Comments on: Oh it's on: Amazon MP3 vs. iTunes

Amazon.com's DRM-free store is coming to T-Mobile's G1. And now that Amazon is starting to expand its presence, Don Reisinger thinks the real battle is about to begin with iTunes.

[RobinQueens]

Don, I could not agree more. Apple has received a full frontal assault! First Chrome, now G1 and Amazon MP3. There is more, but I will reserve my thoughts :)

[thabassman]

I think chrome was more for firefox and Mozilla. I mean seriously. Who uses safari over Firefox? Unless they are on a mac, and even on a mac.

G1 is garbage. It sealed its fail when it choose tmobile has a carrier.

You right about Amazon MP3 though, also best buy bought napster.

New zunes are pretty interesting, now that they cancelled the 160GB model. There is close to no reason to get an ipod nano or classic over a zune.

[livecrunch]

Guy's stop being such a iphoners. It's just a phone, better then Diamond,Instinct and other crap that came along after iPhone. And even iPhone sux at least G1 . Took Apple 3 bug releases to fix major things. Oh and not to say its "closed source :)"

OS is awesome, the more people are involved the better it is. G1 might come out this time bad, but wait till you see G2 .

TTYL.

I wrote few posts on http://www.livecrunch.com

if you are interested.

[romeyinfc]

You're right, but there's still one thing that concerns me. During the press conference it was said that there's no Desktop Sync application for the G1. I have a Windows Mobile device and use ActiveSync to transfer files/ringtones onto my phone all the time. Unless Google offers some kind of cloud-based solution (ala the G-Drive), then the songs may essentially be locked to that single device.

[dd13reis]

It's interesting that you point that out -- I noticed that as well. I'm wondering what will come of that. If Google locks it down into the G1, then all hell will break loose and I'll be the first one to go after the company for that. That would be a HUGE blunder.

-Don

[Seaspray0]

That may not be the case. The android software is based on linux which is GPL. If the device has bluetooth capability, I have confidence that you will eventually see a synch app that will work through the bluetooth (if this is even needed). Btw, I have a bluetooth phone that is not android or iphone and windows had no problems sending/receiving files to it (no application software required). I use it regularly to download the pictures from it and upload ringtones I have created... and what I have isn't even considered a smartphone! Don't have bluetooth on your desktop? I purchased a USB/bluetooth plug for $20 which works well with the phone and another bluetooth earbud I had.

[AppleSuxLeo]

It does sync with Google`s apps on "the cloud" watch the videos produced by Google.
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/09/23/video-android-walkthrough-on-t-mobile-g1

[alt117]

It interesting the G1 comes with a "USB Data Cable" What's it for if not syncing something?

And how hard has Apple fought for DRM free music? Anything more than Job's letters? iTunes DRM keeps a lot of iPod users in the fold.

[dd13reis]

That's another great question. If there's no desktop syncing app, how will that USB cable even come into play? I'm starting to wonder if there's more schemes afoot that we don't know about.

Point taken on the Apple DRM front. I do think, though, that Apple wants to get rid of DRM on iTunes and behind the scenes the company has been more proactive than we probably know. I think iTunes DRM was important when Apple built their product up, but now, it's a hindrance.

-Don

[dirty55409]

The USB Cable may be for(Among other things) 1.) Not syncing but still transfering files via external media storage 2.) Charging the phone via your computer's powered USB port. 3.) To update the phones firmware (I guess you could do that wirelessly but I don't know) Just thoughts.

[Seaspray0]

to dd13reis, yes it can be a hinderance to itunes but it's a goldmine to ipods. When you have a monopoly on the bigest music distribution source and only YOUR mp3 players will play the music from it, who will buy any other mp3 player? Apple refuses to release the DRM decoding software to any other company.

[gopnick]

iTunes is so firmly intrenched that it will be difficult to unseat Apple. This is (almost) like unseating Microsoft in the corporate world.

I am an iTunes user and an iPhone owner. I own a MacBook Pro 17" and use it in a corporate environment. However, the idea of DRM-free music is attractive. To the average Joe, though (heh) DRM isn't an issue since the "cool" factor will keep them with Apple anyway.

