Comments on: Why the Playstation 4 won't have Blu-ray

Sony hasn't made an official statement yet, but Don Reisinger believes the Playstation 4 won't have Blu-ray. Will Sony have something to say about that?

[t26l]

I see your point Don, but I too fully agree with NutMac. Sony is way too stubborn not to put Blu-ray in the PS4. I think they will put both blu-ray AND the option to download. It just makes the most $ense.

[dd13reis]

Please see my response to NutMac. I think his point is a great one.

-Don

[epross]

I think you are overlooking an important point. Blu Ray is not just for movies. As a transport mechanism, blu ray holds more than DVD and is more scratch resistant. Something that gamers would benefit from, as loading 1 blu ray disc is a lot better than loading 6 standard DVDs. Also you are assuming that HD downloads will i) be available in next 3-5 years and ii) that those same downloads will be adopted by consumers in sufficient quantities to make a game-console without a disc transport attractive to those audiences. It also does nothing to address if you want to take your console up to the cabin in the woods that doesn't have high-speed (or gasp!) any internet connectivity. Then you'd be screwed. Given what I see in the market today, providers will probably try and sell subscription services rather than titles for purchase and subscription service (depending on how its implemented) is usually more costly for people who don't consume vast quantities of content (i.e. those of us content to purchase 1-3 games per year). You might be right, but there is more to the equation that simply the availability of technology to replace it. User perception and acceptance is important. Sony may have to keep blu ray for a couple of generations if that is what the market wants.

[dd13reis]

The storage argument doesn't hold water with me. Compression techniques will get better and look at PC gaming -- that doesn't need Blu-ray to survive with bigger games.

I don't agree with that logic.

-Don

[Dleon84]

Don, your claim about the Star Wars-like future of the movie (and music for that matter) industry as a live-streaming/download medium where the future is based on digital-only formats is flawed. The reasons include (but not limited to):

1. Special features in CD's, DVD's, and Blu-ray.
2. Portability of the actual format (in a DRMed digital-only format we're not likely to share our format from one place to another unless otherwise specified by whatever licensing company).
3. You're assuming (not good) that everybody will have:
3.1. High-speed internet
3.2. An internet connection altogether
3.3. Wireless internet or properly placed modems in people's houses
3.4. Unlimited data file storage or the money to even purchase such storage devices if there's no streaming.

Fact is people need to have the option of physical formats due to the freedom the formats offer. Also, Blu-ray is catching up on the industry as it recently took in 12% of video media sold. DVD took time to catch up, as will Blu-ray. I also have a 7.1 sound system and an HDTV for which I only purchase Blu-ray's due to sound and video quality. I have over 250 movies (about 200 DVD's and about 50 BD): I highly doubt everybody will even have the space to house that amount of media in storage devices much less stream the content without options to "keep what they pay for" and special features.

Your futuristic view, while interesting, fails at serving the needs of the general consumer. As far as PS4 having BD I could only give my opinion and I think they may include BD. Pricing for BD would have decreased by then, thus allowing the PS4 to be cheaper even with BD capabilities. Beyond this, you're also missing a multi-console game which will be released on multiple DVD's on XBOX360 and only one BD for the PS3. The benefits of BD are just beginning to surface where even gamers will notice the difference.

If I were your boss, I would have fired you. Cheers!

[dd13reis]

Wow, I'm glad you're not my boss.

As for your logic: it's flawed on too many levels.

Special features is ridiculous. Have you ever seen BD-Live?

I addressed portability in the piece. Your argument doesn't hold water.

Re-read my column so you can see what I really said. I never said it would be exclusively downloads; I said DVD would be an important part of it.

DVD serves the needs of the consumer too. Don't forget about that simple fact.

-Don

[jasond22]

Who would want download to supplant a physical disc format? You want ALL your movies on ONE box...that could fail at any time and take ALL your movies with it? A box that isn't easy to take to a friend's house? And, with DRM, a box that at any time the manufacturer's might to decide to remotely disable some of your movie purchases, or prevent you from making Fair Use of the media, etc? And bandwidth & monthly cost issues will still be around for many people for some time to come. Forget it. Give me discs any day.

