Comments on: Oh it's on: Amazon MP3 vs. iTunes

Amazon.com's DRM-free store is coming to T-Mobile's G1. And now that Amazon is starting to expand its presence, Don Reisinger thinks the real battle is about to begin with iTunes.

[AppleSuxLeo]

Apple is about to be sucker-punched by MyspaceMusic also. It allows users to stream high-quality , full length songs and create playlists. And when you click the "buy" link , it goes to Amazon MP3 !
And with a built-in user base of 130 million regular users...Apple LOSES ! Bezos is a genius.

[dd13reis]

Great point. MySpace Music may be a homerun. And we also shouldn't forget Yahoo's search music streaming service too. That's pretty neat as well.

-Don

[phigata]

MySpace Music........ ha!

[dirty55409]

of course it's too soon to tell, but I think ANY competition is a good thing. Apple has gotten sloppy over the years with the bloated terribly slow Itunes software and the small improvements to the audio quality of the Ipod series. I have only downloaded a few albums from Amazon.com and I must say they are great quality and drm-free is great!

[dd13reis]

Apple has gotten sloppy and why not? There's not one other company in the space that can compete and its closest competitor -- Walmart -- is barely a worry. I agree that competition is key though and I hope to see more of it in this space.

-Don

[solblack]

However the Mp3 format that Amazon uses has a noticeable reduction in quality compared to the AAC format that iTunes uses.
PHOOYIE
It's better than ITUNES!

[dd13reis]

Can you tell a difference in the quality? If not, then you're right -- there's no reason to use iTunes. If so, you might want to think about it.

-Don

[skillingssucks]

You have no idea what you're talking about. Bit rate for bit rate AAC is a superior format to MP3. In fact, just about every format out there is superior, in terms of sound quality.

[Tedders85]

Don't forget that it is not entirely Apple's fault that a lot of their music is locked down by DRM. Apple has tried very hard for a long time to get the record companies to agree to DRM free music, but they haven't been able to persuade them yet.

[dd13reis]

Of course, and thanks for bringing that up. The record labels are deathly afraid of iTunes losing its DRM because it's the most important music retailer in the world. That doesn't mean it shouldn't lighten up though...

-Don

[Magallanes]

Not really, for example i copied some videos and mp3 (drmfree) to my ipod using the infamous itunes and later i tried to recover those files and itunes will not let me copy this files back. Finally i used a third-party software to return MY files.

[brettpweb]

DESIGN, DESIGN, DESIGN! If you have a crapy design, why would the average consumer want it?

If I was walking by a store and saw this phone in the storefront...I would keep on walking... Remember the Iphone is sexy and this phone is not...

Last, unlike the guys that are real tech warriors, the average consumer is happy with Itunes, so why would they switch? for $.10 cents...no chance...

The only thing I like is the ability to use two different programs a once..but to wait in line for this phone o chance.........this is going to be like the Zune Vs. Ipod all over again...All Hype with no market share!

Last, I wonder if apple has the patent on the finger gestures on moving items on the map programs...we will see.

[dd13reis]

Nice point on the gestures. I seriously doubt it -- I think Google would have done its due diligence, but stranger things have happened.

But you really think that the Android design is that bad? I think that physical keyboard is important and many people long for their physical keyboard. No, it's not the iPhone, but I don't think it's nearly as ugly as you do.

-Don

[phigata]

crapy...... hehehe......

[Lamppost0]

Apple has inspired so much enmity with the labels that the RIAA is more than happy to stunt iTunes by demanding DRM in the store while letting Amazon, Rhapsody and other companies run amok with untethered MP3 files.

[dd13reis]

The music industry doesn't like iTunes -- it's as simple as that. And now that iTunes has become the most popular store, the last thing it wants to do is offer songs without DRM. That's too big of a risk for those fools.

