Comments on: Does the Xbox 720 need Blu-ray to succeed?

If the Xbox 720 comes out in the next few years, it'll be interesting to see what's packed into it. One prediction: no Blu-ray.

[sting7k]

The next Xbox will need 4 things to be successful.

1. Blu-ray - Games will need the extra space, no doubt about it MS will just have deal with it and hope that they have shifted enough people to Xbox to make up for having to pay for Blu-ray.

2. Be Xbox 1080, forget 720. Most of the games we have are just rendered at something around 720 and upscaled. The next Xbox HAS to have everything BE 1080p. 1080p TVs are every where now and prices are always dropping, forget 720 it is already being left behind.

3. Better integration with Windows, Zune, and my living room TV. I don't know what MS is smoking but they are blowing it big time on this department. EVERYONE is trying to make these "media boxes" that sit and stream content from your computer to a set top box and everything inbetween. Apple is even selling their own box to go with iTunes and iPods. Microsoft already has everything in place, a market on the Xbox that sells content, a portable media player, and dominates the computer OS market. Unify LIVE market and Zune market place so I can take videos from any device I choose and move it from Computer, Zune, living room, to the net.

4. Halo launch title from Bungie. Nintendo has Mario, Sony has ?, Microsoft has the Master Chief. Right now he is floating around in space in hyper-sleep. Bungie needs to thaw him out and give us our hero. Don't just give me Halo 4 from Gearbox, we need the real deal and only Bungie can give that to us.

There is a lot more MS can do, but those are the critical 4 things they need.

[mpietriski]

From what I've read from everyone else, the whole notion of a all-in-one media box is clear. Regardless of what BD's future is MS is going to take a gamble that could hurt them. Integration, integration, integration. It took Sony too long to get a decent flash player going in their crappy browser, but minus not having any really memorable game titles, when it comes to all-in-one MS needs to take a page out of Sony's book (goes double for a none OEM HDD)

[sting7k]

I'm all for the next Xbox having a removable HDD that I can upgrade myself. HDDs are dirt cheap these days and what they charge for the 360 HDD right now is insane. I'm lucky I was able to upgrade to the elite system when my pro system broke, best buy let me pay the difference since I had a replacement plan with them. And MS really needs to take the integration gamble and unify all their market places and LIVE services. They already have everything they need, they just haven't done it, I have windows media center already setup to stream to my 360 from my PC but it could be a lot better. I would ditch my iPod for a Zune in a heart beat if the Zune market place and Xbox LIVE market places were unified and I could transfer content from one to the other.

[Atlantean]

I clicked the link hoping to find an interesting view of the current format and console wars. I stopped reading right after I saw it was written by Don Reisinger.

[The Wiethoff]

The secret weapon for 720 will be its focus on being a media center/tv console not just a gaming console. BR will be there it has to be, plus a new MS online video content offering.

[BCF1968]

You mean like the PS3 does NOW?

[Robert G K]

Now an interesting idea would be if you bought a flash drive and to play a game you can go to a store and just download one into your drive and then play it on your Xbox. The only thing about that is piracy, you'd see the games for download and it would be a mess. If they could make it pirate proof, it would be an interesting idea. Go to Best Buy, plug in your thumb drive, pay so much for the game and it downloads to your drive. You go home and it moves (not copy) but moves it to your system and deletes it from the thumb drive so you can only use it on that Xbox. For renting games after a week it could disable the game until you pay for another week through Xbox live. Buying the game Best Buy would remember what games you bought so if your Xbox broke or something happened to the game you can download it again. That thumb drive can be coded for just that Xbox so you can't say your Xbox broke or your dog deleted your game and bring your friends thumb drive there to download it and you can't use your thumbdrive on another Xbox for copying games.

[cpopken]

If I'm going to go to all that trouble, I could just buy the game.

Say you have five games on your console, then your hard drive crashes, your little brother deletes everything, or the machine fails. Now you have to make five trips to Best Buy or have five flash drives to reinstall all of the games?

[DaveV]

The Xbox 720 is going to be a full fledged windows 7 box with the Media Center front end. Microsoft will release it Christmas 2009 maybe spring 2010. It will also feature motion controls similar to the wii, yet are backwards compatible with some games.