[peramica]

Reisinger's argument is good here, but limited. As as been stated above, Blu-Ray has a number of functions beyond gaming and media. While we may be seeing the disappearance of optical drives from many laptops, it is unlikely that desktop replacements, and desktops themselves, will loose the drives. They are too useful in so many applications. Archiving, sending large files (as serious broadband penetration is still very limited, and likely to remain so for the future) and more.

[awild1]

I agree with you Don, that Blueray will never be the format powerhouse that DVD once was. Not because Blueray is bad in any way, but because the future as you stated is streaming content from the net. However, I do believe that the physical format will never go away. And that's not to say that BR will hold that market from now on, but I think it has a decent life cycle ahead of it (I'm not saying that because I own equipment or content, b/c I don't yet). Even when our infrastructure can serve up adequate bandwidth to all corners and the minimum computer in use can handle content delivery effortlessly, I still think there will be a market for boxed physical content. I just dont think that everyone has enough trust in the tech to risk losing hundreds of dollars in movies on the hard drive. And there is something to be said about having a physical library, in all its graphically designed glory, to display in the living room.

[iDarren]

weak poorly thought out article

[dd13reis]

These are the kind of comments that are not welcome here. Either have something to say that's constructive to our discussion or get out. It's fine if you don't like my article and you disagree with what I say, but provide real facts to back up your claim, not dumb comments like this.

-Don

[rjakiel73]

Sure no physical media... The one thing you SHOULD be doing is sipping the KOOL AID. With ISPs capping their bandwith from 10 to 250 gig/mo HD downloads will never happen. Not to mention that broadband in the US has penetrated so little of mainstream America that those without would not be able to play or download games? Seriously physical media in some form whether it be Blu-Ray or some next iteration of optical medium will be included with the PS4. Not to mention that optical media has a near infinite shelf life so there is no threat of loss of data unless the disc itself is damaged. In short PS4, Xbox 720 and Nintendo ??? will have some sort of optical medium for distributing their games to the consumer just as they do now.

[al_thor]

Some times i wonder how does someone get paid to write some outlandish rubbish like don resinger. This guy has been on sony's back since the dawn of time and his latest attack on sony is just another one of those yawn inducing rubbish filled analysis. We get it. Sony is disliked.

Anyone who thinks downloads are going to takeover from optical media is frankly living in la la land. My mom cannot operate a dvd player without asking for my help and this buffon thinks people are going to jump on downloading stuff. Here in the uk, we have crappy broadband with caps all over and this buffon thinks i am going to download 50 gig games? I have a life mr don. I don't waste it sitting on my sofa waiting to download games.

Whats even more ridiculous is the assumption is going to dump their brain child for downloads. Frankly ridiculous. Blu ray has had a share of 12% of weekly home video sales just last week. In japan, blu ray recorders has overtaken it by storm. Here in the uk, it's plastered all over the walls of HMV.

Mr don. Since you get paid for writing such rubbish articles, let me give you a bit of a wakeup call. Next generation your saviour Microsoft will have its next xbox shipped with a blu ray drive. And the whole world will laugh at you when microsoft uses sony's own tech in it;'s systems. Flash drives and download crowing mob are simply deluding themselves. SOmetimes the old adage of making enough noise and it might be true doesn't always work.

[dd13reis]

Yikes. Have you really read my work? If you did, you would know that I've commended Sony on a number of counts and taken it to task on others. I'm not beating up on Sony here, I just think it needs to take Blu-ray out of its equation for the future.

I didn't just say that downloads would replace Blu-ray, DVDs will play a role too.

Oh, and my "savior Microsoft?" Please. Start reading what I actually write before you make such outlandish claims.

Your fanboy-ness is seeping through everything you write.

-Don

[Rollin4]

It seems that most people are missing the point. Downloads aren't here yet, but they're coming. The cost is staying fairly stable while connections speeds continue to increase. Really high speed connections will become common IN THE NEXT 5 - 8 YEARS. Once 95% of people who would buy a game system have fast internet, Blu-ray becomes a moot point. By that time 10 TB drives will be the norm as well.

[rjakiel73]

Rollin4 REALLY high speed connections with a CAP. Nearly all of the US ISPs as well as European ISPs have a monthly bandwith cap. Some as low as 10gig/mo and others as high as 250gig/mo but in any case you aren't downloading much of anything with either of those numbers. Let's not forget that that cap also includes ALL the other internet traffic in you house from online gaming to streaming media, etc... Oh and yes 10 TB drives just what everyone wants! A HUGE single point of failure for EVERYTHING they own on their console. Now stopping petting the author's ego and plot the destruction of some other technology. /sarcasm on I hear linux will never take off and Vista is far better than Mac OS X. /sarcasm off

[dd13reis]

Thank you!