-Don

[Perry_Clease]

"Not really, for example i copied some videos and mp3 (drmfree) to my ipod using the infamous itunes and later i tried to recover those files and itunes will not let me copy this files back. Finally i used a third-party software to return MY files."

What was wrong with the files on your PC that you had to copy them back off of your iPod? Hard drive fail and you didn't have a backup?

Maybe you had iTunes set to "move" and not "copy" in which case iTunes permanently deletes the moved files on your PC.

[petechen]

DRM-free is the key here more than anything. Doesn't matter if it's iTunes, Amazon, Rhapsody, or whatever, DRM-free ensures "forward-compatibility" unlike the clamped down iTunes model. That $1000 you invested in songs bought in iTunes - gonna mean bupkus in 8 years if you don't continue buying iPods/phones and their future derivatives and Apple is able to support it then. Just imagine, I can still play 40 year old LPs because of forward compatibility - even if they sound like crap, they work on any LP-playing device - and not just an RCA Victor. [Good thing I didn't invest in 8-tracks.]

And what's with tying in device management with a "music playing software" program like iTunes? The point of my iPhone is more about calls, data, and apps more than music - why should I be tethered to a bulky media manager? And will it be the same story with G1?

Look it's dead simple: DRM-free media. Easy licensing and distribution for content developers (i.e. artists, video producers, pro photographers, writers, app devs., etc.), That's layer 1. Layer 2 is data management - Unbundle media management from application and PIM (contacts, calenders, notes, etc.) management (and how about some real apps that actually are worth syncing data with your desktop or "cloud"?). Finally, layer 3 is end-user device independence. Whether it's an iPhone, G1, Zune, Zen, Palm, or frickin Diamond Rio, the device simply does what it's supposed to, plays what it's supposed to play and for the 99% non-geekheads out there, they don't have to worry that when Apple gets bought and disassembled by Facebook/Myspace/MarthaStewartOmnimedia in 2014, you can still listen to Sanjaya.

Or maybe that's a good thing.

[dd13reis]

DRM-free is the key and it's incredibly important. DRM-free is the future, just like streaming. I don't look at iTunes as the future, to be honest. Instead, it's Amazon's service that will do it. But we can't forget the wild card either -- the music industry. Trust me, the RIAA won't go down without a fight and the last thing it wants is to let DRM-free music become the norm.

-Don

[leganx]

I went Amazon and never looked back to iTunes. It just works great with a minimalist download.

Now that the it is official that ipods sound mediocre, I have even switched to a sansa player.

Freedom is a great thing and Amazon is cheaper to boot.

[dd13reis]

Amen! I'm a firm supporter of Amazon and think iTunes is too restrictive to be used. I use Amazon's service all the time and so should everyone else. Yes, it's that good. A few design issues, but who cares? It works well.

-Don

[EseerW]

There is one thing you failed to mention. One reason why Apple originally locked down music with DRM is because the record companies threw a hissy fit. Now that the tides have shifted, and DRM-free is the way to go (I'm a fan), Apple is at a disadvantage. So the company (Apple) that drew the music industry into the widespread digital age has to now deal with record execs that are literally 'biting the digital hand' that fed them.

[dd13reis]

Very true. The music industry is the puppeteer back here and we can't forget that for one minute. Apple would jump at the chance to offer DRM-free tunes, but the labels won't have that for one second.

They are the companies we should be mad at.

-Don

[nicmart]

How do you know that Apple's continued offering of files with DRM is the choice of the record labels and not Apple? It keeps people wedded to iPods and the store is a commercial success still.

[EseerW]

The way I figure it, the best way for consumers to vote is with their wallets. With that being said, iPod owners (over 70% of the market share) have made their vote loud and clear.

Regardless of what is going on behind the scenes with the Record labels (slimy buggers), we still have a choice where we download music. Since I own music from both Amazon and iTunes, I already cast my ballot.

I'll just keep jamming on my iPod, cause let's be honest, what other mp3 player comes even CLOSE to the usability and quality?

