Comments on: Nudity can't make a bad game good

Don Reisinger recently played a game on the PS3 containing nudity. It didn't do much for him.

[FreddieT]

Quite honestly, I totally fail to see what the big deal is with a few "topless" women (characters in the game, not even real women) walking around in a brothel. Seems like the typical American overreaction to nudity while dismissing the negative impact of violence to me.

[CrimsonCantab]

Let me first say, I love video games. I'm not one of those haters out there who think all our society's woes come from them. But I do believe they have some effect.

I am not trying to dismiss the fact that violence has a negative impact: I would go as far to say that many of those mass shootings we hear about at schools and elsewhere can find some roots in video games, particularly the ones with gratuitous violence like GTA. But where I disagree with you, and where I agree with Don, is that female nudity, particularly in this context, IS unneeded and degrading to women. Pornography is shown to have many negative side affects, liked reduced fidelity in marriage. There's already too much of it on the internet; and I find it harder and harder to be a gamer when games are headed in the same direction.

[sneaky0704]

@CrimsonCantab
Here is something you should read up on, first link I could quickly find there are more.
http://www.pbs.org/kcts/videogamerevolution/impact/myths.html

The myth that violent games leads to violent children has been debunked.

[SteveW928]

It isn't so much an argument of how bad or damaging the nudity might be... but about how blatant a marketing tactic it is by studios who increasingly rely on it, rather than any game development talent. I think Don was spot-on with this article. Though, I completely agree with you that some of the violence is worse. Some of the themes and messages of the games (again, more than just saying violence in general) is far more damaging.

I was reading an article recently about the impact of sexuality in the media on teen pregnancy... and it found that the message and theme have just as much of an impact as the how overt the sexuality was portrayed... ie: Friends had just as much of an impact as shows with actual nudity. What was important was how sexuality was portrayed. I would guess the same would apply for violence. ie: GTA even without the gore is probably worse than some super-gorey shoot the zombie game.

[repete66211]

"nudity IS...degrading to women"

"Pornography is shown to have many negative side affects, liked reduced fidelity in marriage. There's already too much of it on the internet"

Parents, now you see what can happen if you allow your children to enroll in Women's Studies courses.

[Renegade Knight]

@CrimsonCantab

We are born naked. Hospital gowns leave little to the imagination. The problem isn't the nudity so much as the reaction too it. Clearly it's a problem for some people. It seems to be a natural state for all kids under a certain age. Biblically the reaction against it is how God clued in that something was amiss in Eden. God thought it was fine. Then you have the tie in to violence when wack jobs decide to take some folks with them when they go. The problem there isn?t the game. It?s the person making a choice. That they like a certain kind of game and how they play that game may give you insight and a clue, but they don?t define the person. We are who we are. You can play the white knight or black knight, but which one you play depends on what you brought to the table.

As for the game I'd agree. Nudity can't save a bad game. On the other hand when it came to the book the movies were based on a graphic and frank portrait of the world or at least the authors vision of it was right there, in your face and large as life. I thought the book was good, the movie (rated as one of the bst movies of all time) was ho hum. Since this game falls outside my interest it's a non issue for me. One funny thing. The nutidy in the movie was about the most memorable part there as well. Strange.

[infinitely]

He makes a good point in the article that it is using women's bodies to sell copies of a game. That alone should be a reason to decry it. There's nothing wrong with nudity, but this is objectification of women. You don't see any nude guys in video games, do you?

[calculatorwatch]

what is the big deal? i mean i can see the opinion that using nudity in a video game doesn't make up for it being a ****** game and it all boils down to a cheap way to sell more copies but this is exactly what has been in movies for like decades now, it had to come to video games sometime

i'm not saying this is a bad opinion, just that the opinion and the game itself is nothing original or special, if you wrote an article about how sex and nudity is detrimental in todays media in general no one would take it as an interesting opinion so that's exactly how i perceive this article

[Lerianis3]

by CrimsonCantab April 10, 2009 8:16 AM PDT
Let me first say, I love video games. I'm not one of those haters out there who think all our society's woes come from them. But I do believe they have some effect.

I am not trying to dismiss the fact that violence has a negative impact: I would go as far to say that many of those mass shootings we hear about at schools and elsewhere can find some roots in video games, particularly the ones with gratuitous violence like GTA. But where I disagree with you, and where I agree with Don, is that female nudity, particularly in this context, IS unneeded and degrading to women. Pornography is shown to have many negative side affects, liked reduced fidelity in marriage. There's already too much of it on the internet; and I find it harder and harder to be a gamer when games are headed in the same direction.
______________________________

Cut the crap. Pornography has only been 'shown' to have those effects by the religious idiots and the sex-haters. The only studies done that have been BY THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD have shown that pornography has NO negatives to it, and a bunch of positives.

Keep your bull on another board where people would be stupid enough to fall for it, and realize that seeing females as sexual objects is not 'degrading' to them. That is partially what they are: sexual objects. If they weren't, then no man would want to stick the ween in the ***** and make more humans!