Android and its accompanying music services have a real change now; the threat is becoming like Linux on the desktop - a favorite of the geeky crowd. Only time will tell. Personally, I'm pulling for DRM-free music and competition in the market to bring down Apple's inflated prices.

[bigmc6000]

I wouldn't say Apple's prices are currently inflated. I mean - they've maintained the same price or years on end despite the increase in inflation. I'm happy with that...

[catch23]

Do yourself a favor and buy all your music from Amazon.
Then toss it into iTunes, or Windows Media player, or whatever you decide to use, how you decide to use it (please be legal about it though).
Everyone needs to get out from under DRM.

[dd13reis]

What a great point. Will G1 become the Linux of the cell phone world? I don't think it will just because of the sheer number of Android-based phones that will hit store shelves over the next year, but it certainly is possible. And you're right -- it will be difficult to unseat Apple, but I think the product offered by Amazon is so much better, that it could work out.

What do you think?

-Don

[chabig83]

"iTunes is a locked-down service that will only let you play your songs on Apple devices"

Will the FUD please stop! iTunes music plays on all Windows PCs, no matter the manufacturer. I won't even give the benefit of the doubt to people any more. To say otherwise is an outright lie.

[A_Native_Texan]

Yes, it might play on all PCs, but it doesnt play on all DEVICES. Ease up with your exclamations of misinformation.

[pjhenry1216]

Ok, it plays on all Windows PCs... as long as they're authorized by Apple. They only play on iTunes and even then, they need to be authorized by Apple's servers to play. Plus, with the term "devices," people generally mean cell phones, mp3 players, etc, but NOT computers.

[Lazlo666]

and I suppose all those multiple device users (Apple, Windows, Linux and all the sort-of-associated-electronics) would never ever consider using the dozen or so ways that bypass the DRM and allow him/her to copy their music wherever they like. sure.

price? hmmm, ten cents...let's see, I can buy what with that nowadays? gotta spend ten bucks at Amazon to save enough to buy a taco at the Bell (don't forget the tax). sarcasm aside, I hope Apple does lower their price and beat the living crap outta the record labels to drop the DRM. it's still a pain and pretty much worthless anyway.

oh, and did I mention (like some others have elsewhere) that the quality is lower than Apple's AAC format? guess that doesn't matter to some....

[dd13reis]

Please. I was referring to the iPhone and iPod. Obviously it plays on Windows PCs. Don't be ridiculous.

-Don

[atomicbomb156]

They mean putting it on another music devices ***. You can bring music bought on itunes to other computers but they max out at 3 times. With DRM free you can put it on any device you want no matter how many times you do it. Try to at least use you head. And iTunes doesn't work on linux. Just to let you know. Some people these days.

[ibeetle]

It is unfortunate that it really only boils down to price.

Yes, Amazon can be cheaper. Not always, but about 90% of the time they are cheaper. However the Mp3 format that Amazon uses has a noticeable reduction in quality compared to the AAC format that iTunes uses.

Buy the cheapest then ***** about poor quality. The Wal-mart way. The new American way.

[john55440]

With it's compressed, lo-fi, digital music, iTunes only offers sells poor sound quality music.

Amazon.com offers the option of music CDs, vastly superior sound quality and a convenient format, at reasonable prices.

[pjhenry1216]

While, its difficult to tell since its variable bit rate, the quality of songs from Amazon are, on average, higher than songs generally available on iTunes (ie, not iTunes Plus).

[bigmc6000]

Amazon's base encoding is better than iTunes base encoding (mp3 256 is better than AAC at 128) however, if the providers (other than indie and EMI) would allow Apple to sell DRM free stuff they'd all be in 256 AAC which *is* better than 256 mp3. It all just comes down to the content providers.

Apple was selling iPods long before iTunes was the #1 music retailer so people aren't just buying iPod because they are locked into iTunes - I think that's one of the biggest concerns I have with most all of these articles...

[dd13reis]

Good point, but most of the people downloading music won't be able to tell the difference in quality as it is. Most teenagers and 20-somethings don't even notice the degradation in quality from MP3s because they grew up with it.

-Don

[daves_done]

This is definitely great to see. One thing that I really want that I haven't seen in my frantic blog post readings on the new G1 is to see it have the ability to plug into a computer via USB (Mac, Windows or Linux) and have the device show up as a portable drive that I can just drag and drop the DRM free music I already have onto it.