Someone finally sees the point.

-Don

[tehooper]

Blu-Ray will die out via exactly the same mechanism that the audio CD is dying out to digital downloads. As we progress into the future, data storage is increasingly more space-effective and cost-effective. Once HD video has a universal file format comparable to the mp3 (and not mp4, m4v, mov, avi, divx, xvid, wmv, etc), it will be more and more feasible to store one's entire video collection on a hard drive (or multiple hard drives) rather than on 500 DVD's all stored on your shelf. Because really, when you think about it, DVD's (and and Blu-Rays) are just mini-hard drives.

Sure, if I want to bring a movie over to a friend's house, I'll probably transport it on DVD. But if I want to bring over an album, I don't burn a CD, I just stick it on a 4gb thumb drive that cost me just a little more than the CD itself, and fits on my keychain. Over the last weekend I actually went through my CD binders and tossed out all the CD's that contained albums burned from mp3, because they were just taking up space, and I'm never really going to use the majority of them as an audio CD again. My car plays my iPod, I can run my iPod through my home stereo. Rather than lugging around a binder, I can carry the equivalent of 1,333 CD's on an 80gb ipod. (or Zune, Sansa, what have you). Ten years ago a new desktop computer had a 40gb hard drive, and today it's not unusual (or expensive, really) to see 1TB of storage in a desktop. There's no reason that movies can't be stored in the same way, it's just a matter of scale. So a Blu-ray can hold up to 50gb of info. That's great. That really won't be that big of a deal if everyone has 100gb flash drives in 3 years.

Compound this with the fact that download speeds are increasing, especially after some companies are installing fiber-optic lines. AT&T uverse has internet over fiber-optic that is currently only restrained by the last-mile being transmitted over regular old copper wire. Once a company makes the initiative to go that last mile as an above user said that Japan has (which makes sense because they have much less square mileage to network), download speeds will compound tenfold. As speeds go up, internet companies won't need to cap bandwidth; the only real reason would be to curb piracy, but there's really no way to differentiate between illegal downloading and legal downloading from iTunes or Amazon or Netflix's streaming video service.

The revolution will come about when everyone has an integrated Home Theatre PC that serves as their home computer, video game system, cable box, DVR, and home stereo system all in one, possibly even built into it's own HDTV set. We're not far from being able to do it now, the only problem is that it's cost-prohibative, and it's cheaper to have all of these done through separate units. The PS3 and XBox360 are both great strides towards unifying all that, and I think the PS4 / Xbox 720 or whatever generation will be the last step before a 100% downloadable system is in place.

The technology is not what's holding us back, it's coprights and licensing, and DRM restrictions, because nobody wants to give up their proprietary systems and cooperate with their competiting conglomerates.

As for the people who don't have high speed internet, or internet at all..... there's always going to be people who choose to go without. There's people who don't have high speed internet or cable tv right now and do just fine. There's people who don't have a next-gen gaming system, a computer, DVD player, or a TV. But still... if you're reading this, chances are you're gonna want as much technology as you can get your hands on.

[dd13reis]

Wow. Great comment -- the best I've seen on here in a while.

Thank you very much for it. It's not only insightful, but it adds quite a bit to the discussion.

Please come back to other columns, I'd love to hear more!

-Don

For HD downloads to be more prevalent, every single household would have a broadband connection. There needs to be more capacity in the data pipes so that people can stream and download HD content. The current broadband system for home users is inadequate for HD content to be streamed.

Don't forget, Blu-ray technology has been the next level of DVDs for storage. The current DVD (read by a DVD-player's/drive's red laser diode) is basically at its maximum limit; despite other companies research in prolonging DVDs' shelf life.

What about people who have downloaded HD content? Where are they going to keep it in case there is some malfunction such that all of their HD content is lost? There is a tendency by people to have some physical permanent storage where they can keep their HD content. Blu-ray technology fits into that situation.

Video game consoles are not entertainment devices?! Come on!!! They are technically lumped as one - entertainment device.

