning unless specifically targeted at one person. If i bought a video game and it said that I, specifically by name, am a fat ass, that would probably be demeaning, but come on, i'd probably just laugh. I'm a male and if there were a game that somehow involved an endless sea of ***** I probably wouldn't buy it (unless it was halo 3 odst, i will put up with just about anything for more multiplayer maps), but i would in no way feel like men can't get ahead in the world. Maybe these women should take issue with actual prostitutes instead of virtual ones, but regardless, just because there are female hookers in this world, it doesn't mean i assume every female is a *****. Ridiculous.

[usualsuspect87]

Apparently cnet is a believer in censorship. First word rhymes with "rocks", 2nd word rhymes with "boar".

[d3vildog69]

Welcome to the PC (Politicly Correct) world... We are on the same wave length.

[sanjayb]

Remember when ***** just meant cat?? :-P

[screamapillar]

@ usualsuspect87
Wonderful. Another man that doesn't get the issue. Clearly people like you valuing me only for my physical assets is my fault and i should just suck it up - oh wait, that's clearly the only value you see for me anyway.

My concern is about a culture that actively perpetuates the perception that a women's worth is only as much as her cup size. You clearly either don't understand or agree and want to hide behind the same oppresive ******** as the music industry.

Well done, you're a certified bigot. Oh i'm sorry, did that demean you? No, you see, you don't understand the term demean if you think that did. I described your behaviour. I judged you on your views. But a women in a game whose role is just to be the topless chick - that is demeaning. When you figure out the difference, then you have made a step forward into humanity.

[d3vildog69]

Just another reason for people to complain about something they feel is wrong, grow up. Its not like you haven't seen it before. although with some people that comment here it wouldn't be surprising.

[bousozoku]

Nudity for nudity's sake makes no sense. It's not a matter of whether it's okay to look and people in the U.S.A. have an odd sense about these things. There were people in Cincinnati who once wanted to clothe naked Rodin sculptures because they were supposedly pornographic.

Generally, the way women are used in U.S. media is objectification and they should either make it equal among genders or put it away.

[screamapillar]

OMG, someone gets it. Brava!

To bad almost everyone else on this forum thinks it is about whether people get offended or not.

There are always going to be people that objectify a women even if she's fully dressed walking down the street - they are sick and need some help if they are to be constructive members of the community. However, starting the scene with a woman being objectified simply justifies that sort of behaviour. It sends a message of this is the only thing to value the woman for.

That is why it is not relevant how people 'react' to something - we don't want legit art or narrative destroyed by people's offence any more than we want objectification to end.

[ratm247]

the game is labeled as mature, and all the disgusting content that causes it to have a mature label is clearly listed on the packaging.

here is the bottom line, scientific fact: If you buy a game that is clearly marked as having nudity, and you are offended by nudity, you are a factual idiot.

i dont buy a cosmo magazine and complain about the articles being sexist. i just dont buy them.

[screamapillar]

Omg, and right afterwards someone who DOES NOT GET IT. ratm247 - objectification of women isn't about whether or not someone out there finds it offensive or not. It isn't about not buying the article. It isn't someone's opinion. It is exploitation and perpetuating a perception of women that is not appropriate in this day and age. Just like it isn't appropriate to automatically depict any person with dark skin as a criminal - why? Because it is freaking racist, that's why. It is not appropriate to sexualise children either, why? Because it encourages the perception of children as sexual objects.

It is not appropriate to depict women as having their sexual assets as their only value for the same reasons. I'm not sure I can dumb this down for you any more.

You have completely missed the entire point and views like yours are exactly why sexism and other predjudices like racism are alive and thrivingly well in the world. If you honestly believe that it is just a matter of labelling the product and then bam you can be as sexist and racist and hateful as you want, then you are a sexist, racist, bigot. You'll need to come to terms with that or else try to understand the situation.

[Riquez-001]

I like naked women.
Sorry about that. I just do.

[Angmarr]

never be sorry about that!

[screamapillar]

@Riquez
So? I take it you are a healthy male and or female lesbian etc etc. I'm a hetrosexual female and I too can see great beauty in the female body. That doesn't suddenly make it ok to objectify them.

Don't apologise for liking naked women, that is normal. Just make sure you see more than that. Don't place all of her value in how she looks naked. And in a game, as an npc, there is no reason for her to be naked. And if she's naked just so you can gawk at her so the game company can sell games, I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you, but that is objectification and you are complicit in it. If you simply like naked women but are also opposed to seeing them treated like meat sacks, then you aren't objectifying them. Does that make sense?