[dd13reis]

Yeah, that's the big question mark right now. It better be able to transfer music and stuff. If it doesn't, we all better watch out -- it'll be ridiculous.

-Don

[jazzmandan]

Excellent article Don.

As a long time user of Palms, Blackberry and Creative (going back to the orginal Zen) I am totally sold on the iPhone + itune's ease of use (having shunned it for years). It's going to be critical for someone to address that (it's going to be difficult of Google to do this in the cloud to the scale of customer base Apple has).

Apple needs to start showing off and developing their key competitive advantage; that is the ability to have a complete lifestyle solution. I.e. iphone + itunes + apple TV/mac or pc connected to HDTV, all controlled from the iphone (the ultimate universal remote). It's very painful/time consuming to manage media outside of itunes. I tried combinations of Creative software and Windows media player but they either don't provide all the functionality or just don't sync well.

[dd13reis]

Yep, that's the problem. There's an end-to-end solution with Apple that just isn't there with the rest of the devices on the market. That's a real big issue that Microsoft has tried to solve with the Zune, but you know what? It just wasn't possible because, well, the Zune sucked.

Google and Amazon need to realize that an end-to-end solution is key.

-Don

[john55440]

Your claim that "Apple and RIM have a stranglehold on the cell phone market" is wrong.

According to Gartner, (Q2-08) Nokia has a worldwide smartphone market share of 47.5%, RIM/Blackberry has a 17.4% smartphone share, and Apple/iPhone's worldwide smartphone market share is in the Others category.

As for total cell phone sales, IDC (Q2-08) puts Nokias worldwide market share at 39.9%, and the worldwide market share for both Apple/iPhone and RIM/Blackberry is in the Others category.

Worldwide, Nokia dominates both the smartphone market and the dumphone market. Nobody else is even close. According to ICD, Nokia sold 437.1 million phones last year alone.

[dd13reis]

OK, first off, Nokia's smartphone share is barely useful to this discussion. That figure includes a slew of devices that, just because they have the "basic" functionality, they count. Wrong.

When you look at a real smartphone and the market, RIM rules the space.

-Don

[Seaspray0]

Before anyone else butts in, first look up john55440's statistics and see if he's correct. Since he has made no other remarks other than giving those statistics to prove apple and RIM do not have a stranglehold on the cell phone market, you have no reason to object UNLESS those statistics are wrong. <silence> Good job, john5540!

[Penguinisto]

In North America, RIM/Blackberry is top OS dog, followed by OSX, then Windows Mobile.

Nokia's "smartphones" are no such thing in the true definition. Even a crap Nokia 6000-series cell phone can do basic "web browsing" (hope you like text-only), can play video (well, animated gif-like files), can play music (well, if you like MIDI files a lot), and can of course receive email (T-Mobile for instance used to have it rigged to relay text messages to your phone via an email addy based on your phone number... but anything after 180 characters got cut off). Oh, and you can play games on it. All on a 200x100-some-odd pixel screen about 2" square (if you were lucky).

Trust me - that ain't a real smartphone.

/P

[A_Native_Texan]

Good article and very timely, but I wonder - why include any cell phone inclusion in a story about music downloads. Downloading music, whether it be through Amazon or iTunes is a story in and of itself. Furthermore, I never quite understood why you would buy a cell phone just because it has the automatic download capability. How hard is it to download it on your home PC or Mac and upload it to your phone if you are so inclined.

I live in NYC and most people I see are using their iPod or iPhone which has to be synced up with their music/PC anyway.

Frankly, I like Amazon's lack of a DRM noose because I want to move music from device to device as well as computer to computer. I do, however, like iTunes for my TV shows etc.

Amazon's interface is not as easy as iTunes, but anyone with a slightly technical inclination could use it with ease.

[dd13reis]

That's true -- I'm not sure how many people actually want to download music onto their cell phone...right now. But more and more people will use cell phones as a means of getting and owning content and as that happens, that's when that download capability will be important. I think it's in its infant stages, but it will mature.

-Don

[peramica]

given that android is open source, couldn't Apple offer iTunes mobile for the G1? At the very least with the iTunes Plus tracks.

[pjhenry1216]

Why would someone want that app? Would someone want to purchase music that costs more AND has to come from EMI?