[mitchell2percent]

OP: completely true

[DarkerRaul]

While I don't necessarily agree that nudity in any form is pornography, I do think that the context of the scene is pornographic, if the player "was greeted by a woman offering me sexual favors". That is disgusting and offensive, and while female nudity does not degrade women, this scene certainly would degrade women whether the character was nude or not.

[pablouk1]

Don't even consider trying The Godfather II. It's pathetic on a number of levels.

This is a comment you could say about most games recently. Over hyped rushed out cash cows.

[SteveW928]

Amen!
Most of the good game I've seen lately are by platform specific (the developer took the time to really utilize the console, rather than just porting lowest common denominator), and by smaller studios who aren't just relying on marketing hype to sell the game (and, as we now see.... ever increasing tactics like sex and violence, rather than good gaming).

The sad news is that many of the immature gamer fans fall for it. So, in many ways, it is the immature gamers who are responsible for the increasingly sad state of gaming. If no one bought the junk, they would be forced to actually work for a living.

[Renegade Knight]

@SteveW928

Most everthing that's based on a franshise isn't that good. Orginal titles seem to work out best for game quality. The console specific ones they are competing for the "One game to make everone buy my console" so they do focus on good gaming. Everone wants the next Halo.

[digitalhecht]

On a related note, the provided link to the list of "nudity games" includes a great majority of bore fests and overall flops. So there is some truth in the title of this article.

[every_name_taken]

Why is the teaser for this article "Don Reisinger recently played a game on the PS3 containing nudity. It didn't do much for him." Do the XBox 360 and PC versions have the nudity removed? If not, why single out one platform in particular for your witch hunt?

[fcz1]

He probably singled out the PS3 version because that was the one EA sent him. Read the first line of the article.

[SteveW928]

It may well be innocent, but Don certainly doesn't have a very good track record for his reporting on the PS3. However, this makes my point of debate with him in so many other articles that much more relevant. This game is one of the STUPID PORT type games that in other articles, Don supports so strongly. Another good example of cr*'p game development, with an included 'marketing' to try and sell it. For once, I agree with Don though... maybe he's finally seeing the light. A good developer actually needs to make a good game... it will then sell lots whether it is on 1 platform or all, whether it contains nudity, language, violence, or not. All this stuff is just being done to try and cover up lazy, sloppy game development.

[MosX]

Why are you making a big deal about the fact that it's not rated AO? Do you want a mature game that uses nudity tastefully to be banned from stores completely? (AO is essentially a banning since no major stores sell games rated that way.)

[Lerianis3]

You have a point about A/O. Frankly, major stores should be REQUIRED to sell A/O games in their stores and just ask for identification when they are selling them from the person who is buying them.

It's just a another form of censorship with A/O when no business will sell those titles.

[agreddon]

I don't think he's making that much of a point that he wants the game banned as the point that if there are going to be ratings there should be a clear defining mark of what is in one game vs another. Personally though, I think the article would have been better if he had stuck to his major point, that sticking nudity in a game for its own sake isn't going to distract from it being a bad game overall. Like with Manhunt and Manhunt 2: the problem wasn't that those games were violent, as one reviewer rightfully pointed out. It was that they were _only_ violent. The rest of the game was about as exciting as a cold fish.

Don, have you thought about how silly it is for you to be judgmental of a game developer using nudity to sell its games... when you write articles about nudity to garner more clicks for your blog?

Sounds like you've found a game you don't like. Whoop-de-dooo. Otherwise, your article is pretty vacuous.

The more interesting social discussion is not about the game, but about your apparent concern about gratuitous nudity, but not much concern about gratuitous violence. It's a sad default value system.

[repete66211]

"The more interesting social discussion is not about the game, but about your apparent concern about gratuitous nudity, but not much concern about gratuitous violence."

+1 My thoughts exactly. If the game sucks is sucks. Don't blame it on some cartoon anatomy.

[rayzoredge]

Mmm... pixelated bewbiez.

[theonlybuster]

First off the Godfather franchise (I guess you can call it a franchise since there's more than 1) has always been a cheap knock off of the beloved Grand Theft Auto series, BUT the people who play it are fans of the Godfather. I personally don't like the game or movie for that matter, but it's like the developers said, this is how they imagined it to be. It's not like they were trying to make the game as close to the movie as possible. Of course you have to bring some aspects of the movie into the game, but the way people walk around, and the things said and done are their interpretation on how they believe things went down.
As for the rating, I don't see a single thing wrong with rating it M (Mature); as far as I'm aware of there's no visible sex act performed, no "hot coffee" to unveil, just a couple topless chicks. And hey they're breasts, boobs, ta-tas, hooters, bazookahs, we ALL know what they look like even hidden behind a turtle-neck sweater we know. Now it would be a different story if genitals were showing.
The games rated M, you know M rating meaning "intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language" and unless that's exactly what it sounds like.
But of course this is my opinion.