[Angmarr]

DUH of cause they objectify women!!!!!

Ever seen the SAME EXACT armor that a dude wears on a chick in MMORPGS?? .... it transforms from a suit of armor to a fricking Bikini!!!!

In "perfect world international" you can actually ADJUST the boob size!?!?!?

now if you ask me whether i think this is wrong ... LOL = P

[CyR00k]

Nudity is never sexist. People are sexist; images and 3D models are not. So if you look at and image of a naked women and you think she is an object then for you and for you only is she on object. The interpretation of any, and I stress any, visual data is entirely in the mind of the subject. So when a woman claims that seeing an image of a nude woman makes her feel (a subjective belief state) that nude women are objects that indicates nothing about society and everything about her own prejudices. What she is actually asserting is that because she has objectified (and constructed a negative opinion of) the woman in the image (and by extension all women who would pose nude) she believes that other people are prejudice in the same way that she is. So, ultimately anyone who looks at an image and claims that it is sexist is in fact a sexist themselves.

[roachbrain]

Ok so according to your logic if I were to make a video game depicting two naked 8 year olds going at it That's not wrong unless your a pedophile or if you do find it wrong there is a chance that your a pedophile too? Lame...

Let's face it with every GTA want a be it's become the norm to expect some kind of sexist attitude toward women. It's not artistic, or creative, if you think this stuff should just be ignore then you basically can't complain when things really go out of hand. Sooner or later the good guy hero will become a corny idea and the only way to regen your health is by getting a quickie from a hooker while you reload your rocket launcher before the next school bus drives by.

[screamapillar]

Brava roachbrain - you hit the nail on the head.

Look not all nudity is sexist but nudity can be. All swans are birds but not all birds are swans.

Nudity CAN be sexist

[kelmon]

The thing is, I suspect that it is men that are designing the nude women in games based upon their own fantasies. If it was women doing it then I wouldn't be so bothered since clearly they themselves aren't bothered about it. So, yes, I do think that nudity in games objectifies women.

[kalel130]

Who cares? The movie was made in '74 (back in the days of "stewardess" and all sorts of 'sexist' titles and when skirts were mandatory for many occupations). The game is from a mobsters perspective and let's face it, these guys aren't the cream of the crop. The game represents 'real life.' And if a mobster were to go to a strip club, there would be naked women there, who had chosen to be a stripper. Please people don't argue against the developer... go out and find a stripper to yell at for being 'degrading.'

[adonn78]

Well you seem to be against female nudity and for male nudity. If you want to see a ***** dangling go look at gay porn. or play metal grear solid 2 where Raiden is ll nakey. Its so funny how puritan society is. Why is violence okay but sex is not? What is wrong with being naked? Why is it okay to shoot someone in the head or gouge someone's eyeballs out with a dental istrument like in the movie hostel but if someone flashes some boobs people start getting upset. I'm jsut saying there isn;t anything wrong with nudity or being turned on or having sex. violence should be discouraged and nudity and sex should be encouraged. That is why I like games like leisure suit larry.y ou are trying to get laid and not kill someone. Anyway, GTA 4is a great game. And if you thing boobies are wrong then I don't want to be right.

[screamapillar]

Sex is not wrong, being naked is not wrong. 'Boobies' aren't wrong.

The reason people get upset when some breats are flashed about is simple: women have been oppressed and objectified for centuries and finally have a voice and they're sick of it. We fought hard for a voice. Why should my value only be my cup size? Why is it when there are two npc's, both with the exact same role, the female one is in a bikini? It is disproportionate and it is valuing the women only for her body - hence the term devaluing or degrading, meaning that it has reduced the multiple values the women has to being only one: sex/turning you on/etc

It isn't about what offends people or anything like that. Try to consider, WHY an educated, liberal woman might be offended and get your head out of that mindset that believes only prudes care about nudity.

The debate about violence is a legit one too but not the question of this forum: the question was, is nudity in gaming sexist? The answer: yes, yes it is. There are many reasons why it is, but that doesn't suddenly justify it or make it ok.

The worst thing here is that as an avid gamer myself, I've got to the point where I hardly notice the constant sexism. Why? Because it is so rampant in all forms of media.

So again, I'm not necessarily saying remove it all either - I'm just answering the question posed. Is it sexist? Yes.

[Beruda]

There are two reasons there is mostly female nudity in video games,

1. The demographic is predominately male.
2. Teenage and 20 something males have very few outlets to see naked women.

Have a nice day :)

[Angmarr]

+1

[screamapillar]

And the question was: is nudity in games sexist? So then you would agree it is?

