Comments on: Why I want the Palm Pre to succeed

Apple and Palm may be on a collision course over the Pre's functionality. But at least one person supports Palm in its fight: Don Reisinger.

[AppleSuxLeo]

It`s the BONO-Phone. It will prevail. The UI is way ahead of Apple`s. This phone will sell itself.

[DontTread0nMe]

it is pretty much ahead..and I guarantee you it will ship with copy and paste lol

but anyways, where does apple get off really? i didn't realize they invented cellular technology, sms, push email and electricity ..they need to stop ******** and moaning and make the iPhone less of a toy and more of a productivity tool

[strykernyc]

I see Palm getting so much $$$$$$$ from Apple. I bet apple doesn't have the balls to go after Palm.
Talk is cheap and any action against Palm will just make them money.
I had an iphone, and I can say the palm treo is soooooo much better than the iphone for a million reason.
Palm was the king 10years ago and now is time to do it again.
Freedom prevails!!!

P.S. The Touch Pro screen has three (3) times the resolution of the iphone.

[seah0rse]

It's not even in production - it is vapourware...

[seah0rse]

Production is planned for Q3 2009 http://www.unwiredview.com/2009/01/11/palm-pre-sprints-pricing-update-and-sales-volumes/

[michaelfhayes]

IFF the Palm Pre worked seamlessly with MobileMe, I would consider it, but with a iMac at home and a MacAir on the road, any other interface is a non-starter (never liked the way MarkSpace, etc worked on my Palm T/X)

agreed...... apple didn't invent the cellphone, the "touch screen", "push" notification, multi-media on a cell-phone, etc. they may have improved one or two things greatly, but at's all.... i hate to keep hearing the term "iphone" killer... iphone's not a great phone at all... sure the UI is the best today, other than that the web, WifI, etc, other phones have 'em and othe rphones have much powerful features/capabillties on them incl. multiple apps running in the back-ground, bluetooth data etc etc etc... man...we're just sold over by iphone.... its just the hype guys great marketing campaigns from apple.... they improved one things superbly (the UI) and they made it a big thing...

[dbrohamTV]

Love the iPhone but I have to agree...need Palm Pre to succeed. Plus what happened to copy and paste, and notifications in iPhone??? grr!

[PoisedSimplified]

We don't know if Palm used character for character or object for object the code it takes to get the end result - Pre's interface. Does it look similar? Yes. Has the iPhone been mimicked commercially before by other handset manufacturers? Damn straight. Palm is no worse than Samsung in producing a handset that shimmers iPhone-ness. Apple's shoulder chip may be that Palm may actually win a few battles here. Samsung's Instinct was out for the count before the bell rung. Good luck to Palm. I'm hoping for more devices like this to open up to all carriers and frequencies (CDMA and GSM, why isolate your devices equipment makers?)

[superbrain04]

Does anyone know when the pre may be available? I have had a Treo 650 since its release back in 2004, and I am stoked about the Pre, because it is finally something worth upgrading to since I am on Sprint and I am familiar with Palm. Good article! I agree apple needs competition just like any company...

[purpleLightning]

Logically, the only reason why should be or not be for a product succeeding is dependent on it's quality, not an over-inflated sense of corporate competition.

[jaxstephens]

It's telling that the author didn't even mention Windows Mobile while analyzing BlackBerry, Android, etc. Poor Microsoft--looks like they've lost this space. Win Mo is like the joke of the smartphone world now. And I used to be a stauch Win Mo user. Now my next phone will probably be an iPhone--or maybe Web OS/Pre if it's totally killer.

[stigmattaman]

Sort of. The author's not really that good or thoughtful on the mobile space, as WinMo did outsell Apple last year (of course, it's on a ton of handsets). From what I gathered, he's just trying to get some link/Google/TechMeme love with this article. It's a bunch of hot keywords, and some vague corporate competition ethos mixed together.

[kcotham]

If Palm ripped off Apple's Intellectual Property, they need to burn for it. Apple has worked hard for its successes. People have touted Apple's death many times, yet it still innovates and comes out with products that people like. And the first time someone comes along, stealing their ideas, people turn on them like a bunch of hungry dogs. What Palm REALLY needs to do (and this holds true for the rest of Apple's competitors) is to come up with something entirely new and different. Oh, but wait, that would be too hard! The list of companies letting Apple do all the R & D and take all risks with the first products to market is a mile long, starting with Micro$oft.