If they release a new system soon enough, then can practically destroy sony, as I expect next year people will be fed up with their 360s and be blown away by sony games that actually use the hardware.

[bubblebathgirl]

It's quite clear that there are a lot of angry XBOTS here who would have been singing quite a different tune had HD DVD not flopped horribly.

Blu-ray won and now the 360 Red Ring of Death owners are all upset and willing to rely on old (way dated) technology like DVD.

A little advice: don't be angry. If higher quality experiences are something you're not interested in, then sure, stick with Microsoft and the 360. If you want games with 5-10 times more potential, then go with Sony and Blu-ray, it's just that simple.

It's downright ignorant, and quite transparent, to say that one technology is the end or beginning of everything. Sure digital downloads are great, but so is "hold it in your hand" media, and that won't go away for a very very long time.

So please, leave your sour grapes at home. Companies like Toshiba and Microsoft are copy-cat minded wannabees who come out with inferior products that simply don't work well. Whereas companies like Apple and Sony are pioneering their respective fields and bringing quality and imagination to the consumer. This is why Apple and Sony are rising high even in these difficult times, when companies like Microsoft and Toshiba are trying desperate marketing campaigns as they find their market share plummeting.

The smart bet is on Apple and Sony for the coming years, watch for them to bring us stuff that inspires, and just works well.

[Sleeplessone]

Blu-Ray won, but DVD is still king. And there is a really good reason for this. When you look at what Blu-Ray movies sell well they all have one thing in common. They are primarily high special effects action movies. Nobody cares if [insert latest romantic comedy here] is in 1080p with 7.1 audio. Sure, Batman: The Dark Knight is going to look spectacular, but when you look at the prices between the same movie on Blu-Ray and DVD, do you really care to spend the extra money when purchasing something like Horton Hears a Who for your kid?

When people changed from VHS to DVD there was a greater number of benefits across all movie genres than there is from DVD to Blu-Ray and this is what is holding back Blu-Ray. The simple lack of a reason to buy every new movie that comes out on Blu-Ray.

[Liquidx01]

Sleep, don't waste your time making sense. People like that fail to realize that many view Blu-ray as nothing more than an evolution of what they have now, DVD. DVD was a revolutionary step up from VHS, Blu-ray is not. Until disc prices fall at or bellow the cost of a DVD, Blu-ray will remain a niche product for high end consumers instead of average Joe.

[rogueartemis]

Actually too correct you all who are apparently Hiro Nakamura(Heroes Reference), the Blu-Ray is succedding quite well in most places...and the PS3 games aren't the only things that use Blu-Ray, there are Movies also...so don't be so quick to shoot down the Blu-Ray when it is already wasting the Numbers that HD DVD showed early in it creation and is catching up to DVD's as we speak...Also, take into account that blu ray is over DVD sales in Japan and that will soon enough spread over to the U.S. no problem...Oh and everybody saying the disk drive is the only thing heating up the Xbox, they are highly mistaken because running stuff off the hard drive heats the system up to, Xbox just needs to make a better cooling system for future uses.

P.S. Blu-Ray is succedding http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=2153#comments

[bubblebathgirl]

You're right. It's basically a lot of angry HD DVD fans posting here in support of M$. HD DVD got the snot kicked out of it so their trying to bring down Blu-ray.

It didn't work when the "war" was going on, and it certainly won't now! So have fun! LOL!

[Sleeplessone]

Blu-Ray recorders outselling DVD standalone recorders....really. How is that supprising at all?

That article says nothing about movies sold. If I was given the choice between a standalone DVD recorder for my TV or a standalone BD recorder, I would take the BD recorder. Why? Not so I can record HD. But so I could record more shows without switching a disc out.

[BCF1968]

God this guy is a tool. Everything he writes is garbage. Why does CNET let him keep posting stupidity?

Ok first of all the DVD-9 technology is at it's max now so there's no way it can be used for the 720.