[screamapillar]

Are you saying teenage and 20 somethings are not aware of the internet? Or say, lingere catalogs? There are SO many opetions and outlets for people to see naked women we are bombared with it whether you want to see it or not.

Look, it is not actually healthy for teenage and 20 somethings to see women constantly portrayed in this manner. It would be one thing if it was uncommon, only contextual scenarios that added to a narrative and created an immersive game... but it isn't. It is purely exploitative.

And the demographic may be mainly male but 'mainly' isn't even close to 'vast majority'. Female gamers are very common but there are a couple reasons why we don't often complain about such things:
1. We are so bombared with the constant objectification of women that it seems pointless - this is a sad situation. It is a scenario where the person is so constantly crushed they are despondant.
2. Sometimes, it is done in a manner that is 'playful' and enjoyed by the women. Perhaps it allows her to be this perfect, sexy beauty in a game. This is a self-esteem issue due to the constant ridiculous expectations of women being forever youthful and perfect. But, could just be a bit of fun too, I don't want to over-dramatise.
3. Fear of identification - I'm not sure how many of you guys have played a Shim in an MMO but the level of harassment one gets, particularly if it is found out you are actually a woman, is beyond extreme. I have had to deal with stalkers in MMOs. I go in a game to have fun. Why should I have to leave just because of some prick?
4. Fear of ridicule - so many people don't understand the issue and women are plum afriad to speak up
5. They don't care - not all women care about women's rights. Perhaps they are too young to understand or too jaded.

These are a few reasons, hope it helps you understand where the woman is coming from in all of this. There is a place for nudity, sexuality, flirting, all of those things - but it needs to start with respect. Most games do not start there.

[boopiejones]

by nature, men are visual creatures. they are turned on by looking at the naked female form. there was a study i read about a few years back that proved that a man looking at a pair of breasts was equivalent to 10 minutes of cardio in terms of how it made his heart pump.

women are not wired the same as men in this regard. the average woman isn't simply turned on by looking at a naked guy. there must be other context involved in order for her to get turned on - she must actually know/like the guy.

in addition, considering the fact that the vast majority of gamers are men, and you can easily see why female nudity in video games is much more prevalent than male nudity.

personally, i don't agree with nudity if it is totally random just to sell video games. but i am ok with it if it fits into the plot of the game and the game is appropriately labeled "adult"

[VWXYZadam]

I don't think nudity is a major problem, its still kinda rare. I do however think that some games like the newly released X-Blades dress up their female main character is suggestive clothes its VERY clear what the idea is.

But some games need it! I recently got to play Mass Effect and the dreaded "sex scene" in that game was done very tasteful! To be fair, there where no nudity. The sex was with a character in the game I spend time building a relationship with and it was a natural and realistic thing to come.

GTA (Grand Theft Auto) is another game I think should keep the nudity. GTA 4 had strip clubs, but again, they where made to look and feel the way a strip club looks and feel. You can then argue how strip clubs is objegating woman in the first place, but if thats the case you should really fight against the strip clubs. RockStar Games is trying to rebuild a realistic city, if you can ban strip clubs in the US, I'm pretty sure GTA 5 will not feature any strip clubs.

[roachbrain]

If they want realism were is the gym Nikko could have really used one. So they take away the barber, gym, anything ells that made GTA san adreas fun and kept the strip clubs......Does that sound the least bit sexist? So then godfather game goes one step further and now there getting pinned to the wall as pioneers in polygon boobs?

[zclayton2]

Maybe I'm sheltered, but when there has been nudity in a video game the resolution is so low i'm left with, "Why did they bother?" Meh. Its a gimmick to generate controversy and free advertising and it usually does. Some people will react to anything.

[Dr_Zinj]

I loved the statement, "Pornography is shown to have many negative side effects, like reduced fidelity in marriage." It happens to be false by the way, because it is not a cause and effect relationship. They are often found in association, but are not causual in nature.

Turning to pornography, and infidelity in marriage, are consequences of a poor relationship. Most cases of infidelity are a result of one partner not providing for the sexual needs of the other. The message is quite clear when the response to sexual ovatures is frequently, "Not tonight" or "I don't feel like it."

Yes, video game depictions of nudity are sexually biased. More men by video games than women, more men by pornography than women. Ergo, sex sells to the male demographic. It's good business.