I'm for competition as much as the next guy, but only if a company truly comes up with something new, on its own merits.

[rhsc]

Apple didn't conduct any R&D for the iphone. They took existing technologies and combined them into a phone

[kyle5434]

Yeah, but the argument could be made that Apple originally ripped off Xerox/Parc with the Mac GUI, too.

[twolf2919]

A few weeks ago, I saw an article from 2007 in which one of Apple's former software stars, Tog, gave his impressions of the iPhone. In the article (http://www.asktog.com/columns/070iPhoneFirstLook.html), he mentioned that many, if not all, of iPhone's multi-touch gestures were discussed as far back as the 1980's. I don't know the specifics of the granted Apple patent on multi-touch, but if they include any of the gestures referred to in this article, there's obviously prior art and the patent (at least those parts of it) are invalid.

The patent system is hopelessly broken in this country. The patent clerks are overworked and underfunded. It is no wonder that many patents are almost rubber-stamp approved rather than closely examined.

Now to your assertion that everyone is copying Apple! Bullocks. Just because Apple implements someone else's idea before anyone else, doesn't make "anyone else" a copier of Apple ideas - they just copied the same things Apple did. I'm not saying that Apple hasn't invented anything, but a fair number of their "ideas" are just excellent implementations of someone else's ideas (e.g. multi-touch, the Mac's user interface - which, ironically enough, Apple tried to sue MS over a few decades ago - despite the fact that Apple just took the idea from Xerox Park research!) Apple is not half the innovator that many Apple fan boys think they are.

[gunchmofo]

That's a good point, ever since Apple invented the telephone and SMS and Calendars and electricity, everyone has been ripping off their ideas.

Innovation within the smartphone market can't be "something entirely new and different" which is the guy's point in the article. Both companies will push the envelope if there is some sort of competition.

[rapier1]

Did Pre rip off some of Palm IP? Probably. Did Apple rip of some of Palm's IP? Probably.
engadget has an in depth analysis which should prove interesting reading for those interestef.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/apple-vs-palm-the-in-depth-analysis/#continued

[atomD21]

I love how Apple has become this entity that people will fight to the death to defend. Apple has some cool products, but they aren't exactly the tech messiah that people seem to claim they are. And kudos to Palm for coming up with what appears to be a good solid phone.

[graphicsrod]

DITTO!!!!!

[random truth]

@atomD21
well bell labs doesnt exist anymore so we have to look to someone.

[calculatorwatch]

I like how you make apple sound like the underdog. Are you saying that palm wasn't two steps away from death when it came out with this, and that they didn't innovate and come out with something people like? If that were the case I don't see why apple would be so scared.

[Perry_Clease]

"well bell labs doesnt exist anymore so we have to look to someone."

How about Lucent?

[chrisx1]

It remains to be seen if the Palm Pre will be a nice phone.
It may be the next Blackberry Storm that had people excited until they started using it and the realized how buggy it was.

[ApplerPS3]

Lol. How is that thing doing by the way? I havent heard anything about it since the barrage of online articles praising its arrival on the scene. I guess its a flop.

[Tr1umph]

Before the iPhone came along, I had a Treo. I was very happy with it when I first got it. Before the Treo, I had numerous Palm and Handspring devices and was very happy with them as well. As time moved along the Treo got no love from Palm. Syncing in OS X was problematic, the ui got long-in-tooth. I was envious of some of the other smartphones, including the one from Blackberry. Then came rumors of the iPhone. Those rumors made me stick with the Treo (and Sprint) much longer than I would have liked... but when the iPhone was real, I was an early adopter. The first year of iPhone was good. The second year brought many new advancements and upgrades and applications. But yet there are some things that the iPhone ignores still to this day. Copy/paste. Installing custom apps (not from the store). Tethering, An open storage device. Memory-card support, etc.

I welcome the Pre. I am not so fond of the Pre's javascript/html/css applications, but that was like the iPhone's first year. Maybe before year two, they too will have a real platform. Whatever the case, I like what I have seen so far.