[dd13reis]

Wow! Awesome point! I don't think it'll every happen, but that's a really great thought.

Column fodder, perhaps?

-Don

[Penguinisto]

You could... and you could likely use gtkpod (in reverse) as a starting point (which is also open source).

[restoration85]

To chabig83, I believe what Don is referring to is the necessity to use iTunes for Apple's DRM files.

To ibeetle, at the 256 bit rate Amazon is cheaper than iTunes. Apple charges $1.29 for DRM free mp3's at 256kbps whereas Amazon only charges $0.89 to 0.99 for the same track.

To john55440, while Symbian does dominate on the world stage, it does not fair so well in the US. The current leaders in the US smartphone market are RIM and Apple. Take a moment to walk around and see how many Curves, Pearls, and iphones you see.

[ashwinkn]

Apple got rid of the premium price a while ago.

[nite41]

restoration85! bro! wake up! $1.29 is history! which world do you live in? haha! it's $0.99 for every song now!

[pjhenry1216]

I'd like to see Amazon sell a desktop equivalent. I don't care if they just expand the mp3 downloader to include the store as well. I don't require it to be a music player and I'd like it to keep its auto-import to iTunes ability. I only shop from Amazon when I can (if its not available and I want the song enough, I have to either get the CD or go to iTunes). The interface is terrible compared to iTunes. I just want a nicer interface with some of the extras that iTunes offers. I'm stuck relying on iTunes as my main music library as I have an iPhone, but I'd like to be able to have a nicer experience with Amazon's mp3 store.

[dd13reis]

Sell a desktop experience? I'd hope it's free! I do agree that Amazon's interface isn't very good and Apple's is much better, but that can be improved. And once it's improved, you can bet that Apple will take notice.

-Don

[sebastien.kalonji]

Lies, lies, lies, ...

The songs I purchase on iTunes are DRM free as well. I can play them on any device that supports AAC. I'm not tied to Apple products like Don would like you to believe.

[dd13reis]

What a bunch of garbage. Lies? Please. You miss one point: all those devices you mention need to be able to play nice with Apple's DRM. Unless there's an Apple logo on those, I'll bet you're out of luck.

-Don

[Seaspray0]

Truth, truth, truth, ... apple refuses to release software used to decode DRM encrypted songs purchased from itunes to any other company. This means no other mp3 player other than an ipod will play them. Since itunes sells over 50% of all music distributed by all means, apple is now a monopoly. Go check it out for yourself.

[skillingssucks]

dd13reis (Don), you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, whatsoever. Sebastian is talking about the DRM free iTunes Plus music sold on iTunes...and they'll play on any device that can play AAC.

Seaspray, you're cluless, as most music available on iTunes now is DRM free.

[DrtyDogg]

As long as it's EMI or indie

[dude7895]

You do realize your an idiot, right? Most of the music on itunes is drm protected, not the other way around.

[d--keller]

Tool, tool, tool.... you're kidding right?

[cyclonus5150]

@restoration85 - the iTunes plus tracks dropped to .99 a long time ago. They were initially offered at a premium for DRM-free AAC at a 256 bitrate. AAC = higher quality with a smaller footprint.

Apple has made every effort to drop DRM but the labels have made a very public effort to counter Apple market supremacy by providing their competition with an artificial advantage: DRM-free tracks that they won't allow Apple to sell. They want Apple to adopt variable pricing for single tracks i.e. a hot track would cost upwards of 2.99 or more. Apple refuses to break from the .99 standard per track.

It's also good to point out that Apple's music store isn't a profit driver for them at all. While they love selling content, they love selling hardware even more. As long as you're using their software to manage your tunes and their hardware to play them, they're going to be happy.

G1 won't cut it as a music phone. There isn't a headphone jack and there isn't any desktop software for sync and management.

[phigata]

Sure there is. Winamp and WM11 will both allow you to sync the G1 to your PC.

[shinelikeitdoes]

Usability in the Amazon store isnt there. What no one seems to understand is that the entire Apple experience is simple and nearly seamless. Its pleasant. Not a task. As many an article has stated ..UI is the killer app. And no one else seems to get that but Apple.

[ReVeLaTeD]

"Usability in the Amazon store isnt there"

Err, what?