[nicmart]

Maybe not, but it can make a stupid girl interesting.

[Chaosthoery]

I honestly agree.

[mitchell2percent]

damn right, this guy knows what hes talking about

[sneaky0704]

Wow, what a boring article. I can't believe I wasted my time actually reading it. Nice use of the word "Nudity" to lure in readers. Really though, it was a set of boobs why the reaction? The one thing I hate about the US is our total aversion to nudity. It's the freaking human body people, its natural, and I for one don't mind looking at a set of boobs.

I have to also add I have no issues with violence in video games as well. It's the parents job to keep violent games away from their kids, though, if they don't want them to play them.

As for Don's issue with the rating given to the game, which he seemed to make a big point about. Was the nudity "prolonged", was it "graphic", if not then I think "sexual content" defines it just fine. Get off your horse Don, visit a gentlemen's club and write about something interesting.

[sythara]

So the word Nudity lured you into reading the article? Does that mean you would buy a game because it has nudity too?

[sneaky0704]

No I wouldn't buy a game just because it has nudity, but I have no problems with it being in there if the game is enjoyable.

Here is a follow up question though, do you think having a pair of breasts in a game would be such a big deal if the US were a little more open minded?

[Renegade Knight]

@sythara

Good point. I was wondering what game sucked so bad that nudity couldn't save it. For me to be drawn in it would have to be "worst game of the year" because ho hum boring games aren't good reading.

So yup, the title drew me in.

[CanadianKat]

AO is roughly the equivalent to rating something X-- are you saying that you felt that this game was closer to pornographic than simply... well, showing some pointless nudity? Modern movies often put in a gratuitous sex scene when they're bad, and routinely get rated R (generally accepted as the equivalent of M) for that. Hell, topless women can show up in PG13 movies. What's so awful about them being in an M rated game?

Are you going back to "all games are for children" or something? Or are you complaining that the ESRB needs to rethink what makes up its AO rating? I think a "mature" audience can handle a few topless women. (The article title is right, though... nudity doesn't make a bad game good any more than pointless sex makes a movie experience better.)

[Randomletters1]

"Will more games feature digital breasts to titillate an audience..."

Really? You go all Puritan in the article and then finish with this grade-school bit? While i agree that nudity doesn't make games good, complaining about it won't stop ****** dev teams from throwing it in to try and sell a few more copies.

Three words for you, by the way: God Of War. Also rated M. Quite a bit of nudity, off-camera sex as a mini-game, and aside from that, the best title around when it was released. All I can say is, as long as the game is good, hooray for boobies.

[rucknrun]

Why single out the PS3? Did Microsoft sponsor this article?

[fcz1]

I don't think he's singling out the PS3, just stating what system he played it on.

[sankoz]

Another pointless, pointless, pointless and not to mention very uninformative game-related article from Don.

[grissomb]

Nudity as a brothel is gratuitous. The Brothel itself is- so the nudity is more "realism" than anything. Also- being "based on" something doesn't mean "follows exactly" --- based on can be just using the idea. People often attach too much depth to the phrase

[DavidL65]

How typical. Blood, gore and violence... no problem... but oh, show some boobs and it makes headlines! What a screwed up world we live in.

[invisible21]

Cnet, please stop allowing Don's rants on your site. I have read nothing but whiny, uninformative drivel from him. I can't believe he had to write a small novel to get this point across. Also, his bio picture makes him look kind of like a serial killer.

[ccrownfan]

Agreed!

[stepyourgameup]

All games should be required to have nudity.

[jmadison38]

I agree with the comments about porn in excess (emphasis on "excess") having potential negative effects, and think it's well advised for people to exercise moderation on how much they indulge in it, or allow their children to be exposed to it.

However, none of that applies to what sounds like the very limited nudity mentioned in this game. It doesn't sound out of place for a bordello in a mafia-centered game (the fact that nobody was topless in the film seems like quite intentional nit-picking, not worth getting into), and the way a completely blind eye is turned to the "intense violence" in favor of hysterical focus on the appearance of some breasts, of all things, is genuinely disturbing.

I don't think it's worth the kind of attention this article is paying to it, and I do get the impression that the issue was stirred up by the columnist for the sake of page views. I'm sure it worked, but count me among the readers who stumbled here from another site, was dismayed at what they found and will not be returning.

[fcz1]

Read up on the Uncanny Valley. This is why nudity doesn't belong in video games (except "Custer's Revenge, when it is funny).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley

[Lerianis3]

Actually, nudity is fine in video games. The problem is that the kind of nudity that would add something to the game is 'banned' because it would be too 'graphic'.

[retrosteve]

Hey Don -- do you like fishsticks? Do you like to put fishsticks in your mouth?

[mitchell2percent]

Yes

Yes i like to put them in my mouth




I am not a gay fish! why do people keep calling me a gay fish!

[sanjayb]

At least Kayne West finally figured it out!!

That was a lame episode except for the JewBots!! Now that was funny! :-)