[terminalblue]

I think alot of you are confusing Intellectual property with the GUI. The IP should more specifically refer to the software its self, while the interface is how you interact with the software. as far as ripping off apples IP, nobody is stupid enough to do that...that is simply piracy. the fact that Apple some how managed to patent the touch screen interface is beyond me. if you want to call using your finger to interface with the OS, then i will never consider that IP theft.

[ballmerisanape]

Palm's current market cap is $827.6 million, the company has $396 million in debt, and $224 million in cash on-hand.. they better do something..

God forbid they come up with their own ideas. Funny how all the big companies (auto and computer) are complaining now.. when it was them that didn't have the foresight to innovate.

I like Palm too... but that was 8 years ago... They are more behind the game than Microsoft.. and that's saying something.

It's interesting how people also didn't care that there was no competition in the smart phone and hand-held markets for the last 8 years or so... I say "no competition" because all of the OS's were pretty impotent compared to what they could have been.

If you want to play capitalism.. you have to be willing to lose.

[gerrrg]

Wow, chop down the G1 / Android when it's only had 3 months, and cupcake is coming soon. How many apps did the iPhone have at 3 months? Hundreds? All those rumors about rogue software on Android Market are just that...rumors.

I don't get it, why you'd root for a lousy team called Palm, who chucked the handheld, failed on Foleo, and abandoned OS development for Windows Mobile, only to turn the clock back to develop WebOS.

Way to go, to support a company that doesn't know which direction its headed.

[yreguy]

Actually, the iPhone had close to 6,000. Where have you been? In November, they had 10,000, SIX months after launch.

[sting7k]

I too love my iPhone but I am hoping the Palm Pre makes it to market. I don't know how well it will do being only on Sprint for a while, but I hope it does something. The hope is that this will force Apple to step up their game and send the iPhone over the top with all the things people knock it for all the time. While I personally do not care about most of these issues it will be nice to have the arguments end and an iPhone that can do anything, not just do things the Apple way.

Palm made all those deals with other companies for lots of features on the Pre, Apple needs to follow suit. Get a deal with TeleNav or someone for some real GPS navigation and get some other deals, Facebook and AIM can push to the phone or something special.

[etslee]

If the Pre sparks apple to finally give us copy-paste, I'm all for it. But I still don't see it really competing with the iphone, at least for awhile. It still lacks the huge App store (best thing about the iphone) and media capabilities. And the hardware is OK, but doesn't look anywhere as cool as the iphone. Still, competition is good.

[PrdAmrican]

Good article on the Apple vs. iPhone that explains some of the patent issues both companies face:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/apple-vs-palm-the-in-depth-analysis/3#comments

[oneAwake]

I read that article as well, if anything Apple needs to watch out. That article clearly shows that Apple infringed on Palms patents. At this point it is Apple that stands much to lose should they try their hand at a lawsuit.

[BigggT]

i have been using the Treo 650 then upgraded to the 750 for the last 2 years as far as I know Treo's have been using 3G speed for the last 3 or 4 years but for some reason it seems as though 3G started with iphones. Anyways, I am saying all of that to say that the Treo 750 is better phone for business applications e.g. creating and editing Microsoft Word, Excel, or Powerpoint documents and wasn't that whole touch pad technology on the treo's before we even heard about iphone? Personally, I considered switching to an iphone but when I realised it's limitations it appears to me that Treos and CES might just be better phones for business purposes.

[LuvThatCO2]

No other touch screen phones are 'compelling'? Have you looked at HTC's Touch line of phones? (which, by the way, pre-date the iPhone). They have significantly better feature sets than the iPhone.

[ballmerisanape]

can you name some of those feature sets?

[EvilAl]

I have a Touch Pro and to name a few

Copy/Paste, expandable storage, miltiple program options for the same function (more than one browser option more than one music player etc), a largerscreen resolution (love it for moble web browsing really wish the Touch HD was more available in the US), physical keyboard (I know not everyone wants one but I prefer it for long emails and there are modles without the keyboard if you want a thin device) Turn by turn GPS (and not just the one provided by your carrier but Garmin or TomTom versions as well), changable interface (SPC moble Shell or the default Touch Flo 3d as well as others though I'll give this one to the iPhone as well since you can jailbreak and change the gui)

while the iPhone had a great App store and support there's just more you can do with other devices and that was more important to me as well as only paying $30 a month for web/phone/texts

I might just jump on the Pre when it's out, it looks great and seems like everything runs even smother than the iPhone and I just love the idea of the constant sync to the cloud. iPhone's great till you have to deal with iTunes to sync it. Just wish it had an MicroSD card slot on top of the internal storage.