Second, download only? I guess MS doesn't want the 20% or more of Americans where there isn't any broadband available, as customers. I'm sure Sony will take them. Even those with broadband have connection under 5 Mbps and that's not increasing very much. Yes 9 hours to download a 20 GB game at 5 Mbps. Yeah fun! Let's not forget caps. Comcast already has them. At&t and TW are testing them. TW has caps that are 5 GB-40 GB. Who is going to download a game that's 10 GB, 20 GB or more if you only have a 40 GB monthly cap or even less? Especially when you are charged $1 per GB overage. Those that think downloading is the near future and physical media is dead are ignorant of the sad state of broadband in the US. MAYBE in 2020 digital downloading can start to overtake physical media. And I'm being generous with that estimation.

So that means MS won't have a choice but to embrace blu-ray. Unless they want to have all their games on 3, 4, 5 or more discs. Sorry if MS is dumb enough to make the games for the 720 download only then you won't see me buying it.

Seriously it's stupid not to have games on some sort of physical media. Can you imagine in 2012 or whenever when the 720 comes out and people buy it and then they look and ask the wal-mart worker "Where are the games?" and they say "Oh you have to download them off the internet." How many people will NOT buy it right then and there. Oh and wal-mart is really going to sell the 720 when it has ZERO chance to make any money off the games if they are download only. Wal-Mart doesn't make diddly off the hardware.

[Robert G K]

I'm not saying blu-ray isn't succeeding, it is slowly in its own way. For movies it'll be short lived 3-5 years before streaming becomes the norm. For video games I think if MS stuck with DVD it won't do as because games are getting bigger and need more disk space than DVD's can handle. BUT I think it wouldn't matter if they went HD-DVD or blu-ray. I just think HD-DVD would be better for Microsoft because it would be cheaper for them to implement. I don't think if they use blu-ray over HD-DVD it'll sell more Xboxes because Xbox is known for games, and they have the Netflix streaming movies.

I'm not sore that blu-ray won, I'm just saying that it would be cheaper for MS to go with HD-DVD and that would make the Xbox cheaper so it would be a win win for everyone...except Sony who won't be making any money off of them using HD-DVD. They may use blu-ray but I think they could use HD-DVD and do just fine.

[BCF1968]

"HD" streams are garbage. Movies and shows stream at 2.5 Mbps and they call that "HD". Hell that's not even really SD if you want to get technical. Sorry a 2.5 Mbps "HD" stream or a 720p digital download with a 6 Mbps bitrate is NOT the same as a 1080p blu-ray with a 40 Mbps bitrate. Even plain old DVDs have a bitrate of 8 Mbps. That's like saying a Kia is the same as a BMW because they both are cars.

Once again even at only 2.5 Mbps it would only take about an hour and a half a day of watching those streams to go over TW 40 GB monthly cap. Then you get charged $1 per GB. Considering 2.5 Mbps = 1 GB per hour, do the math on how much you are going to spend on digital downloading or streaming.

[Sleeplessone]

Because comparing MPEG2 bit rate on a DVD to H264 bitrate is an accurate comparison of quality right?

Since we're using the car analogy, your comparison is like saying the Prius will outperform a Lotus because the Prius gets better gas mileage.

[BCF1968]

hey sleepless one yes it is comparable because first of all all that means is that those streams and digital download are compressed all to hell. Second to say a 720p "HD" movie from XBL or Itunes is the same quality as a 1080p blu-ray movie is totally ignorant. Seriously you are not be that stupid.

[Sleeplessone]

Please indicate in my previous comment where I was comparing the stream to blu-ray.

I said your comparison between DVD bitrate and streaming bitrate was idiotic.

[Robert G K]

Thats why I said 3-5 years from now because by then with the way bandwith is going up now the norm should be 20-30 Mbps and that should be the norm. Right now low is 2.5 Mbps and top right now you can get in a home is about 20 Mbps (I have 10). Comcast is saying they'll be able to bring higher than 20 in the home soon and every cable and DSL provider is going to have to match that. The average will be 20+ 3-5 years because the higher end will be 50+ which will bring down the low end to what 2.5 Mbps is now. 1.5 Mbps 2-3 years ago was the norm and 3 Mbps use to be the high and now the high is 20 and its just going to keep getting higher and the low will become the average. Trickle down bandwith.

[autoboy70]

There are 4 viable options here.