[rdclark2]

First, your dramatic pronouncement says "It is Blu-ray drive." C'mon, Don, if you're going to pretend to be a professional writer, why not learn how to use (and when not to use) apostrophes?

Second, your whole premise is silly. Will there even be a "PlayStation 4?" How do we know that electronically distributed content won't displace physical media in gaming as well? You're building a premise based on a string of unfounded assumptions.

If Blu-ray turns out to be transitory, so what? It will serve its purpose today and for as long as it's needed, just as every other format has.

And you've missed at least one important point: Blu-Ray (like Laserdisc before it) serves a high-end market not content with the technical and aesthetic compromises of mass-market formats. HD content via streaming, or even satellite and cable, is severely bandwidth-limited, compressed and full of visible artifacts and unpredictable picture quality. Movies made in cinematic aspect ratios are typically cropped, and the audio is limited to the lossy DD5.1 codec introduced more than 20 years ago.

So perhaps Sony's next-generation game console (if and when there is one) won't include a BD player, but what will kill the need for BD itself will not be electronic distribution, but the introduction of an even better high-end format that will appeal first to purists. Today's high end points the way to tomorrow's mass market.

Sony's inclusion of a BD player in the PS3 was a market anomaly, like putting a Laserdisc player in a Colecovision would have been. By doing this, Sony raised the profile of BD very quickly, making it a target for commentary by people like you. It was a bold move, an attempt to democratize the high end that has met with mixed success. That's not failure, though, and it still remains to be seen what "killer apps" like Iron Man and The Dark Knight will do to spur adoption of the format.

So here's my prediction: It's not packaged HD media that's threatened by electronic distribution. It's standard DVD that will erode as more and more people use VOD and other streaming formats to watch movies. DVD will continue to own the "TV seasons in a box" market as well as the bargain basement. And BD will take the slice that has always been willing to pay extra for special editions, director's cuts, and other high-end packages.

[staticks]

OH MY GAWD. Is he really suggesting that Sony should DOWNGRADE their videogame medium/format, from Blu-Ray to DVD? In the next generation of consoles and the PS4, where space constraints will be even TIGHTER, by far (and in which Microsoft will DEFINITELY, ABSOLUTELY abandon DVD for some form of Blu-Ray format)?

Let's face facts here: Developers are already gasping desperately for air with the limited XB360 with its tiny DVD footprint. GTA IV is proof of this, and developers such as Kojima and id Software have echoed this sentiment. Developers are already desperate for more space than a DVD on the XB360... and the need for more space will only be AMPLIFIED in the next generation of consoles, when graphical fidelity and videogame production budgets reaches unbelievable new heights.

Please, for your own sake, Mr. Reisinger, just be quiet. For your own sake, and to not make further a fool out of yourself, you need to zip your mouth about things that you are just absolutely clueless about (i.e., anything related to the videogame industry).

[BIGELLOW]

Does CNET pick their bloggers from a Cracker Jack box? Did you know that the PS3 plays CDs even though most people use mp3s nowadays? It doesn't cost them much extra to include the functionality, so it only makes sense. Blu-ray was expensive at first, yes, but as it has been mass produced, it is getting cheaper and cheaper. By the time the PS4 comes out, they are likely to include Blu-ray just because it is a cheap and easy feature to add. (it will also probably still support CDs.)

You also seem to be under this impression that there aren't new people dying every day and aren't new people being born every day. If so, maybe you should read up about procreation. Let's say there is a 13 -year-old that does not have a DVD collection (or a collection of any movies, for that matter.) This is not uncommon. Most kids will want to build their game library than their DVD library... after all, they can always just watch mom and dad's DVDs or rent something from Blockbuster. By the time they turn 17 or 18 and have a paying job and actually decide to start building a video collection, Blu-rays are going to be fairly cheap. Digital downloads are a great concept, but are quite a ways off from being truly adopted by the masses. Which service should you buy your movies from? If you pick one service, and they vanish, is your movie collection gone? Why can't you transfer your Amazon purchases to your iTunes account? Nobody plays nice with each other. So, the only safe way to build a movie collection that isn't locked into a particular provider, a particular piece of hardware, or a particular set of rules (if you delete it from the hard drive, can you download it again? not always)... is to buy it in physical media. Sure, you could get it on DVD... but why? By that time, DVDs will be old-school. You might as well buy your music on vinyl records.