[Anchelspain]

I agree with EvilAI.

I have an HTC Touch Diamond, a really sleek phone. It's smaller than the iPhone, so the screen isn't as big either, but it certainly does beat the iPhone in many other ways, from camera functions (better resolution, video recording) to worldwide unlocked availability, going through the Windows Live integration thanks to Windows Mobile-Windows Live interaction (which is for free instead of paying a monthly fee as in MobileMe) or the GPS functions metioned above as well. And the HTC Touch HD, following up on the Diamond and Pro, has an even bigger screen than the iPhone.

I'd say that the ability to choose between different versions of the same model (smaller screen, bigger screen, physical keyboard or not...) is quite a big advantage over the iPhone and it's "one size fits all" model.

[yreguy]

First of all, HTC's TOUCH phones came AFTER the iPhone, second, HAH HTC? are you seriously trying to argue HTC?! Third, the reason people call the iPhone "compelling" is because of it's superior, finger-centric UI and multi touch. HTC phones use the antiquated Windows Mobile 6. I know they have their TouchFlo interface running over it, but i have personally tried it and, compared to the iPhone, there are far more steps required to do ANYTHING. I found it annoying. Also, the writer is probably trying to relate to the MAINSTREAM CONSUMERS who don't need... well, a crappy phone!

[restoration85]

So HTC's Touch line of phones aren't compelling? Samsung's Omnia? the 5 million plus Viewty's sold in 14 months? and how about SPB's Mobile Shell for WinMo phones?

[eyepoker]

the author is not qualified to judge any other phones... he's apprently not very schooled on the topic. Additionaly admitting that he loves his iphone, that he is extremely happy with it, and then to to say that the BB is aweful - too much bias and so we as readers can't put any stock in his observations. My HTC Touch Pro was more than compelling for me to buy it over an iPhone.

[whois101]

These gestures - like zooming - that Apple hijacked by getting the patents are not unique. The large (pre-retail) touch screens already used them before the iPhone came out. It's just wrong that they got away with patenting existing things. What's next? Are they going to patent the letter 'A'? Or sue the fruit industry for selling apples (those round juicy things that are supposed to be healthy for you)?

[rapier1]

They didn't get a patent on the zooming or on most aspects of swiping. CNET obviously hasn't actually read the patent.

[CristGarage]

I agree with some of the others here, Apple should go after the bastards if it's proved Palm ripped off their years of R & D. This could adversely affect Palm and it's comeback, so it'll be interesting to watch it unfold.

[rapier1]

Apple ripped of Palm R&D as well. If Apple goes after Palm its very likely that Palm will return the favor. Considering that damages are based in part on the sales of the infringing device Apple has a lot more to lose if they pull the trigger. What will likely happen is a cash free cross licensing deal of the IP.

[whois101]

Remember that it was Handspring (now Palm again) that made the first Smartphone (the Treo) that was accessible for regular consumers in 2000. And Palm had the first widely used PDAs. Most of the concepts of PDAs and PDAs combined with telephones, we know as Smartphones now, were taken from these original Palm and Handspring units. Apple was nowhere at that point. Palm could probably easily go after Apple to get money for that, if Apple tries to go after Palm. Chicken, egg, apple and tree.

[ResinNation]

Ummm... and Palm (Handspring) ripped off Apple first for the first of the Palms... anyone remember the Newton? Yeah...

[DrtyDogg]

If you want to keep going with this we can. Remember Apple ripped off AT&T for the newton. yeah. . .

[tm_anon]

Or you could all realize that, in the software world, everyone's "ripped off" everyone else. They just charge different prices and implement it differently.

[homercles82]

in reply to ResinNation

The Newton was a piece of crap. Palm saw the idea, made it actually work and made money doing it. Get over yourself and go back to sipping lattes while musing on how Apple products are better because they look cooler.