Almost all video games depicting people engage in objectivications of people. So does every Shakespearian play. Objectification within a game, a play, a movie, or a story is not a bad thing; it's a means of readily identifying characters and their roles. Transferrence of that objectification to real life is entirely different. People complain about stereotyping all the time; but stereotyping serves a good purpose and promotes self-preservation by reduction of processing time to identify friends from enemies. The problem with stereotyping is unthinkingly using it in all situations, rather than just emergencies.

[screamapillar]

"Pornography is shown to have many negative side effects, like reduced fidelity in marriage." - Yeah I don't know where that line was pulled from either - I've read dozens of academic papers on this sort of thing and yes, one may occur when the other is occuring but they don't necessarily cause each other. Generally it is the marriage on the rocks that would lead to porn not vice versa. Marriage is the least of my concerns when relating to the problems of porn. The biggest issues with porn are around unrealistic expectations of sex and, again, exploitation of (mainly) women.

Indeed I agree with you Dr Zinj, there are some studies that suggest that two adults consenting and watching porn together can be constructive for a relationship.

But again, from your response Dr Zinj, I take it you agree that nudity in gaming is sexist?

[d--keller]

Of course it objectifies them. There isn't a movie or video game out there that couldn't be done without nudity. It is never integral to the story. If you watch Varsity Blues on TNT, can you not tell when they are in a strip club? Does anyone really need to see nips just to be sure?

I doubt it. I think it's more because I like boobies.

That's why you don't see naked dudes in the movies or in video games. If nudity were necessary, it would go both ways. Thankfully it's not. I don't need my wife thinking, "Geez, Brad Pitt is huge."

[jabari]

It maybe an unpopular opinion but I think women cause the problem of sexism. In many cultures women walk around with no tops and there is no problem. How many games/ movies are there with men topless? Are those sexist? Why is it acceptable for one but not the other. Its because sexist and exploitation is in the eyes of the beholder. We are told that women are this holy thing that only the privileged men can partake in which creates an unnatural situation. Just because we tell men they are not to feel sexual or look at women the won't. So when women act "prudish" men look for other ways to find release, whether its pros, strippers, porn, or now video games. Then women get mad and say they are being objectified because someone saw an open market and exploited it with a substitute. If people from what they needed from the women in their lives, i.e. a normal sexual relationship not one built around blackmail and control, they would not go to these pros or strippers or whatever else. Happy men don't cheat(same for happy women) and you can't blame video games or movies for showing a reflection on our society.

[screamapillar]

jabari - You aren't seriously blaming the mass exploitation and objectification of women - as being due to women being "prudish". *** is wrong with you? Are you just so completely out of touch with women that you actually believe your own bull? Have you ever even had a conversation with a woman? I doubt it because your understanding of them is so backwards.

I suppose in your little world every girl that gets raped was asking for it too. So the fact that 80yo women get raped too, that is clearly grannies fault for being a prude huh? I suppose kids getting defiled is the kids fault too, because, you know, they shouldn't look so cute in that outfit. I suppose it is my fault that I got stalked in an MMO just for being a female, that is clearly me that has a problem for not giving cybz to the complete stranger, not at all the complete stranger at fault.

Women aren't telling men not to be sexual creatures - objectification is about men forcing upon women that their only value in the whole world is sex. Women LIKE being desired by men but that doesn't mean they want that as their ONLY value. That's objectification and you, as one who clearly objectifies women through your ignorant view of "if she won't give me sex she has the problem" - you seriously need some education on this lest you actually talk to a woman. Not that I"m not hoping she doesn't give you a black eye... but then, I don't really advocate violence.

[markb1967]

What a stupid story, so many more important things to cover that this. Simple, you don't like the game, don't buy it!

[screamapillar]

shows that you of all people need to consider the issue if you honestly believe it is about people getting offended or not and thus an issue of buying the game or not.

[esig1]

Come on, sex scene in a game considered appalling...

Cause a women has never used sex to get what she wanted... Yeap never happened... nope... no fn way..
Really now......

[screamapillar]

So suddenly that justifies objectifying the entire demographic? Nice. You're a tribute to your gender.

Do you honestly believe that the world is evenly balanced? That it is ok to treat women as if sex is their only value?

It isn't about if the sex scene is appaling, I wish you would even ATTEMPT to understand the issue. Perhaps start by reading the question: is nudity in gaming sexist? Yes. It is.

[jtmcduffie]

Context always plays a role - though personally I think that all games objectify the participants regardless of role/person/persona - isn't that the whole point of role playing games?