[AppleSuxLeo]

Apple/Jobs is stuck in the past with his DRM/Higher prices/lower quality.
All songs I have DL`d from Amazon have been 256-320 kbps. AAC at 128 kbps is no match. No codec can make up for a much lower encoding rate. Jobs is being exposed for the rip-off he is.
iTunes will become a footnote of history.

[skillingssucks]

Once again, you're a complete moron. Apple's non DRM AAC tracks are 256 which beats Amazon's outdated MP3 format in 256. Seriously, everyone hear considers you a fool, might be time for you to get lost.

[skillingssucks]

Ahem, that would be "here".

[plaguester]

To the "audiophiles" here:

AAC is indeed better quality and smaller file size than MP3 at the same bitrate. 256Kbps AAC from iTunes plus is better than 256Kbps MP3 from Amazon. However, the vast majority of tracks on iTunes are not iTunes plus, and are ridden with DRM. Also (I haven't used iTunes in a long time, so someone correct me if I'm wrong), aren't non-iTunes plus tracks only 128Kbps AAC? 128Kbps AAC is about the same as a 192Kbps MP3.

Now, if you can seriously hear the difference, then you need to find a DAP that supports FLAC or another kind of lossless audio (Microsoft and Apple have their own lossless formats). As for the rest of us, we'd rather not deal with the hassle of having to convert/crack our music for every new player.

[nicmart]

Although I download very few songs, I switched from Apple to Amazon at the first possible moment despite being a Mac user. Not only do I detest Apple's DRM, but also the company's disregard for users who adopted the Apple Lossless format for home use. Apple only makes it possible to automatically downconvert AL files to AAC if you are connected to an iPod Shuffle. Amazon isn't exactly blame-free in the DRM department. It owns Audible.com, which has the worst DRM extant. Audible forces users to actually keep connected with the company's servers for the audiobook files to remain playable, even if you no longer have an account with them.

[Composer_1777]

Apple and its DRM can F off

[John Elberling]

sorry dude, but despite your wishful thinking iTunes is a media ecosystem while Amazon will never be more than a store (and most of the music purchased from Amazon winds up in iTunes libraries anyway, which is all Apple needs to keep selling iPods). Google would have been much smarter to partner with Rhapsody, which has a whole lot more to offer. heck, Google should just buy Rhapsody.

[phigata]

a media ecosystem duuuuuuuuuudde
far out.

[nite41]

Well, music labels aren't giving iTunes full access to drm-free songs because they are bloody SCARED! the monopoly apple itunes has, it can even force the music stores to change their own pricing! and that's why the music lables are not letting itunes got drm-free. may be, they are waiting till amazon starts to eat in to itune's share (which will be a lengthy and prolonged process)!
as for apple's drm (called FAIRPLAY), it's not that it can ONLY be played on iPods! it can be played on up to 5 different computers, 'n' number of ipods, can be burned on to a disc 7 times. so, i would like to know who the hell uses more than 5 computers for himself???? so who the hell doesn't have an ipod now (intentional sarcasm)?????? lol!!
then why are people so worried??????????

[DarkHawke]

Interesting post, Don, but did you actually READ the CNET coverage before you wrote your piece? If so, did you catch that the G1 comes with neither stereo Bluetooth or even so much as a standard headphone jack? Check it out: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10048919-1.html?tag=blogFeed That alone blows most of your theorizing out of the water. If having a recessed standard headphone jack on the iPhone was a pain in the tuckus, this is a bad joke. Now EVERYONE who wants to listen to their great DRM-free Amazon music will have to get an adapter if they want to use standard stereo headphones with the G1. So THIS is gonna be the game-changer between Amazon's MP3 downloads and iTunes? This phone starts off not being as good a music player as any Sony/Ericsson model, let alone the seamless experience that Apple brings to the table.