So, the reality is, Blu-ray is here to stay. Keep sticking to your DVDs and vinyl records and be laughed at by the next generation. Once Blu-ray has been around about as long as DVDs, by THEN digital downloads will have matured enough... with standard formats that can be transferred between any and all providers... with no restrictions and true ownership... which works on any piece of hardware made by any manufacturer... that it will finally replace Blu-ray as Blu-ray is replacing DVD.

[Wolf26pack]

I have to agree with all those that think that Blu-ray will continue to live a long life. I am one of the many who don't like digital downloads. I think they are great for a rental but as a means to buy a movie or a game I really don't like it at all. I want to have my content on physical media. Ya I could always just back-up my purchases onto a BD-R or DVD-R or RW but of course that would only be for us that are tech savy enough to know how to burn a disc. Well what about Hardrives? Hell No!!! you never know when it will fail and if you have all your movies in one place you will lose all of them. All your Hard Earned Cash down the drain.

If it ever comes down to it where only Downloads are available I will just not purchase there content anymore. Unless they keep detailed receipts of what I downloaded and I would be allowed to download it at anytime after for as long as I wanted to. Personally though I don't think that will ever happen with all the DRM Schemes the content providers put out there to protect themselves from pirates. I also think it would be a good idea if we were able to then take that content to any of our registered devices weather that be ipod's,iphones,Zunes,PSP's,Apple TV, PC's &,Mac laptops etc etc etc... Whatever you have in your house, but I bet that would be to much work for the content providers to try to keep track of so it probably won't happen.

In the End I will stick with Blu-ray & All Physical Media.

[Riquez-001]

While I agree that Hard disc installation of games will become more common, I have some reservations about the download titles becoming the norm.

As the years go by we have seen games become more & more detailed, MGS4 for example only just fits on blu-ray in one language. Imagine having to download a 40Gig game - even with the fastest connection it would take days
For one, there are very few countries that have the fibre infrastructure to make large downloads like this possible. The US, UK & most of Europe are still 10 years away from providing this level.
... & by that time you can probably expect some games to be edging towards the 400GB mark.

So yes, download games will become more popular, but we will still need a physical game disc of some kind for titles with detailed content.

As for whether Sony will include blu-ray games in PS4?
Well, PS1 was CD, PS2 was DVD, PS3 is bluray - so the trend says no.

But think for a moment.
Each of the disc player generations is capable of playing the previous media - with a bluray player you can still play dvd & cd content.
The format that the game itself is delivered on is irrelevant.
Say the PS4 has a "CoolAid Player" for games & this new Sony format disc holds 1TB. You can only use CoolAid discs for PS4 games, it doesnt matter because you can only play PS4 games on a PS4.
Of course, the CoolAid Player in the PS4 can still play CD, DVD & Bluray movies, music, data etc.

[Lwestlie]

Your such a fanboy Don, right something intelligent instead of something to get people to click on your stories. You may be making yourself popular in the short run. But your killing your credibility by making such rash and illogical statements. Go right for a blog that's not focused on tech enthusiasts who actually know more about what your talking about then you do.

[elguerojose]

Jeeze-Louise, the content on Cnet keeps going downhill, with idiots like this dude. He seems to be making it his regular gig now to do the whole "PS3 sux, 360 rulez!" schtick.

It wouldn't be so bad if at least there was a cogent argument with some internal logic, but...*yawn*.

[Captain-Atari]

This guy has valid point. The Audience interested in HD movies is very small. Upscaling DVD players are the wave of the immediate future. That and cheap movies on DVD may make Blu-ray adoption so slow that Sony may not be able to afford to keep paying studios to produce content on BluRay. Without Sony 's Kick backs the Studios may release less Bluray content or stop day date releases with standard DVD. This could happen because the Movie Studios really don't care. They want to sell movies @ a $30 price point and if Blu-ray does that for them fine. If it doesn't they will just move on to something else. The real demand for a HD home movie format won't be there until 55%-%60 of American homes have a HD TV and care about the difference. In as much as the addition of the BD drive drove up cost of the PS3 and made a very Developer unfriendly Game Console why would Sony do that again especially if after 5yrs of Blu-ray their isn't significant demand. Frankly the Playstation Brand can't afford another PS3 like product.