1. Blu-ray drive
2. Proprietary format
3. Digital Downloads
4. DVD

And maybe a fifth: installs, but it just seems to not be very consoley.

If they go with Blu-ray or a proprietary format, the good thing is that they don't need to figure that out until much later in the design cycle. HD-DVD is a complete format they could tweak and Blu-ray would have the advantage of also being a movie player which can help drive sales. I would do Blu-ray if I were them but they have the advantage of being able to wait it out and see if BD takes off. I think you will find that it does. (all those people who think we are going higher than 1080p anytime soon have never seen a bigscreen TV on 1080p. It is enough resolution for 99% of the people...ever. Most people will only have 40-60" TVs even in the future) Either way, an optical format is required for people without big pipes, and for portability.

Digital Downloads are awesome if you can do it. I can but my brother can't. That doesn't make for a good business if you keep out half the population. Why not give people the option for digital downloads though? There is no reason this can't be done regardless of the media format and I would expect MS to realize this and give their users this option. They are going for downloadable movies, their systems will support large drives already. Downloading a 30GB game doesn't sound fun to me though.

With any optical format DVDs will always be in play because they are always compatible with HD-DVD or Blu-ray. There is no reason DVD can't still be a good medium for many developers to release on and reduce the cost of printing the game. But I highly doubt a new format will not be part of the equation. This is two years out. Stop talking about currently released games. This new console will have to survive a 10 year lifecycle. Installing using DVDs doesn't make any sense at all because it is tedious for gamers used to just plopping in a disc and running it. Imagine how pissed people would be if this was needed to install your games because MS was too cheap to pay Sony some licensing fees. Anyone who thinks this is the way is not thinking straight.

So, basically, there is no reason MS can't implement all of these formats on one system. Stop thinking one dimensionally.

[Ugotownedo]

This is stupid, there is no way that Microsoft will use DVDs for the next generation. Seriously, if some devs have already complained about the lack of space on DVD, what do you think will happen next generation? By Christmas next year, Blu-ray players will be available starting at $199, and THAT is when the Blu-ray format will really start to pick up.

And the only complaints that Blu-ray has received from devs is that it's read speed is too slow, which is why some PS3 games require installs. Don't you think that by 2011 or whenever the new gen hits, Blu-ray drives will have much higher read speeds? The PS3's drive has a read speed of 2x; I'm pretty sure that the next-gen consoles will have drive that can read up to 4x, possibly even 6x.

My prediction is that Microsoft will make it so that the entire library of games for the Xbox 720 will be available online, as well as on discs available in retail stores. Nobody said we can't have 2 options. Besides, this model won't shove the idea of mandatory online games down our throats. Plus, if Microsoft really wants to make an entertainment hub, then I'm sure they'll add in Blu-ray.

[BCF1968]

Wal-mart is selling blu-ray players for $198 NOW. By next year they'll be $99. By next Christmas the PS3 will be $299 max.

[Sleeplessone]

And the Xbox360 will be $150 or less, what's your point?

[xBlaCkBiRdx02]

I remember somwhere on engadget in an article about how a company call "Royal Digital Media" is already developing 100GB dics!?! I have the link.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/29/royal-digital-media-trots-out-100gb-per-disc-blu-ray-competitor/

[TCrimson05]

I can stop this whole conversation with one link......http://gear.ign.com/articles/935/935074p1.html

lol For those to lazy to copy and paste, let me explain. This guy is right, the only advantage to blue ray is the storage capacity for games. So why is the link I just put up so devastating to the Sony supporters here? Because it shows a disk with 400GB capacity (EIGHT TIMES THAT OF BLUE RAY)....Oh and will be 1 TB (if you don't know what that is look it up) buy 2013 or sooner. Now, let me answer your next 2 questions, no It isn't by Sony and NO IT IS NOT A BLUE RAY disk (though it is blue ray compatible) lol. So explain to me why Microsoft, would pay Sony for smaller capacity when between these disks and falling price in storage medium the next Gen systems will pretty much keep them for asking Sony for anything lol?


................anybody?

nuff said.