There are other important deficits vis a vis the Apple experience. First off, as brettpweb said above, looks matter. The iPhone is sex on a stick, the G1...not so much. I didn't see any wow, just more of the half-hearted and nowhere near as thought-out iPhone-alike garbage we've gotten since last year. The home screen looks like a typical computer desktop, a metaphor Microsoft has proven for years to be non-optimal for a smartphone interface. The touch control didn't look anywhere near as exact or swift as the iPhone. A physical keyboard is nice, but it doesn't change the overall look of the phone, which is very ordinary and been-there-done-that.

Second, we're talking about JUST this phone, not a phone, a line of music players, and a desktop store/media player/management app. Yet you seem to believe that Amazon's music service, by virtue of an application on an HTC phone powered by a Google OS, is going to take on the vertically integrated market leader and have some measure of success? Does nothing strike you as wrong with that picture? I'm no iTunes fan myself, but for most folks, having a seamless one-piece solution with which you can easily buy music, listen to it on your computer and put it on a portable device works eminently well. It was the first wholly electronic music experience for the vast majority of music buyers, and only now is there anything nearing a viable alternative to that model. Here's a clue for free: it has nothing to do with this phone! Buying music wirelessly off of your phone is a fun thing, no doubt, but it's not what most people will do, not when they've been "trained" for years to do it via their computers. It's a novelty, at least for now, which even if it substantially catches on won't eclipse the iTunes/iPod/iPhone juggernaut by itself. Oh, and by the way, Apple's been doing the wireless purchase/download thing on two different devices for more than a year now, so again, this new set-up is an also-ran.

Third, something else that's been well overstated by you and others: DRM. Sure it sucks, and in the fullness of time, the majority of the music-buying public <i>may</i> understand that. But for now, they're all listening to their DRMed music from iTunes on their iPods/iPhones and they're fat, happy and know jack from DRM. For the adventurous rebels who won't submit to the Apple way of doing things, it matters, but there are VERY few of us. If the regular folks ever move away from the iTunes ecosystem in the future, they'll then get what the rest of us have been railing about, but when the hell is THAT gonna happen? Doesn't look like Apple's going out of business any time soon, and while 'puters may yet be their bread and butter, there's a greater chance the sun won't come up in the morning than they'll stop making iPods! Thus DRM or the lack thereof is a non-issue now, and will be for the foreseeable future.

So exactly why is it that you expect me and everyone else reading to believe that this strung-out, single-buttocked phone/app combo has even the slightest chance of leveraging Amazon's MP3 store into a serious competition with iTunes? Either get real, Don, or pass that blunt over here, 'cause I wouldn't mind a hit of what you're smokin' myself! ;)

[phigata]

so defensive the iPhone people are!

[livecrunch]

I bought the G1 yesterday, I am no 4 guy that will get it and I can't wait to have it in my hands.

Here are some specs also you can see on how to pre-order and stuff

http://tinyurl.com/4zfewm

[sting7k]

I have been buying stuff from the amazon mp3 store for awhile now for many reasons. Albums are often $1-2 cheaper than itunes, they have the full albums when itunes is often missing a few songs for some reason, NO DRM on the tracks, the 256kbps tracks sound a lot better than itunes files to me, the downloader automatically adds to my itunes library, and finally NO DRM (did I mention that already?). I have an iPhone and I have never even started the itunes app on there, no reason too when I can get better DRM free tracks from else where.

[mrc77]

iTunes sucks compared to Amazon's MP3 download site. The other good thing about Amazon's site is that you can search for other products besides MP3s. The world of iTunes is very limited. Amazon's online MP3 albums are usually a little cheaper than they would be on iTunes. Also, I think the quality of Amazon's songs is better. iTunes is really going to have to step it up if they are going to keep Amazon from gaining on them. I would love to see Amazon crush iTunes. However, I would like Amazon to go after every song out there in the world, including old, rare forgotten songs and independent label song.