1. You search for a song.
2. If it has an MP3 version, you click "Download Album" or click Buy Now next to the track.
3. Song downloads using Media Downloader, but you can play it using any media player.

How is that challenging and not "simple and nearly seamless"?

Seems to me like some people are just plain lazy, or they want bells and whistles that quite frankly, Windows Media Player and Winamp both have. Playlists? WMP has that, so does Winamp. Genre? Both have that. Tagging? Both have that. There's literally....literally...nothing that iTunes offers over standard players except the brand name.

As far as the quality of music, I'm not an audiophile. The sound quality from Amazon MP3 is perfect. Anything more and the majority of listeners CANNOT tell the difference.

Amazon MP3 = what Sony Connect used to be, without the proprietary software/interface and DRM. I love it.

[dd13reis]

There is that problem. Amazon's MP3 store is, well, useless from a user experience perspective. But from a product perspective, it's tops.

-Don

[tappy727]

Amazon usability works great for me. It is simple and near seamless. I haven't tried iTunes because the DRM just turns me off.

[DrtyDogg]

"What no one seems to understand is that the entire Apple experience is simple and nearly seamless."<br><br>If nobody understands it, how good can it be?

[AppleSuxLeo]

Amazon MP3 store right from the start=pure genius. I use it anyway on my PC. Count me in. Apple loses.

[dd13reis]

Haha. Judging by your handle, I'm willing to bet you like when "Apple loses" don't you? I do agree that the Amazon MP3 store is genius, but I'm not sold on the justification that Apple will lose. I don't think Apple will ever go away in this space, it may just face more stiff competition.

-Don

[Penguinisto]

1) it comes with a USB data cable, so you don't need "sync" software - the thing behaves like a USB hard disk. Play the tunes on whatever you want.

2) there's very likely to be a headphone jack in it somewhere.

3) It's worth a look.

/P

[dd13reis]

So that's how it works? I didn't catch that part. Nice catch.

-Don

[DarkHawke]

On point 2: no, actually. No headphone jack, no stereo Bluetooth. Check it: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10048919-1.html?tag=blogFeed Yeah, right, Don. A phone that you can use to buy music wirelessly, but you CAN'T listen to your tunes like you can with ANY OTHER MUSIC-ENABLED PHONE is gonna make Amazon's MP3 service competitive with iTunes. Dream on, buddy.

[chriswininger1]

I never bought mp3's online because of DRM. It seemed pointless to spend almost as much as a CD on something that I couldn't easily transfer to other machines and burn off as I pleased. Why not just order the CD off Amazon or go to the store. Since I heard that Amazon was selling DRM free mp3s I've started purchasing through them. I will never go back to CDs again. Their service is great. I've already bought about 5 CDs off of the service since learning about it a few months ago. I usually don't buy that many CD's in a year but it's so convenient. You just click and in minutes you have your album and are free to burn it and copy it as many times as you want. Don?t waist your money with ITunes.

[dd13reis]

Wow, so you're a CD buyer? I didn't know they still existed! :-)

I do notice that at practically every store that sells CDs -- Best Buy, FYE, etc. -- no one is in the CD aisles. What gives? Are you the only person buying CDs now? Or are they all buying discs on Amazon like yourself?

-Don

[the Otter]

Sounds great, but there?s something people aren?t noticing: QUALITY. iTunes uses MP4 to Amazon?s severely outdated MP3. You know what? I actually *can* tell the difference. Try it yourself and see.

[dd13reis]

True. Some can tell a difference, but by and large, many can't. You know why? There's a whole generation of people that never grew up with lossless audio, so they just can't tell a difference. Sad but true. Let's hear it for FLAC!

-Don

[Magallanes]

Yes, mp4 is better to mp3 because 4 >3

lol.

The quality of the mp3 depend in several aspect, from the bitrate, to the encoding option and the encoding program (Lame).
A good encoded mp3 is EQUAL in quality to a aac, flac or any other overhyped "lossless" format. You can't notice the difference!. Not at least using a crappy DAC (such iphone, ipod, zen and any other portable music player) and using a regular speaker (headphone).

[Composer_1777]

Lol, how can you tell the diference using an I pod which hasen;t updated their sound quality in over 4 years... Yeah its all in your head.