[someguynamedbob]

cauze it probably cost between $50-$200 for the DISK ALONE

[TCrimson05]

oh...lol and pioneer isn't the only ones with this technology in case you were wondering...i know pioneer supports blue ray

[synthetikz]

DON ... YOU ARE SUCH A MICROSOFT FANBOY. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOUR ARTICLES SING THE HIGH PRAISES OF XBOX 360 AND DIMINISHES SONY, THE PS3 AND BLU-RAY.

BIASED ANY??

[thesplintercell]

i think that Don Reisinger is being too cavalier with his words. a standard dual-layered dvd (the kind used for movies) is an 8.5GB disc. do you have enough room on your HDD to store several dvd movies, how about xbox 360 games electronically delivered rather than bought on disc, do you have enough hard disc storage for it all ? or how about high-definition movies, do you have enough hard drive space to spare for 3 or 4 50GB movies ? i have an idea, let's start selling an appliance the same size as a refrigerator, but filled with hard drives, so that we don't use optical discs anymore ?.......no

if yours is truely the direction that the country is headed in, it would have already happened. Unfortunately, Don Reisinger thinks that everyone's hard-wired to the internet or something, and so no one needs a new optical disc format ? or is he just downplaying the format because some folks over at ZDNet wrote an article about the death of blu-ray, so he is jumping on the bandwagon too ?

so here's this 25GB-400GB (yes, blu-ray is capable of reaching 400GB, read about it on wikipedia) blu-ray disc format that was developed for the sake of consumer technology evolution, with respect to entertainment and data storage. but M$ doesn't want it, nor will it put down it's pride or bite the bullet in order to put a blu-ray drive in the next generation of it's consoles (btw, where did you come up with the name "Xbox 720", it sound lame).

let M$ make it's own bed and sleep in it then.

i think blu-ray is the sucessor to dvd, just like dvd took some time to cement itself, so will blu-ray.

[GlennW007]

It's also time MS or somebody put some games in the $1 to $3 video box like I see at Walgreen's or at the grocery store. The video works great, but you must use it within 24hrs of purchase. This could be a great way to sample games or to have temp games at hotels, resorts, etc.

Perhaps the MS720 can use the Intel i7 chip to be more energy efficient and use less power than current systems. Include a timer that turns the machine off in after hours or when not used for 30 minutes or more.

[abundantsnotbob]

I also think that the way we buy media will change, but for now I'm sure making a hard drive to store information is more expensive than making blu-rays, and the reason why I buy my games as physical media, is because the memory cards for psp are very expensive, and they could only hold a few games because umd's hold 1.8 gigs, the second reason is they are about the same price in stores as the internet downloading. I think they would do better to allow renting games like how itunes rents movies, or they should sell the games for less than five dollars for old games because it would be a bigger percentage of profit as they wouldn't have to make umd's or ship them. At walmart.com the 4gb is 36.88 and after tax that would be about $40, so storing each game that was 1.8GB would be $20 plus the 20 some dollars to download it. I know that most games are much less than 1.8 gigs, but i'll stick to buying physical media for now.

[CenturionSquad]

BUBBLEBATHGIRL- Why do you have to bash the XBOX 360 owners? Which system has the bigger library of games? Which system has more 4 star rated and higher games? If I remember correctly, the PS2 had major problems when it rolled out. Oh wait a minute, so did the PS3. To be honest there is not a single game on the PS3 that makes me want to buy it. Even if I could decide which of the six or seven versions of the PS3 to buy. What's up with that? Couldn't Sony decide what version of the system they wanted? One is backwards compatible, the other is not. So many choices!

"Toshiba and Microsoft are copy-cat minded wannabees."-bubblebathgirl
Really? Sony didn't copy anything did they. "Oh we had motion controllers before Nintendo even thought of that!"-They must have thought of trophies too, way before Microsoft invented the gamer score. The truth is that Playstation Network, doesn't even come close to touching Xbox Live. Don't say anything about the Avatars either, because those have been around forever. Hey do you have the controller that rumbles, or the one that doesn't-rofl-Sony messed up this round admit it-their loss mitigation department is in shambles right now, because they have probably lost so much money it's not even funny.

Just succeed defeat-oh and go ahead and pay $30 for your stupid Blu-Ray movies, while I stream them in HD from Netflix-loser